Some kitchen questions.
 

My kitchen is in need of a bit of a refresh. Not a total re-fit, though.

I built it all myself when money was tight. And ready made units cost more
(pro rata) than today.

All the floor units are basically one, made from approx 30mm square
section timber with mortice and tenon joints. 'Legs' which run from floor
to worktop one piece and a door's width apart. The whole lot firmly fixed
to brick walls. Tops are blockboard and tiled.

Most of the timber came for free as scrap lengths from the company I
worked for.

Doors and drawer fronts were bought ready made - and have been changed
recently, so still OK.

All the carcasing? is immensely strong and rigid compared to the usual
chipboard, and I don't intend changing it.

But I'd like new worktops. Possibly something like Corian? I realise this
is likely a totally pro job. Is it strong enough to sit on top of the
carcasing or does it need additional support like ply or whatever under
it? And what would be a very rough cost for about 9 metres total (three
walls with a peninsula unit, so 3 mitre or whatever joins. And a cutout
for a sink and hob. A rough guess would be fine, as I've zero idea of the
cost.

Other thing is the cooker hood which is ancient. It extracts to the
outside via a vent behind it. Still works fine - just old looking. Most of
the 'pretty' ones I see now seem to have a chimney. Can those be vented
anywhere up that chimney - or only at the top? I don't mind moving the
hole in the outside wall if needed. But the closer it is to the hood
itself the better.

Last thing. The entire kitchen is tiled, and I don't want to change them.
Obviously some will need replacing where the new hood goes in, and round
the new worktops. I do have some spares - but will have lots from the old
worktops. However I used some type of semi-flexible waterproof mortar bed
to stick them to the blockboard, which has survived very well indeed. I
think the small (2x2") very strong tiles will come off the wood intact -
but how about removing the mortar from them?

--
*Money isn‘t everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 13/02/2020 15:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
very strong tiles will come off the wood intact -
but how about removing the mortar from them?

It may depend on the type of mortar used, when I moved a few things
around in my kitchen a few of the tiles I wanted to reuse I got off in 1
piece and then soaked overnight in a bucket of water and the `mortar`
scraped off easily enough.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 13/02/2020 15:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Last thing. The entire kitchen is tiled, and I don't want to change them.
Obviously some will need replacing where the new hood goes in, and round
the new worktops. I do have some spares - but will have lots from the old
worktops. However I used some type of semi-flexible waterproof mortar bed
to stick them to the blockboard, which has survived very well indeed. I
think the small (2x2") very strong tiles will come off the wood intact -
but how about removing the mortar from them?


I can't help you with your other questions, but perhaps I can about the
tiles, as we have recently replaced a couple of worktops.

First, we got the old worktops out without breaking any of the existing
tiles. Quite easy, with care. We just unscrewed them and scraped out
any mastic/grout joining them to the tiles.

Second, you might think it's a great idea to slide the new worktop in
under the old tiles. In practice, it's even better to have a thicker
worktop that butts up against the face of the tiles. If you are going
for Corian, get them to incorporate a 5cms upstand at the back, and the
whole join is then completely waterproof, no matter what.

3. If the tile cement is waterproof, you can't get it off. Well, I
haven't succeeded, anyway, even with weeks of soaking.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 13/02/2020 15:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

But I'd like new worktops. Possibly something like Corian? I realise this
is likely a totally pro job. Is it strong enough to sit on top of the
carcasing or does it need additional support like ply or whatever under
it? And what would be a very rough cost for about 9 metres total (three
walls with a peninsula unit, so 3 mitre or whatever joins. And a cutout
for a sink and hob. A rough guess would be fine, as I've zero idea of the
cost.

For worktops, perhaps take a look at Maia
http://www.maiaworksurfaces.co.uk/ As far as I remember it is available
in lengths so unless you want anything complicated could be DIY'd. A
basic masons mitre should be doable with a suitable router.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 13/02/2020 15:38, ss wrote:
On 13/02/2020 15:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
very strong tiles will come off the wood intact -
but how about removing the mortar from them?

It may depend on the type of mortar used, when I moved a few things
around in my kitchen a few of the tiles I wanted to reuse I got off in 1
piece and then soaked overnight in a bucket of water and the `mortar`
scraped off easily enough.

if it's cement based soking in HCl works eventually


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 13/02/2020 17:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/02/2020 15:38, ss wrote:
On 13/02/2020 15:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
very strong tiles will come off the wood intact -
but how about removing the mortar from them?

It may depend on the type of mortar used, when I moved a few things
around in my kitchen a few of the tiles I wanted to reuse I got off in
1 piece and then soaked overnight in a bucket of water and the
`mortar` scraped off easily enough.

if it's cement based soking in HClÂ* works eventually




Is that brick acid?

Be interesting to see what it does to tiles. HCl is stored in glass, and
the glaze on tiles is effectively glass, so that sounds promising. But
any defects in the glaze could let the acid attack the colour
underneath, and of course the baked clay is porous.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On Thursday, 13 February 2020 15:32:30 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
My kitchen is in need of a bit of a refresh. Not a total re-fit, though.

I built it all myself when money was tight. And ready made units cost more
(pro rata) than today.

All the floor units are basically one, made from approx 30mm square
section timber with mortice and tenon joints. 'Legs' which run from floor
to worktop one piece and a door's width apart. The whole lot firmly fixed
to brick walls. Tops are blockboard and tiled.

Most of the timber came for free as scrap lengths from the company I
worked for.

Doors and drawer fronts were bought ready made - and have been changed
recently, so still OK.

All the carcasing? is immensely strong and rigid compared to the usual
chipboard, and I don't intend changing it.

But I'd like new worktops. Possibly something like Corian? I realise this
is likely a totally pro job. Is it strong enough to sit on top of the
carcasing or does it need additional support like ply or whatever under
it? And what would be a very rough cost for about 9 metres total (three
walls with a peninsula unit, so 3 mitre or whatever joins. And a cutout
for a sink and hob. A rough guess would be fine, as I've zero idea of the
cost.

Other thing is the cooker hood which is ancient. It extracts to the
outside via a vent behind it. Still works fine - just old looking. Most of
the 'pretty' ones I see now seem to have a chimney. Can those be vented
anywhere up that chimney - or only at the top? I don't mind moving the
hole in the outside wall if needed. But the closer it is to the hood
itself the better.

Last thing. The entire kitchen is tiled, and I don't want to change them.
Obviously some will need replacing where the new hood goes in, and round
the new worktops. I do have some spares - but will have lots from the old
worktops. However I used some type of semi-flexible waterproof mortar bed
to stick them to the blockboard, which has survived very well indeed. I
think the small (2x2") very strong tiles will come off the wood intact -
but how about removing the mortar from them?

I've had waterproof stuff soften mostly from a night spent under water - it just didn't soften as much as cheaper stuff.


NT

Some kitchen questions.
 

On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 15:32:15 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

But I'd like new worktops. Possibly something like Corian? I realise
this is likely a totally pro job. Is it strong enough to sit on top of
the carcasing or does it need additional support like ply or whatever
under it?

Worktops sit on the top of modern units, which are essentially just
open topped boxes, without any other support. A double width unit
probably has a bar across the midlle but that's more of a brace than
a worktop support.

Most of the 'pretty' ones I see now seem to have a chimney. Can those be
vented anywhere up that chimney - or only at the top?

I believe the chimney is just trim to hide bog standard vent tubing.

... but how about removing the mortar from them?

If it's a cement based tile adhesive you might have to resort to some
form of acidic descaler working up to brick acid. Try an overnight
soak, possibly with a bit of detergent as wetting agent.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On Thursday, 13 February 2020 15:32:30 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

but how about removing the mortar from them?

The last time I removed tile adhesive from bathromm tiles to reuse them, I was advised to scape it off under *hot* water. Surprsingly, this worked.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
Other thing is the cooker hood which is ancient. It extracts to the
outside via a vent behind it. Still works fine - just old looking. Most of
the 'pretty' ones I see now seem to have a chimney. Can those be vented
anywhere up that chimney - or only at the top? I don't mind moving the
hole in the outside wall if needed. But the closer it is to the hood
itself the better.
Don't think so. The vent is immediately behind the extractor fan. The
"chimney" is false.
--
bert

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
GB wrote:
if it's cement based soking in HCl works eventually




Is that brick acid?

Be interesting to see what it does to tiles. HCl is stored in glass, and
the glaze on tiles is effectively glass, so that sounds promising. But
any defects in the glaze could let the acid attack the colour
underneath, and of course the baked clay is porous.

I was wondering if that was the answer. The tiles are extremely strong -
can be used on a floor. So I'd guess porcelain. The adhesive is definitely
a waterproof mortar based one.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
But I'd like new worktops. Possibly something like Corian? I realise
this is likely a totally pro job. Is it strong enough to sit on top of
the carcasing or does it need additional support like ply or whatever
under it?

Worktops sit on the top of modern units, which are essentially just
open topped boxes, without any other support. A double width unit
probably has a bar across the midlle but that's more of a brace than
a worktop support.

It's what I thought. In which case mine are well up to the job.

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 14/02/2020 11:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
if it's cement based soking in HCl works eventually




Is that brick acid?

Be interesting to see what it does to tiles. HCl is stored in glass, and
the glaze on tiles is effectively glass, so that sounds promising. But
any defects in the glaze could let the acid attack the colour
underneath, and of course the baked clay is porous.

I was wondering if that was the answer. The tiles are extremely strong -
can be used on a floor. So I'd guess porcelain. The adhesive is definitely
a waterproof mortar based one.


I still think you may be over-worrying about the need to reclaim these
tiles.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
if it's cement based soking in HCl works eventually




Is that brick acid?

Be interesting to see what it does to tiles. HCl is stored in glass, and
the glaze on tiles is effectively glass, so that sounds promising. But
any defects in the glaze could let the acid attack the colour
underneath, and of course the baked clay is porous.

I was wondering if that was the answer. The tiles are extremely strong -
can be used on a floor. So I'd guess porcelain. The adhesive is definitely
a waterproof mortar based one.


I still think you may be over-worrying about the need to reclaim these
tiles.

It would depend on the thickness of the new worktops. At the moment the
existing tiles start with full ones where the current worktop meets the
wall. If it is the same thickness fine. If thinner, I may have to add
some. If thicker, easy to remove the bottom row of tiles and trim them -
as they're held to the wall with ordinary tile adhesive.

But I expect I'll have to make good round the new cooker hood. The old is
mounted directly to the wall and tiled round.

--
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
Other thing is the cooker hood which is ancient. It extracts to the
outside via a vent behind it. Still works fine - just old looking. Most of
the 'pretty' ones I see now seem to have a chimney. Can those be vented
anywhere up that chimney - or only at the top? I don't mind moving the
hole in the outside wall if needed. But the closer it is to the hood
itself the better.
Don't think so. The vent is immediately behind the extractor fan. The
"chimney" is false.

I thought the chimney type gave you the option to vent through the
ceiling? If it could be vented directly behind so much the better.
Although sods law dictates the vent won't be in the same place as this one
- over to one side. But I don't mind a bit of brickwork if needed anyway,
as it's easy to get at.

--
*The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 14/02/2020 15:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
On 14/02/2020 11:17, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
if it's cement based soking in HCl works eventually




Is that brick acid?

Be interesting to see what it does to tiles. HCl is stored in glass, and
the glaze on tiles is effectively glass, so that sounds promising. But
any defects in the glaze could let the acid attack the colour
underneath, and of course the baked clay is porous.

I was wondering if that was the answer. The tiles are extremely strong -
can be used on a floor. So I'd guess porcelain. The adhesive is definitely
a waterproof mortar based one.


I still think you may be over-worrying about the need to reclaim these
tiles.

It would depend on the thickness of the new worktops. At the moment the
existing tiles start with full ones where the current worktop meets the
wall. If it is the same thickness fine. If thinner, I may have to add
some. If thicker, easy to remove the bottom row of tiles and trim them -
as they're held to the wall with ordinary tile adhesive.

My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Generally, modern worktops tend to be 38mm. You can get thinner, but
they don't look as good. The current blockboard + tiles worktop is
surely quite a bit thinner? More like 25mm, perhaps? Hence, to save a
hell of a lot of messing about, I suggest that the new worktop is butted
up against the face of the tiles.


But I expect I'll have to make good round the new cooker hood. The old is
mounted directly to the wall and tiled round.


You said you had a few spare tiles?

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
GB wrote:
It would depend on the thickness of the new worktops. At the moment the
existing tiles start with full ones where the current worktop meets the
wall. If it is the same thickness fine. If thinner, I may have to add
some. If thicker, easy to remove the bottom row of tiles and trim them -
as they're held to the wall with ordinary tile adhesive.

My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
GB wrote:
It would depend on the thickness of the new worktops. At the moment the
existing tiles start with full ones where the current worktop meets the
wall. If it is the same thickness fine. If thinner, I may have to add
some. If thicker, easy to remove the bottom row of tiles and trim them -
as they're held to the wall with ordinary tile adhesive.

My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

No expense spared on my wife's new kitchen (she paid for it:-).

The Corian work top wraps up the wall and forms a window sill.

Incredibly neat workmanship.

She specified a Quooker without realising this meant she could not have
a sink entirely of Corian (heat). The fitter cut out the sink bottom and
put in a stainless steel base.

Part of the cost is because they do a *measure up visit* and create
hardboard templates.


--
Tim Lamb

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 15/02/2020 11:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
It would depend on the thickness of the new worktops. At the moment the
existing tiles start with full ones where the current worktop meets the
wall. If it is the same thickness fine. If thinner, I may have to add
some. If thicker, easy to remove the bottom row of tiles and trim them -
as they're held to the wall with ordinary tile adhesive.

My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.


You can butt up against the face of the tiles without an upstand.

A friend has recently redone their kitchen. White glossy units, and
white glossy walls (not tiles, some sort of sheet material). Black
Corian worktop with an upstand. It looks *extremely* smart - IMHO of course.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

No expense spared on my wife's new kitchen (she paid for it:-).

The Corian work top wraps up the wall and forms a window sill.

Incredibly neat workmanship.

An upstand that forms part of the corian would be fine. It's an added type
I don't like.

--
*Frustration is trying to find your glasses without your glasses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

No expense spared on my wife's new kitchen (she paid for it:-).

The Corian work top wraps up the wall and forms a window sill.

Incredibly neat workmanship.

An upstand that forms part of the corian would be fine. It's an added type
I don't like.

25 miles up the road! Come and see it or I could post a photo.


--
Tim Lamb

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

No expense spared on my wife's new kitchen (she paid for it:-).

The Corian work top wraps up the wall and forms a window sill.

Incredibly neat workmanship.

An upstand that forms part of the corian would be fine. It's an added
type I don't like.

25 miles up the road! Come and see it or I could post a photo.

Can anyone give a very rough idea of costs? Say per metre of a standard
width worktop? Just that I really have no idea at all, and Google doesn't
help.

A couple of grand might be OK. 10 wouldn't. ;-)


--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Some kitchen questions.
 

On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 13:58:10 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new
Corian worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up
against the face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it
provides a 100% waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

No expense spared on my wife's new kitchen (she paid for it:-).

The Corian work top wraps up the wall and forms a window sill.

Incredibly neat workmanship.

An upstand that forms part of the corian would be fine. It's an added
type I don't like.

25 miles up the road! Come and see it or I could post a photo.

Can anyone give a very rough idea of costs? Say per metre of a standard
width worktop? Just that I really have no idea at all, and Google
doesn't help.

A couple of grand might be OK. 10 wouldn't. ;-)


According to Worktops.org "Corian is priced from £120 to £170 in a number
of limited styles. The styles stocked are sourced from ex-stock
inventories of lines which are no longer part of the Corian range."

Some kitchen questions.
 

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
My suggestion is to put a small upstand at the back of the new Corian
worktop (or whatever you decide to get). Then butt that up against the
face of the tiles. It looks very effective, and it provides a 100%
waterproof joint.

Simply don't like added on upstands. Look a bodge to me.

No expense spared on my wife's new kitchen (she paid for it:-).

The Corian work top wraps up the wall and forms a window sill.

Incredibly neat workmanship.

An upstand that forms part of the corian would be fine. It's an added
type I don't like.

25 miles up the road! Come and see it or I could post a photo.

Can anyone give a very rough idea of costs? Say per metre of a standard
width worktop? Just that I really have no idea at all, and Google doesn't
help.

A couple of grand might be OK. 10 wouldn't. ;-)

Much head scratching.... she doesn't really know!

John Lewis!! Initial visit to measure up. Follow up visit to install.
Payment of 8k somewhere about the time.

This was sink/drainer, 4m work top/upstand and 2 wrap around window
sills. 1.5m promontory and a large island unit.


--
Tim Lamb

Some kitchen questions.
 

On 16/02/2020 13:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Can anyone give a very rough idea of costs? Say per metre of a standard
width worktop? Just that I really have no idea at all, and Google doesn't
help.

A couple of grand might be OK. 10 wouldn't. ;-)



You can get a rough idea he
https://ukworktopsdirect.co.uk/workt...ce-calculator/

Some kitchen questions.
 

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
Can anyone give a very rough idea of costs? Say per metre of a standard
width worktop? Just that I really have no idea at all, and Google doesn't
help.

A couple of grand might be OK. 10 wouldn't. ;-)

Much head scratching.... she doesn't really know!

A bit more Googling asking a different question found a site that could
give a near enough price based on a sketch.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.