I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:23:58 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Aren't they just to provide a bit of resistance between the moving
parts of the caliper to stop them moving too easily?

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Assuming everything is sitting in the right place, then I think that
looks right, assuming the clips are the same design / size as the ones
you took out?

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before you
take it to bits). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 25/01/2020 21:15, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:23:58 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Aren't they just to provide a bit of resistance between the moving
parts of the caliper to stop them moving too easily?

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Assuming everything is sitting in the right place, then I think that
looks right, assuming the clips are the same design / size as the ones
you took out?


Thanks. They're the original clips - I didn't get new ones. [The Ebay
link was to show what the clips look like when not installed]

I'd still like to know what their function is. If, for example, it's to
damp lateral oscillations of the caliper on its carrier, it doesn't need
to be in contact with the pad. But if it's to push the pad away from the
end of the caliper when the brakes are not applied - which would, in
turn, retract the piston a bit and provide more clearance and less drag
between pads and disc - it *would* need to contact the pad. I just don't
know. It definitely doesn't retain anything. Nothing would fall off it
it wasn't there.

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before you
take it to bits). ;-)


Yes, I know - and I usually do. But I erroneously deemed it unnecessary
on this occasion!
--
Cheers,
Roger

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:49:05 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:
snip

Assuming everything is sitting in the right place, then I think that
looks right, assuming the clips are the same design / size as the ones
you took out?


Thanks. They're the original clips - I didn't get new ones. [The Ebay
link was to show what the clips look like when not installed]

I'd still like to know what their function is. If, for example, it's to
damp lateral oscillations of the caliper on its carrier, it doesn't need
to be in contact with the pad.

I believe that's their purpose. And to stop the floating caliper cover
from flopping about, assuming the pins allowed such etc.

But if it's to push the pad away from the
end of the caliper when the brakes are not applied - which would, in
turn, retract the piston a bit and provide more clearance and less drag
between pads and disc - it *would* need to contact the pad.

No, I don't believe it's for that Roger.

I just don't
know. It definitely doesn't retain anything. Nothing would fall off it
it wasn't there.

Quite. The only thing it might do is hold the caliper cover in place
when you undid the two retaining pins (but only while you were working
on it etc).

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before you
take it to bits). ;-)


Yes, I know - and I usually do. But I erroneously deemed it unnecessary
on this occasion!

Doh! ;-)

As mentioned, as long as everything else is in place then the clip
only needs to be pushed in till the main part was flush with the outer
part of the cover.

The key thing is that nothing would fail even if they weren't fitted,
they just keep the two caliper halves under a bit of tension / control
to stop them slopping about (as I don't believe the clips would resist
against much else).

A third opinion is a good thing though. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Saturday, 25 January 2020 20:24:05 UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Their purpose is "anti-squeal"
Stops high frequency vibration when the brakes are applied.
There are various designs

https://carsmobilemechanic.co.uk/bra...you-need-them/

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:42:30 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

snip

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Their purpose is "anti-squeal"
Stops high frequency vibration when the brakes are applied.
There are various designs

https://carsmobilemechanic.co.uk/bra...you-need-them/

Most 'anti-squeal' solutions go between the pad and caliper / piston
in some way.

I believe what Roger has there are more 'anti-rattle' clips that keep
a bit of tension between the two caliper components, stopping them and
the pads from clunking about as you go over bumps or steer etc
(although there is some crossover on some designs).


Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs. Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.

--
*No I haven't stolen it , I'm just a **** driver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/01/2020 22:49, Roger Mills wrote:
On 25/01/2020 21:15, T i m wrote:


Thanks. They're the original clips - I didn't get new ones. [The Ebay
link was to show what the clips look like when not installed]


Old ones may have deformed a bit over time. I never understood why this
happened at ordinary temperatures until I asked a very good metallurgist
from an automotive background. Even tempered carbon steel has
microcracks within the structure and you can get plastic deformation at
these sites that relieves local stresses.

Riders of old british motorbikes will know how valve springs shorten
over time. Inlets as well as exhausts, although the exhausts shorten
more. Car suspension springs also shorten a bit.

On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs. Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier? In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly. Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

--
Cheers,
Roger

On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 11:14:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs.

Yup.

Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.

Because they help keep the parts together there is less chance of any
rust / brake dust buildup holding the pads away from the rotor
slightly and then squealing?

Cheers, T i m

On 26/01/2020 10:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:23:58 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Aren't they meant to stop the shim that the caliper "floats" on from
floating away ?


Don't think so. There are no shims on my setup. The single piston
caliper can move sideways on its guide pins in order to centre the pads
on the disc. But no shims to "float away".
--
Cheers,
Roger

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips.
They are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug
into holes in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on
the caliper carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs.
Which may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier? In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly. Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

Just had a look - sorry, not familiar with that type of caliper.

--
*What happens when none of your bees wax? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:28:55 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs. Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier?

No, not really, as the pins are usually a close sliding fit and there
are often bellows to keep the dirt and dust out so they don't
(typically) wear that much (if maintained properly).

In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly.

Yes, assuming they are the right clips for that caliper (and the eBay
link suggested they were) then they can't really be fitted any other
way to do what they were designed to do..

Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

Yes. If the caliper bits were allowed to just float about and assuming
the piston(s) were very freely moving then you can get 'slack' in the
sandwich, allowing the pads and moving caliper component(s) to clatter
as you went over bumps and allow for more slack to take up when you
pressed the pedal. By providing a bit of resistance (the spring in the
clip), things stay together better and when the pads / rotor wear, the
looped ends of the clips can move (slide) to compensate.

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:28:55 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:
snip

You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier? In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly. Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

To potentially put your mind at rest, the following link should be to
a picture of a similar caliper with similar clips fitted to a Mazda:

https://s33.postimg.cc/r7vkx9sov/Aftermarket_side_1.jpg

And a Volvo:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlkTa0IoN4q0h0WgV99ekrLN1Q5S0Vz LxnXsiRgfTM3bvyXf1uIw&s

And an Audi:

https://www.audiforums.com/forum/attachments/diy-do-yourself-55/32082d1501219592-diy-b5-control-arms-tie-rod-end-assemblies-part-1-preparation-frontsuspension.jpg

https://www.audiforums.com/forum/attachments/diy-do-yourself-55/32083d1501219592-diy-b5-control-arms-tie-rod-end-assemblies-part-1-preparation-removeclip.jpg

HTH. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 26/01/2020 13:49, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:28:55 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs. Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier?

No, not really, as the pins are usually a close sliding fit and there
are often bellows to keep the dirt and dust out so they don't
(typically) wear that much (if maintained properly).

In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly.

Yes, assuming they are the right clips for that caliper (and the eBay
link suggested they were) then they can't really be fitted any other
way to do what they were designed to do..

Yes, they're the *original* clips. The Ebay link was just for
illustration - I haven't bought any.

Incidentally, buying brake bits for that car is slightly fraught because
Ford started fitting larger discs and pads part-way through 2000 - and
mine predates the change. The first set of discs and pads I bought were
too big, and I had to send them back. Presumably the calipers - and
probably the clips - changed at the same time

Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

Yes. If the caliper bits were allowed to just float about and assuming
the piston(s) were very freely moving then you can get 'slack' in the
sandwich, allowing the pads and moving caliper component(s) to clatter
as you went over bumps and allow for more slack to take up when you
pressed the pedal. By providing a bit of resistance (the spring in the
clip), things stay together better and when the pads / rotor wear, the
looped ends of the clips can move (slide) to compensate.


Yes, that makes sense - thanks.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 26/01/2020 14:19, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:28:55 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:
snip

You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier? In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly. Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

To potentially put your mind at rest, the following link should be to
a picture of a similar caliper with similar clips fitted to a Mazda:

https://s33.postimg.cc/r7vkx9sov/Aftermarket_side_1.jpg

And a Volvo:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlkTa0IoN4q0h0WgV99ekrLN1Q5S0Vz LxnXsiRgfTM3bvyXf1uIw&s

And an Audi:

https://www.audiforums.com/forum/attachments/diy-do-yourself-55/32082d1501219592-diy-b5-control-arms-tie-rod-end-assemblies-part-1-preparation-frontsuspension.jpg

https://www.audiforums.com/forum/attachments/diy-do-yourself-55/32083d1501219592-diy-b5-control-arms-tie-rod-end-assemblies-part-1-preparation-removeclip.jpg

HTH. ;-)

Cheers, T i m


Thanks for those links. The Mazda looks very much like mine - and the
others are quite similar.

I reckon mine are ok - and I'll stop worrying about them!
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 25/01/2020 20:23:58, Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Youtube is a good resource for reference.

Look at 50s into this, it's for a Ford Focus but looks the same as yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNT3Sa0pFM

On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:09:04 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 26/01/2020 13:49, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:28:55 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs. Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier?

No, not really, as the pins are usually a close sliding fit and there
are often bellows to keep the dirt and dust out so they don't
(typically) wear that much (if maintained properly).

In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly.

Yes, assuming they are the right clips for that caliper (and the eBay
link suggested they were) then they can't really be fitted any other
way to do what they were designed to do..

Yes, they're the *original* clips.

Well, unless you have had the car from new and only serviced it
yourself (or never had it serviced) how can you be sure they are the
original clips (and my point etc).

The Ebay link was just for
illustration - I haven't bought any.

I know, you said. ;-)

Incidentally, buying brake bits for that car is slightly fraught because
Ford started fitting larger discs and pads part-way through 2000 - and
mine predates the change. The first set of discs and pads I bought were
too big, and I had to send them back. Presumably the calipers - and
probably the clips - changed at the same time

Whilst I've always liked Fords (and built the kitcar from one) ...
they had a reputation for (supposedly) using whatever bits were
available at the time. ;-)

Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]

Yes. If the caliper bits were allowed to just float about and assuming
the piston(s) were very freely moving then you can get 'slack' in the
sandwich, allowing the pads and moving caliper component(s) to clatter
as you went over bumps and allow for more slack to take up when you
pressed the pedal. By providing a bit of resistance (the spring in the
clip), things stay together better and when the pads / rotor wear, the
looped ends of the clips can move (slide) to compensate.


Yes, that makes sense - thanks.

You are welcome.

Cheers, T i m

On 26/01/2020 12:28, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs.
Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier? In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly. Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]


I think the wire loop at the upper end could do with being pushed a bit
further in.

On 25/01/2020 20:23, Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

That spring wire pulls the caliper toward its bracket, taking up any
play on the sliding pins, and stops the caliper shaking about. It does
not touch the pad. New ones are easily obtained, running without them
will not stop the brakes working, but you might get sqeal or shudder.

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:49:05 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before
you
take it to bits). ;-)

Yes, I know - and I usually do. But I erroneously deemed it unnecessary
on this occasion!

Fall back to examination of the removed bits for marks left where
bits contact each other.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 26/01/2020 16:03, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:09:04 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:



Yes, they're the *original* clips.

Well, unless you have had the car from new and only serviced it
yourself (or never had it serviced) how can you be sure they are the
original clips (and my point etc).


True. However, we *have* had the car from new and its only done about
35,000 miles in its 20 year life. I haven't serviced it myself, but know
that the discs and/or pads haven't previously been replaced - so there's
no reason why the clips would have been replaced.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 27/01/2020 07:52, Peter Hill wrote:
On 26/01/2020 12:28, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/01/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into
holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:


They're not retaining clips. They are correctly anti-rattle springs.
Which
may also reduce the chances of brake squeal.


You mean that they stop the caliper from rattling on its carrier? In
that case, mine are probably fitted correctly. Do they look ok to you?
[Link to photo in my original post]


I think the wire loop at the upper end could do with being pushed a bit
further in.

I agree that it looks that way - but if I try, it pivots on the caliper
and starts to push the raw end out of its hole. It should move further
in as the pads wear - but may take a while. the previous ones lasted 20
years!
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 27/01/2020 09:45, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:49:05 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before
you
take it to bits). ;-)

Yes, I know - and I usually do. But I erroneously deemed it unnecessary
on this occasion!

Fall back to examination of the removed bits for marks left where
bits contact each other.


Trouble is that, after fitting new pads, the caliper and its carrier end
up in different relative position. So a photo may not have helped anyway.

But many thanks to all who have replied. I now feel happy that they're ok.

[The discs and pads were an "advisory" in the previous MOT (last March)
so I have replaced them myself at an all-in cost of £35 rather than
paying the garage about £200 to do it. I don't want them to be able to
criticise what I've done when they MOT it this March].
--
Cheers,
Roger

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:52:31 -0000, Roger Mills wrote:

On 27/01/2020 09:45, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:49:05 +0000, Roger Mills wrote:

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before
you
take it to bits). ;-)

Yes, I know - and I usually do. But I erroneously deemed it unnecessary
on this occasion!

Fall back to examination of the removed bits for marks left where
bits contact each other.


Trouble is that, after fitting new pads, the caliper and its carrier end
up in different relative position. So a photo may not have helped anyway.

But many thanks to all who have replied. I now feel happy that they're ok.

[The discs and pads were an "advisory" in the previous MOT (last March)
so I have replaced them myself at an all-in cost of £35 rather than
paying the garage about £200 to do it. I don't want them to be able to
criticise what I've done when they MOT it this March].

You fixed something before it was required?! I'd have waited to see if it was upgraded from advisory to "must" on the next MOT.

On 26 Jan 2020 at 15:32:55 GMT, "Fredxx" wrote:

On 25/01/2020 20:23:58, Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Youtube is a good resource for reference.

Look at 50s into this, it's for a Ford Focus but looks the same as yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNT3Sa0pFM

Good guide - and the end of the video shows the clip is not in contact with
the pad. Very odd section on bleeding the brakes . . .

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:38:16 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 26/01/2020 16:03, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:09:04 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:



Yes, they're the *original* clips.

Well, unless you have had the car from new and only serviced it
yourself (or never had it serviced) how can you be sure they are the
original clips (and my point etc).


True.

Phew, we got there in the end. ;-)

I was making the point because it's dangerous to assuming that because
you found something some way that was the way it was intended to be,
*unless* you can minimise that by knowing it had come out of the
factory like that (but it's still possibly it was incorrect from the
factory etc (hence recalls etc)). 'Original clips' could have meant
they hadn't been replaced by you / this time round (and hence the
qualification).

However, we *have* had the car from new and its only done about
35,000 miles in its 20 year life. I haven't serviced it myself, but know
that the discs and/or pads haven't previously been replaced - so there's
no reason why the clips would have been replaced.

Agreed. So that's *officially* another question we can (probably)
cross off the list then. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 25/01/2020 21:15, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:23:58 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Aren't they just to provide a bit of resistance between the moving
parts of the caliper to stop them moving too easily?

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Assuming everything is sitting in the right place, then I think that
looks right, assuming the clips are the same design / size as the ones
you took out?

Your digital camera is your friend on this sort of thing (before you
take it to bits). ;-)

Doing one side at a time is even better - a full, 3d item to inspect
from all angles and copy!

SteveW

On 27/01/2020 17:14:25, RJH wrote:
On 26 Jan 2020 at 15:32:55 GMT, "Fredxx" wrote:

On 25/01/2020 20:23:58, Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Youtube is a good resource for reference.

Look at 50s into this, it's for a Ford Focus but looks the same as yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNT3Sa0pFM

Good guide - and the end of the video shows the clip is not in contact with
the pad. Very odd section on bleeding the brakes . . .

I did think the bleeding of brakes was a little short of the mark. Also
very little fluid came out after unscrewing the caliper implying the
pipe was clamped somewhere.

I have used gravity to bleed brakes with a lot of success. It very much
depends on the vehicle.

Also no torquing done on those sliding bolts.

On 27/01/2020 17:14, RJH wrote:
On 26 Jan 2020 at 15:32:55 GMT, "Fredxx" wrote:

On 25/01/2020 20:23:58, Roger Mills wrote:
I've just replaced the front discs and pads on my wife's 20-year-old
Ford Puma, and I have a query about the so called retaining clips. They
are made of highly tempered steel wire and the free ends plug into holes
in the caliper. They have loops which hook behind lugs on the caliper
carrier. They look like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292224457537?ul_noapp=true

According to my Haynes Fiesta manual (Haynes don't do a Puma manual, but
the running gear is the same as a 1995-onwards Fiesta) they look like
this when fitted:

https://app.box.com/s/jelr78aedt1uandeka74e05dnqjc8bq8

Anyone know what their function is? Is the middle bit supposed to
contact the back of the pad? Mine don't - by 2 or 3 mm - see:

https://app.box.com/s/b8vaov18obat0kvldauu8bzt5r16vjrx

Sadly, I didn't make a careful enough note of what they originally
looked like before I removed them. I wonder whether I have put them back
correctly - but I can't see any other way they could go. The loops look
as if they should go further onto the lugs - but if I tap the free ends
further into the holes, they pivot on the caliper body and the loops
move *outwards* rather than inwards.

Any informed comment will be greatly appreciated.

Youtube is a good resource for reference.

Look at 50s into this, it's for a Ford Focus but looks the same as yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNT3Sa0pFM

Good guide - and the end of the video shows the clip is not in contact with
the pad. Very odd section on bleeding the brakes . . .



Bleeding?! I wouldn't drive that car after what he did - would you?

I'm not sure how usual it is to replace just the caliper, retaining the
old disc and pads.

But as far as removing and re-fitting the spring goes, it was good!
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 28/01/2020 10:55, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm not sure how usual it is to replace just the caliper, retaining the
old disc and pads.

If they are in good nick why not?


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 28/01/2020 11:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 10:55, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm not sure how usual it is to replace just the caliper, retaining
the old disc and pads.

If they are in good nick why not?



Under what circumstances would you replace the caliper? Surely, unless
it was physically broken - which that one didn't appear to be - it would
be cheaper to refurbish it with new seals, etc.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 12:02:53 +0000, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 28/01/2020 11:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 10:55, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm not sure how usual it is to replace just the caliper, retaining
the old disc and pads.

If they are in good nick why not?



Under what circumstances would you replace the caliper?

Seized / worn piston(s). Scored bore / Leaking?

Surely, unless
it was physically broken - which that one didn't appear to be - it would
be cheaper to refurbish it with new seals, etc.

Wasn't there some talk of changing the rules re d-i-y brake
refurbishment?

Many garages won't refurb because it's often cheaper to replace (in
labour terms) and less risk to them should something go wrong.

Cheers, T i m

On 28/01/2020 12:02, Roger Mills wrote:
On 28/01/2020 11:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 10:55, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm not sure how usual it is to replace just the caliper, retaining
the old disc and pads.

If they are in good nick why not?



Under what circumstances would you replace the caliper? Surely, unless
it was physically broken - which that one didn't appear to be - it would
be cheaper to refurbish it with new seals, etc.

Not nowadays, most calipers are quite cheap, and the skills needed to
rebuild one properly are sadly lacking. The last ones I remember doing
needed 8 pistons plus seals, over two hundred quids worth 20 years ago.

Same with most parts now, cheaper to buy a unit than fix the old.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Many garages won't refurb because it's often cheaper to replace (in
labour terms) and less risk to them should something go wrong.

And many garages don't seem to have mechanics anymore - merely fitters of
new parts.

What makes sense to someone paying £150 an hour labour may be total
nonsense to a competent DIYer.

--
*Why isn't there a special name for the back of your knee?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Many garages won't refurb because it's often cheaper to replace (in
labour terms) and less risk to them should something go wrong.

And many garages don't seem to have mechanics anymore - merely fitters of
new parts.

What makes sense to someone paying £150 an hour labour may be total
nonsense to a competent DIYer.

I still have a set seals for a Riello oil burner pump off my old boiler.
I was going to repair the spare, but got a new pump for speed and
reliability of repair, in midwinter. Since then the boiler failed.
But if it hadn't been so cold I think I could have saved about 50 GBP.
--

Roger Hayter

On 28/01/2020 12:02, Roger Mills wrote:
On 28/01/2020 11:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/01/2020 10:55, Roger Mills wrote:
I'm not sure how usual it is to replace just the caliper, retaining
the old disc and pads.

If they are in good nick why not?



Under what circumstances would you replace the caliper? Surely, unless
it was physically broken - which that one didn't appear to be - it would
be cheaper to refurbish it with new seals, etc.

It can be as cheap to replace sometimes. I bought a pair for my kitcar
and as a company was selling off old stock, it cost me less than £25 for
two brand new calipers!

When one of the calipers on my wife's car seized, it was time that was
the decider. A refurb kit would have taken two or three days to arrive,
but I could pick up another caliper in an hour.

SteveW