"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 06/12/2019 15:46, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 15:06:55 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
Of course not, electricians /never/ calculate anything using an
equation
do they.
Thats not school algebra.

Perhaps it should be.

I got to 35 before realising that quadratic equations had any real-world
purpose. I thought they were invented to torture schoolchildren.

When I was building my conservatory, I had a wall and a window at 90°,
connected by another wall at an angle, with the roof sloping down at an
another angle. I've forgotten what I needed to calculate, but it quickly
turned out to be a quadratic equation that I needed to solve.


Sure but its not something most electricians do at work.

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 8:38:33 AM UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 05/12/2019 14:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:03:51 UTC, ARW wrote:

This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can fit a
back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc. Due to the
minimum wage rules and the fact we run a business then they will
probably soon be laid off.

I've just had a 2nd year electronic engineering student studying for a degree ask me what the connector on the end of the soldering iron is for, I said to connect to the power supply, what power supply ? was the next question.



A fair question if he has only been given the working end of a
temperature controlled soldering iron and no control box. Or was the
connector on the end of the lead a mains plug?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Before starting an apprentiship, at least in Scotland there is a test. The electrician one is the hardest. Adam should be seeing the best that is on offer as far as apprentises go.

On 12/6/2019 12:07 PM, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:11:10 -0500, S Viemeister wrote:

When our daughter moved into a shared flat, we gave her a set of basic
tools - in 'girly' colours, so her male flatmates wouldn't
'accidentally' acquire them.

No.1 Daugher asked for a tool kit when she moved into rented student
accomdation. Didn't dare get her one in girly colours though.

Turns out, not only didn't the guys have tool-kits, they wouldn't have
known what to do with them.

Do you wish to rephrase that? Most odd for a young male not to know
what to do with his tool kit. B-)

I didn't dare ask about that.

But the boys were totally useless when it came to hammers, spanners and,
umm, the pointy things for twirling threaded objects which are used to
fasten stuff together.

On Friday, 6 December 2019 19:00:39 UTC, misterroy wrote:
Before starting an apprentiship, at least in Scotland there is a
test. The electrician one is the hardest. Adam should be seeing
the best that is on offer as far as apprentises go.

Sample test here

http://www.sectt.org.uk/assessment.html

I got 100% but that was with a couple of short-cuts on the mental arithmetic.

Owain

On 05/12/2019 22:56, Robin wrote:


*assuming they want to train apprentices rather than, say, just torment
Adam


If I think they are trying it on I make sexual comments about their
mother. That usually upsets them or stops them.


--
Adam

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 05:21:53 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's latest troll****

05:21??? LOL STILL not bedtime for you, abnormal senile cretin from Oz?

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rot:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 05:16:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the abnormal idiot's latest troll****

05:16??? LOL And you have been up and trolling for HOW many hours already?
Do tell us! LMAO

--
Bod addressing senile Rot:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
Message-ID:

On 06/12/2019 11:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/12/2019 10:04, wrote:
On Thursday, 5 December 2019 23:45:24 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
Cant see that algebra is much use to an electrician.

Of course not, electricians /never/ calculate anything using an equation
do they.

Owain

Electricians don't, no. Electrical engineers, however, do.

But they do have to check wire temperatures under load and fautl
conditions, voltage drop and fault currents and things like that in
principle. Also do calculations for commissioning checks. The fact you
could rewire an average house with average materials and never exceed
any limits doesn't mean a professional electrician shouldn't bother.
And not all wiring is an average house.


The OSG and the Wiki cover a basic rewire. Follow a few basic rules and
there is usually not much to calculate on a domestic rewire.

Larger industrial and commercial stuff is usually already designed for
you when it is put out to tender.

But there are times you enter a building to install a supply for one
item and you have to do the calculations.

--
Adam

On 05/12/2019 22:50, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 05/12/2019 22:16, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases. Every
so often you get a good one.

Why doesn't your boss give potential apprentices a simple test
to find out if they have even the slightest knowledge of the
subject they wish to be paid to learn about?

For example:

1. What is the UK mains voltage? (Accept both 240 & 230,
though the latter answer might indicate a better knowledge of
the subject.)

2. What are the colours of the wires in a 3-core mains lead?

L?
N?
E?

3. [Line drawing of the inside of a 13A plug.]

On the drawing, using the letters C, E, F, L & N, show the
Live, Neutral and Earth connections and the position of the
Fuse and Cable clamp.

I'm sure you can think up a few more simple general knowledge
questions in similar vein which would, at least, indicate that
they have a head on their shoulders and are not complete and
utter thickos - which many of your apprentces seemm to be!


I once asked one of them how old they were.

Just myself and him in the same room so nothing too complicated.

I think his answer was some sort of a question.

Me "How old are you?"
Apprentice "Who me?"

It's easier just to not talk to some of them.

The point I was trying to make is that they shouldn't even be
there for you to (attempt to) talk to them in the first place!


They get a two week trial. We only keep on the ones that last two weeks.

Some last one day. Some do not last a full day. Some never even make it
from the office to the van.

--
Adam

On Friday, 6 December 2019 19:19:44 UTC, ARW wrote:
If I think they are trying it on I make sexual comments about their
mother. That usually upsets them or stops them.

You wouldn't if you'd met my mother.

Owain

On 06/12/2019 16:34, Andrew wrote:
The local mayor then asked her (via interpreter) why she hadn't
learnt any french (having been there for 5 years).

I used to work with a guy who'd lived in Germany for 5 years, and not
learned the language.

My question isn't why, but _how_ could you not learn the language!

Andy

In message ,
writes
On Friday, 6 December 2019 19:00:39 UTC, misterroy wrote:
Before starting an apprentiship, at least in Scotland there is a
test. The electrician one is the hardest. Adam should be seeing
the best that is on offer as far as apprentises go.

Sample test here

http://www.sectt.org.uk/assessment.html

I got 100% but that was with a couple of short-cuts on the mental arithmetic.

Ha! They asked me to fill in an application form:-)
--
Tim Lamb

On 06/12/2019 18:21:53, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 06/12/2019 15:46, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 15:06:55 UTC, Rod SpeedÂ* wrote:
Of course not, electricians /never/ calculate anything using an
equation
do they.
Thats not school algebra.

Perhaps it should be.

I got to 35 before realising that quadratic equations had any
real-world purpose. I thought they were invented to torture
schoolchildren.

When I was building my conservatory, I had a wall and a window at 90°,
connected by another wall at an angle, with the roof sloping down at
an another angle. I've forgotten what I needed to calculate, but it
quickly turned out to be a quadratic equation that I needed to solve.


Sure but its not something most electricians do at work.

Only an idiot would think that power loss in a cable is a linear
function of current.

But then you probably already knew that.

On 06/12/2019 19:15, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 19:00:39 UTC, misterroy wrote:
Before starting an apprentiship, at least in Scotland there is a
test. The electrician one is the hardest. Adam should be seeing
the best that is on offer as far as apprentises go.

Sample test here

http://www.sectt.org.uk/assessment.html

I got 100% but that was with a couple of short-cuts on the mental arithmetic.


How do you work out do some of the answers?

Take Q7

I just think easy. 10% is 24, half that and add it to 24.

BTW the answer to Q12 is to buy an LED lamp before you start:-)



--
Adam

On Friday, 6 December 2019 21:02:54 UTC, ARW wrote:
How do you work out do some of the answers?
Take Q7
I just think easy. 10% is 24, half that and add it to 24.

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember 15% VAT.

Owain

On Friday, 6 December 2019 20:15:44 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
I used to work with a guy who'd lived in Germany for 5 years, and not
learned the language.
My question isn't why, but _how_ could you not learn the language!

They all speak English, and Beer Taxi Hotel Police Toilet are the same or close enough.

Owain

"misterroy" wrote in message
...
On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 8:38:33 AM UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 05/12/2019 14:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 18:03:51 UTC, ARW wrote:

This year we have 2 third year apprentices. Neither of them can fit a
back box straight, wire up a two way lightswitch etc etc. Due to the
minimum wage rules and the fact we run a business then they will
probably soon be laid off.

I've just had a 2nd year electronic engineering student studying for a
degree ask me what the connector on the end of the soldering iron is
for, I said to connect to the power supply, what power supply ? was the
next question.



A fair question if he has only been given the working end of a
temperature controlled soldering iron and no control box. Or was the
connector on the end of the lead a mains plug?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Before starting an apprentiship, at least in Scotland there is a test. The
electrician one is the hardest. Adam should be seeing the best that is on
offer as far as apprentises go.

The problem is that the best that is on offer are mostly hopeless
on the basic work ethic stuff, let alone very basic stuff like getting
back boxes level. Hardly rocket science.

On 06/12/2019 21:26, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 21:02:54 UTC, ARW wrote:
How do you work out do some of the answers?
Take Q7
I just think easy. 10% is 24, half that and add it to 24.

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember 15% VAT.

Owain


I am old enough to remember purchase tax which was about 40% before it
was replaced by VAT at 15%.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 05/12/2019 22:56, Robin wrote:


*assuming they want to train apprentices rather than, say, just torment
Adam


If I think they are trying it on I make sexual comments about their
mother.

Wota surprise }-(

That usually upsets them or stops them.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 06/12/2019 18:21:53, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 06/12/2019 15:46, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 15:06:55 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
Of course not, electricians /never/ calculate anything using an
equation
do they.
Thats not school algebra.

Perhaps it should be.

I got to 35 before realising that quadratic equations had any
real-world purpose. I thought they were invented to torture
schoolchildren.

When I was building my conservatory, I had a wall and a window at 90°,
connected by another wall at an angle, with the roof sloping down at an
another angle. I've forgotten what I needed to calculate, but it quickly
turned out to be a quadratic equation that I needed to solve.


Sure but its not something most electricians do at work.

Only an idiot would think that power loss in a cable is a linear function
of current.

Irrelevant to whether you need school level algebra to be an effective
electrician.

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:00:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

10:00 am in Australia? ROTFLOL And you've been up and trolling for NINE
HOURS since about 1 o'clock, you idiotic trolling senile pest! LOL

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rot:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 09:56:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

09:56??? LMAO And you've been up and trolling ALL NIGHT LONG for almost NINE
HOURS by now, you abnormal senile cretin!

--
Bod addressing senile Rot:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
Message-ID:

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:14:51 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the clinically insane senile asshole's latest troll****

10:14??? And you've been up and trolling ALL NIGHT, for OVER NINE HOURS
....so far! Why don't you just take your Nembutal, senile idiot? What are you
waiting for?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

In article ,
lid says...

On 06/12/2019 21:26, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 21:02:54 UTC, ARW wrote:
How do you work out do some of the answers?
Take Q7
I just think easy. 10% is 24, half that and add it to 24.

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember 15% VAT.

Owain


I am old enough to remember purchase tax which was about 40% before it
was replaced by VAT at 15%.

I dont think there was ever a 40% rate but I know that, just
before I left schol, TV tubes carried a 66 2/3% rate! Ouch!

50%, 25%, then the ±10% twiddles so beloved by chancellors, so
we had 55%, 45%, 22.5% and 27.5%!

Because it was levied at the wholesale level and many items
were priced 'plus purchase tax' it was great fun after each
budget calculating the new prices!

--

Terry

In article , Andrew97d-
says...

On 06/12/2019 16:27, Terry Casey wrote:


Assuming a European immigrant, wiring colours were harmonized
50 years ago. And are you suggesting that an immigrant from
anywhere interested in becoming an electrician would not have
bothered to find out how to fit UK plugs to any equipment they
bought with them?

But plug designs are highly variable over Europe, and only
we have 'ring mains'.

What has that got to do with fitting a 13A plug?

--

Terry

Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases. Every
so often you get a good one.

Why doesn't your boss give potential apprentices a simple test
to find out if they have even the slightest knowledge of the
subject they wish to be paid to learn about?

For example:

1. What is the UK mains voltage? (Accept both 240 & 230,
though the latter answer might indicate a better knowledge of
the subject.)

2. What are the colours of the wires in a 3-core mains lead?

L?
N?
E?

3. [Line drawing of the inside of a 13A plug.]

On the drawing, using the letters C, E, F, L & N, show the
Live, Neutral and Earth connections and the position of the
Fuse and Cable clamp.

I'm sure you can think up a few more simple general knowledge
questions in similar vein which would, at least, indicate that
they have a head on their shoulders and are not complete and
utter thickos - which many of your apprentces seemm to be!

They are not simple general knowledge questions, although an interested
person would possibly know, an aptitude for learning and a mechanical
bent is better

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/12/2019 10:04, wrote:
On Thursday, 5 December 2019 23:45:24 UTC, Rod SpeedÂ* wrote:
Cant see that algebra is much use to an electrician.

Of course not, electricians /never/ calculate anything using an
equation do they.

Owain

Electricians don't, no. Electrical engineers, however, do.


What a complete load of rot.

On 06/12/2019 19:15, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 19:00:39 UTC, misterroy wrote:
Before starting an apprentiship, at least in Scotland there is a
test. The electrician one is the hardest. Adam should be seeing
the best that is on offer as far as apprentises go.

Sample test here

http://www.sectt.org.uk/assessment.html

I got 100% but that was with a couple of short-cuts on the mental arithmetic.

Owain




Even I could do that.

Bill

On 06/12/2019 22:59, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/12/2019 21:26, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 21:02:54 UTC, ARWÂ* wrote:
How do you work out do some of the answers?
Take Q7
I just think easy. 10% is 24, half that and add it to 24.

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember 15% VAT.

Owain


I am old enough to remember purchase tax which was about 40% before it
was replaced by VAT at 15%.

I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.

Bill

Paul Herber wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:26:53 +0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 06/12/2019 01:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
Terry Casey wrote:

In article ,
says...

I was born in 1944. I passed the 11 Plus and went to a Church
school, which covered a large area. It was also a Secondary
Modern for the local area. The Grammar side had 3 forms, A, B,
& C whilst the Secondary Modern side had two forms, D & E.

After WWII, 'The Bulge' started. By the time I left school,
the fisrt year extended to 1H!

Of course, not long after I left school and started work, the
bulge started to emerge onto the employment market.

Our Group Scoutmaster used to chat to us older boys after
weekly meetings and gave the lads who were on the verge of
leaving school a warning.

He worked for Van den Bergh & Jurgens (part of Unilever) who
manufactured Stork Margerine in the main.

Their apprenticeships were well respected and sought after and
they were now being inundated with applications, so they had
found a devious way of reducing the numbers.

They held an examination for all applicant, each of whom was
provided with:

A sheet of blotting paper;
A rough sheet;
An answer paper and
A question paper.

At the top of the question paper it said "ALL WORKING MUST BE
SHOWN ON THE ANSWER PAPER".

At the end of the exam, every sheet of paper was collected
from each desk. If anything had been scribbled on any piece of
paper other than the answer paper, it was an instant fail.
The answer paper might have been 100% correct but it wan't
even marked.

Reason for failure? 'Cannot obey a simple instruction.'

That would make sense if they had said all working should be *confned*
to the answer paper. The instructions as you quote them do *not*
forbid doing rough working on the blotter and transcribing it in neater
writing to the answer paper.

That would show you don't know what blotting paper is for, no doubt
important in those days.

Try working it out with a pencil.



Like the constipated mathematician

Brian Reay wrote:
On 06/12/2019 09:21, michael adams wrote:
"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

I was born in 1944. I passed the 11 Plus and went to a Church
school, which covered a large area. It was also a Secondary
Modern for the local area. The Grammar side had 3 forms, A, B,
& C whilst the Secondary Modern side had two forms, D & E.

After WWII, 'The Bulge' started. By the time I left school,
the fisrt year extended to 1H!

Of course, not long after I left school and started work, the
bulge started to emerge onto the employment market.

Our Group Scoutmaster used to chat to us older boys after
weekly meetings and gave the lads who were on the verge of
leaving school a warning.

He worked for Van den Bergh & Jurgens (part of Unilever) who
manufactured Stork Margerine in the main.

Their apprenticeships were well respected and sought after and
they were now being inundated with applications, so they had
found a devious way of reducing the numbers.

They held an examination for all applicant, each of whom was
provided with:

A sheet of blotting paper;
A rough sheet;
An answer paper and
A question paper.

At the top of the question paper it said "ALL WORKING MUST BE
SHOWN ON THE ANSWER PAPER".

At the end of the exam, every sheet of paper was collected
from each desk. If anything had been scribbled on any piece of
paper other than the answer paper, it was an instant fail.
The answer paper might have been 100% correct but it wan't
even marked.

Reason for failure? 'Cannot obey a simple instruction.'

Which is clearly nonsense.

If at the top of the question paper it had said

"ALL WORKING MUST BE SHOWN AND *ONLY* ON THE ANSWER PAPER"

Then fair enough. But it didn't, did it ?

But as it stands had any of the candidates first done their
workings on the rough sheet, and then copied all them exactly
but more neatly on the answer paper, then they'd have
satisfied the instruction.

In fact they might even have been more satisfactory
candidates. As being able to do rough workings (as was
implied by the provision of the rough sheet) in line
with their thought processes, rather than being slowed down
by the need to be neat, and copying out the workings
afterwards would probably be a far better way of
proceeding.

You won't necesarily choose smart people by setting trick
questions. And it is a trick given the provision of a
blank sheet of paper. All you're doing is bolstering the
ego of the smartarse who came up with the flawed idea,


michael adams


In current exams, at least Maths unless it has changed in the last few
years- it is normal that you can't be award the Answer (A) mark if you
don't show the working and also get the associated Method (M) mark(s).

I forget the exact detail but from memory for A level Maths, something
like 80% of the marks are Method (M) marks.
Which would knock out savants.

The mark scheme used generally shows the expected method but alternate,
valid, methods are allowed and will receive the same marks. Depending on
how the exam board works, they sometimes circulate modified mark schemes
with alternate approaches which have appeared.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 06/12/2019 22:59, dennis@home wrote:
On 06/12/2019 21:26, wrote:
On Friday, 6 December 2019 21:02:54 UTC, ARW wrote:
How do you work out do some of the answers?
Take Q7
I just think easy. 10% is 24, half that and add it to 24.

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember 15% VAT.

Owain


I am old enough to remember purchase tax which was about 40% before it
was replaced by VAT at 15%.

I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.

It was repealed in 1851,

You are well past your best by date.

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 14:40:01 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It was repealed in 1851,

You are well past your best by date.

14:40??? Did you have a four hour break from posting, senile idiot? What did
you do during those four hours? Did you try to sleep, did you take your
medication, did you see your psychiatrist? You see, I care, senile fool! LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:58:50 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.

But you wuz too poor to 'ave windows :-)

Owain

On 07/12/2019 09:43, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:58:50 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.

But you wuz too poor to 'ave windows :-)

The legislation for the tax did not define "window". So it could be
construed to apply to any opening in a wall. If the rats had gnawed
enough holes Bill's cardboard box it might have been charged.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
ARW wrote:
When they start with use they cannot use a screwdriver. Things were
different 10 years ago, they get worse every year in most cases.

Blame it on not having a Meccano set as a kid. ;-)

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 07/12/2019 09:43, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:58:50 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.

But you wuz too poor to 'ave windows :-)

Owain

We had the windows but not the glass.

Bill

On 07/12/2019 10:43, Robin wrote:
On 07/12/2019 09:43, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:58:50 UTC, Bill WrightÂ* wrote:
I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.

But you wuz too poor to 'ave windows :-)

The legislation for the tax did not define "window".Â* So it could be
construed to apply to any opening in a wall.Â* If the rats had gnawed
enough holes Bill's cardboard box it might have been charged.



You had a cardboard box? YOU WERE LUCKY!

Bill

In article ,
says...


I'm old enough to remember Window Tax.


Is that the money you pay to Microsoft, Bill?

--

Terry

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , alan_m
wrote:

On 05/12/2019 22:56, Robin wrote:

ISTM such questions would test how much they /already/ know - which
could vary enormously through chance (eg whether or not they had a
parent who did stuff). What the employer wants to know* is whether or
not they have what it takes to /become/ an electrician. I'd have
thought that was better assessed by testing things all school leavers
ought to know - e.g. basic arithmetic, algebra and comprehension.

A decent interview should sort that out. Its not only what they know but
their attitude to actually working.

I'm sure that most reading this group have HAD to fit a mains plug but
these day they all come moulded onto the cable.

In the US you cannot even buy a mains plug, strickly speaking.

Which would be a problem in our village hall, where the three
appliances you are asked to leave disconnected and (for the two
fridges), door open, have their mains cable coming up through the
counter top via a cable-width hole, with the plug above along with the
wall sockets.

simple, enlarge the hole to take one the many desk cable outlets. It's what
I did for our village hall. Kept the fridge's warranty


--

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle