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On 23/01/2020 18:50, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Imagine you are the designer of this logic. It must be a nightmare. I'm sure
there is some logic to all of this, but it passes me by. All I know is that
rear fog lights can dazzle the following drivers.
Brian

so why bother commenting?...stick to driving you couch ....
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On 24/01/2020 00:06, Brian Reay wrote:
NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Yes.

They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need them
when the engine is off!

Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear fog
lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled by
them"?


Oh dear....


Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem to
use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).

Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its speed
limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite thick fog,
subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.



Perhaps you should stop digging.


Did my similar question* yesterday not reach you or do you argue that

it's similarly not deserving of a substantive reply?

*"Why not in towns? I can't see anything in the Regulations or HC that
distinguishes them from any other location."


--
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reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
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On Friday, 24 January 2020 07:32:21 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 20:36, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 12:04:20 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned off?....


Anyone ever fully understood why we only have one high intensity rear fog lamp?

some very old buses have ONE rear light and it is still legal to have
them on the road and it is not an MOT failure....


I understand that rules for old vehicles are different, but on a vehicle which otherwise has a full set of lights on both sides, it seems odd to allow a single HIRF.
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"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
My Mustang doesn't have reversing lights and this is quite legal as it
wasn't made a requirement until quite recently......


I remember going to pick up my sister from a party which was down a long
unlit farm track. I was in my mum's car which was old enough that it didn't
have reversing lights or rear fog lights. When I got to the end of the road
there was nowhere to turn round. With only the tail lights for illumination,
I had to reverse what seemed like a very long way along a narrow twisty lane
until I eventually found a gateway where I could turn. The car was so
underpowered that it needed my foot on the throttle all the time I was
reversing, otherwise I'd have pressed the footbrake just far enough to put
on the brighter brake lights.

Nowadays we take reversing lights as standard and we rely on them - even if
they are a single anaemic glow-worm of light, as on my present car.

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"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 January 2020 07:32:21 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 20:36, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 12:04:20 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Anyone ever fully understood why we only have one high intensity rear
fog lamp?

some very old buses have ONE rear light and it is still legal to have
them on the road and it is not an MOT failure....


I understand that rules for old vehicles are different, but on a vehicle
which otherwise has a full set of lights on both sides, it seems odd to
allow a single HIRF.


I agree. The lighting regulations baffle me: they allow a single rear fog
light and yet you can be prosecuted for having a "single" tail light (due to
a bulb failure). And they allow indicators which are very close to (and
therefore masked by) headlights or brake lights. Some VW Golfs are guilty of
the rear indicator which is almost invisible when the driver brakes. Almost
every car made in the last 30 years has its front indicators in the same
housing as the headlights and so very hard to see at night on an oncoming
car.



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On 24/01/2020 08:34, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
My Mustang doesn't have reversing lights and this is quite legal as it
wasn't made a requirement until quite recently......


I remember going to pick up my sister from a party which was down a long
unlit farm track. I was in my mum's car which was old enough that it
didn't have reversing lights or rear fog lights. When I got to the end
of the road there was nowhere to turn round. With only the tail lights
for illumination, I had to reverse what seemed like a very long way
along a narrow twisty lane until I eventually found a gateway where I
could turn. The car was so underpowered that it needed my foot on the
throttle all the time I was reversing, otherwise I'd have pressed the
footbrake just far enough to put on the brighter brake lights.

Nowadays we take reversing lights as standard and we rely on them - even
if they are a single anaemic glow-worm of light, as on my present car.

can't say I have ever had reversing lights that were any good for seeing
were you were reversing.....
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On 24/01/2020 08:20, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 07:32:21 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 20:36, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 12:04:20 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned off?....

Anyone ever fully understood why we only have one high intensity rear fog lamp?

some very old buses have ONE rear light and it is still legal to have
them on the road and it is not an MOT failure....


I understand that rules for old vehicles are different, but on a vehicle which otherwise has a full set of lights on both sides, it seems odd to allow a single HIRF.

Why?

rear lights are there to signal teh presence of anpother vehicle or the
intentions of the one its on.

Indicators are one at a time. Plenty of brake lights are in threes. It
is only a question of ensuriong that teh vehicle witdh is known that
means we generally have two rear riding lights.

One high intensity fog lamp that can cut through to a greater range is
better than two that can't. Peak power is what you want here.


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

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On Friday, 24 January 2020 08:46:51 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2020 08:20, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Friday, 24 January 2020 07:32:21 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 20:36, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 12:04:20 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned off?....

Anyone ever fully understood why we only have one high intensity rear fog lamp?

some very old buses have ONE rear light and it is still legal to have
them on the road and it is not an MOT failure....


I understand that rules for old vehicles are different, but on a vehicle which otherwise has a full set of lights on both sides, it seems odd to allow a single HIRF.

Why?

rear lights are there to signal teh presence of anpother vehicle or the
intentions of the one its on.

Indicators are one at a time. Plenty of brake lights are in threes. It
is only a question of ensuriong that teh vehicle witdh is known that
means we generally have two rear riding lights.

One high intensity fog lamp that can cut through to a greater range is
better than two that can't. Peak power is what you want here.


Indicators are a false comparison as their functionality is achieved by only lighting on one side. (You wouldn't be allowed to fir indicators on one side only, would you?)

I don't think anyone is suggesting any reduction in peak power output from any HIRF. Just that a single light doesn't give as much help as a pair. Especially when the vehicle is being driven on the wrong side of the road (as in, LHD car on RHD road or vice versa).

Potentially, having one each side could give much better visibility to the side than a single lamp.
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On 23/01/2020 18:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....


Yes.


They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need
them when the engine is off!


Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear
fog lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled
by them"?


Oh dear....


Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem
to use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).


Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its
speed limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite
thick fog, subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.


excuse brian it is just the way he is ......


He can't help pontificating, but really doesn't like being caught out.

And don't ask what happened to his 'Parking' crusade....


--
Spike

In the Climate Change belief system, only the future is certain,
but the past is constantly changing.
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On 24/01/2020 09:09, Spike wrote:
On 23/01/2020 18:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....


Yes.


They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need
them when the engine is off!


Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear
fog lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled
by them"?


Oh dear....


Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem
to use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).


Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its
speed limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite
thick fog, subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.


excuse brian it is just the way he is ......


He can't help pontificating, but really doesn't like being caught out.

And don't ask what happened to his 'Parking' crusade....


what happened brian? ....


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And they allow indicators which are very close
to (and therefore masked by) headlights or brake lights. Some VW Golfs
are guilty of the rear indicator which is almost invisible when the
driver brakes. Almost every car made in the last 30 years has its front
indicators in the same housing as the headlights and so very hard to see
at night on an oncoming car.


spot on the worse ones are the indicator in the middle of the circular
parking light.....but loads of front indicators are away from the
headlights though..... also LEDs shouldn't be allowed on cars.....
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On 24/01/2020 09:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Â*And they allow indicators which are very close
to (and therefore masked by) headlights or brake lights. Some VW Golfs
are guilty of the rear indicator which is almost invisible when the
driver brakes. Almost every car made in the last 30 years has its
front indicators in the same housing as the headlights and so very
hard to see at night on an oncoming car.


spot on the worse ones are the indicator in the middle of the circular
parking light.....but loads of front indicators are away from the
headlights though..... also LEDs shouldn't be allowed on cars.....


DRLs should also be banned...stupid dazzling things....
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On Friday, 24 January 2020 09:16:47 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 24/01/2020 09:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Â*And they allow indicators which are very close
to (and therefore masked by) headlights or brake lights. Some VW Golfs
are guilty of the rear indicator which is almost invisible when the
driver brakes. Almost every car made in the last 30 years has its
front indicators in the same housing as the headlights and so very
hard to see at night on an oncoming car.


spot on the worse ones are the indicator in the middle of the circular
parking light.....but loads of front indicators are away from the
headlights though..... also LEDs shouldn't be allowed on cars.....


DRLs should also be banned...stupid dazzling things....


If you find them dazzling, do you by any chance have a problem with your eyes?

I have been very happy to see them on all manner of vehicles in situations where sight of the vehicle might othrwise have been impaired. Do remember that they can make a big difference when going from bright sun to stygian blackness of a bridge. And, when cycling, I have found it much more difficult to see and maintain awareness of vehicles behind me when they are grey (current top colour), and the weather is grey, and the road is grey... DRLs help a lot.
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On Friday, 24 January 2020 09:15:19 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


spot on the worse ones are the indicator in the middle of the circular
parking light.....but loads of front indicators are away from the
headlights though..... also LEDs shouldn't be allowed on cars.....


Some appalling designs. There is a particular roundabout near home where the left indicator can be very difficult to see on vehicles coming round - hence difficult to be sure whether they are indicating to leave the roundabout or carrying on round.

Sunshine on reflective bits inside light clusters can play havoc with visibility.

On my car, the DRL switches off and the indicator alone lights - which makes it exceedingly obvious. And, although bright, they seem not to be dazzling. (I report my impression of the same.simlar model being driven by others. Obviously my own perception of my own car when driving it is not significant.)
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"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...

DRLs should also be banned...stupid dazzling things....


If you find them dazzling, do you by any chance have a problem with your
eyes?

I have been very happy to see them on all manner of vehicles in situations
where sight of the vehicle might othrwise have been impaired. Do remember
that they can make a big difference when going from bright sun to stygian
blackness of a bridge. And, when cycling, I have found it much more
difficult to see and maintain awareness of vehicles behind me when they
are grey (current top colour), and the weather is grey, and the road is
grey... DRLs help a lot.


I agree: DRLs are a *very* important safety improvement in making cars more
visible in conditions where the driver would not normally have their lights
(either side or head) on. The shady sunlight situation (eg going into dense
woodland) is a case in point. Motorcyclists have long used their headlights
as normal running lights, and it's time that other vehicles did the same,
which is what DRLs are for.

I don't find them too bright - no more so than headlights during the day,
and you only see them for a short time as an oncoming car passes you. At
night they dim or even go out when the headlights are on. Even at dusk, when
it's still light enough for headlights to be of marginal benefit (as a means
of illuminating the road), DRLs dim to an appropriate level.

What I *do* find very dazzling is cars that keep their brake lights on all
the time that they are stationary in a queue. And because the car in front
is going in the same direction as you, it's there "forever", not just as a
passing vehicle. If I'm stopped in traffic, I do as I was taught ("footbrake
to stop; handbrake to *stay* stopped") and come off my footbrake as soon as
I can, to avoid dazzling the car behind me. The only exception is when I'm
stopped in the middle of the road in a turning-right bay, when I keep my
brake lights on until I see a car pulling behind me to turn right, when I
come off the brake to avoid dazzling. That's because I'm more vulnerable to
being rear-ended by a fast car that hasn't seen me as it goes to overtake
another car; that happened to my sister in America when they lived the
she was stopped to turn left, with her indicator and brake lights on, and
was rear-ended (luckily at low speed) by someone who was overtaking *at a
junction* and hadn't seen her.

Sadly, more and more drivers use their footbrake all the time that they are
stopped - do they even know where the handbrake is? I suspect the worst
culprits are those with automatic transmission who stay in Drive with the
footbrake on to prevent them creeping forwards, rather than knocking it into
neutral until they are about to set off again.



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"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 January 2020 09:15:19 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:


spot on the worse ones are the indicator in the middle of the circular
parking light.....but loads of front indicators are away from the
headlights though..... also LEDs shouldn't be allowed on cars.....


Some appalling designs. There is a particular roundabout near home where
the left indicator can be very difficult to see on vehicles coming round -
hence difficult to be sure whether they are indicating to leave the
roundabout or carrying on round.

Sunshine on reflective bits inside light clusters can play havoc with
visibility.

On my car, the DRL switches off and the indicator alone lights - which
makes it exceedingly obvious. And, although bright, they seem not to be
dazzling. (I report my impression of the same.simlar model being driven by
others. Obviously my own perception of my own car when driving it is not
significant.)


Yes there are some cars where the temporary absence of a DRL on one side is
more noticeable than the flashing of an amber indicator. That suggests a
problem with the visibility of the indicator...

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"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2020 08:34, NY wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
My Mustang doesn't have reversing lights and this is quite legal as it
wasn't made a requirement until quite recently......


I remember going to pick up my sister from a party which was down a long
unlit farm track. I was in my mum's car which was old enough that it
didn't have reversing lights or rear fog lights. When I got to the end of
the road there was nowhere to turn round. With only the tail lights for
illumination, I had to reverse what seemed like a very long way along a
narrow twisty lane until I eventually found a gateway where I could turn.
The car was so underpowered that it needed my foot on the throttle all
the time I was reversing, otherwise I'd have pressed the footbrake just
far enough to put on the brighter brake lights.

Nowadays we take reversing lights as standard and we rely on them - even
if they are a single anaemic glow-worm of light, as on my present car.

can't say I have ever had reversing lights that were any good for seeing
were you were reversing.....


But that's what they are there for (as well as to tell the car behind that
you are about to reverse). In the dark, where there are no street lights,
they and your tail lights (and temporarily, brake lights) are the only
illumination on the road that you are reversing in, to locate hazards such
as gateposts/hedges/walls, and to see where the kerb goes if the road bends.

My VW Golfs and my Peugeot 306s had bright, double reversing lights and lit
the road up well enough to see reflections off gateposts. My present Peugot
308 has a single light which seems not to be as bright and which only
illuminates a gatepost on the nearside, so seeing one on the offside is more
difficult. For some reason, my brake lights seem to provide more
illumination than my reversing light, despite both being (presumably) 21 W,
and despite the brake lights losing some light because of the red "glass".

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Indicators are one at a time. Plenty of brake lights are in threes. It is
only a question of ensuriong that teh vehicle witdh is known that means we
generally have two rear riding lights.

One high intensity fog lamp that can cut through to a greater range is
better than two that can't. Peak power is what you want here.


True, but in thick fog you see a single red light that could be *any*
distance away until you get close enough (too close, sometimes) to see the
dim tail lights. That's why I maintain that fog lights should be treated as
bright tail lights, showing not only the presence of the car in front but
also give a clue about its distance away, inferred from the apparent spacing
of the lights.

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On 24/01/2020 00:06:31, Brian Reay wrote:
NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Yes.

They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need them
when the engine is off!

Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear fog
lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled by
them"?


Oh dear....


Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem to
use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).

Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its speed
limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite thick fog,
subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.



Perhaps you should stop digging.


Perhaps you could provide the source for your claims?

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On 24/01/2020 11:18, NY wrote:
Sadly, more and more drivers use their footbrake all the time that they
are stopped - do they even know where the handbrake is? I suspect the
worst culprits are those with automatic transmission who stay in Drive
with the footbrake on to prevent them creeping forwards, rather than
knocking it into neutral until they are about to set off again.


The use of the handbrake is mandatory in a clutched car. Your left foot
has to be on the clutch and the right on the accelerator.
In the case of an automatioc its almost the exact opposite. You have to
learn to left foot brake to control the car in the same way you can a
clutched car: that is, fixed accelerator and then control uptake on the
left foot by releasing the brake insietd of the clutch.

My current car has an electric motorised handbrake. It's called a
'parking brake' and thats ALL it is designed for, and its riddy awkward
to iuse in a traffic queue on a slope as it takes an appreciable time to
disengage


--
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In article ,
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 20:36, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 12:04:20 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned off?....


Anyone ever fully understood why we only have one high intensity rear fog lamp?

some very old buses have ONE rear light and it is still legal to have
them on the road and it is not an MOT failure....


Do buses have an MOT, as such?

The legislation requiring two tail lights - brought in about 1950 - was
one of the few bits of retrospective legislation. Requiring all old cars
to be modified from one to two.

Town buses may have been excepted.

I'd be surprised if that applied to a non still in service bus though.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
One high intensity fog lamp that can cut through to a greater range is
better than two that can't. Peak power is what you want here.


Rear fog in tungsten days use 21 watt bulbs. Same as stop lights and
indictors. Two isn't going to make any difference to the intensity.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:36:47 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/01/2020 00:06:31, Brian Reay wrote:
NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Yes.

They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need them
when the engine is off!

Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear fog
lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled by
them"?


Oh dear....

Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem to
use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).

Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its speed
limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite thick fog,
subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.



Perhaps you should stop digging.


Perhaps you could provide the source for your claims?


He won't (because he probably can't), it's his hit-n-run MO.

Cheers, T i m
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In article ,
NY wrote:
I agree: DRLs are a *very* important safety improvement in making cars
more visible in conditions where the driver would not normally have
their lights (either side or head) on.


Really? Most cars in London seem to switch headlights on in anything other
than mid day sun.

The real test is if you see the lights before the car.

Only real difference with DRL, is you can't forget to switch them on.

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"NY" wrote in message
...
"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 January 2020 07:32:21 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 23/01/2020 20:36, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Thursday, 23 January 2020 12:04:20 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Anyone ever fully understood why we only have one high intensity rear
fog lamp?

some very old buses have ONE rear light and it is still legal to have
them on the road and it is not an MOT failure....


I understand that rules for old vehicles are different, but on a vehicle
which otherwise has a full set of lights on both sides, it seems odd to
allow a single HIRF.


I agree. The lighting regulations baffle me: they allow a single rear fog
light and yet you can be prosecuted for having a "single" tail light (due
to a bulb failure). And they allow indicators which are very close to (and
therefore masked by) headlights or brake lights. Some VW Golfs are guilty
of the rear indicator which is almost invisible when the driver brakes.
Almost every car made in the last 30 years has its front indicators in the
same housing as the headlights and so very hard to see at night on an
oncoming car.


There is something unusual about your eyes. I dont get that effect with
the indicator being invisible when braking or being dazzled by people
stopped at the lights etc at night with their foot on the brake pedal
either.

Tho I spose you can make a case that car lights should be designed so
that those with eyes like yours dont have a problem. Hard to see how
to do that with the brake lights when stopped at night at the lights tho.



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On 24/01/2020 13:55, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:36:47 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/01/2020 00:06:31, Brian Reay wrote:
NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Yes.

They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need them
when the engine is off!

Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear fog
lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled by
them"?


Oh dear....

Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem to
use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).

Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its speed
limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite thick fog,
subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.



Perhaps you should stop digging.


Perhaps you could provide the source for your claims?


He won't (because he probably can't), it's his hit-n-run MO.

Cheers, T i m

that is brian...
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"polygonum_on_google" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 24 January 2020 09:16:47 UTC, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 24/01/2020 09:15, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
And they allow indicators which are very close
to (and therefore masked by) headlights or brake lights. Some VW Golfs
are guilty of the rear indicator which is almost invisible when the
driver brakes. Almost every car made in the last 30 years has its
front indicators in the same housing as the headlights and so very
hard to see at night on an oncoming car.

spot on the worse ones are the indicator in the middle of the circular
parking light.....but loads of front indicators are away from the
headlights though..... also LEDs shouldn't be allowed on cars.....


DRLs should also be banned...stupid dazzling things....


If you find them dazzling, do you by any chance have a problem with your
eyes?


Yeah, imo they clearly do. The PHucker and NY too.

I have been very happy to see them on all manner
of vehicles in situations where sight of the vehicle
might othrwise have been impaired.


I dont find that so much but they clearly
do make the vehicles much more visible.

Do remember that they can make a big difference when
going from bright sun to stygian blackness of a bridge.


I hardly ever see that effect.

We do have one mall underground carpark where
your eyes can take a moment to adjust when going
down the ramp into the carpark. And its got a very
tight corner at the end of that ramp and you do
need to be careful of a car coming back up.

And, when cycling, I have found it much more difficult
to see and maintain awareness of vehicles behind me
when they are grey (current top colour), and the
weather is grey, and the road is grey... DRLs help a lot.


Yeah, spose it would with the much poorer visibility of
whats behind with bikes.

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On 24/01/2020 08:42, NY wrote:
and so very hard to see at night on an oncoming car.

Are there no new or recently new cars where you drive? Modern cars with
LED lights do all kinds of tricks now so you can see better what the car
is doing.

Including but not limited to:
dimming/disabling DRL when indicators active
dimming/disabling headlamp when indicators active
animated indicators to attract attention
dimming/disabling rear light cluster when indicating.

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On 24/01/2020 10:37, polygonum_on_google wrote:
If you find them dazzling, do you by any chance have a problem with your eyes?


He has a problem in that he wears his wife's underwear.

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On 24/01/2020 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
My current car has an electric motorised handbrake. It's called a
'parking brake' and thats ALL it is designed for, and its riddy awkward
to iuse in a traffic queue on a slope as it takes an appreciable time to
disengage


It's faulty then. Previous car's electric brake engaged in under 0.5 secs.


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On 24/01/2020 11:18, NY wrote:

Sadly, more and more drivers use their footbrake all the time that they
are stopped - do they even know where the handbrake is?


You need to drive a modern automatic with stop start and then you'll
know why so many cars do not use the handbrake.

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On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned off?....


Should have posted for Mr Cheerful in uk.rec.cars.maintenance really.
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On 24/01/2020 07:45, Robin wrote:
On 24/01/2020 00:06, Brian Reay wrote:
NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Yes.

They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't
need them
when the engine is off!

Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear fog
lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled by
them"?


Oh dear....

Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people
seem to
use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).

Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its
speed
limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite thick
fog,
subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.



Perhaps you should stop digging.


Did my similar question* yesterday not reach you or do you argue that

it's similarly not deserving of a substantive reply?

*"Why not in towns?Â* I can't see anything in the Regulations or HC that
distinguishes them from any other location."



How would you know it was a town and not a large village?

--
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On 23/01/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 13:21, NY wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Is it OK for rear fog lights to go off when the ignition is turned
off?....

Yes.

They should only be used on certain types of road (plus other
conditions), not for example in towns etc. Therefore you don't need
them when the engine is off!

Is there actually any prohibition from using them on certain types of
road. I though the only rule was the obvious one of "turn off rear
fog lights when the following car is so close that it will be dazzled
by them"?



Oh dear....


Rather than tutting, perhaps you'd like to point me to the exact
regulations. OK, so I omitted to say "only use them when it's foggy",
because I thought that was blindingly obvious, though many people seem
to use them even when it's completely clear (not even light mist).

Is there something in the highway code about classes of road or its
speed limit which regulates when they may or may not be used, despite
thick fog, subject always to the "don't dazzle" rule.


Rule 226 of the Highway Code says don't dazzle when using fog lights.
It's safe to assume you are more likely to dazzle when using fog lights
in town and thus in close proximity to other cars than when on rural
roads and from their think fog lights are not to be used in such conditions.
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On 24/01/2020 18:31, mm0fmf wrote:
On 24/01/2020 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
My current car has an electric motorised handbrake. It's called a
'parking brake' and thats ALL it is designed for, and its riddy
awkward to iuse in a traffic queue on a slope as it takes an
appreciable time to disengage


It's faulty then. Previous car's electric brake engaged in under 0.5 secs.

0.5 seconds is an appreciable time


--
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On Friday, 24 January 2020 18:32:59 UTC, mm0fmf wrote:
On 24/01/2020 11:18, NY wrote:

Sadly, more and more drivers use their footbrake all the time that they
are stopped - do they even know where the handbrake is?


You need to drive a modern automatic with stop start and then you'll
know why so many cars do not use the handbrake.


I drive a modern car with stop-start and the parking brake applies automatically - regardless whether stop-start is active or disabled. Hence, once the car is truly stationary, I just take my foot off the brake pedal.

Trouble is, the other car I drive regularly is also automatic but has a manual handbrake and I do have to think about it when I switch over.
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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 04:57 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for almost an HOUR already!!!! LOL

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 04:57:10 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll****

04:57??? Is your unbearable loneliness not letting you sleep in again, you
cantankerous forsaken senile pest? GOOD! LOL

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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 05:11 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for OVER AN HOUR already!!!! LOL

fOn Sat, 25 Jan 2020 05:11:34 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

05:11??? LOL Is the day dawning in Australia already, you sleepless useless
senile cretin?

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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 04:42 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard has been out of Bed and TROLLING for almost an HOUR already!!!! LOL

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 04:42:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
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FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

04:42??? LOL If you had ANY decency you'd at least try to hide what the
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2020 11:18, NY wrote:
Sadly, more and more drivers use their footbrake all the time that they
are stopped - do they even know where the handbrake is? I suspect the
worst culprits are those with automatic transmission who stay in Drive
with the footbrake on to prevent them creeping forwards, rather than
knocking it into neutral until they are about to set off again.


The use of the handbrake is mandatory in a clutched car.


Nope.

Your left foot has to be on the clutch and the right on the accelerator.


Only when you are actually driving off. Except on a decent slope
there is no need to use the handbrake between having your foot
on the brake and moving it to the accelerator when driving off.

In the case of an automatioc its almost the exact opposite. You have to
learn to left foot brake to control the car in the same way you can a
clutched car: that is, fixed accelerator and then control uptake on the
left foot by releasing the brake insietd of the clutch.


The alternative is to disengage drive when stopped at the lights.

My current car has an electric motorised handbrake. It's called a 'parking
brake' and thats ALL it is designed for, and its riddy awkward to iuse in
a traffic queue on a slope as it takes an appreciable time to disengage



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