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#1
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Fortic tank leak
One thing leads to another.
The management company of our blocks of flats sent around some documents which included the warning that stagnant water in pipes above a certain temperature may harbour dangerous bacteria, namely Legionella. Since I got a dose of Legionella a few years back in Portugal my wife freaked. We don't use this hot water system as the shower is an electric power shower. So, I turned off the main feed to the fortic tank and drained down the via the hot taps in kitchen and bathroom. This morning there is much water in the airing cupboard and a steady drip coming from the bottom of the fortic tank. Is a drain down of the tank itself using the drain cock on the side the probable best solution? -- Mike |
#2
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Fortic tank leak
Mike Halmarack wrote:
One thing leads to another. The management company of our blocks of flats sent around some documents which included the warning that stagnant water in pipes above a certain temperature may harbour dangerous bacteria, namely Legionella. Since I got a dose of Legionella a few years back in Portugal my wife freaked. We don't use this hot water system as the shower is an electric power shower. So, I turned off the main feed to the fortic tank and drained down the via the hot taps in kitchen and bathroom. This morning there is much water in the airing cupboard and a steady drip coming from the bottom of the fortic tank. Is a drain down of the tank itself using the drain cock on the side the probable best solution? I can't answer the question, but the Legionella problem is *prevented* by keeping stored water *above* 60 deg C, and regularly running water at this temperature through the pipes. Provided your hot water system runs well above 60 deg C regularly it is not a significant risk. -- Roger Hayter |
#3
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Fortic tank leak
Mike Halmarack wrote:
One thing leads to another. The management company of our blocks of flats sent around some documents which included the warning that stagnant water in pipes above a certain temperature may harbour dangerous bacteria, namely Legionella. Since I got a dose of Legionella a few years back in Portugal my wife freaked. We don't use this hot water system as the shower is an electric power shower. So, I turned off the main feed to the fortic tank and drained down the via the hot taps in kitchen and bathroom. This morning there is much water in the airing cupboard and a steady drip coming from the bottom of the fortic tank. Is a drain down of the tank itself using the drain cock on the side the probable best solution? Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Where is this water in your airing cupboard? Has your tank just sprung a leak? If you want to drain a HW tank you cant do it via the hot taps as HW is drawn off from the top of the tank. If you have a drain cock at the bottom youre sorted, if not a length of hosepipe inserted through the HW outlet down to the bottom of the tank will allow you to syphon it out. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#4
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Fortic tank leak
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote: Mike Halmarack wrote: One thing leads to another. The management company of our blocks of flats sent around some documents which included the warning that stagnant water in pipes above a certain temperature may harbour dangerous bacteria, namely Legionella. Since I got a dose of Legionella a few years back in Portugal my wife freaked. We don't use this hot water system as the shower is an electric power shower. So, I turned off the main feed to the fortic tank and drained down the via the hot taps in kitchen and bathroom. This morning there is much water in the airing cupboard and a steady drip coming from the bottom of the fortic tank. Is a drain down of the tank itself using the drain cock on the side the probable best solution? I can't answer the question, but the Legionella problem is *prevented* by keeping stored water *above* 60 deg C, and regularly running water at this temperature through the pipes. Provided your hot water system runs well above 60 deg C regularly it is not a significant risk. provided you run your shower every day. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
#6
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Fortic tank leak
On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote:
Mike Halmarack wrote: One thing leads to another. The management company of our blocks of flats sent around some documents which included the warning that stagnant water in pipes above a certain temperature may harbour dangerous bacteria, namely Legionella. Since I got a dose of Legionella a few years back in Portugal my wife freaked. We don't use this hot water system as the shower is an electric power shower. So, I turned off the main feed to the fortic tank and drained down the via the hot taps in kitchen and bathroom. This morning there is much water in the airing cupboard and a steady drip coming from the bottom of the fortic tank. Is a drain down of the tank itself using the drain cock on the side the probable best solution? Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Where is this water in your airing cupboard? Has your tank just sprung a leak? If you want to drain a HW tank you can’t do it via the hot taps as HW is drawn off from the top of the tank. If you have a drain cock at the bottom you’re sorted, if not a length of hosepipe inserted through the HW outlet down to the bottom of the tank will allow you to syphon it out. Tim Used this method but nothing coming out of the drain cock and this (gravity pressure?)tank is still full. I explained the busy role of the kettle in an earlier post. -- Mike |
#7
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Fortic tank leak
On Thursday, 13 February 2020 12:31:10 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote:
the fortic tank is still full of water and opening the drain cock from low down on the storage tank produces not a trickle ??? Mine did that. There was a piece of insulation or other gunk blocking the outlet. Inserting a pokey thing caused the entire contents of the tank to discharge. Owain |
#8
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Fortic tank leak
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#9
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Fortic tank leak
On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote:
... Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Kettle. No Legionella sufferers here, so far. It's that the management company sent a document warning of the dangers and stating that it was the leaseholder's responsibility to ensure that water in the pipes was above 60C. -- Mike |
#11
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Fortic tank leak
"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
... On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 04:43:36 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Thursday, 13 February 2020 12:31:10 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: the fortic tank is still full of water and opening the drain cock from low down on the storage tank produces not a trickle ??? Mine did that. There was a piece of insulation or other gunk blocking the outlet. Inserting a pokey thing caused the entire contents of the tank to discharge. Owain Pokey thing gone to top of list. When you use the pokey thing, and assuming it does its job, have a *large* vessel into which the water can safely drain during the time (which will seem like several centuries!) before you can screw the drain cock closed. And then attach your hosepipe and drain it into the bath / kitchen sink / flower beds. Hope you didn't have to manhandle the *full* cylinder through 90 degrees to access the drain cock (it was round the *back* - duh!). When the immersion heater element of mine broke and needed replacing, I had to empty the cylinder to remove the horizontal element near the bottom of the tank. And the drain was on the back so after unscrewing the cold inlet and the hot outlet, I had to "walk" the cylinder round on the baulks of wood that it was resting on. Luckily I got a lot more than a trickle from the cock (oooh, Matronnnnnnnn!), so no pokey thing was needed ;-) I had to Google what a fortic tank was. I've only seen one before and that was in my first house. For some reason the builders chose not to put a header tank in the loft or to make it a mains-fed cylinder. Cost, I suppose. |
#12
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Fortic tank leak
On Thursday, 13 February 2020 12:45:39 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote:
There was a piece of insulation or other gunk blocking the outlet. Pokey thing gone to top of list. This was in the actual cylinder, not any pipe/valve. We'd already drained what we could from the pipe and /thought/ the cyl was completely empty and had started walking it out. Two people + two buckets required. Owain |
#13
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Fortic tank leak
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 16:24:47 -0000, "NY" wrote:
"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 04:43:36 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Thursday, 13 February 2020 12:31:10 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: the fortic tank is still full of water and opening the drain cock from low down on the storage tank produces not a trickle ??? Mine did that. There was a piece of insulation or other gunk blocking the outlet. Inserting a pokey thing caused the entire contents of the tank to discharge. Owain Pokey thing gone to top of list. When you use the pokey thing, and assuming it does its job, have a *large* vessel into which the water can safely drain during the time (which will seem like several centuries!) before you can screw the drain cock closed. And then attach your hosepipe and drain it into the bath / kitchen sink / flower beds. Hope you didn't have to manhandle the *full* cylinder through 90 degrees to access the drain cock (it was round the *back* - duh!). When the immersion heater element of mine broke and needed replacing, I had to empty the cylinder to remove the horizontal element near the bottom of the tank. And the drain was on the back so after unscrewing the cold inlet and the hot outlet, I had to "walk" the cylinder round on the baulks of wood that it was resting on. Luckily I got a lot more than a trickle from the cock (oooh, Matronnnnnnnn!), so no pokey thing was needed ;-) Fortunately the company sent a man around. I had to Google what a fortic tank was. I've only seen one before and that was in my first house. For some reason the builders chose not to put a header tank in the loft or to make it a mains-fed cylinder. Cost, I suppose. No loft here, sad to say. -- Mike |
#14
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Fortic tank leak
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#15
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Fortic tank leak
In article ,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\) wrote: No most people get it from aerosols from the air conditioning on top of buildings blowing away and the coolness of the pools that atomise so to speak. But, and I speak as one who had had the disease, shower heads can also be a source of the infection. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
#16
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Fortic tank leak
On 13/02/2020 18:28, charles wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\) wrote: No most people get it from aerosols from the air conditioning on top of buildings blowing away and the coolness of the pools that atomise so to speak. But, and I speak as one who had had the disease, shower heads can also be a source of the infection. Someone died after visiting a garden centre where the hot tubs on display had stagnant, tepid water in them and caught it from that. |
#17
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Fortic tank leak
On 13/02/2020 12:34, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote: Mike Halmarack wrote: One thing leads to another. The management company of our blocks of flats sent around some documents which included the warning that stagnant water in pipes above a certain temperature may harbour dangerous bacteria, namely Legionella. Since I got a dose of Legionella a few years back in Portugal my wife freaked. We don't use this hot water system as the shower is an electric power shower. So, I turned off the main feed to the fortic tank and drained down the via the hot taps in kitchen and bathroom. This morning there is much water in the airing cupboard and a steady drip coming from the bottom of the fortic tank. Is a drain down of the tank itself using the drain cock on the side the probable best solution? Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Where is this water in your airing cupboard? Has your tank just sprung a leak? If you want to drain a HW tank you cant do it via the hot taps as HW is drawn off from the top of the tank. If you have a drain cock at the bottom youre sorted, if not a length of hosepipe inserted through the HW outlet down to the bottom of the tank will allow you to syphon it out. Tim Used this method but nothing coming out of the drain cock and this (gravity pressure?)tank is still full. I explained the busy role of the kettle in an earlier post. I did that for while and the three feet on the kettle 'melted' dents into the cushionfloor which won't recover. damn. |
#18
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Fortic tank leak
On 13/02/2020 12:53, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote: ... Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Kettle. No Legionella sufferers here, so far. It's that the management company sent a document warning of the dangers and stating that it was the leaseholder's responsibility to ensure that water in the pipes was above 60C. If this isn't a hot water system serving the whole block, why should they care ?. If it is a copper cylinder in your flat with copper pipes connecting to the hot taps then the copper is a biocide anyway. Just make sure it is well lagged and get one of those Smiths timers that gives it an hour a day to get it up to temp and then use the hot water for whatever. If you have economy 7 electric, make sure it comes on during the off peak period. An electric shower won't help your condensation and mould problem. |
#19
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Fortic tank leak
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 18:28:50 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote: In article , Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\) wrote: No most people get it from aerosols from the air conditioning on top of buildings blowing away and the coolness of the pools that atomise so to speak. But, and I speak as one who had had the disease, shower heads can also be a source of the infection. I think mine was too but I'm not sure. There were a lot of shower heads and aircon blasting away at that time. -- Mike |
#20
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Fortic tank leak
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 19:47:24 +0000, Andrew
wrote: On 13/02/2020 12:53, Mike Halmarack wrote: On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote: ... Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Kettle. No Legionella sufferers here, so far. It's that the management company sent a document warning of the dangers and stating that it was the leaseholder's responsibility to ensure that water in the pipes was above 60C. If this isn't a hot water system serving the whole block, why should they care ?. I dunno, they seem quite careing in many ways. Maybe it's because they can be sacked by the freehold shareholders on a vote at the AGM.. If it is a copper cylinder in your flat with copper pipes connecting to the hot taps then the copper is a biocide anyway. Just make sure it is well lagged and get one of those Smiths timers that gives it an hour a day to get it up to temp and then use the hot water for whatever. That's the current plan, in fact it's in operation except for the extra lagging, which is on order. If you have economy 7 electric, make sure it comes on during the off peak period. We were on Economy 7 as a carry over when we moved in. But as the previous residents had thrown out the night storage heaters in favour of some trendy panel heaters from Lidl, I changed the tarrif. An electric shower won't help your condensation and mould problem. Gave the mould an aspirin and a good dehumidyfying. Never seen a sign of it since. Though if it does show up I'll present it with the newly inflated electric bill. That should really scare it off. -- Mike |
#21
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Fortic tank leak
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 14:59:37 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote: No most people get it from aerosols from the air conditioning on top of buildings blowing away and the coolness of the pools that atomise so to speak. Brian Yes, blowing deadly kisses. A nasty wee souvenir. -- Mike |
#22
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Fortic tank leak
On 14/02/2020 15:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 19:47:24 +0000, Andrew wrote: On 13/02/2020 12:53, Mike Halmarack wrote: On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote: ... Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Kettle. No Legionella sufferers here, so far. It's that the management company sent a document warning of the dangers and stating that it was the leaseholder's responsibility to ensure that water in the pipes was above 60C. If this isn't a hot water system serving the whole block, why should they care ?. I dunno, they seem quite careing in many ways. Maybe it's because they can be sacked by the freehold shareholders on a vote at the AGM.. If it is a copper cylinder in your flat with copper pipes connecting to the hot taps then the copper is a biocide anyway. Just make sure it is well lagged and get one of those Smiths timers that gives it an hour a day to get it up to temp and then use the hot water for whatever. That's the current plan, in fact it's in operation except for the extra lagging, which is on order. If you have economy 7 electric, make sure it comes on during the off peak period. We were on Economy 7 as a carry over when we moved in. But as the previous residents had thrown out the night storage heaters in favour of some trendy panel heaters from Lidl, I changed the tarrif. Well that was an expensive decision. Have you looked into those new versions of storage heaters that are supposed to be more efficient according to the EU ?. An electric shower won't help your condensation and mould problem. Gave the mould an aspirin and a good dehumidyfying. Never seen a sign of it since. Though if it does show up I'll present it with the newly inflated electric bill. That should really scare it off. I would revert to economy 7 if you can. If you don't have gas then anything is cheaper that peak rate leccy, apart from an open fire. |
#23
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Fortic tank leak
Andrew wrote:
I would revert to economy 7 if you can. If you don't have gas then anything is cheaper that peak rate leccy, apart from an open fire. Depends how you get your fuel. ;-) At least with an open fire you can glean free fuel. Less easy to do that with gas/oil/electricity. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#24
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Fortic tank leak
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 19:38:09 +0000, Andrew
wrote: On 14/02/2020 15:08, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 19:47:24 +0000, Andrew wrote: On 13/02/2020 12:53, Mike Halmarack wrote: On 13 Feb 2020 12:13:32 GMT, Tim+ wrote: ... Curious. What do you do for hot water for the rest of your hot taps? How long have you lived there? How many folk have caught Legionella from their HW systems in your flats? Kettle. No Legionella sufferers here, so far. It's that the management company sent a document warning of the dangers and stating that it was the leaseholder's responsibility to ensure that water in the pipes was above 60C. If this isn't a hot water system serving the whole block, why should they care ?. I dunno, they seem quite careing in many ways. Maybe it's because they can be sacked by the freehold shareholders on a vote at the AGM.. If it is a copper cylinder in your flat with copper pipes connecting to the hot taps then the copper is a biocide anyway. Just make sure it is well lagged and get one of those Smiths timers that gives it an hour a day to get it up to temp and then use the hot water for whatever. That's the current plan, in fact it's in operation except for the extra lagging, which is on order. If you have economy 7 electric, make sure it comes on during the off peak period. We were on Economy 7 as a carry over when we moved in. But as the previous residents had thrown out the night storage heaters in favour of some trendy panel heaters from Lidl, I changed the tarrif. Well that was an expensive decision. Have you looked into those new versions of storage heaters that are supposed to be more efficient according to the EU ?. Yes, they're quite expensive in themselves and the fitting estimate was a bit of a shocker. Especially as it only cost £500 to take them out. But £2000 + to put them back in. An electric shower won't help your condensation and mould problem. Gave the mould an aspirin and a good dehumidyfying. Never seen a sign of it since. Though if it does show up I'll present it with the newly inflated electric bill. That should really scare it off. I would revert to economy 7 if you can. If you don't have gas then anything is cheaper that peak rate leccy, apart from an open fire. I do have this ideal of economy 7 and night storage heaters but it's unlikely to happen. This place has a large lounge with south facing patio type windows. The least bit of sunshine, even in winter, has that room's warmth taken care of for the daytime. The kitchen tends to be self heating. The "master bedroom" is now a smaller combined computer room/lounge which can be retreated to on extra cold days for ease of heating. This leaves the second bedroom, which is small enough to run on body heat and a frugally employed Lidl electric blanket. Far from perfect but what the heck. -- Mike |
#25
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Fortic tank leak
On 15 Feb 2020 19:52:01 GMT, Tim+ wrote:
Andrew wrote: I would revert to economy 7 if you can. If you don't have gas then anything is cheaper that peak rate leccy, apart from an open fire. Depends how you get your fuel. ;-) At least with an open fire you can glean free fuel. Less easy to do that with gas/oil/electricity. Tim Those were the days! -- Mike |
#26
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Fortic tank leak
Mike Halmarack wrote:
On 15 Feb 2020 19:52:01 GMT, Tim+ wrote: Andrew wrote: I would revert to economy 7 if you can. If you don't have gas then anything is cheaper that peak rate leccy, apart from an open fire. Depends how you get your fuel. ;-) At least with an open fire you can glean free fuel. Less easy to do that with gas/oil/electricity. Tim Those were the days! Were? They are my current days. Been burning logs in my log burner daily for weeks and weeks now, all locally gleaned, sawn, split, stacked and dried. I cant pretend that its enough to heat my whole house but its jolly nice. ;-) Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#27
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Fortic tank leak
On 17/02/2020 19:44, Tim+ wrote:
Mike Halmarack wrote: On 15 Feb 2020 19:52:01 GMT, Tim+ wrote: Andrew wrote: I would revert to economy 7 if you can. If you don't have gas then anything is cheaper that peak rate leccy, apart from an open fire. Depends how you get your fuel. ;-) At least with an open fire you can glean free fuel. Less easy to do that with gas/oil/electricity. Tim Those were the days! Were? They are my current days. Been burning logs in my log burner daily for weeks and weeks now, all locally gleaned, sawn, split, stacked and dried. I cant pretend that its enough to heat my whole house but its jolly nice. ;-) Tim The PM2.5 Police are coming for you .... |
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