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Default Adam's apprentices

Tim Streater wrote:

In the US you cannot even buy a mains plug, strickly speaking.


Home depot don't seem shy about selling them ...

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-Controls-Electrical-Plugs-Connectors/AC-WORKS/Eaton/GE/Legrand-Pass-and-Seymour/N-5yc1vZc336ZloZwcZ384Zh5oZhho?NCNI-5&experienceName=default&storeSelection=2408,2414, 2409,2407,2404
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On 12/7/2019 9:24 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:

In the US you cannot even buy a mains plug, strickly speaking.


Home depot don't seem shy about selling them ...

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-Controls-Electrical-Plugs-Connectors/AC-WORKS/Eaton/GE/Legrand-Pass-and-Seymour/N-5yc1vZc336ZloZwcZ384Zh5oZhho?NCNI-5&experienceName=default&storeSelection=2408,2414, 2409,2407,2404

Lowe's, too.
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On 07/12/2019 13:26, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.


Is that the money you pay to Microsoft, Bill?


It's funny but when there's talk of windows I never think about Windows.

Bill
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In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I've just had a 2nd year electronic engineering student studying for a
degree ask me what the connector on the end of the soldering iron is
for, I said to connect to the power supply, what power supply ? was the
next question.


Could be he's only ever seen a mains soldering iron before. If at all.

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wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:58:50 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.


But you wuz too poor to 'ave windows :-)


And they arent cheap to have in a cave.

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Default UNBELIEVABLE: It's 03:56 am in Australia and the Senile Ozzietard is out of Bed and TROLLING, already!!!! LOL

On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 03:56:39 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the clinically insane trolling asshole's latest troll****

03:56??? Yet ANOTHER night without sleep for you, you subnormal quarrelsome
senile idiot? BG

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On 06/12/2019 11:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 09:40:36 +0000 (UTC), Brian Reay wrote:

That kind of â tinkeringâ by children is pretty well a thing of the
past.

Toys like Mecanno,


But still easyly available, so someone must be buying them.


I found it nearly impossible (well almost) to buy old style Meccano (you
know with a multitude of bits you could make into anything). Instead it
seemed to be all kits you could make into ONE specific thing (Action man
was the same, no 1 Action man and 50 uniforms it was a separate Action
man for each activity). I had to go off the beaten path to find Neccano
that was just parts.

I blame the French, Meccano was much better when it was a Hornby thing.
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On 07/12/2019 13:51, charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , alan_m
wrote:


On 05/12/2019 22:56, Robin wrote:

ISTM such questions would test how much they /already/ know - which
could vary enormously through chance (eg whether or not they had a
parent who did stuff). What the employer wants to know* is whether or
not they have what it takes to /become/ an electrician. I'd have
thought that was better assessed by testing things all school leavers
ought to know - e.g. basic arithmetic, algebra and comprehension.

A decent interview should sort that out. Its not only what they know but
their attitude to actually working.

I'm sure that most reading this group have HAD to fit a mains plug but
these day they all come moulded onto the cable.


In the US you cannot even buy a mains plug, strickly speaking.


Which would be a problem in our village hall, where the three
appliances you are asked to leave disconnected and (for the two
fridges), door open, have their mains cable coming up through the
counter top via a cable-width hole, with the plug above along with the
wall sockets.


simple, enlarge the hole to take one the many desk cable outlets. It's what
I did for our village hall. Kept the fridge's warranty


Swapping a moulded plug does not invalidate a warranty.


--
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On Sat, 07 Dec 2019 17:46:49 +0000, soup wrote:

I found it nearly impossible (well almost) to buy old style Meccano (you
know with a multitude of bits you could make into anything). Instead it
seemed to be all kits you could make into ONE specific thing (Action man
was the same, no 1 Action man and 50 uniforms it was a separate Action
man for each activity). I had to go off the beaten path to find Neccano
that was just parts.


My problem exactly. I got a number 4 set for Christmas one year (back in
the 1950s) and each week I bought a bit more to make it into a no. 5.
Then a 6 ... 7 ... 8 ... 9 ... 10! Couldn't afford the nice caninet
though.

If a no. 10 set was available in a cabinet now, I might just buy it.


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In article , Robin
writes
On 05/12/2019 22:16, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases. Every
so often you get a good one.

Why doesn't your boss give potential apprentices a simple test
to find out if they have even the slightest knowledge of the
subject they wish to be paid to learn about?
For example:
1. What is the UK mains voltage? (Accept both 240 & 230,
though the latter answer might indicate a better knowledge of
the subject.)
2. What are the colours of the wires in a 3-core mains lead?
L?
N?
E?
3. [Line drawing of the inside of a 13A plug.]
On the drawing, using the letters C, E, F, L & N, show the
Live, Neutral and Earth connections and the position of the
Fuse and Cable clamp.


ISTM such questions would test how much they /already/ know - which
could vary enormously through chance (eg whether or not they had a
parent who did stuff). What the employer wants to know* is whether or
not they have what it takes to /become/ an electrician. I'd have
thought that was better assessed by testing things all school leavers
ought to know - e.g. basic arithmetic, algebra and comprehension.

Oh, and a test based on a 13A plug would also tend to put recent
immigrants at a disadvantage so arguably unlawful as indirect racial
discrimination.

*assuming they want to train apprentices rather than, say, just torment
Adam

You can teach them the technical stuff, what is more difficult is
teaching them attitude.
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bert
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Default The Bulge - was Adam's apprentices

In article , Roger Hayter
writes
Terry Casey wrote:

In article ,
says...

I was born in 1944. I passed the 11 Plus and went to a Church
school, which covered a large area. It was also a Secondary
Modern for the local area. The Grammar side had 3 forms, A, B,
& C whilst the Secondary Modern side had two forms, D & E.

After WWII, 'The Bulge' started. By the time I left school,
the fisrt year extended to 1H!

Of course, not long after I left school and started work, the
bulge started to emerge onto the employment market.

Our Group Scoutmaster used to chat to us older boys after
weekly meetings and gave the lads who were on the verge of
leaving school a warning.

He worked for Van den Bergh & Jurgens (part of Unilever) who
manufactured Stork Margerine in the main.

Their apprenticeships were well respected and sought after and
they were now being inundated with applications, so they had
found a devious way of reducing the numbers.

They held an examination for all applicant, each of whom was
provided with:

A sheet of blotting paper;
A rough sheet;
An answer paper and
A question paper.

At the top of the question paper it said "ALL WORKING MUST BE
SHOWN ON THE ANSWER PAPER".

At the end of the exam, every sheet of paper was collected
from each desk. If anything had been scribbled on any piece of
paper other than the answer paper, it was an instant fail.
The answer paper might have been 100% correct but it wan't
even marked.

Reason for failure? 'Cannot obey a simple instruction.'


That would make sense if they had said all working should be *confned*
to the answer paper. The instructions as you quote them do *not*
forbid doing rough working on the blotter and transcribing it in neater
writing to the answer paper.

+1
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On 06/12/2019 19:11, S Viemeister wrote:
On 12/6/2019 12:07 PM, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:11:10 -0500, S Viemeister wrote:

When our daughter moved into a shared flat, we gave her a set of basic
tools - in 'girly' colours, so her male flatmates wouldn't
'accidentally' acquire them.


No.1 Daugher asked for a tool kit when she moved into rented student
accomdation. Didn't dare get her one in girly colours though.

Turns out, not only didn't the guys have tool-kits, they wouldn't have
known what to do with them.


Do you wish to rephrase that? Most odd for a young male not to know
what to do with his tool kit.Â* B-)

I didn't dare ask about that.

But the boys were totally useless when it came to hammers, spanners and,
umm, the pointy things for twirling threaded objects which are used to
fasten stuff together.


Too busy with their wanking spanners.

--
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ARW wrote:
On 07/12/2019 19:00, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
ARW wrote:
On 04/12/2019 22:00, Steve Walker wrote:
On 04/12/2019 20:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:03:51 UTC, ARW wrote:
This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can
fit a back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc.

Could I suggest that being able to wire up a two way lightswitch
should be an *entry criterion* to being an electrical apprentice?

Fairly sure I could have done it at 16.

In fact I was probably doing it about 8, with a battery and
paperclips and brass paper fasteners for switches :-)

I think I was about 12 or 13 when I installed the two mains
spotlights, pair of dimmers and changed the switch near the door of
my bedroom from a single gang to a 3-gang, with two way switching
on both the spotlights.

When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases.
Every so often you get a good one.


I remember having an apprentice, he was 21. We were hanging fire
extinguishers on the walls in a very posh accountants office. I
asked him if he knew how to use a drill and a screwdriver. He said
yes. I left him to it. The next day I had to go back as what he had
done had fallen off the walls. He made me look like a right ****.


Please tell me that he was called Mirror.


What is that supposed to mean?


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On Saturday, 7 December 2019 18:43:07 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
If a no. 10 set was available in a cabinet now, I might just buy it.


They are :-)

Cheap at £600

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete/143458848507

Not so cheap at £1795

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meccano/124000702126

Owain

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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 10:17:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Nope


Nope, you auto-contradicting senile asshole? LOL

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On Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:07:19 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Saturday, 7 December 2019 18:43:07 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
If a no. 10 set was available in a cabinet now, I might just buy it.


They are :-)

Cheap at £600

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete/143458848507

Not so cheap at £1795

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meccano/124000702126


Wow. I would prefer the second one as it is the 'right' colours!

If any Meccano enthusiasts are in Brighton, visit the Toy and Model
Museum (in Trafalgar Street, underneath the station forecourt).

They have 'Meccano through the ages' as well as other stuff such as
Erector sets and Trix.



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On Saturday, 7 December 2019 22:36:58 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
Not so cheap at £1795
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meccano/124000702126

Wow. I would prefer the second one as it is the 'right' colours!


Well, it's the right time of year for a letter to Santa.

Owain

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Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

ARW wrote:
On 07/12/2019 19:00, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
ARW wrote:
On 04/12/2019 22:00, Steve Walker wrote:
On 04/12/2019 20:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:03:51 UTC, ARW wrote:
This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can
fit a back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc.

Could I suggest that being able to wire up a two way lightswitch
should be an *entry criterion* to being an electrical apprentice?

Fairly sure I could have done it at 16.

In fact I was probably doing it about 8, with a battery and
paperclips and brass paper fasteners for switches :-)

I think I was about 12 or 13 when I installed the two mains
spotlights, pair of dimmers and changed the switch near the door of
my bedroom from a single gang to a 3-gang, with two way switching
on both the spotlights.

When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases.
Every so often you get a good one.

I remember having an apprentice, he was 21. We were hanging fire
extinguishers on the walls in a very posh accountants office. I
asked him if he knew how to use a drill and a screwdriver. He said
yes. I left him to it. The next day I had to go back as what he had
done had fallen off the walls. He made me look like a right ****.


Please tell me that he was called Mirror.


What is that supposed to mean?


It's a really subtle and complicated joke.

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On Sat, 07 Dec 2019 14:42:20 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Saturday, 7 December 2019 22:36:58 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
Not so cheap at £1795 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meccano/124000702126

Wow. I would prefer the second one as it is the 'right' colours!


Well, it's the right time of year for a letter to Santa.


I told Mrs Santa and she wasn't very encouraging.


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On 07/12/2019 13:51, charles wrote:


simple, enlarge the hole to take one the many desk cable outlets. It's what
I did for our village hall. Kept the fridge's warranty


You don't need a very big hole to get a three pin plug in. Ask anyone
who's ever smuggled a cellphone charger into prison. I admit it can make
your eyes water.

Bill
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On 07/12/2019 03:34, FMurtz wrote:

Try working it out with a pencil.



Like the constipated mathematician


I usually use a spoon handle.

Bill
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On 07/12/2019 17:46, soup wrote:

I blame the French


I do usually.

Bill


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On 07/12/2019 22:07, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 18:43:07 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
If a no. 10 set was available in a cabinet now, I might just buy it.


They are :-)

Cheap at £600

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete/143458848507

Not so cheap at £1795

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meccano/124000702126

Owain

I like the obligatory Old Holbourn tin for the nuts and bolts.

Bill
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On 07/12/2019 23:44, Roger Hayter wrote:
Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

ARW wrote:
On 07/12/2019 19:00, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
ARW wrote:
On 04/12/2019 22:00, Steve Walker wrote:
On 04/12/2019 20:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:03:51 UTC, ARW wrote:
This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can
fit a back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc.

Could I suggest that being able to wire up a two way lightswitch
should be an *entry criterion* to being an electrical apprentice?

Fairly sure I could have done it at 16.

In fact I was probably doing it about 8, with a battery and
paperclips and brass paper fasteners for switches :-)

I think I was about 12 or 13 when I installed the two mains
spotlights, pair of dimmers and changed the switch near the door of
my bedroom from a single gang to a 3-gang, with two way switching
on both the spotlights.

When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases.
Every so often you get a good one.

I remember having an apprentice, he was 21. We were hanging fire
extinguishers on the walls in a very posh accountants office. I
asked him if he knew how to use a drill and a screwdriver. He said
yes. I left him to it. The next day I had to go back as what he had
done had fallen off the walls. He made me look like a right ****.


Please tell me that he was called Mirror.


What is that supposed to mean?


It's a really subtle and complicated joke.


To be fair, the apprentice was a right lazy *******. Job had already
been done a long time ago.

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On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 04:13:32 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

On 07/12/2019 22:07, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 18:43:07 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
If a no. 10 set was available in a cabinet now, I might just buy it.


They are :-)

Cheap at £600

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete/143458848507

Not so cheap at £1795

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meccano/124000702126

Owain

I like the obligatory Old Holbourn tin for the nuts and bolts.


I have loads of Players' 'No Name' tins for screws, etc. No more, though,
because SWMBO gave up her pipe.

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On 07/12/2019 23:46, tim... wrote:


"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
...
ARW wrote:
On 04/12/2019 22:00, Steve Walker wrote:
On 04/12/2019 20:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:03:51 UTC, ARW wrote:
This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can
fit a back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc.

Could I suggest that being able to wire up a two way lightswitch
should be an *entry criterion* to being an electrical apprentice?

Fairly sure I could have done it at 16.

In fact I was probably doing it about 8, with a battery and
paperclips and brass paper fasteners for switches :-)

I think I was about 12 or 13 when I installed the two mains
spotlights, pair of dimmers and changed the switch near the door of
my bedroom from a single gang to a 3-gang, with two way switching on
both the spotlights.

When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases. Every
so often you get a good one.


I remember having an apprentice, he was 21. We were hanging fire
extinguishers on the walls in a very posh accountants office. I asked
him if he knew how to use a drill and a screwdriver. He said yes. I
left him to it. The next day I had to go back as what he had done had
fallen off the walls. He made me look like a right ****.


well you didn't ask if he knew about wall-plugs, did you


Used the wrong screws?


--
Adam


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On 07/12/2019 13:51, charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , alan_m
wrote:


On 05/12/2019 22:56, Robin wrote:

ISTM such questions would test how much they /already/ know - which
could vary enormously through chance (eg whether or not they had a
parent who did stuff). What the employer wants to know* is whether or
not they have what it takes to /become/ an electrician. I'd have
thought that was better assessed by testing things all school leavers
ought to know - e.g. basic arithmetic, algebra and comprehension.

A decent interview should sort that out. Its not only what they know but
their attitude to actually working.

I'm sure that most reading this group have HAD to fit a mains plug but
these day they all come moulded onto the cable.


In the US you cannot even buy a mains plug, strickly speaking.


Which would be a problem in our village hall, where the three
appliances you are asked to leave disconnected and (for the two
fridges), door open, have their mains cable coming up through the
counter top via a cable-width hole, with the plug above along with the
wall sockets.


simple, enlarge the hole to take one the many desk cable outlets. It's what
I did for our village hall. Kept the fridge's warranty


And/Or a cable cover:

https://www.bpfonline.co.uk/search.asp?catid=3970


--
Cheers, Rob
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Terry Casey wrote:

Isn't it Australia where they are very restictive?


I believe they do have Part P on steroids, but Bunnings sell mains plugs
with the description "ideal for the home handyman or professional trade
person"


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On Sunday, 8 December 2019 01:00:03 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
Well, it's the right time of year for a letter to Santa.

I told Mrs Santa and she wasn't very encouraging.


That's so unreasonable.

(You didn't tell her the price first, did you? Fatal error.)

It's less than many teenage girls would spend on a hand-bag.

Owain

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In article ,
Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
I remember having an apprentice, he was 21. We were hanging fire
extinguishers on the walls in a very posh accountants office. I asked
him if he knew how to use a drill and a screwdriver. He said yes. I left
him to it. The next day I had to go back as what he had done had fallen
off the walls. He made me look like a right ****.


Fixing something heavy to a wall is not something I'd leave to anyone,
unless I was certain they knew how to do such a job.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
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On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 17:46:49 +0000, soup wrote:

But still easyly available, so someone must be buying them.


I found it nearly impossible (well almost) to buy old style Meccano (you
know with a multitude of bits you could make into anything). Instead it
seemed to be all kits you could make into ONE specific thing


So each of these kits uses *only* parts unique to that kit/model? Not
mostly generic parts with one or two "specials"?

Themed kits are a way to hook into the band wagon of big marketing
budgets for that theme. Remember we are dealing with kids/people with
under stimulated imaginations. Put two identical "kits" on the shelf
next to each other with the same price tag. One just listing and
showing the parts in the box, the other with a major theme (Star
Wars, Harry Potter, WHY) and a picture of what the kit will build.
Which one will sell the most?

--
Cheers
Dave.



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