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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem


A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these. https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that hed just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve to
€ścrack open€ť the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its seat,
perhaps because its being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now Im sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way to
produce an upstream €śpressure pulse€ť above the non-return valve I could pop
it off its sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim

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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

On Thursday, 10 October 2019 10:08:08 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these. https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that hed just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve to
€ścrack open€ť the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its seat,
perhaps because its being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now Im sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way to
produce an upstream €śpressure pulse€ť above the non-return valve I could pop
it off its sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim


So fit a mixer tap without the tmv.


NT
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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 09:08:04 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these.
https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for
a mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of
the tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would
produce premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that hed just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve
and now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve
to €ścrack open€ť the first time, after that they seemed to open
reasonably easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its
seat, perhaps because its being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold
water when the outside tap is off.

Now Im sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way
to produce an upstream €śpressure pulse€ť above the non-return valve I
could pop it off its sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he
does like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim



Fit a shut off valve to the cold feed so that the hot side can start to
flow before the cold pressure is added.

That is, turn the mains pressure cold off, turn the mixer on, then slowly
crack open the cold mains.

Possibly only have the cold mains on when the shower is running, turning
it on after the hot is running then off before turning the mixer off.

This might stop the non-return on the hot side having to open against
mains pressure.

A simple gate valve with a handle should do the trick.

Cheers



Dave R


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

David wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 09:08:04 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these.
https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for
a mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of
the tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would
produce premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that hed just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve
and now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve
to €ścrack open€ť the first time, after that they seemed to open
reasonably easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its
seat, perhaps because its being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold
water when the outside tap is off.

Now Im sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way
to produce an upstream €śpressure pulse€ť above the non-return valve I
could pop it off its sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he
does like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim



Fit a shut off valve to the cold feed so that the hot side can start to
flow before the cold pressure is added.


That *might* help but from having felt how tightly the one way valve can
stick to its seat I think the HW pressure is insufficient to overcome the
stickiness.

The other problem is that its more than a tad inconvenient to have to
keeping going inside and outside the house to fiddle with taps.

Tim


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

wrote:
On Thursday, 10 October 2019 10:08:08 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these. https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that hed just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve to
€ścrack open€ť the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its seat,
perhaps because its being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now Im sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way to
produce an upstream €śpressure pulse€ť above the non-return valve I could pop
it off its sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim


So fit a mixer tap without the tmv.


Prefer not to have a mixer tap outside exposed to the risk of frost. I
imagine any internal blender valve (thermostatic or not) will have
non-return valves.

Tim


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

On Thursday, 10 October 2019 11:15:50 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 10 October 2019 10:08:08 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:


A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these. https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that hed just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve to
€ścrack open€ť the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its seat,
perhaps because its being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now Im sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this..
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way to
produce an upstream €śpressure pulse€ť above the non-return valve I could pop
it off its sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim


So fit a mixer tap without the tmv.


Prefer not to have a mixer tap outside exposed to the risk of frost. I


is it somehow worse than a single tap exposed to risk of frost?

imagine any internal blender valve (thermostatic or not) will have
non-return valves.

Tim


and any internal blender valve will scale & fail. Make your choice


NT
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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

Chris Hogg wrote:
On 10 Oct 2019 09:08:04 GMT, Tim+ wrote:


A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these. https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that heÂ’d just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve to
“crack open” the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its seat,
perhaps because itÂ’s being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now IÂ’m sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way to
produce an upstream “pressure pulse” above the non-return valve I could pop
it off itÂ’s sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim


Pressure regulator in the cold feed to the mixer? Something like one
of these http://tinyurl.com/y24eahz4 There's even an H&C pressure
equaliser there.


That might be the easiest option. Thanks, Ill think about it.

Tim

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wrote:


and any internal blender valve will scale & fail. Make your choice


We dont get scale, or at least very very little of it. (SW Scotland).

Tim


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

Tim+ has brought this to us :
Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?


What is the height of the header tank, above the tap?

I fitted one on a downstairs toilet wash basin 8 years ago and its been
absolutely fine. Header tank is in the loft of my semi. I recently
adapted it to provide an outside shower facility for the dogs on my
drive. All works great..
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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:
Tim+ has brought this to us :
Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?


What is the height of the header tank, above the tap?


1960s two storey house, header in the loft. All very conventional. The
pressure should be right range for the valve and when its working, it
works fine. It just seems to be the non-return valves causing issues.

Tim


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

But is that not the whole point of this exercise, so that you don't need to
worry about the temperature?
Brian

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wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 10 October 2019 10:08:08 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one of
these.
https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that he'd just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve
and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the valve
to
"crack open" the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its
seat,
perhaps because it's being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now I'm sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way to
produce an upstream "pressure pulse" above the non-return valve I could
pop
it off it's sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim


So fit a mixer tap without the tmv.


NT


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

I was thinking about scaling. Is it a particular hard water area?
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 10 October 2019 11:15:50 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 10 October 2019 10:08:08 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:


A while back a friend asked me if there was any way he could have a
warm
water supply outside for washing his dog.

As there was easy access to hot and cold supplies inside I fitted one
of
these.
https://www.bes.co.uk/thermostatic-m...-3-15mm-12162?

Before purchase I checked with the manufacturer that it was suitable
for a
mixed mains pressure cold feed and gravity fed HW.

It worked fine for several months but then water stopped coming out of
the
tap. Sometimes if you waited the flow would start and it would produce
premixed warm water. Eventually it stopped working altogether.

Thinking that he'd just been unlucky my friend opted to buy a new valve
and
now a month after fitting the same thing is happening. All rather
annoying.

Before fitting the new valve I blew through the non-return valves and
discovered that they needed a fair bit of pressure to persuade the
valve to
"crack open" the first time, after that they seemed to open reasonably
easily.

It seems likely to me that the HW non-return valve is sticking on its
seat,
perhaps because it's being exposed to reverse mains pressure cold water
when the outside tap is off.

Now I'm sure I could disassemble the things and blow through the valve
again to free it but I would really rather not have to keep doing this.
One thought that occurs to me is that if I could think of a simple way
to
produce an upstream "pressure pulse" above the non-return valve I could
pop
it off it's sticky seat.

Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he
does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

Tim


So fit a mixer tap without the tmv.


Prefer not to have a mixer tap outside exposed to the risk of frost. I


is it somehow worse than a single tap exposed to risk of frost?

imagine any internal blender valve (thermostatic or not) will have
non-return valves.

Tim


and any internal blender valve will scale & fail. Make your choice


NT


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Default Thermostatic mixing valve problem

Chris Hogg wrote:
On 10 Oct 2019 15:18:51 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:
Tim+ has brought this to us :
Long term answer may be to just go back to external H & C taps but he does
like the pre-mixed warm water.

Any suggestions?

What is the height of the header tank, above the tap?


1960s two storey house, header in the loft. All very conventional. The
pressure should be right range for the valve and when itÂ’s working, it
works fine. It just seems to be the non-return valves causing issues.


So remove and eviscerate them, then replace them. Who's to know?


The homeowner would when his loft header tank overflows. The fact that one
seems to be getting jammed, probably due to mains pressure cold water,
suggests that without it back-flow through the HW system would occur.

Tim

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