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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:22:11 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo4ek8wdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:15:21 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote

What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

And those who read more than one group wouldn't
have the post auto marked as read in the other groups.


Indeed. If crossposting was somehow wrong, then it wouldn't be allowed by
all the newsreaders and newsservers out there.


Not all news servers do, at least one of them,
forget which, doesn't allow cross posting.


Never seen that happen, but then I've only used a few servers.

Stupid imo but it is that stupid.


Agreed.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.

He didn't say break, he said go leaky.


I assume leaky also means not functioning within the desired parameters.


No, with his comment about damaging other
stuff, he meant leaking with stuff coming out.


If it damages other stuff, I assume that was because of the short it presented to the rest of the circuit.

Ii did happen a bit.


I've never seen it in my 44 years.


Likely because of the sort of gear you
ever got to deal with. They were never
all that common in domestic stuff.


They're in everything.

But then you are considerably older than me.


Yep, and have dealt with a much wider
variety of electronic equipment.


Ooooh!

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On 09/02/2020 22:54:15, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:17:44 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo12lowdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:10:44 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 14:18:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?



I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay,
as an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are
slightly
smaller)

Try a real world electronics online catalogue

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...861-ND/4843671

vs
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...812-ND/5822363


suggests the costs ratio for your example value is 3x or so for 1,000
off.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

Well Alibaba disagrees with you.


Bet you cant provide a pair of links on
that like you did with the ebay prices.


Do it yourself.


Aren't you bright enough to post links here?
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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:17:44 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the two clinically insane cretins' latest troll****

--
Typical retarded "conversation" between the Scottish ****** and the senile
Ozzietard:

Birdbrain: "Horse **** doesn't stink."

Senile Rodent: "It does if you roll in it."

Birdbrain: "I've never worked out why, I assumed it was maybe meateaters
that made stinky ****, but then why does vegetarian human **** stink? Is it
just the fact that we're capable of digesting meat?"

Senile Rodent: "Nope, some cow **** stinks too."

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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:22:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another load of the two clinically insane sociopaths' endless sick
bull****

--
TYPICAL retarded "conversation" between sociopath Rodent and sociopath
Birdbrain from August 26th 2018:

Birdbrain: "I have one head but 5 fingers."

Senile Rodent: "Obvious lie. You hairy legged cross dressers are so inbred
that you all have two heads."

Birdbrain: "You're the one that likes hairy legs remember?"

Senile Rodent: "The problem isnt the hairy legs, it's the gross inbreeding
that
produces two headed unemployables like you."

Birdbrain: "So why did you mention hairy legs?"

Senile Rodent: "Because that's what those who arent actually stupid enough
to shave their legs have."

Birdbrain: "You only have hairy legs if both of the following are true:
1) You're quite far back on the evolutionary scale.
2) You haven't learned what a razor is for."

Senile Rodent: "Only a terminal ****wit or a woman shaves their legs."

Birdbrain: "There is literally zero point in having hair all over your
body."

Senile Rodent: "There is even less point in wasting your time changing what
you are born with."

MID:
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Default Troll-feeding Senile ASSHOLE Alert!

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 23:04:45 +0000, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


Do it yourself.


Aren't you bright enough to post links here?


Aren't you bright enough to see that you are dealing with a CLINICALLY
INSANE sociopathic troll, senile smartass? tsk


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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqq8hbkwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:49:54 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqghipbwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:43:30 -0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 09/02/2020 16:06, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward
the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

I remember working on (expensive) test equipment in the 80s and a
common
failure mechanism with the tantalum bead capacitors was a short circuit
taking out other components.

Were those visibly obviously damaged? It's just I've never seen one
fail,


Most likely because you werent involved with the gear they were used in.


Almost everything uses them.


That's bull****.

and was wondering if I could tell from a visual inspection.


Yes with the ones that leak, no with the ones that go short.


Then I may have seen one :-)

The electrolytics have clearly failed when they bulge or burst - I see
it
all the time in old/cheap motherboards, or inside TVs.


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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqskpuhwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:17:44 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo12lowdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:10:44 -0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 09/02/2020 14:18:54, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:44:19 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:

Cost.

Commander Kinsey wrote

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking
electrolytics in TVs?

Cost.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...herboard-line?


I tried to find the cheapest normal and solid capacitors on Ebay, as
an
example 270uf, 16V:
Normal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123940375447
Solid: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361349708743
£3.94 for normal, £3.83 for solid, so pretty much the same price.
Sizing also almost equal: 12x9mm vs 12x8mm (the solid ones are
slightly
smaller)

Try a real world electronics online catalogue

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...861-ND/4843671
vs
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-de...812-ND/5822363

suggests the costs ratio for your example value is 3x or so for 1,000
off.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

Well Alibaba disagrees with you.


Bet you cant provide a pair of links on
that like you did with the ebay prices.


Do it yourself.


It isnt actually possible. You lied, again.

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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqsmvjmwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:22:11 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fqo4ek8wdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:15:21 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote

What's wrong with crossposting? There are 4 groups where people might
know the answer. Yes, I could post 4 times seperately, but then
people
wouldn't see each other's replies.

And those who read more than one group wouldn't
have the post auto marked as read in the other groups.

Indeed. If crossposting was somehow wrong, then it wouldn't be allowed
by
all the newsreaders and newsservers out there.


Not all news servers do, at least one of them,
forget which, doesn't allow cross posting.


Never seen that happen, but then I've only used a few servers.

Stupid imo but it is that stupid.


Agreed.

I've checked both Ebay and Alibaba (where you can buy huge bulk
quantities), and the prices are no different.

I've never seen the tantalum ones break.

He didn't say break, he said go leaky.

I assume leaky also means not functioning within the desired parameters.


No, with his comment about damaging other
stuff, he meant leaking with stuff coming out.


If it damages other stuff, I assume that was because of the short it
presented to the rest of the circuit.

Ii did happen a bit.

I've never seen it in my 44 years.


Likely because of the sort of gear you
ever got to deal with. They were never
all that common in domestic stuff.


They're in everything.


Wrong, as always.

But then you are considerably older than me.


Yep, and have dealt with a much wider
variety of electronic equipment.


Ooooh!

On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:06:41 -0000, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
wrote:


Stop excessive crosposting...

I suppose cos they can get them el chepo. I also have found toward
the
end
of the 90s, those little tantalum caps that look like blobs of resin
coloured blue tend to go leaky and damage the rest of the circuit.
Nothing is supposed to last any more.
Brian

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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On 09/02/2020 20:59, Paul wrote:

And while one biased company claims electrolytics
dry out after 3 years (a made up number), another
company (likely using field statistics for their
own capacitors) finds the time constant is 17 years.
And I would have to conclude that the 17 year number
is likely to be closer to the truth (based on old computers
still in a running state, like my first computer from
1998-1999 or so which still operates just fine).



Temperature, both rated and operating, is a factor. As I understand it a
rating of,say, 7000 hours at 105C means for every 10C lower actual
operating temperature it doubles the lifetime. Operating them at 65C
will give approx 12 years of continuous use.

In a old computer the power supply always had it's own fan keeping the
unit relatively cool. In modern TVs, set top boxes etc the room for a
noisy fan giving a decent air flow is somewhat limited and temperatures
within many boxes are 60C+. Many capacitors in switched mode supplies
also seem to be fitted very close to hot heat-sinks! In my experience
it's usually the power supply capacitors that have an early failure.

Some manufactures will fit capacitors rated at 7,000 hours at 85C so
when operating at 65C the life expectancy is closer to 28,000 hours (3
years continuous use).

There is also a problem with life expectancy from self heating due to
the Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR). For a switched mode supply a
capacitor with a low ESR is required. A decade or so ago I read a
technical report from one of the more respected capacitor manufacturers
(Rubicon I think) where they claimed that they used physically larger
cans/packaging than some of their Korean competitors to ensure lower ESR
figures. I always found that when changing duff electrolytic with Korean
brand names such as SamYoung etc. that the replacements from a variety
of reputable brands were physically larger - usually the same diameter
can but the height of the can was maybe 5mm more.

I've had capacitors fail in a couple of PVRs after a couple of years but
carefully selected replacements lasted close to 10 years.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 10:40:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the two sociopathic cretins' endless sick troll****

--
Another typical retarded conversation between our two village idiots,
Birdbrain and Rodent Speed:

Birdbrain: "You beat me to it. Plain sex is boring."

Senile Rodent: "Then **** the cats. That wont be boring."

Birdbrain: "Sell me a de-clawing tool first."

Senile Rodent: "Wont help with the teeth."

Birdbrain: "They've never gone for me with their mouths."

Rodent Speed: "They will if you are stupid enough to try ****ing them."

Birdbrain: "No, they always use claws."

Rodent Speed: "They wont if you try ****ing them. Try it and see."

Message-ID:
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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 10:37:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

....nothing's left!

--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:

Birdbrain: "But imagine how cool it was to own slaves."

Senile Rodent: "Yeah, right. Feed them, clothe them, and fix them when
they're broken.
After all, you paid good money for them. Then you've got to keep an eye
on them all the time."

Birdbrain: "Better than having to give them wages on top of that."

Senile Rodent: "Specially when they make more slaves for you
and produce their own food and clothes."

MID:
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?


Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.
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Default Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 10:20:53 -0000 (UTC), John Doe, another brain dead,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


EVERYTHING wrong with taking the idiotic baits of a PROVEN clinically insane
sociopathic trolling ******, troll-feeding senile idiot!
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On 2020-02-14 4:20 a.m., John Doe wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?


Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


Yep, Good caps were made by Cornell Dubilier, Used them for many years.

Rene



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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 10:20:53 -0000, John Doe wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?


Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


Well there seem to be loads of them about. A 15 amp 13.8V PSU I bought brand new had one fail after only 3 months use. And it was only used to about 5A. It's been happy ever since I put a better one in.
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:54:04 -0000, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 2020-02-14 4:20 a.m., John Doe wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?


Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


Yep, Good caps were made by Cornell Dubilier, Used them for many years.


I remember Sprague Compulytic, not sure how good they were, never had one fail though. Still got some (twice the size of a fist) in a drawer.
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

"Commander Kinsey"
newsp.0fzwdaznwdg98l@glass Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:54:36 GMT in
alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:54:04 -0000, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-02-14 4:20 a.m., John Doe wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still
find leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...-launches-soli
dca pacitor-motherboard-line?

Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be
made cheaply.


Yep, Good caps were made by Cornell Dubilier, Used them for many
years.


I remember Sprague Compulytic, not sure how good they were, never
had one fail though. Still got some (twice the size of a fist) in
a drawer.


They are most likely, no good anymore. Toss them and forget you ever
heard the name.


--
This screen intentionally left blank.
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:54:04 -0000, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-02-14 4:20 a.m., John Doe wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?

Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


Yep, Good caps were made by Cornell Dubilier, Used them for many years.


I remember Sprague Compulytic, not sure how good they were, never had
one fail though. Still got some (twice the size of a fist) in a drawer.


If the seals are good, why wouldn't they work ?

They might need to be re-formed.

I'll duck down behind this desk, while you give
that a try.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

"Applying a positive voltage to a "wet" capacitor causes a
reforming (self-healing) process which repairs all weakened
dielectric layers, and the leakage current remain at a low level.[73]
"

Another web page I found, has a method.

https://www.6v6.co.uk/vcomp/tech_tips/reform_caps.htm

"Electrolytic capacitors can be dangerous. They can be charged
to a high voltage and will retain that energy for quite a while.
If the terminals of associated circuitry are touched, a severe
shock and burn may result."

I think Captain Obvious wrote that paragraph.

There are plenty of things to know about this
topic, to remain safe. With his wealth of bad
capacitor experiences, I'm sure the Commander
knows what I'm talking about. Personally, I find
the bad experiences are the best teachers.

Paul
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:51:04 +0100, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:54:04 -0000, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-02-14 4:20 a.m., John Doe wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?

Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


Yep, Good caps were made by Cornell Dubilier, Used them for many years.


I remember Sprague Compulytic, not sure how good they were, never had
one fail though. Still got some (twice the size of a fist) in a drawer.


If the seals are good, why wouldn't they work ?


They do, I've used a few of them. The worst that could happen is some leakage.

They might need to be re-formed.

I'll duck down behind this desk, while you give
that a try.


You would have ducked even further when I reformed a NiCad battery in a laptop by over-volting it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

"Applying a positive voltage to a "wet" capacitor causes a
reforming (self-healing) process which repairs all weakened
dielectric layers, and the leakage current remain at a low level.[73]
"

Another web page I found, has a method.

https://www.6v6.co.uk/vcomp/tech_tips/reform_caps.htm

"Electrolytic capacitors can be dangerous. They can be charged
to a high voltage and will retain that energy for quite a while.
If the terminals of associated circuitry are touched, a severe
shock and burn may result."

I think Captain Obvious wrote that paragraph.

There are plenty of things to know about this
topic, to remain safe. With his wealth of bad
capacitor experiences, I'm sure the Commander
knows what I'm talking about. Personally, I find
the bad experiences are the best teachers.


Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause explosions by overloading them?


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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

Well cost has a lot to do with it, I'd expect.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Paul" wrote in message
...
Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:54:04 -0000, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-02-14 4:20 a.m., John Doe wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

Motherboards used them over a decade ago, so why do I still find
leaking electrolytics in TVs?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...unches-solidca
pacitor-motherboard-line?

Nothing wrong with real electrolytic capacitors. Anything can be made
cheaply.


Yep, Good caps were made by Cornell Dubilier, Used them for many years.


I remember Sprague Compulytic, not sure how good they were, never had one
fail though. Still got some (twice the size of a fist) in a drawer.


If the seals are good, why wouldn't they work ?

They might need to be re-formed.

I'll duck down behind this desk, while you give
that a try.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

"Applying a positive voltage to a "wet" capacitor causes a
reforming (self-healing) process which repairs all weakened
dielectric layers, and the leakage current remain at a low level.[73]
"

Another web page I found, has a method.

https://www.6v6.co.uk/vcomp/tech_tips/reform_caps.htm

"Electrolytic capacitors can be dangerous. They can be charged
to a high voltage and will retain that energy for quite a while.
If the terminals of associated circuitry are touched, a severe
shock and burn may result."

I think Captain Obvious wrote that paragraph.

There are plenty of things to know about this
topic, to remain safe. With his wealth of bad
capacitor experiences, I'm sure the Commander
knows what I'm talking about. Personally, I find
the bad experiences are the best teachers.

Paul




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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.


On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:16:16 +0100, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

Well cost has a lot to do with it, I'd expect.
Brian

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On Thursday, 30 April 2020 20:35:27 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.


Not compared to the types of capacitors check out the data sheets typically up to 2000 hours.


On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:16:16 +0100, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

Well cost has a lot to do with it, I'd expect.
Brian


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whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 30 April 2020 20:35:27 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.


Not compared to the types of capacitors check out the data sheets
typically up to 2000 hours.


You have to apply the Arrhenius temperature correction to those
service hours at high temperature.

In chemistry, Arrhenius is taught as if it's a monolithic
thing. Every 7C (10F) rise in temperature, doubles reaction rate.

In electronics, something different happens. Arrhenius
exponential is curve fitted, and the doubling rate
for reliability, differs depending on topic area. The
doubling is around 15C or so for curve fit of
electrolytic capacitor reliability. You use the curve fit data
from the manufacturer, to correct the service hours at
a lower temperature.

If the capacitor operating hours are five temperature-doublings
lower, then the service hours would be 2^5 * 2000 hours or 64000 hours
sitting inside your computer case with the fan running. It's
not that warm in there.

When quoting the 2000 hour number, you also have to include
the temperature at which the number is quoted. A capacitor
quoting 2000 hours at 105C is better than a capacitor
sporting 2000 hours at 85C. You have to adjust them to
a common temperature, and then compare the hours, for
a fair comparison. Maybe the one at 105C is four times
better than the one at 85C. As a rough number pulled
from the air.

When you get those catalog numbers, it would pay then
to find the appnote where the manufacturer has
characterized the devices, and extracted the temperature
necessary for a doubling of reliability. Be it 15C or
whatever.

Paul
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On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:07:53 -0700 (PDT), whisky-depraved, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.


Not compared to the types of capacitors


Is that sociopathic ******, troll and attention whore now trying to get
attention with a troll about "capacitators"? And HOW many of you senile
IDIOTS did he get to feed him yet again? BG


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On Fri, 01 May 2020 01:07:53 +0100, whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 30 April 2020 20:35:27 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.


Not compared to the types of capacitors check out the data sheets typically up to 2000 hours.


Anything with only 2000 hours is not fit for sale. That's going back to the days of the filament lightbulbs.

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:16:16 +0100, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:

Well cost has a lot to do with it, I'd expect.
Brian


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Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2020 01:07:53 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 30 April 2020 20:35:27 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.


Not compared to the types of capacitors check out the data sheets
typically up to 2000 hours.


Anything with only 2000 hours is not fit for sale. That's going back to
the days of the filament lightbulbs.


At the temperature of the surface of the sun,
the lifetime of the capacitor is 0.1 milliseconds.
While you're sitting on the surface of the Sun,
a spherical cow flies by.

At 105C, the capacitor lasts 2,000 hours (as communicated in
some military reliability handbook or similar). The numbers
selected, are intended by the manufacturer to resemble
"classes of applications". Military, industrial, consumer.

At 45C, the capacitor lasts 60,000 hours.
This is the temperature inside your PC, on a particularly
hot summers day. A day so hot, you've stepped out of the
computer room, to go for a swim down at the lake.

The rubber seal on the cheap capacitorss, is rated for a 17 year
lifespan. Which is an issue that "runs in parallel" with
the accelerated life testing curve being communicated above.
If the room is filled with concentrated ozone, the cap
lasts a day or so, before the seal is gone and the cap
now has evaporating electrolyte.

The behavior of the reliability number, follows an Arrhenius
style equation, with suitably extracted empirical constants.
This requires the engineer in the lab doing the measurements,
to own some "curve fit software", because nobody writes
this software for themselves any more. (Although we were taught
how when I went to school. Not that this matters.)

Paul
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On Fri, 01 May 2020 21:05:34 +0100, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2020 01:07:53 +0100, whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 30 April 2020 20:35:27 UTC+1, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Cost is only 20% higher. Lifetime is many times greater.

Not compared to the types of capacitors check out the data sheets
typically up to 2000 hours.


Anything with only 2000 hours is not fit for sale. That's going back to
the days of the filament lightbulbs.


At the temperature of the surface of the sun,
the lifetime of the capacitor is 0.1 milliseconds.


They're not used there.

While you're sitting on the surface of the Sun,
a spherical cow flies by.


WTF?

At 105C, the capacitor lasts 2,000 hours (as communicated in
some military reliability handbook or similar). The numbers
selected, are intended by the manufacturer to resemble
"classes of applications". Military, industrial, consumer.


Rubbish. I've got graphics cards approaching that temperature. 2000 hours is only 83 days, that would fall foul of the warranty.

At 45C, the capacitor lasts 60,000 hours.
This is the temperature inside your PC, on a particularly
hot summers day. A day so hot, you've stepped out of the
computer room, to go for a swim down at the lake.


Really? Capacitors tend to be next to power circuits, they're much hotter than that.

The rubber seal on the cheap capacitorss,


Which is why I said we should be using the solid ones. I see no seal on those.

is rated for a 17 year
lifespan. Which is an issue that "runs in parallel" with
the accelerated life testing curve being communicated above.
If the room is filled with concentrated ozone, the cap
lasts a day or so, before the seal is gone and the cap
now has evaporating electrolyte.


But you'd suffocate first.

The behavior of the reliability number, follows an Arrhenius
style equation, with suitably extracted empirical constants.
This requires the engineer in the lab doing the measurements,
to own some "curve fit software", because nobody writes
this software for themselves any more. (Although we were taught
how when I went to school. Not that this matters.)

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On Fri, 01 May 2020 16:05:34 -0400, Paul, another mentally deficient,
troll-feeding senile asshole, blathered:


At the temperature of the surface of the sun,


FLUSH all the ****

Just what kind of a SICK senile troll-feeding ASSHOLE are YOU?


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Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2020 21:05:34 +0100, Paul wrote:



While you're sitting on the surface of the Sun,
a spherical cow flies by.


WTF?


You're a university graduate with a physics degree,
and you don't know what a spherical cow is ?

Paul


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On Sat, 02 May 2020 04:10:27 +0100, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2020 21:05:34 +0100, Paul wrote:


While you're sitting on the surface of the Sun,
a spherical cow flies by.


WTF?


You're a university graduate with a physics degree,
and you don't know what a spherical cow is ?


There's more than one branch of physics. I didn't do (but wish I had) astrophysics.
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On 02/05/2020 19:58, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2020 04:10:27 +0100, Paul wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2020 21:05:34 +0100, Paul wrote:


While you're sitting on the surface of the Sun,
a spherical cow flies by.

WTF?


You're a university graduate with a physics degree,
and you don't know what a spherical cow is ?


There's more than one branch of physics.* I didn't do (but wish I had)
astrophysics.


Hows it going Hucker. Have you got a job yet.

--
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On 30/04/2020 19:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?


*I* did! :-D
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On Sat, 02 May 2020 21:34:00 +0100, David_B wrote:

On 30/04/2020 19:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?


*I* did! :-D


Did you ever misuse a CO2 fire extinguisher? There are two fun things you can do with those. Freezing people's body parts, and dropping them off very high buildings causing them to rupture and explode catastrophically.
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Default Troll-feeding Senile ASSHOLE Alert!

On Sat, 2 May 2020 21:34:00 +0100, David_Braindead, another mentally
deficient troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?


*I* did! :-D


You a sociopath like the Scottish ******, David_Braindead, you troll-feeding
senile asshole?


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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On 02/05/2020 21:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2020 21:34:00 +0100, David_B
wrote:

On 30/04/2020 19:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?


*I* did! :-D


Did you ever misuse a CO2 fire extinguisher?


No. I have never abused life-saving equipment.

There are two fun things
you can do with those.* Freezing people's body parts, and dropping them
off very high buildings causing them to rupture and explode
catastrophically.


You should NEVER drop people's body parts off very high buildings? :-P


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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On Sat, 02 May 2020 23:20:19 +0100, David_B wrote:

On 02/05/2020 21:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2020 21:34:00 +0100, David_B
wrote:

On 30/04/2020 19:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?

*I* did! :-D


Did you ever misuse a CO2 fire extinguisher?


No. I have never abused life-saving equipment.


They save the lives of those stupid enough to have set light to stuff. Anyway, it was in a disused granary.

There are two fun things
you can do with those. Freezing people's body parts, and dropping them
off very high buildings causing them to rupture and explode
catastrophically.


You should NEVER drop people's body parts off very high buildings? :-P


Stop assuming I'm even more evil than I actually am! And if you do so, give me some hints beforehand!
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?

On 05/02/2020 02:52 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2020 21:34:00 +0100, David_B
wrote:

On 30/04/2020 19:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?


*I* did! :-D


Did you ever misuse a CO2 fire extinguisher? There are two fun things
you can do with those. Freezing people's body parts, and dropping them
off very high buildings causing them to rupture and explode
catastrophically.


****ing wasteful. Everybody knows the best use of a CO2 fire
extinguisher in chilling beer. You're excused from knowing that as you
Brits prefer to lap it up warm and still.
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Default Why doesn't everything use solid aluminium capacitors?



"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 05/02/2020 02:52 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2020 21:34:00 +0100, David_B
wrote:

On 30/04/2020 19:34, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Didn't we all use capacitors as kids to shock people or to cause
explosions by overloading them?

*I* did! :-D


Did you ever misuse a CO2 fire extinguisher? There are two fun things
you can do with those. Freezing people's body parts, and dropping them
off very high buildings causing them to rupture and explode
catastrophically.


****ing wasteful. Everybody knows the best use of a CO2 fire extinguisher
in chilling beer.


Its a stupid woman who wont drink beer, just orange squash.

You're excused from knowing that as you
Brits prefer to lap it up warm and still.


She doesn't.

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Default Troll-feeding Senile ASSHOLE Alert!

On Sat, 2 May 2020 23:20:19 +0100, David_Braindead, another mentally
deficient troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:

No. I have never abused life-saving equipment.


You ARE abusing these groups with your troll-feeding, senile troll-feeding
ASSHOLE!
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