On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:50:36 UTC, T i m wrote:
I think education could play a big part, getting people to realise
that say walking on your land to be able to enjoy the countryside also
requires some consideration / respect from them.

You'll never educate the dregs of society. It's too late. The parents have no concept of civic or social responsibility. The schools aren't much better.

Bill

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 18:43:21 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 04:14:01 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the senile asshole's latest troll****

04:14 in Australia??? And you've been up and trolling since 03:16
again!!!! LMAO! Is your "life" SO miserable, you abnormal senile pest?
Good to know! LOL

is he really in Australia?

Sure, he always has been and still is: time zone +1100.

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:04:29 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags? And do they really
recycle them, or just burn them?

They just burn them. Obviously. They aren't going to fill them with crisps and glue them shut are they? It's ridiculous what some people do just to make themselves feel good.

Bill

In article ,
Peeler wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 18:43:21 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 04:14:01 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the senile asshole's latest troll****

04:14 in Australia??? And you've been up and trolling since 03:16
again!!!! LMAO! Is your "life" SO miserable, you abnormal senile pest?
Good to know! LOL

is he really in Australia?

Sure, he always has been and still is: time zone +1100.

that is simply how his computer is set up

--
From:

Charles Hope, Woodside, Ockham Road North, West Horsley, Surrey KT24 6PF
Tel:01483 283856 and 07785 790590
Chairman: National Trust for Scotland London Members' Centre
Charity number SC 027207

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:05:31 -0800 (PST), Bill Wright
wrote:

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:04:29 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags? And do they really
recycle them, or just burn them?

They just burn them. Obviously.

Yeah, 'obviously', and just buy the plastic furniture, plant pots and
watering cans in from elsewhere. Is that what you saw when you visited
their plant?

They aren't going to fill them with crisps and glue them shut are they?

Of course they aren't. You off yer meds again Bill?

It's ridiculous what some people do just to make themselves feel good.

Or what they try to do for the planet I'm guessing, according to you.

No, the feeling good bit is eating the crisps in the first place
(*especially* Walkers Cheese and onion), having them recycle the bags
is just a bonus.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:02:42 -0800 (PST), Bill Wright
wrote:

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:50:36 UTC, T i m wrote:
I think education could play a big part, getting people to realise
that say walking on your land to be able to enjoy the countryside also
requires some consideration / respect from them.

You'll never educate the dregs of society. It's too late.

I don't think it's ever too late, even if it's too late for a range of
generations.

eg. Loads of people used to throw away (landfill) all sorts of things
that the same people now (have to) recycle or they don't get their
bins collected. Eg, they have been 'educated' to do that, even if they
don't see or understand why they should.

The parents have no concept of civic or social responsibility.

'Those parents', yes, I agree. My parents did though, as we do and as
our daughter does and my step-granddaughter will.

The schools aren't much better.

I think too much pressure is put on the schools to provide parenting
to those children who don't get any. This in turn lowers the
opportunities for those who want to learn, as the teachers have to
waste time trying to 'manage' the kids who haven't been taught about
respect and how to behave in public.[1]

So, our daughter quietly conferring with the person sitting next to
her about what they should be doing (because the other person wasn't
listening or didn't get it) would be told to 'Be quiet' (because she
was a soft target) whilst a small group of wasters smash up furniture
and burn it at the back of the class. It's no point trying to manage
them because they are unmanageable *because* their parents didn't
parent them properly or respect the school / teachers either.

Cheers, T i m

[1] We had 'indoor' and 'outdoor' voices and we were reminded to use
our 'indoor' voices when in say a cafe or shop (along with not running
about and touching stuff of course). These aren't 'old fashioned' or
outmoded things, these are things that 'still' demonstrate respect for
others and luckily, still seen in many people today, including those
who aren't from the best of areas or have the best backgrounds.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 19:20:08 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:


is he really in Australia?

Sure, he always has been and still is: time zone +1100.

that is simply how his computer is set up

Nonsense, he never made a secret of it that he's trolling from Australia. He
simply IS so deranged and lonely to be posting all night long, every night. ;-)

"T i m" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 17:27:06 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

snip

I 'get' the 'I'm caught out and thirsty' thing, even for plain water,
it's the people who you see lugging what must be gallons of often
(still) water home from the shops when they have the same stuff for
1/1000th of the cost (of the water, let alone the environmental costs
of it's packaging and *transportation* S[1]) coming out of their taps
at home.


especially "Fijian water".

Good grief.

"... The Cleveland Water Department ran tests comparing a bottle of
Fiji Water to Cleveland tap water and some other national bottled
brands. Fiji Water reportedly contained 6.31 micrograms of arsenic per
litre, whereas the tap water of Cleveland contained none.[27] In a
2015 test of Fiji Water bottled in November 2014, performed and
reported by the company, the reported arsenic level was 1.2 micrograms
per litre, below the FDA limit of 10 micrograms per litre.[28]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_Water

This is another thing that gets me, the conspicuous consumption of
stuff, just because you can and / or because of how others 'rate' you
because of it.

In the same way the 'done thing' when you are selling an expensive
house is to fit a new kitchen to sell it and the fist thing any new
owner will do is rip out the brand new kitchen and fit a new one, the
'old' stuff going in the skip (that's part of the effect), not being
offered to friends or on Freecycle etc.

Like you hear of celebs having stuff 'flown in' especially for them or
only wearing their clothes once (before binning, not recycling them).

I don't begrudge them having the money to do it,

I do. What film 'stars' and sports fools are paid is completely stupid.

Same with the best of the 'presenters' etc on the BBC etc too.

I am frustrated that they don't have the social conscience not to do it.

On 22/01/2020 07:57, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

lead paint was dangerous when it fell off buildings in Edinburgh...could
kill you

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:02:42 -0800 (PST), Bill Wright
wrote:

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:50:36 UTC, T i m wrote:
I think education could play a big part, getting people to realise
that say walking on your land to be able to enjoy the countryside also
requires some consideration / respect from them.

You'll never educate the dregs of society. It's too late.

I don't think it's ever too late,

More fool you.

even if it's too late for a range of generations.

eg. Loads of people used to throw away (landfill) all sorts
of things that the same people now (have to) recycle or
they don't get their bins collected. Eg, they have been
'educated' to do that, even if they don't see or
understand why they should.

But still toss their used drink cans and food wrappers
and fag buts even when a bin is only a few feet away.

The parents have no concept of civic or social responsibility.

'Those parents', yes, I agree. My parents did though, as we
do and as our daughter does and my step-granddaughter will.

But its less clear that that is due to how you are
brought up and how much of it is just the genes.

The schools aren't much better.

I think too much pressure is put on the schools to provide parenting
to those children who don't get any. This in turn lowers the
opportunities for those who want to learn, as the teachers have to
waste time trying to 'manage' the kids who haven't been taught about
respect and how to behave in public.[1]

So, our daughter quietly conferring with the person sitting next to
her about what they should be doing (because the other person wasn't
listening or didn't get it) would be told to 'Be quiet' (because she
was a soft target) whilst a small group of wasters smash up furniture
and burn it at the back of the class. It's no point trying to manage
them because they are unmanageable *because* their parents didn't
parent them properly or respect the school / teachers either.

Or they are stuck with those genes.

Cheers, T i m

[1] We had 'indoor' and 'outdoor' voices and we were reminded to use
our 'indoor' voices when in say a cafe or shop (along with not running
about and touching stuff of course). These aren't 'old fashioned' or
outmoded things, these are things that 'still' demonstrate respect for
others and luckily, still seen in many people today, including those
who aren't from the best of areas or have the best backgrounds.

On 22/01/2020 07:57, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has been going
on for years.
Brian

what about all those disgusting fag ends ?

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:30:38 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:08:50 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

and simply burn where we can't recycle.

And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Ok, I'll admit to buying a bottle drink when we are out and have been
caught out but 1) we often re-use the bottle several times and 2) will
always recycle them properly.

It's also a big problem with the meal deals in supermarkets which I use
almost every day, and so do many students.

Even to the point of not trusting that
the likes of McDonalds sorting their waste and taking it home so that
we can be sure we have done it properly.

I've not been in McDonalds since 1993 and even then it was only because
a GF likked a McDonalds breakfast. 2003 was the last time I went
in a chain burger bar (burger king), and not been in a KFC type place
since around 1987.


If we do buy a plastic bottle of drink it's rarely just water out of
principal. Do they say bottled water is 1000 times more expensive than
tap water and often not as well tested as tap water?

It's what they say, but few people buy tap water anyway.
Most bottled water is spring water or other types.
I do drink the water from the dispenser in the graduate centre hallway
which is cooled water, about 500ml a day.


I often see people heaving huge multipacks of water into the shopping
trolleys or car boys and think they must be mad or something?

yes I do wonder about that too, but have you seen the price of it, so
cheap
relatively that is. Even lemonade in aldi was 16p per litre.


I often buy the Salisbury's 2% lager that has recently gone up to
£1.25 for 4 cans. How can 4 cans of lager, that is mostly water, be
less than a bottle of plain water?

Is it, I wondered who buys such stuff now I know ;-)
Unless of course you actually like the taste not that I've tried it.
I'll just have one or two bottles of spitfire, abbots ale, bishops finger
or similar a week.


The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them,

or that it actually does taste better.


are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

but NEVER when it's straight from the tap, they have NEVER done that test.
Sure put in in a bottle with the top off to let the cholrine evapourate
then cool it.
Another thing to remmber is that the water is tested BEFORE it goes
through the pipes to our homes. Even my cat won;t drink frest tap water
she'll wait 15 mins then go and drink it, this could be down to
temperature as I've noticed she
is more likely to drink warm water.


What a mad world we live in ...

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

That's the reason that I havent bought walkers crisps for over a year now.
In fact I haven't bought any crips during since then.
My brother told me that there's a reccyle shop that accepts walkers crisp
bags but it's a 15min walk from the tube station.

yopu might find a place near to you.

https://www.walkers.co.uk/recycle
My 'local' one isn't on this map above, which too ages to load.

But I do eat crisps sometimes.
I had some brussel spout flavoured ones before xams. I'm having some now
left over from a student function/event yesterday, and tried a sandwich
too, but the bread was crisper than the crisps !

I'm also cutting down on my meat intake

Why ?

Have been since may, not sure if I can go veggie let alone vegan.

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 07:50:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

07:50??? AGAIN? IOW, you will be trolling ALL night long, yet AGAIN, you
clinically insane useless senile asshole!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 08:10:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

08:10??? LOL So WHEN will you be going to bed today, you sleepless senile
asshole? You've been trolling ALL night long, yet AGAIN! LMAO

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 07:58:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

07:58 already??? And you are STILL unable to sleep? Just like EVERY NIGHT,
you abnormal senile pest? LOL

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID:

On 22/01/2020 12:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has
been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust and
the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
Â*While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.
Â*And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.
Â*See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/
Â*My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.

And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Chop everything up with a Tyranosaur shredder (even engine blocks!),
extract the ferrous metal with magnets and the non-ferrous with moving
magnetic fields (induction motor effect). Put the remainder into a
plasma arc syngas generator and *EVERYTHING* is clean burn! Take the
syngas and extract heat to produce steam for a turbine. Extract more
heat to heat feed water for the steam heat exchanger; burn the syngas in
a gas turbine. Sell the excess electricity produced by the turbines.

That was the system that was being planned some years ago.

SteveW

On 22/01/2020 18:58, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 17:27:06 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

snip

I 'get' the 'I'm caught out and thirsty' thing, even for plain water,
it's the people who you see lugging what must be gallons of often
(still) water home from the shops when they have the same stuff for
1/1000th of the cost (of the water, let alone the environmental costs
of it's packaging and *transportation* S[1]) coming out of their taps
at home.


especially "Fijian water".

Good grief.

"... The Cleveland Water Department ran tests comparing a bottle of
Fiji Water to Cleveland tap water and some other national bottled
brands. Fiji Water reportedly contained 6.31 micrograms of arsenic per
litre, whereas the tap water of Cleveland contained none.[27] In a
2015 test of Fiji Water bottled in November 2014, performed and
reported by the company, the reported arsenic level was 1.2 micrograms
per litre, below the FDA limit of 10 micrograms per litre.[28]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji_Water

This is another thing that gets me, the conspicuous consumption of
stuff, just because you can and / or because of how others 'rate' you
because of it.

In the same way the 'done thing' when you are selling an expensive
house is to fit a new kitchen to sell it and the fist thing any new
owner will do is rip out the brand new kitchen and fit a new one, the
'old' stuff going in the skip (that's part of the effect), not being
offered to friends or on Freecycle etc.

My parents' old kitchen went to their newly purchased property in France
and stayed there until they sold it 29 years later - so they had a
1970's, light green kitchen until last year!

When I bought this house, I kept the existing kitchen for some years
(changing the worktops and damaged sink) and only replaced the rest when
I needed more cupboards and could not match them. Two of the doors were
retained to re-do our electric cupboard in the hall and have just been
re-varnished.

We are now another 15 years on and about to redo the kitchen. The
carcasses will remain, but the worktop near the sink has begun to swell
and needs changing anyway as we are replacing a cooker with a separate
oven and hob, the end one is too narrow since we rearranged the layout
and the third one is too short and so has a joiner where it was extended
for an extra cupboard. The cupboard door foils have begun to peel and
the laminate flooring has suffered from a bit too much water after years
of mopping and a couple of recent floods from a faulty washing machine.

I think we are getting a reasonable life out of most of it.

Like you hear of celebs having stuff 'flown in' especially for them or
only wearing their clothes once (before binning, not recycling them).

I don't send clothes to recycling, but they are worn until they are past
it (even my children's clothes are kept for when I send them under the
floor - my arthritic knees mean that crawling under the floor is
reserved for me carrying out terminations of cables and the like), then
relegated to "work" clothes and finally rags for cleaning. My wife tends
to wear clothes until they start to come apart (I am lucky - she hates
clothes shopping).

I don't begrudge them having the money to do it, I am frustrated that
they don't have the social conscience not to do it.

It is a totally different mindset. We re-use many things and keep others
going long after many people would have discarded them, but it takes an
odd mindset to buy things and use them once. I have difficulty even
buying special tools that may be only used once and do my best to work
around such problems, even though it can cause difficulties trying to do
some jobs.

SteveW

On 22/01/2020 14:04, newshound wrote:
On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags? And do they really
recycle them, or just burn them?

I don't know, but in 1999, I used to visit a factory that was producing
2,500,000 Walker's crisp packets every day! That adds up to a lot of
plastic.

SteveW

On 22/01/2020 17:33, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 14:04:24 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags?

We don't know yet, probably 'quite some time'. Actually, that was the
quantity required for free collection, I see they now have loads of
free dropoff points that I assume have no minimum limit.

And do they really
recycle them,

I don't know, I'd like to think so:

https://www.walkers.co.uk/recycle

"What happens to the recycled packets?

The crisp packets are cleaned and shredded to turn them into plastic
pellets.
These pellets are then transformed into park benches, plant pots,
watering cans and cool bags."

I have just bought some underlay and it appears to be made from recycled
plastic, as there are a few "solid" pieces in it.

SteveW

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 17:33:11 +0000, T i m wrote:

How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags?

We don't know yet, probably 'quite some time'. Actually, that was the
quantity required for free collection, I see they now have loads of
free dropoff points that I assume have no minimum limit.

Is this part of the "terracycle" scheme/network?

Several of those boxes down in town for bread bags, crisp packets and
other stuff. I think people running them have sent of one consignment
of crisp packets after about 6 months of collection with anyone able
to drop off.

That's the trouble with plastic it's bulky and light. You need an
awful lot of whatever items to get a worthwhile weight.

And do they really recycle them,

I don't know, I'd like to think so:

https://www.walkers.co.uk/recycle

"What happens to the recycled packets?

The crisp packets are cleaned and shredded to turn them into plastic
pellets. These pellets are then transformed into park benches, plant
pots, watering cans and cool bags."

No attempt to recover the aluminimum? Aluminium consumes huge amounts
of energy to extract from bauxite.

Because they don't care what brand you hand in, I'm wondering if there
might also be a market survey going on?

I'm more of the mind that it's a coporate "carbon reduction" box
ticking excercise. "We recycled x million packets last year saving y
tonnes of CO2". At least they allow any makers crisp packet but why
not any metalised plastic film, like that around multipacks of some
confectionary?

Quite a few of the terracycle collections are brand specific which
also rings the corporate box ticking alarm bell.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 22/01/2020 12:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/01/2020 10:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:39:11 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Brian Gaff (Sofa)"
writes
With talk of pollution and microplastic, I see paint degenerate
particularly
outside, surly much of it is in microscopic flakes and this has
been going
on for years.
Brian

Actually, where do many things go? Rocks become stones, which become
pebbles, which become sand, which becomes microscopic sandy dust
and the
inorganic component of soil. How does this differ from the harmful
microscopic grains of degenerated plastic - and, presumably, paint?
*While I can understand why large pieces of plastic floating in the sea
can be hazardous to marine life (complete plastic bags ingested by
turtles, whales etc, and seals and dolphins becoming entangled in lost
or discarded fishing nets, for example), the dangers of finer plastic
is not immediately obvious, not to me at least. I would expect most of
it to pass right through and be crapped out as with ordinary marine
food residues. And if some does get absorbed into the organs of the
marine life, is it actually doing any harm? And if we eat said marine
life, is it actually going to harm us? I suspect the answer to both
those questions is no and no.
*And does the plastic never break down in the sea; is it there 'for
ever' as we're so often being told? Well, no. It breaks down into
finer and finer pieces, certainly, but that just exposes more surface
for the plastic-munching bacteria to get at and hasten the eventual
decomposition of the plastic. The lifetime of plastics in the oceans
is finite.
*See for example,
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/...ce-is-winning/
*My own view is that we should take an intelligent view of plastics.
They are, after all, an essential component of modern living, but we
should use less where we can, and recycle where we can't.

and simply burn where we can't recycle.
And push for packaging to be in *clean burn* plastics.

Chop everything up with a Tyranosaur shredder (even engine blocks!),
extract the ferrous metal with magnets and the non-ferrous with moving
magnetic fields (induction motor effect). Put the remainder into a
plasma arc syngas generator and *EVERYTHING* is clean burn! Take the
syngas and extract heat to produce steam for a turbine. Extract more
heat to heat feed water for the steam heat exchanger; burn the syngas
in a gas turbine. Sell the excess electricity produced by the turbines.

Lovely plan. Now sell it to the neighbours:-(

Governments elected by popular vote do not have the intestinal fortitude
for such decisions.


That was the system that was being planned some years ago.

SteveW

--
Tim Lamb

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 18:55:28 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:30:38 UTC, T i m wrote:
Ok, I'll admit to buying a bottle drink when we are out and have been
caught out but 1) we often re-use the bottle several times and 2) will
always recycle them properly. Even to the point of not trusting that
the likes of McDonalds sorting their waste and taking it home so that
we can be sure we have done it properly (rather than just throwing it
out the window of their car at some point on their way home ... where
they typically have a bin outside their own house?).

If we do buy a plastic bottle of drink it's rarely just water out of
principal. p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

You sound like a right nutter.

Even I don't think he's that, well not for this reason anyway :-)

And I bet he knows the differnce between a right nutter and a left nutter,
do you .






Bill

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 19:05:34 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:04:29 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags? And do they really
recycle them, or just burn them?

They just burn them. Obviously. They aren't going to fill them with crisps and glue them shut are they? It's ridiculous what some people do just to make themselves feel good.

Yeah and you know what all that rubbish about the ice caps melting...
Well it's really aliens stealing the ice and taking it back to their own galaxy.





Bill

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 21:10:32 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...



I'm also cutting down on my meat intake

Why ?

After a friend that loved his meat, always ate large amounts died of bowel cancer in his 40s....
His wife used to tell he he used to read a chapter of a book or listen to a few songs while taking a crap.... and that I've never really been a fan of steaks,
and chops didn't like the fatty or chewy bits even as a kid, and the cruelty
in obtaining some of these meats, and the effect of large aminal populations
sustained for food, and the methane they produce. And of cours ethe size
of fat americans and how they like their meat. I saw a coup,e on the tube
that had difficulty seating on a single seat !. I just decided to cut down.

Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that I genuinely like and prefer
to the meat versions. Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)

https://www.higgidy.co.uk/product/wo...veggie-rolls-0

trouble is I can eat a box of the above with, either garlic mayo or beetroot ketchup and a cup of tea at midnight before going to bed.

I doubt this practice is exaclty healthy but you only live once or so some say.

I'd like to cut down on milk too.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 21:10:32 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...



I'm also cutting down on my meat intake

Why ?

After a friend that loved his meat, always ate large amounts died of
bowel cancer in his 40s.... His wife used to tell he he used to read a
chapter of a book or listen to a few songs while taking a crap.... and
that I've never really been a fan of steaks, and chops didn't like the
fatty or chewy bits even as a kid, and the cruelty in obtaining some of
these meats, and the effect of large aminal populations sustained for
food, and the methane they produce. And of cours ethe size of fat
americans and how they like their meat. I saw a coup,e on the tube that
had difficulty seating on a single seat !. I just decided to cut down.

Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that I genuinely like and
prefer to the meat versions. Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)

https://www.higgidy.co.uk/product/wo...veggie-rolls-0

trouble is I can eat a box of the above with, either garlic mayo or
beetroot ketchup and a cup of tea at midnight before going to bed.

I doubt this practice is exaclty healthy but you only live once or so
some say.

Cats have 9 lives

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

I'm also cutting down on my meat intake

Why ?

After a friend that loved his meat, always ate
large amounts died of bowel cancer in his 40s....

Thats mad unless you also ate large amounts of meat.

His wife used to tell he he used to read a chapter of
a book or listen to a few songs while taking a crap....

Not surprising that bowel cancer can have downsides.

and that I've never really been a fan of steaks,

Its just one type of meat.

and chops didn't like the fatty or chewy bits even as a kid,

Ditto.

and the cruelty in obtaining some of these meats,

So eat the meat that doesnt involve any cruelty.

and the effect of large aminal populations sustained
for food, and the methane they produce.

Climate has changed much more due to other factors.

And of cours ethe size of fat americans
and how they like their meat.

No reason why anyone has to pig out like they do.

I saw a coup,e on the tube that had
difficulty seating on a single seat !.

Mate of mine was like that. But it wasnt due to the meat he ate.

I just decided to cut down.

Mad.

Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that
I genuinely like and prefer to the meat versions.

I havent found anything much. Toasted cheese on toast
is about it and I havent had that for about a decade now.

Just bought some cheese yesterday but havent eaten
any of it yet and dont plan to eat it that often.

Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)

https://www.higgidy.co.uk/product/wo...veggie-rolls-0

I do eat one version of Gozleme which has no meat
but alternate it with the other that does, from Aldi.

trouble is I can eat a box of the above with,
either garlic mayo or beetroot ketchup and
a cup of tea at midnight before going to bed.

Thats why you are as fat as the worst yanks.

I doubt this practice is exaclty healthy
but you only live once or so some say.

I'd like to cut down on milk too.

I don't drink any milk at all and dont use it for cooking either.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 03:44:17 +1100, Ray wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:03:13 +0000, T i m wrote:

Mum and Dad went to Singapore a few years back and they said that
place was immaculate and I believe there are very strong fines for
littering or dropping gum.

I *personally* regard littering - from the odd fag end right the way up
to flytipped tonnes - as one of the worst crimes a person can commit.
It's lack of respect for where I have to live is indicative of a very
bad person.

I'd be more than happy to see custodial sentences for littering. And I
would suspect a lot of petty crime would disappear overnight.

It didnt with marijuana.

I couldn't give two ****s though. If someone wants to use marijuana let
them. I have zero interest in laws enforcing morality, and unless someone
using MJ happens to break another law (say littering) it's no concern of
mine.

Sure, I just meant that a high risk of a custodial sentence
clearly didnt make that crime disappear overnight.

Same with shop stealing.

I think it's called the broken windows approach ?

Its always been a myth.

So not worth trying then ?

It was tried with marijuana and other recreational drugs.

Unless you care to cite ?

Just did with marijuana.

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 04:59:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I don't drink any milk at all and don¢t use it for cooking either.

What's this bull**** all about again, you trolling senile Arsetralian pest?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 05:08:40 +1100, Ray, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

Sure, I just meant that a high risk of a custodial sentence
clearly didn¢t make that crime disappear overnight.

Same with shop stealing.

No ****, senile wisenheimer! BG

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:58:10 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

Luckily I found a few things that are veggie that I genuinely like and prefer
to the meat versions. Red pepper and feta cheese rolls :-)

Daughter has been a vegi for about 10 years and has been testing
Veaganism (food + ethically) for Veganuary. I think she's going to
carry it on.

Her list of enjoyable fast Vegan food is now as follows (her job often
finds her out and about):

Greggs Vegan sausage rolls.
Costa's Vegan ham and cheese toasty (specifically when on offer).
KFC Quorn burger
Subway's Vegan Meatball Marinara
McD's Veggie Dippers
Greggs Vegan Steak Bake.

As of tonight she also likes Pappa John's 'The Vegan Works' and their
'Vegan Sausage & Pepperoni' pizzas (as did we all, my treat). ;-)

snip


I'd like to cut down on milk too.

I have for a couple of years now and been using a variety of the
alternative milks, as / when I see them on special. We (all) seem to
have settled on oak milk and I can't say I now notice the difference
than the semi-skimmed 'baby cow growth fluid' I was using previously.

In tea and coffee you only need to use a bit and not try yo use it as
you would cows milk to whiten the drink (or it can then taste a bit
oaty).

I'd go further and say I prefer it to semi-skimmed milk on cereal
(cold) and porridge / Wheatabix (hot).

Have you seen Netflix documentary, 'Cowspiracy' OOI?

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80033772

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:42:34 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:31:34 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:03:13 +0000, T i m wrote:

There are signs outside our daughters flats about 'Cleaning up after
your dog' but none (and they are needed) about smokers cleaning up
after themselves? There are loads of fag ends where they hang about
outside the flats (they aren't allowed to smoke inside any of the flat
blocks) but they seem to think it's 'ok', just to throw them on the
ground and walk off? The same seems to apply to some drinkers as one
empty can seems to soon attract more. ;-(

Ali cans are a saleable resource. If someone marketed some sort of bin that people could drop their can in & crush maybe some would site them where littering happens & make a little pocket money. Trouble is few are motivated by pocket money now. Maybe if it simply left easily carried ali bales for anyone to take someone would.


as one of the worst crimes a person can commit.

Well, I'm not sure I would quite go that far but it is right up there

no, it's purely petty.


and often linked with other 'anti social' (at least) activities /
altitudes. Large scale fly tipping (especially commercially) should
result in large fines, complete clear-up / disposal costs recovered,
along with a marker on them for the future.

It's lack of respect for where I have to live is indicative of a very bad
person.

sometimes yes. And sometimes I sympathise with people that have no way to legitimately dispose of their junk. Laws have made the whole thing overly restrictive for anyone without a car.

I really don't know if some of these people realise that they are
considered such by the majority (and I think they are still only a
minority) or if they do, that they care ... or think to care till it
happens to them that is. Collect the fly-tip up and shoot it over
their front garden wall. ;-)

Current disposal laws incentivise people to litter. So not surprisingly the ones that don't give a hoot tend to do so. The modern style of bad parenting is certainly another part of the problem.


I'd be more than happy to see custodial sentences for littering.

I think I would prefer to see community service, at least for smaller
/ first (caught) offences, get them out litter picking themselves,
then they might better *understand* the issue.

+1. Custodial is senseless overkill for something so petty.


We were just walking into our road when a very large biker, walking
the other way just put his empty milk-shake cup down on the ground and
started to walk off. The Mrs, apparently unable to restrain herself
shouted "Oy, mate" (bloke turns round) "there is a bin over there ..."
(pointing at the bin about 3 paces away) and said bloke turned round,
said 'Oh sorry', picked up his cup and stuck it in the bin ...
'luckily'. ;-)

I did similar with a large bloke who decided to have a pee in a street front of everyone. Good to have a suitable first comeback ready in case they get mouthy, such as something about how they've not managed to learn housetraining yet. He was belligerent & threatening but in the process he quickly realised people were looking right at him and could identify him later, and off he went. Didn't do it again afaik.


However, even she has become somewhat numbed to the problem, something
that might happen when having to pick ~10 large refuse sacks full of
other peoples waste in one small (Green Flag) park, TWICE A DAY in the
summer holidays. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

If it keeps being picked up, it'll keep being dumped.


NT

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:04:29 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).



How long does it take to collect 5 kg of crisp bags? And do they really
recycle them, or just burn them?

afaik they aren't recyclable. They're plastic & ali & grease, plus who knows what in the odd one.


NT

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:14:09 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:30:38 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:08:50 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If we do buy a plastic bottle of drink it's rarely just water out of
principal. Do they say bottled water is 1000 times more expensive than
tap water and often not as well tested as tap water?

It's what they say, but few people buy tap water anyway.

Probably over 99% of households buy tapwater

Most bottled water is spring water or other types.

spring, mineral or soft drinks.


Another thing to remmber is that the water is tested BEFORE it goes through the pipes to our homes. Even my cat won;t drink frest tap water she'll wait 15 mins then go and drink it, this could be down to temperature as I've noticed she
is more likely to drink warm water.

cats normally prefer cold water, but they often don't like the chlorination in tapwater.


What a mad world we live in ...

IMHO the law is a changeable part of the problem.


But I did have a vegan choclate bar today, but of course that was wrapped in plastic with a cardboard sleeve which has gone in the correct recycle bin.
Now whether or not it gets recycled I don't know.
But it was noted that all the recycled paper and card went into the same truck
as standard waste a year ago.

Still not sure what I can do about electrical waste, as in electroncis
and no longer used wall marts.

If you mean wallwarts I don't think they're recyclable.


NT

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 18:38:18 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 06:35:15 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 12:03:14 UTC, T i m wrote:
I was talking to a fellow dog walker yesterday who had a visitor stay
from the USA and their visitor stated how dirty they considered the UK
to be, specifically as compared to wherever they lived (and I'm
guessing some states / cities / towns were god / bad over there too).

The USA has a far lower population density and a lot more places they can just hide the problem in landfill.

True. And I understand they don't walk as often as we do so less
likely to drop stuff they were carrying as they do?

We used to be a much tidier country before all these environmental regulations put six different types of recycling bin on every corner.

Do you think there is that link then? [1]

Much / most of what I see is likely to be dropped by people on foot.
Little corners seem to attract drink cans and bottles that couldn't be
reached from the road and are too protected to have been blown there
by the wind (unlike the carrier bags / plastic bits in the trees and
bushes).

This is most evident on any route often used by school kids. Once they
are finished with it (wrapper, bag or bottle) they just drop it
wherever they are or throw it into one of these 'corners' as they pass
by.

My Mums house has a low front wall, opposite a bus stop and was a
small portion of chips away from a chip shop. It was very common to
find the empty paper wrappers or the remainder of the uneaten food
left on the wall or in her front garden. ;-(

I have *never* left such things anywhere and simply couldn't.

Cheers, T i m

[1] The only time I've seen anything like that is people putting their
(say) empty plastic drink bottle in our green recycling bin.

I have even seen someone putting small bits of paper in our general
waste bin (well, some went on the floor) when the difference in
distance between them and their car, their own bin and ours was only a
couple of meters. We don't put our (bagged) dog waste in other peoples
bins, even if it's a fair way home or to the next / dog / public
general waste bin.

this is all why rubbish dumping at tips was made free, and why councils put out lots of bins for people to use freely in towns. It's as if they've forgotten the lessons learnt decades ago. The current crop of laws were enacted to try to improve nuisance littering, but they've clearly made it much worse. And it's hardly surprising.


NT

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:03:30 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip good stuff

However, even she has become somewhat numbed to the problem, something
that might happen when having to pick ~10 large refuse sacks full of
other peoples waste in one small (Green Flag) park, TWICE A DAY in the
summer holidays. ;-(


If it keeps being picked up, it'll keep being dumped.

That's a good idea / point.

I wonder if they would do an experiment and *not* pick up any rubbish
for a week and see what happens?

There are people who will call / write in and complain to the Council
if just one litter pick round is missed so I'm guessing they would go
spare with a weeks worth?

And if it wasn't actually up to everyone's knees, would the litterers
simply use it as an excuse to litter more freely?

I would be up for more signs reminding people that it was *their* park
(simply being maintained by the Council on behalf of the people of the
borough) and so they might respect their space by not littering etc
but again, that might make some people worse (If it's mine I can
litter it if I want).

Providing more bins is a good solution to those who might use them
(and keep an eye on their kids dropping litter) or they will be abused
(to an even greater degree) by people clearing their cars out into the
park bins.

Many don't see / read the (many) closing time signs (meaning they get
locked in and getting the Park Guards out to let them out) so I'm
guessing they wouldn't see the litter bins / signs either. ;-(

They even stand by the signs suggesting people didn't feed the
wildfowl bread (and why), emptying a whole loaf into the pond.

I thin they may need to have some sort of pass where you have to read,
agree to and sign a declaration agreeing to the terms of the park
before they are allowed entry, then they couldn't say they 'didn't
realise' etc.

Many seem to work on the basis it's easier to seek forgiveness than
permission ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On Friday, 24 January 2020 00:48:55 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:03:30 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip good stuff

However, even she has become somewhat numbed to the problem, something
that might happen when having to pick ~10 large refuse sacks full of
other peoples waste in one small (Green Flag) park, TWICE A DAY in the
summer holidays. ;-(


If it keeps being picked up, it'll keep being dumped.

That's a good idea / point.

I wonder if they would do an experiment and *not* pick up any rubbish
for a week and see what happens?

There are people who will call / write in and complain to the Council
if just one litter pick round is missed so I'm guessing they would go
spare with a weeks worth?

And if it wasn't actually up to everyone's knees, would the litterers
simply use it as an excuse to litter more freely?

For sure. It'll just keep getting dirtier for a while. But then the outcry will be such that a percentage of people will be ready to pounce/snitch on litterers. Then organise a volunteer cleanup crew.


I would be up for more signs reminding people that it was *their* park
(simply being maintained by the Council on behalf of the people of the
borough) and so they might respect their space by not littering etc
but again, that might make some people worse (If it's mine I can
litter it if I want).

The problem is largely people that have no respect for anything or anyone. They don't care.


Providing more bins is a good solution to those who might use them
(and keep an eye on their kids dropping litter) or they will be abused
(to an even greater degree) by people clearing their cars out into the
park bins.

Many don't see / read the (many) closing time signs (meaning they get
locked in and getting the Park Guards out to let them out) so I'm
guessing they wouldn't see the litter bins / signs either. ;-(

so what. Make it difficult for them to find the guards & they'll learn not to do that next time. Give the guards jacket mounted cameras & fine or ban people (a worm of cans in itself).


They even stand by the signs suggesting people didn't feed the
wildfowl bread (and why), emptying a whole loaf into the pond.

maybe they don't agree.

I thin they may need to have some sort of pass where you have to read,
agree to and sign a declaration agreeing to the terms of the park
before they are allowed entry, then they couldn't say they 'didn't
realise' etc.

they agree to clearly displayed terms anyway. Let them agree to being fined.

Many seem to work on the basis it's easier to seek forgiveness than
permission ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 22/01/2020 12:30, T i m wrote:

p.s. Since I saw it mentioned here, we care saving crisp / snack
packets as I believe Walkers will take them is 5kg batches. We are
looking for a good way to store them as they can take up a bit of room
unless compressed somehow (and we don't want to knot them up as I'm
not sure how they re-process them).

Can they recycle them?
Haven't they just been shamed providing one use packaging and as a PR
exercise they are now accepting the packaging back for disposal to
landfill or incineration?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/01/2020 13:50, Chris J Dixon wrote:
T i m wrote:

The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them, are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

I do buy a little of Sainsbury's cheapest fizzy water. The amount
we use is so low that pratting about with Sparklets is not a
sensible or economic option.


It's no use cutting back on plastics if you create another problem by
using alternative consumables (such as "sparklet" capsules) that require
much more resources for recycling and probably create more climate
altering gasses during manufacture.

Its very much like people that give up dairy products for health or
climate crisis reasons but then start using plant based dairy substitute
products sourced from ingredients transported from the other side of the
planet and are heavily modified in industrialised processes that use
salt, sugar and other "healthy" ingredients to make them palatable.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/01/2020 13:22, Chris Hogg wrote:

And incinerate in a waste-to-electricity plant.


One of the project fear Brexit stories was that after we left the EU
that we would be buried under a mountain of plastic waste that couldn't
be recycled because without a trade deal we would no longer be able to
export it to Scandinavia where it's currently been used to generate
power in a purpose build incinerator.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:50:12 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 22/01/2020 13:50, Chris J Dixon wrote:
T i m wrote:

The answer of course is that some people buy bottled water because
they think it's better for them, are too lazy to re-fill an existing
bottle or think it tastes better (when where they have done blind
tests, 'most people' prefer tap water). ;-)

I do buy a little of Sainsbury's cheapest fizzy water. The amount
we use is so low that pratting about with Sparklets is not a
sensible or economic option.


It's no use cutting back on plastics if you create another problem by
using alternative consumables (such as "sparklet" capsules) that require
much more resources for recycling and probably create more climate
altering gasses during manufacture.

Its very much like people that give up dairy products for health or
climate crisis reasons but then start using plant based dairy substitute
products sourced from ingredients transported from the other side of the
planet and are heavily modified in industrialised processes that use
salt, sugar and other "healthy" ingredients to make them palatable.

Then that depends on the overall footprint of each.

eg, It could well be that the 'fake milk' requires a faction of the
space to produce (compared with cows milk), a fraction of the water
and actually produces far less of the worst greenhouse gasses (methane
V CO2), then we may all still be better off overall (and no cow
hormones in fake milk for example).

https://www.alpro.com/uk/products/dr.../oat-original/

Cheers, T i m