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Default Driving at night

R D S wrote:

I ask as an optician [...]
Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?


No, I did consider getting some of the specsavers driving glasses, but
AFAIK they're for day time, not night time driving, in the end I didn't
bother ...
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People don't realise that the 'reflector' is just 'decorative' and
that LED floods are omnidirectional within the limits of the frame. I
fitted one last week and with Paul up the ladder with a spanner I went
to the effective horizon (top of the yard) and gestured down a bit up
a bit. The light has ended up tilted downwards so much it looks odd
but it still throws light to the horizon. In the past I've had to
restrict the top of the beam with strips of black tape on the glass. I
wish someone would invent a LED flood with a bit of beam control. I
realise the problem is that the light isn't a single point source.

Bill


In Theatre Lighting - luminaires would have "Barn Door Shutters" to control
spill. However, even theatres now seem to shine lights into the audience!

People aim the notional centre of the "beam" to the end of their property -
which means that 50% is going beyond.
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On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....


I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to people
who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the feedback
I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52
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On Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:20:45 +0000, R D S wrote:

On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....


I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to people
who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the feedback
I have heard is mixed at best.


I would love to know how well these work. I have a slight problem in my
right eye which may well be incipient cataract, but I'd rather not go
there yet.

There is no left eye.



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In article ,
williamwright wrote:
People don't realise that the 'reflector' is just 'decorative' and that
LED floods are omnidirectional within the limits of the frame. I fitted
one last week and with Paul up the ladder with a spanner I went to the
effective horizon (top of the yard) and gestured down a bit up a bit.
The light has ended up tilted downwards so much it looks odd but it
still throws light to the horizon. In the past I've had to restrict the
top of the beam with strips of black tape on the glass. I wish someone
would invent a LED flood with a bit of beam control. I realise the
problem is that the light isn't a single point source.


On my exterior flood lights, the LED is more of a point source than the
old tubular halogens. They were quite cheap from Lidl and do the job OK -
although not as bright as the halogens. But they came with sensors on the
bottom (not needed in my case) which stopped them being tilted down as far
as I wanted, to point them off next door. Once I'd removed them, there's a
reasonably sharp border at the edge of the light.

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Default Driving at night

Max Demian wrote:
On 07/02/2020 13:51, NY wrote:
"John" Not.responding.@dotcom wrote in message
2.222...
Night driving is made harder by:
People with dirty and poorly aimed headlights.
Houses with exterior floodlights aimed to light up the air.
Buildings with bulkhead type lights that just throw the light everwhere.
Cyclists who deliberately seem to aim their intensive lights at the eyes
of drivers.


Drivers who don't dip their headlights when you can see them coming
towards you. (That goes without saying, which I presume is why you
didn't mention it.)

Drivers who leave their rear (red) foglights on even when it isn't foggy.

Drivers who keep their brake lights on when they are stopped for many
minutes in a queue of traffic, dazzling and "destroying" the night
vision of the drivers behind. (*)


Theoretically red light should leave *night vision* unaffected as the
rods are only sensitive by and affected by blue-green light (which is
why red lights are used in submarine cabins - to retain vision for the
periscope at night). I suspect that there is too much light during
normal driving to need the rods: and your blue sensitive cones should be
OK.

Tell that to audi, their tails are blinding and not only in the normal
place but at higher places.
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On 08/02/2020 13:13, FMurtz wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 07/02/2020 13:51, NY wrote:
"John" Not.responding.@dotcom wrote in message
2.222...
Night driving is made harder by:
People with dirty and poorly aimed headlights.
Houses with exterior floodlights aimed to light up the air.
Buildings with bulkhead type lights that just throw the light
everwhere.
Cyclists who deliberately seem to aim their intensive lights at the
eyes
of drivers.

Drivers who don't dip their headlights when you can see them coming
towards you. (That goes without saying, which I presume is why you
didn't mention it.)

Drivers who leave their rear (red) foglights on even when it isn't
foggy.

Drivers who keep their brake lights on when they are stopped for many
minutes in a queue of traffic, dazzling and "destroying" the night
vision of the drivers behind. (*)


Theoretically red light should leave *night vision* unaffected as the
rods are only sensitive by and affected by blue-green light (which is
why red lights are used in submarine cabins - to retain vision for the
periscope at night). I suspect that there is too much light during
normal driving to need the rods: and your blue sensitive cones should
be OK.

Tell that to audi, their tails are blinding and not only in the normal
place but at higher places.


Wear glasses that are the complement to red. Cyan I assume.

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Default Driving at night

On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 11:20:27 +0000, williamwright wrote:

People don't realise that the 'reflector' is just 'decorative' and that
LED floods are omnidirectional within the limits of the frame.


+1

I fitted one last week and with Paul up the ladder with a spanner I went
to the effective horizon (top of the yard) and gestured down a bit up a
bit. The light has ended up tilted downwards so much it looks odd but it
still throws light to the horizon.


Yep, the one we have is tilted down so far as to the face being
almost horizontal and it's "hot spot" is still visible 50 yds down
the road.

I wish someone would invent a LED flood with a bit of beam control.


Dark skies friendly lamps do exist but I've yet to find any to
compete with the shed 10 cheapies...


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Cheers
Dave.



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Default Driving at night

On 08/02/2020 00:41, Dave W wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 13:51:26 -0000, "NY" wrote:

"John" Not.responding.@dotcom wrote in message
2.222...
Night driving is made harder by:
People with dirty and poorly aimed headlights.
Houses with exterior floodlights aimed to light up the air.
Buildings with bulkhead type lights that just throw the light everwhere.
Cyclists who deliberately seem to aim their intensive lights at the eyes
of drivers.


Drivers who don't dip their headlights when you can see them coming towards
you. (That goes without saying, which I presume is why you didn't mention
it.)

Drivers who leave their rear (red) foglights on even when it isn't foggy.

Drivers who keep their brake lights on when they are stopped for many
minutes in a queue of traffic, dazzling and "destroying" the night vision of
the drivers behind. (*)

I've sometimes wondered if it was possible to construct a pull-down
half-silvered mirror to reflect the brake lights back to the offender.


I've had the opposite. Drivers who insist on driving on main beam when
you are in front of them, but not very close. When I've been in my
kit-car, letting them catch up has worked wonders - the body, including
the rear panel, is mirror-finish stainless-steel!

SteveW
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On 08/02/2020 12:17, John wrote:

People don't realise that the 'reflector' is just 'decorative' and
that LED floods are omnidirectional within the limits of the frame. I
fitted one last week and with Paul up the ladder with a spanner I went
to the effective horizon (top of the yard) and gestured down a bit up
a bit. The light has ended up tilted downwards so much it looks odd
but it still throws light to the horizon. In the past I've had to
restrict the top of the beam with strips of black tape on the glass. I
wish someone would invent a LED flood with a bit of beam control. I
realise the problem is that the light isn't a single point source.

Bill


In Theatre Lighting - luminaires would have "Barn Door Shutters" to control
spill. However, even theatres now seem to shine lights into the audience!

People aim the notional centre of the "beam" to the end of their property -
which means that 50% is going beyond.


I can happily say that the PIR light on my garage (in my back garden),
is angled so that the centre is quite close to the garage - both giving
a "worklight" in front of the garage and keeping the beam below the tops
of the 6' gates at the side of the house.

SteveW




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Default Driving at night

On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 5:39:24 AM UTC+11, Rod Speed wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
...
"John" Not.responding.@dotcom wrote in message
2.222...
Night driving is made harder by:
People with dirty and poorly aimed headlights.
Houses with exterior floodlights aimed to light up the air.
Buildings with bulkhead type lights that just throw the light everwhere.
Cyclists who deliberately seem to aim their intensive lights at the eyes
of drivers.


Drivers who don't dip their headlights when you can see them coming
towards you. (That goes without saying, which I presume is why you didn't
mention it.)

Drivers who leave their rear (red) foglights on even when it isn't foggy.

Drivers who keep their brake lights on when they are stopped for many
minutes in a queue of traffic, dazzling and "destroying" the night vision
of the drivers behind. (*)

Drivers who don't use full beam when it is safe/considerate to do so (ie
when there's nothing in front of them) which makes it more difficult to
see where the road ahead of them goes when you want to overtake them. I
tend to put my beam on as soon as I'm level with the car, so at least *I*
can see where the road goes beyond the distance that their dipped
headlights lights up.


Thats more evidence that there is something unusual
about your eyes. The driver of the car you are passing
can obviously see where they are going but you need
more light there.

Since you made the original comment I have never
been dazzled by those who keep their foot on the
brake when stopped at lights at night,

(*) I was once stuck in a long queue of traffic that had been diverted
because the main road had been closed due to an accident. The diversion
has a staggered crossroads where all four roads are busy so it needs
traffic lights - but because it is staggered, the lights only let traffic
in one direction (as opposed to two facing directions) go at once, so
queues quickly built up. There were long period where the traffic was
stationary, and then occasions when everyone shuffled forward about 100
yards. The guy in front of me kept his foot on his footbrake all the time
he was stationary, so all I could see was three big red blobs from his
brake lights. I put my sun visor down and closed my eyes. The light was so
bright even through my eyelids that I could see when they went out and
knew that it was safe to move forwards a bit. Even so, it was difficult to
see the road ahead for the first few seconds because my night vision had
been "destroyed" by the bright light and took a while to recover.


Thats more evidence that your eyes take longer than normal to adjust.

I've never had that effect and have never had to
close my eyes when stopped in traffic and almost
no one here doesnt keep their foot on the brake
when stopped at traffic lights at night.

I'm not sure whether he had an automatic and was too lazy to put it into
neutral and apply the handbrake whenever he was stopped


Or doesnt see the point in doing that.

- after all, it was easy to work out that each time we stopped it would be
for at least a minute. I suffered in silence because I didn't want to
cause conflict, but eventually the guy behind me (who could see the brake
lights through my windscreen) leapt out and yelled "For F's sake take your
foot off the brake when you've stopped", and I heard a few cheers from
other drivers behind me ;-) The offender decided to play silly buggers so
he then took to doing an emergency stop whenever he got close to the car
in front - luckily I wasn't too close when he first did it, and I was wise
to his little game after that. I resisted the temptation (and it was hard
to resist!) to put my headlights on full beam so *he* would be dazzled
like he was doing to me.


I had a similar red rear light persistance in my eyes while waiting at traffic lights.
Turned out that I am the right candidate for Cataract surgery, and I got done on both eyes. Everything is hunky dory ever since. Infact I was missing some colours before the operation !
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wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 5:39:24 AM UTC+11, Rod Speed wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
...
"John" Not.responding.@dotcom wrote in message
2.222...
Night driving is made harder by:
People with dirty and poorly aimed headlights.
Houses with exterior floodlights aimed to light up the air.
Buildings with bulkhead type lights that just throw the light
everwhere.
Cyclists who deliberately seem to aim their intensive lights at the
eyes
of drivers.

Drivers who don't dip their headlights when you can see them coming
towards you. (That goes without saying, which I presume is why you
didn't
mention it.)

Drivers who leave their rear (red) foglights on even when it isn't
foggy.

Drivers who keep their brake lights on when they are stopped for many
minutes in a queue of traffic, dazzling and "destroying" the night
vision
of the drivers behind. (*)

Drivers who don't use full beam when it is safe/considerate to do so
(ie
when there's nothing in front of them) which makes it more difficult to
see where the road ahead of them goes when you want to overtake them. I
tend to put my beam on as soon as I'm level with the car, so at least
*I*
can see where the road goes beyond the distance that their dipped
headlights lights up.


Thats more evidence that there is something unusual
about your eyes. The driver of the car you are passing
can obviously see where they are going but you need
more light there.

Since you made the original comment I have never
been dazzled by those who keep their foot on the
brake when stopped at lights at night,

(*) I was once stuck in a long queue of traffic that had been diverted
because the main road had been closed due to an accident. The diversion
has a staggered crossroads where all four roads are busy so it needs
traffic lights - but because it is staggered, the lights only let
traffic
in one direction (as opposed to two facing directions) go at once, so
queues quickly built up. There were long period where the traffic was
stationary, and then occasions when everyone shuffled forward about 100
yards. The guy in front of me kept his foot on his footbrake all the
time
he was stationary, so all I could see was three big red blobs from his
brake lights. I put my sun visor down and closed my eyes. The light was
so
bright even through my eyelids that I could see when they went out and
knew that it was safe to move forwards a bit. Even so, it was difficult
to
see the road ahead for the first few seconds because my night vision
had
been "destroyed" by the bright light and took a while to recover.


Thats more evidence that your eyes take longer than normal to adjust.

I've never had that effect and have never had to
close my eyes when stopped in traffic and almost
no one here doesnt keep their foot on the brake
when stopped at traffic lights at night.

I'm not sure whether he had an automatic and was too lazy to put it
into
neutral and apply the handbrake whenever he was stopped


Or doesnt see the point in doing that.

- after all, it was easy to work out that each time we stopped it would
be
for at least a minute. I suffered in silence because I didn't want to
cause conflict, but eventually the guy behind me (who could see the
brake
lights through my windscreen) leapt out and yelled "For F's sake take
your
foot off the brake when you've stopped", and I heard a few cheers from
other drivers behind me ;-) The offender decided to play silly buggers
so
he then took to doing an emergency stop whenever he got close to the
car
in front - luckily I wasn't too close when he first did it, and I was
wise
to his little game after that. I resisted the temptation (and it was
hard
to resist!) to put my headlights on full beam so *he* would be dazzled
like he was doing to me.


I had a similar red rear light persistance in my eyes while waiting at
traffic lights.
Turned out that I am the right candidate for Cataract surgery, and I got
done on both eyes. Everything is hunky dory ever since. Infact I was
missing some colours before the operation !


Interesting. I was told last time I had an eye test that
I would need cataract surgery and the optometrist
was very pushy about getting an appointment with
a medical professional. I dont have any real symptoms
at all except that I do find that I find walking into the
sun not as convenient as it used to be and have noticed
that I see better with the sun visor down when driving.

Dont get that stop light effect tho and I have looked
for it since the comments on here showed up too.

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On Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:16:48 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:17, John wrote:

People don't realise that the 'reflector' is just 'decorative' and
that LED floods are omnidirectional within the limits of the frame. I
fitted one last week and with Paul up the ladder with a spanner I went
to the effective horizon (top of the yard) and gestured down a bit up
a bit. The light has ended up tilted downwards so much it looks odd
but it still throws light to the horizon. In the past I've had to
restrict the top of the beam with strips of black tape on the glass. I
wish someone would invent a LED flood with a bit of beam control. I
realise the problem is that the light isn't a single point source.

Bill


In Theatre Lighting - luminaires would have "Barn Door Shutters" to control
spill. However, even theatres now seem to shine lights into the audience!

People aim the notional centre of the "beam" to the end of their property -
which means that 50% is going beyond.


I can happily say that the PIR light on my garage (in my back garden),
is angled so that the centre is quite close to the garage - both giving
a "worklight" in front of the garage and keeping the beam below the tops
of the 6' gates at the side of the house.

SteveW


I can happily say that our exterior lights are 2.5 watt (or very close), and timed to a pretty short period. Perfectly adequate for our normal purposes. (We do have four - front, two along the side, back.
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On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....


I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to people
who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52


Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber night
driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber clip-ons, and
I find them very effective in reducing the glare of blueish HID and LED
headlamps.
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I can happily say that the PIR light on my garage (in my back garden),
is angled so that the centre is quite close to the garage - both
giving a "worklight" in front of the garage and keeping the beam below
the tops of the 6' gates at the side of the house.

SteveW




10/10


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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 14:10:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Turned out that I am the right candidate for Cataract surgery, and I got
done on both eyes. Everything is hunky dory ever since. Infact I was
missing some colours before the operation !


Interesting. I was told last time I had an eye test that
I would need cataract surgery and the optometrist


Oh, ****! Not yet more typical senile blather on all these groups! tsk

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"Thats because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:
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On Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:00:13 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Dave W wrote:
That entirely depends on the type of headlight. Projector types - with a
bulls eye in front of the bulb - are very tolerant of bulb type.
Tungsten, HID or LED all give a similar and well controlled beam pattern.

You'll see that demonstrated on U Tube if you're interested.


I would dispute that - some cars give a dazzling blue side spill due
to the non-achromatic lens.


If it gives a dazzling side spill, that will show up in the beam pattern?

Most of these projector lights produce a spike of light to the left which
lights up the side of the road way beyond the range of the main part of
the dip. If a car is parked on the wrong side of the road, headlights on,
oncoming cars get the full force of that spike.
--


I was talking about oncoming cars. The main beam may be dipped, but I
get the blue spill just as they're passing.
--
Dave W
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On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 10:30:54 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

.....
I was annoyed when our B road street lamps were fitted with LED
replacement lamps. Much too bright in my view and not directional (I
understood that the previous sodium fittings had a lens which directed
most of the light in the direction of travel).
Coming home after 11pm yesterday, I was amused to note they are now as
dim as tired tungsten:-)

Perhaps they were deliberately dimmed to save money? My local
streetlamps are switched off completely at 1am.
--
Dave W
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In article ,
Dave W wrote:
I was annoyed when our B road street lamps were fitted with LED
replacement lamps. Much too bright in my view and not directional (I
understood that the previous sodium fittings had a lens which directed
most of the light in the direction of travel).
Coming home after 11pm yesterday, I was amused to note they are now as
dim as tired tungsten:-)

Perhaps they were deliberately dimmed to save money? My local
streetlamps are switched off completely at 1am.


They are on all night here like in most of London, but dimmed after a
certain time.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Sunday, 9 February 2020 11:19:29 UTC, Dave W wrote:


I was talking about oncoming cars. The main beam may be dipped, but I
get the blue spill just as they're passing.


Sometimes the blueness is strong enough to make me double-check it is not an emergency vehicle.



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On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52


Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber night
driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber clip-ons, and
I find them very effective in reducing the glare of blueish HID and LED
headlamps.


I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally. I've
never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough already. I
probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with perfect
unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.
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On 09/02/2020 09:08, polygonum_on_google wrote:
I can happily say that our exterior lights are 2.5 watt (or very
close), and timed to a pretty short period. Perfectly adequate for
our normal purposes. (We do have four - front, two along the side,
back.


I can happily say that my exterior lights are not timed and are not used
unless I am out at night or am actually sitting outside at night

They barely hit the drive, let alone the road.
I have no neighbours

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.
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In message , Dave W
writes
On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 10:30:54 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

....
I was annoyed when our B road street lamps were fitted with LED
replacement lamps. Much too bright in my view and not directional (I
understood that the previous sodium fittings had a lens which directed
most of the light in the direction of travel).
Coming home after 11pm yesterday, I was amused to note they are now as
dim as tired tungsten:-)

Perhaps they were deliberately dimmed to save money? My local
streetlamps are switched off completely at 1am.


Perhaps. I'll check at other times.

--
Tim Lamb
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In message , Richard
writes
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52

Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED headlamps.


I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.


Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries. My astigmatism doubles
point sources at night.

--
Tim Lamb
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On 09/02/2020 15:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard
writes
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52
*Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night* driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and* I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED* headlamps.


I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.


Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries. My astigmatism doubles
point sources at night.

You can get glasses for astigmatism.



--
It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.
Sir Roger Scruton


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On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52


Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED headlamps.


I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally. I've
never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough already. I
probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with perfect
unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.


The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous band
that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of billions of
stars..." If someone claims to be able to see the individual stars in
the Milky Way either (a) they don't know what it is or (b) they have
/very/ big eyes.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
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On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52

Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED headlamps.


I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.


The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous band
that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of billions of
stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the individual stars in
the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it is or (b) they have
/very/ big eyes.


In e.g. Africa you can see *some* of the individual stars. By definition
they are close to us





--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.
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On 09/02/2020 16:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52

Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED headlamps.

I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are
not visible with my prescription.


The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous
band that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of
billions of stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the
individual stars in the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it
is or (b) they have /very/ big eyes.


In e.g. Africa you can see *some* of the individual stars. By definition
they are close to us


If you can resolve a star with your naked eye it is by the traditional
definition I quoted /not/ part of the Milk Way. In order to include
such stars you need to define the Milky Way as (a) all stars in the
galactic plane or (b) our galaxy. I've not seen (a). OTOH (b) is a
common second meaning now - as eg:

"The Milky Way is the galaxy that contains our Solar System, with the
name describing the galaxy's appearance from Earth: a hazy band of light
seen in the night sky formed from stars that cannot be individually
distinguished by the naked eye."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
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On 09/02/2020 12:52, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Sunday, 9 February 2020 11:19:29 UTC, Dave W wrote:


I was talking about oncoming cars. The main beam may be dipped, but I
get the blue spill just as they're passing.


Sometimes the blueness is strong enough to make me double-check it is not an emergency vehicle.

who was it that kept telling me blue headlights were illegal ? ...
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On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52

Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED headlamps.


I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.


The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous band
that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of billions of
stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the individual stars in
the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it is or (b) they have
/very/ big eyes.


Whatever the description, I cannot see with my own eyes the details in
the night sky that other people with good eyesight can.


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On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:


FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are not
visible with my prescription.


I've never seen it, probably because I've never attempted to see it
anywhere dark enough.

The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous band
that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of billions of
stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the individual stars in
the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it is or (b) they have
/very/ big eyes.


Presumably it's visible because we are looking across the disc of the
galaxy where there are a lot of stars in the same direction. There must
be stars in the same direction near enough to be seen individually; why
shouldn't they be said to be "in the Milky Way"?

--
Max Demian
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On 09/02/2020 17:55, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:


FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are
not visible with my prescription.


I've never seen it, probably because I've never attempted to see it
anywhere dark enough.

The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous
band that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of
billions of stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the
individual stars in the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it
is or (b) they have /very/ big eyes.


Presumably it's visible because we are looking across the disc of the
galaxy where there are a lot of stars in the same direction. There must
be stars in the same direction near enough to be seen individually; why
shouldn't they be said to be "in the Milky Way"?

Anyone can say that*. It just ain't the conventional meaning of the
term - viz. the band of light from stars that /can't/ be resolved with
the naked eye.

*I ought to add "unless the College of Policing have issued new guidance
on non-crime hate speech"


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
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On 09/02/2020 18:15, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 17:55, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:


FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than
in photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light
are not visible with my prescription.


I've never seen it, probably because I've never attempted to see it
anywhere dark enough.

The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous
band that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of
billions of stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the
individual stars in the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it
is or (b) they have /very/ big eyes.


Presumably it's visible because we are looking across the disc of the
galaxy where there are a lot of stars in the same direction. There
must be stars in the same direction near enough to be seen
individually; why shouldn't they be said to be "in the Milky Way"?

Anyone can say that*.* It just ain't the conventional meaning of the
term - viz. the band of light from stars that /can't/ be resolved with
the naked eye.

That is not the meaning I have always understood.


*I ought to add "unless the College of Policing have issued new guidance
on non-crime hate speech"




--
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.

Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles * M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie * Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire
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In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 09/02/2020 15:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard
writes
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52
*Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night* driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and* I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED* headlamps.

I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than
in photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light
are not visible with my prescription.

Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries. My astigmatism
doubles point sources at night.

You can get glasses for astigmatism.


Yes. I try to avoid wearing glasses for activities other than TV or
reading etc.

Specsavers supply a fresh pair every 2 years except last time they said
nothing had changed! I like to think this is a good thing:-)


--
Tim Lamb
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In message , Robin
writes
On 09/02/2020 17:55, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2020 16:19, Robin wrote:
On 09/02/2020 12:53, Richard wrote:


FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than
in photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light
are not visible with my prescription.

I've never seen it, probably because I've never attempted to see it
anywhere dark enough.

The OED defines the Milky Way as " The irregular, faintly luminous
band that circles the night sky, now recognized as composed of
billions of stars..."* If someone claims to be able to see the
individual stars in the Milky Way either (a)* they don't know what it
is or (b) they have /very/ big eyes.

Presumably it's visible because we are looking across the disc of
the galaxy where there are a lot of stars in the same direction.
There must be stars in the same direction near enough to be seen
individually; why shouldn't they be said to be "in the Milky Way"?

Anyone can say that*. It just ain't the conventional meaning of the
term - viz. the band of light from stars that /can't/ be resolved with
the naked eye.

*I ought to add "unless the College of Policing have issued new
guidance on non-crime hate speech"


Pedants:-)

Our Sun is situated in an outer limb of the galaxy. As has been said,
some nearby stars are resolvable. Andromeda, as another visible galaxy
only ever appears as a faint cloud of gas.

--
Tim Lamb


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On 09/02/2020 18:27, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 09/02/2020 15:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard
writes
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52
*Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night* driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and* I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED* headlamps.

I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than
in* photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light
are not* visible with my prescription.
*Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries. My astigmatism
doubles* point sources at night.

You can get glasses for astigmatism.


Yes. I try to avoid wearing glasses for activities other than TV or
reading etc.

not clever IMHO. I couldn't drive without them

Specsavers supply a fresh pair every 2 years except last time they said
nothing had changed! I like to think this is a good thing:-)




--
It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.
Sir Roger Scruton
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In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 09/02/2020 18:27, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 09/02/2020 15:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard
writes
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52
*Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that
amber night* driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use
amber clip-ons, and* I find them very effective in reducing the
glare of blueish HID and LED* headlamps.

I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than
in* photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light
are not* visible with my prescription.
*Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries. My astigmatism
doubles* point sources at night.

You can get glasses for astigmatism.

Yes. I try to avoid wearing glasses for activities other than TV or
reading etc.

not clever IMHO. I couldn't drive without them


Umm.. Officer, I can read a number plate at 20m in good light...
However, I am marginal at night with more lens exposed.

I find the frames interfere with peripheral vision. I guess someone used
to driving wearing glasses, turns their head more.

Specsavers supply a fresh pair every 2 years except last time they
said nothing had changed! I like to think this is a good thing:-)




--
Tim Lamb
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On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 15:06:23 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than

in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are

not
visible with my prescription.


Ah but the Milky Way isn't points of light it's a general slight
lightening of the otherwise the black sky.

Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries.


Why go that far? Provided it's clear you can't miss it here and
that's before your night vision has properly developed. Clear with
little moon light there are so many stars visible it makes finding
the constelations tricky, have to take my glasses off so I can only
see the brighter ones that make up the constelations. B-)

TBH I find it slightly disturbing when in a city and you can only see
half a dozen or so stars.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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On Sunday, 9 February 2020 20:43:51 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:

Umm.. Officer, I can read a number plate at 20m in good light...
However, I am marginal at night with more lens exposed.

I find the frames interfere with peripheral vision. I guess someone used
to driving wearing glasses, turns their head more.


I can see a number plate sufficiently in good light, but there is no way I would attempt to drive without my glasses.

Frames are not an issue. I wear frameless partly for this reason.


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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 09/02/2020 18:27, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 09/02/2020 15:06, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Richard
writes
On 09/02/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/02/2020 12:31:30, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2020 11:20, R D S wrote:
On 07/02/2020 11:47, John wrote:
Night driving....

I ask as an optician, wondering whether to punt these things to
people who complain about such....

Has anyone got any specialised night driving lenses?
Hoya En Route for example, or Zeiss Drivesafe.

I don't actively sell them as they are damned expensive and the
feedback I have heard is mixed at best.



Maybe this will help you decide:
https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52
Except I question their claim that there is no evidence that amber
night driving spectacles improve vision on the road. I use amber
clip-ons, and I find them very effective in reducing the glare of
blueish HID and LED headlamps.

I guess it all comes down to subjectivity. Perhaps your particular
visual capabilities are helped and the same doesn't apply globally.
I've never tried amber night driving specs as my specs cost enough
already. I probably am unaware of how lights appear to people with
perfect unassisted vision.
FWIW, I have never seen the milky way in all it's glory other than in
photos due to the simple fact that the smaller points of light are
not visible with my prescription.
Hard to miss from somewhere like the Canaries. My astigmatism doubles
point sources at night.

You can get glasses for astigmatism.
Yes. I try to avoid wearing glasses for activities other than TV or
reading etc.

not clever IMHO. I couldn't drive without them


Umm.. Officer, I can read a number plate at 20m in good light...
However, I am marginal at night with more lens exposed.


I find the frames interfere with peripheral vision.


Yeah, I have extreme peripheral vision.

I guess someone used to driving wearing glasses,


I wear them all the time.

turns their head more.


I don't because I don't need to resolve the
stuff that's past the frames, I only use that for
movement, not focus and I am short sighted.

Specsavers supply a fresh pair every 2 years except last time they said
nothing had changed! I like to think this is a good thing:-)



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