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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 28/09/2019 21:57, Steve Walker wrote:
On 28/09/2019 19:15, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 18:18:48 UTC+1, Steve WalkerÂ* wrote:
On 28/09/2019 16:28, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 15:41:37 UTC+1, Bill WrightÂ* wrote:
On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green


How will it be enforced? You build a house and have a gas cooker
installed. You don't install a boiler. When the planners etc have all
****ed off you install a gas boiler.

What will the approved alternatives be? Surely not oil! Electric
will be
far too expensive.

Basically the greenies are trying to take us back to the stone age.

Bill

Well sfb it's very simple.Â* In the end there will be no public
distribution of gas, it will be going to highly efficient power
stations.
(There's no point anyway in having gas to your house for a gas
cooker alone.)
Gas boilers will be no longer for sale.

So what will happen to existing housing, that is not well insulated and
cannot easily be so, when the existing boiler fails? How many people
will be able to afford to bring their house up to standard and purchase
and install a ground source heat pump - especially within a couple of
days when the existing system fails?

Homes will be heated using heat pumps. As are quite a few around
already I notice.
And they will have much higher standards of insulation.

Where is this insulation going in an existing house when the boiler
fails and the only replacements are heat pumps?

We have a staircase, kitchen, bathroom and boxroom against the end wall.
We cannot fit insulation on the inside, as the stairs would be
uncomfortably narrowed; the gap between the doorway and the wall in the
boxroom does not allow any loss of space (above about 10mm) without not
being able to fit a wardrobe and desk, that cannot be in any other
position, as they'd then stop the bed being in there at all; equally the
bathroom cannot lose space, as it is tiny and needs every inch.

Putting insulation on the outside would not fit in with the surrounding
housing; would require pipework to be re-arranged; would require the
roof extending and the guttering moving outwards; and would narrow the
driveway past the house making access impossible - I have already had to
take cars that I needed to work on or to store off road while my wife
was ill and could not drive through, with less than 1" clearance on each
side, with the mirrors folded!

SteveW


They will have bigger heat pumps.


Ah, so even more expensive and unaffordable to the average householder,
especially as an emergency purchase.

How many weeks or months to get someone to come and prepare the ground?

As a larger pump, needing more input power and running on expensive
electricity, it is going to push ther bills up even more, when many
cannot afford it now.

SteveW

But Boris has promised we'll have fusion power by 2040 so they will
produce "electricity too cheap to meter". I think I've heard that phrase
before.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks, manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.


My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded. Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in things like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?

--
*Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks, manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.


My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded. Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in things like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?


My wife did a research project at Uni re lead pollution from lead in
petrol. In simple terms, it involved seeing how far from roads the
pollution actually spread.

The distance was amazingly short, 10s of metres, certainly not 100m.

On stretches where the cars were free running (ie not junctions), the
levels were markedly lower. This was around 1977 when leaded petrol was
the norm.

I'm not suggesting lead in petrol was a good thing but the idea it
polluted everywhere is nonsense.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 08:58, Andy Burns wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving people with
older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable unleaded petrol.


There seem to be a slim handful of garages still selling 4*

http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/fuels#outcomes


Oh they made a small exemption, but it is a tiny amount and most people
are not near any of the few garages still stocking it. The point was
more about LRP - how long did that stay in the majority of garages?
Certainly most people now will have little choice but to use unleaded
and an additive on a pre-unleaded car.

SImilarly, once new builds cannot have gas boilers, how long will it be
before manufacturers stop making them or stockists stop stocking them?

SteveW
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks, manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.


My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded. Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in things like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?


What I said was that 4* was phased out, but Lead Replacement Petrol
followed pretty quickly after. Garages simply stopped stocking it, as
sales declined. If new builds cannot have gas boilers, it is likely that
one at a time, manufacturers will stop making them. A point will then
rapidly be reached where they are not available - leaving people with a
failed boiler with a major problem.

SteveW


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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 17:27, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks, manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.


My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded. Any
old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in things
like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?


What I said was that 4* was phased out, but Lead Replacement Petrol
followed pretty quickly after. Garages simply stopped stocking it, as
sales declined. If new builds cannot have gas boilers, it is likely that
one at a time, manufacturers will stop making them. A point will then
rapidly be reached where they are not available - leaving people with a
failed boiler with a major problem.


https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content...tober-2016.pdf

So there are still 23m houses with gas boilers that are not new builds.


--
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 18:02, ARW wrote:
On 29/09/2019 17:27, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks, manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.

My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded.
Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in things
like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?


What I said was that 4* was phased out, but Lead Replacement Petrol
followed pretty quickly after. Garages simply stopped stocking it, as
sales declined. If new builds cannot have gas boilers, it is likely
that one at a time, manufacturers will stop making them. A point will
then rapidly be reached where they are not available - leaving people
with a failed boiler with a major problem.


https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content...tober-2016.pdf


So there are still 23m houses with gas boilers that are not new builds.


Yes, amd that document looks at moving existing housing stock away from
gas boilers - suggesting hybrid systems with a heat pump combined with a
small, top-up boiler (so even more complex and expensive) to adequately
heat existing homes; conversion to Hydrogen (a far more dangerous gas
than natural gas); and more loan facilities to allow people to replace
with heat pumps and upgrade insulation (still a lot more cost for
households - assuming they have a sufficiently good credit rating to
obtain such a loan). It is clear that, although not immediately, they do
intend to move everyone away from natural gas boilers - which will leave
many people, some years down the line, with only a very expensive,
complex and slow to install upgrade instead of a simple replacement, for
a boiler failure.

SteveW
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On Sunday, 29 September 2019 19:03:29 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 18:02, ARW wrote:
On 29/09/2019 17:27, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks, manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.

My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded.
Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in things
like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?

What I said was that 4* was phased out, but Lead Replacement Petrol
followed pretty quickly after. Garages simply stopped stocking it, as
sales declined. If new builds cannot have gas boilers, it is likely
that one at a time, manufacturers will stop making them. A point will
then rapidly be reached where they are not available - leaving people
with a failed boiler with a major problem.


https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content...tober-2016.pdf


So there are still 23m houses with gas boilers that are not new builds.


Yes, amd that document looks at moving existing housing stock away from
gas boilers - suggesting hybrid systems with a heat pump combined with a
small, top-up boiler (so even more complex and expensive) to adequately
heat existing homes; conversion to Hydrogen (a far more dangerous gas
than natural gas); and more loan facilities to allow people to replace
with heat pumps and upgrade insulation (still a lot more cost for
households - assuming they have a sufficiently good credit rating to
obtain such a loan). It is clear that, although not immediately, they do
intend to move everyone away from natural gas boilers - which will leave
many people, some years down the line, with only a very expensive,
complex and slow to install upgrade instead of a simple replacement, for
a boiler failure.

SteveW


yup, if it goes ahead. There will be govt loans for some who can't afford them, of course they won't be able to afford the loan either. The ones that can afford the loan won't get one.
Part P, compulsory noncompatible CFL lights, seller's packs, this might be next.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 28/09/2019 16:28, harry wrote:
And they will have much higher standards of insulation.


So WTF am I to do in my 300 year old listed building?

(Currently oil, and wood when we feel like it)

Andy
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.



"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/2019 16:28, harry wrote:
And they will have much higher standards of insulation.


So WTF am I to do in my 300 year old listed building?


Make it look like it caught fire accidentally and let it burn down.

(Currently oil, and wood when we feel like it)






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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green

I was rather more impressed by the story that he's going to fund the
first fusion power station

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...uclear-fusion/

And this in what was once a reasonably serious and responsible
newspaper. Not my politics of course, but I'd still happily read it.

FFS is he actually clinically insane?


"People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an
election"

Otto von Bismarck
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 28/09/2019 16:29, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 16:06:07 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2019 15:41, Bill Wright wrote:
On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green


How will it be enforced? You build a house and have a gas cooker
installed. You don't install a boiler. When the planners etc have all
****ed off you install a gas boiler.


What will the approved alternatives be? Surely not oil! Electric will be
far too expensive.

Basically the greenies are trying to take us back to the stone age.


That does rather depend on what level insulation is required by the
Future Homes Standard (and whether British housebuilders then actually
deliver it). I'd be happy to live without gas in something that meets
eg Passivhaus standards.

I already have one (and no gas).

And I expect it was built for that purpose. And probably not on a tight
budget.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 11:22, Brian Reay wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 15:41:37 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green

How will it be enforced? You build a house and have a gas cooker
installed. You don't install a boiler. When the planners etc have all
****ed off you install a gas boiler.

What will the approved alternatives be? Surely not oil! Electric will be
far too expensive.

Basically the greenies are trying to take us back to the stone age.

Bill


So currently we burn gas, recovering over 90% of the heat. Instead
someone wants us to turn gas to electricity at around 40% efficiency and
with the cost & ungreeness of building & running power stations, and use
that to hear houses at 3 or 4 times the cost, and either use 2-2.5x as
much gas to do so or drill holes in & freeze the local environment,
affecting home grown food crops. You couldn't make it up.


Be reasonable. A few decades ago, who would have believed wed have a
deranged 16 year old preaching to the UN.

After all, when the Nazis used their pig tailed brats to preach their
propaganda we were disgusted.

Nor should we forget the Nazis were a Socialist party and it is the left
who are abusing the Swedish girl now.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and
from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 21:59, AlexK wrote:


"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
...
On 28/09/2019 16:28, harry wrote:
And they will have much higher standards of insulation.


So WTF am I to do in my 300 year old listed building?


Make it look like it caught fire accidentally and let it burn down.

(Currently oil, and wood when we feel like it)




I've had both the same thoughts (although only 250 years old, and with
gas and wood).
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 19:03, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 18:02, ARW wrote:
On 29/09/2019 17:27, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks,
manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.

My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded.
Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in
things like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?

What I said was that 4* was phased out, but Lead Replacement Petrol
followed pretty quickly after. Garages simply stopped stocking it, as
sales declined. If new builds cannot have gas boilers, it is likely
that one at a time, manufacturers will stop making them. A point will
then rapidly be reached where they are not available - leaving people
with a failed boiler with a major problem.


https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content...tober-2016.pdf


So there are still 23m houses with gas boilers that are not new builds.


Yes, amd that document looks at moving existing housing stock away from
gas boilers - suggesting hybrid systems with a heat pump combined with a
small, top-up boiler (so even more complex and expensive) to adequately
heat existing homes; conversion to Hydrogen (a far more dangerous gas
than natural gas); and more loan facilities to allow people to replace
with heat pumps and upgrade insulation (still a lot more cost for
households - assuming they have a sufficiently good credit rating to
obtain such a loan). It is clear that, although not immediately, they do
intend to move everyone away from natural gas boilers - which will leave
many people, some years down the line, with only a very expensive,
complex and slow to install upgrade instead of a simple replacement, for
a boiler failure.

SteveW


There is actually one precedent for a relatively quick change of
technology, and that that was the London Clean Air Act of 1956 (four
years after the big 1952 smog). As a kid, out two main coal fires were
replaced with Rayburns burning smokeless fuel, one with a back boiler.
That, with the new galvanised hot tank with immersion heater replaced
the open burner "geyser" in the bathroom too. Actually, I don't see why
it should be particularly difficult to design an air source heat pump to
run a modern wet plumbing system although it is going to be quite a bit
bigger than a modern 24 to 36 kW gas boiler. You can potentially hang
quite a lot of the "works" outside with the heat exchanger, of course.
As with diesel cars, it makes more sense to let existing boilers "wear
out" rather than having a use ban date.


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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 06:59:55 +1000, AlexK, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


So WTF am I to do in my 300 year old listed building?


Make it look like it caught fire accidentally and let it burn down.


I sincerely hope this will happen to you when you are lying in your senile
bed, you senile asshole from Oz!

--
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cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 23:01, newshound wrote:
On 29/09/2019 19:03, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 18:02, ARW wrote:
On 29/09/2019 17:27, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/09/2019 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Steve Walker wrote:
It is new build at the moment, but as the market shrinks,
manufacturers
will stop making gas boilers, even if governments don't ban them
completely - look how quickly 4* and then LRP disappeared, leaving
people with older, maybe classic vehicles having to use unsuitable
unleaded petrol.

My old car is 35 years old, yet runs happily on standard unleaded.
Any old
vehicle may need some adaptation to be used today anyway.

But are you saying there was no need to ban the use of lead in
things like
petrol? Just another nutty 'green' thing?

What I said was that 4* was phased out, but Lead Replacement Petrol
followed pretty quickly after. Garages simply stopped stocking it,
as sales declined. If new builds cannot have gas boilers, it is
likely that one at a time, manufacturers will stop making them. A
point will then rapidly be reached where they are not available -
leaving people with a failed boiler with a major problem.


https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-content...tober-2016.pdf


So there are still 23m houses with gas boilers that are not new builds.


Yes, amd that document looks at moving existing housing stock away
from gas boilers - suggesting hybrid systems with a heat pump combined
with a small, top-up boiler (so even more complex and expensive) to
adequately heat existing homes; conversion to Hydrogen (a far more
dangerous gas than natural gas); and more loan facilities to allow
people to replace with heat pumps and upgrade insulation (still a lot
more cost for households - assuming they have a sufficiently good
credit rating to obtain such a loan). It is clear that, although not
immediately, they do intend to move everyone away from natural gas
boilers - which will leave many people, some years down the line, with
only a very expensive, complex and slow to install upgrade instead of
a simple replacement, for a boiler failure.

SteveW


There is actually one precedent for a relatively quick change of
technology, and that that was the London Clean Air Act of 1956 (four
years after the big 1952 smog). As a kid, out two main coal fires were
replaced with Rayburns burning smokeless fuel, one with a back boiler.
That, with the new galvanised hot tank with immersion heater replaced
the open burner "geyser" in the bathroom too. Actually, I don't see why
it should be particularly difficult to design an air source heat pump to
run a modern wet plumbing system although it is going to be quite a bit
bigger than a modern 24 to 36 kW gas boiler. You can potentially hang
quite a lot of the "works" outside with the heat exchanger, of course.
As with diesel cars, it makes more sense to let existing boilers "wear
out" rather than having a use ban date.


But in a normal house, it would require a ground sourced heat pump - air
sourced becomes much less effective at low outside temperatures and will
not be able to heat most existing houses during parts of the winter months.

They also require larger radiators or underfloor heating (due to lower
water tmperatures) - another big expense and disruption ... particularly
for a panic buy when the existing boiler fails.

They are slow to warm up, so will have to be on longer, before the house
warms up in the morning.

They are only suitable for very well insulated homes and not for the
majority of existing properties.

How many households would be able to suddenly afford the typical £13,000
to £20,000 cost of installing a ground source heat pump?

SteveW
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 22:01, newshound wrote:
On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green


I was rather more impressed by the story that he's going to fund the
first fusion power station

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...uclear-fusion/


And this in what was once a reasonably serious and responsible
newspaper. Not my politics of course, but I'd still happily read it.

FFS is he actually clinically insane?


It is an ideal election promise - calculated to draw in the gullible,
far enough away in time that nobody is likely to remember he was
responsible if it fails, but something that he will be remembered for,
should it ever actually happen.

"People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an
election"

Otto von Bismarck



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On 29/09/2019 23:54, Steve Walker wrote:


But in a normal house, it would require a ground sourced heat pump - air
sourced becomes much less effective at low outside temperatures and will
not be able to heat most existing houses during parts of the winter months.

They also require larger radiators or underfloor heating (due to lower
water tmperatures) - another big expense and disruption ... particularly
for a panic buy when the existing boiler fails.

They are slow to warm up, so will have to be on longer, before the house
warms up in the morning.

They are only suitable for very well insulated homes and not for the
majority of existing properties.

How many households would be able to suddenly afford the typical £13,000
to £20,000 cost of installing a ground source heat pump?

SteveW


Current air source ones are optimised for AC rather than heating. I
don't question that they will be more costly both to install and to run.
For much UK housing ground source is simply not going to be available
(short of drilling deep bore-holes, which might just be an option but
not one I am keen on). I'm *not* advocating the idea, just pointing out
that there are precedents. Remember, the heat will eventually make its
way back to the atmosphere and in urban environments that may help a bit.
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On Sunday, 29 September 2019 22:06:58 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 28/09/2019 16:29, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 16:06:07 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 28/09/2019 15:41, Bill Wright wrote:
On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green


How will it be enforced? You build a house and have a gas cooker
installed. You don't install a boiler. When the planners etc have all
****ed off you install a gas boiler.

What will the approved alternatives be? Surely not oil! Electric will be
far too expensive.

Basically the greenies are trying to take us back to the stone age.


That does rather depend on what level insulation is required by the
Future Homes Standard (and whether British housebuilders then actually
deliver it). I'd be happy to live without gas in something that meets
eg Passivhaus standards.

I already have one (and no gas).

And I expect it was built for that purpose. And probably not on a tight
budget.


No it was a DIY conversion. It was expensive but included a lot of other work.


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On Saturday, 28 September 2019 21:57:34 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 28/09/2019 19:15, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 18:18:48 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 28/09/2019 16:28, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 28 September 2019 15:41:37 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 28/09/2019 13:30, harry wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Johnson-green

How will it be enforced? You build a house and have a gas cooker
installed. You don't install a boiler. When the planners etc have all
****ed off you install a gas boiler.

What will the approved alternatives be? Surely not oil! Electric will be
far too expensive.

Basically the greenies are trying to take us back to the stone age.

Bill

Well sfb it's very simple. In the end there will be no public distribution of gas, it will be going to highly efficient power stations.
(There's no point anyway in having gas to your house for a gas cooker alone.)
Gas boilers will be no longer for sale.

So what will happen to existing housing, that is not well insulated and
cannot easily be so, when the existing boiler fails? How many people
will be able to afford to bring their house up to standard and purchase
and install a ground source heat pump - especially within a couple of
days when the existing system fails?

Homes will be heated using heat pumps. As are quite a few around already I notice.
And they will have much higher standards of insulation.

Where is this insulation going in an existing house when the boiler
fails and the only replacements are heat pumps?

We have a staircase, kitchen, bathroom and boxroom against the end wall.
We cannot fit insulation on the inside, as the stairs would be
uncomfortably narrowed; the gap between the doorway and the wall in the
boxroom does not allow any loss of space (above about 10mm) without not
being able to fit a wardrobe and desk, that cannot be in any other
position, as they'd then stop the bed being in there at all; equally the
bathroom cannot lose space, as it is tiny and needs every inch.

Putting insulation on the outside would not fit in with the surrounding
housing; would require pipework to be re-arranged; would require the
roof extending and the guttering moving outwards; and would narrow the
driveway past the house making access impossible - I have already had to
take cars that I needed to work on or to store off road while my wife
was ill and could not drive through, with less than 1" clearance on each
side, with the mirrors folded!

SteveW


They will have bigger heat pumps.


Ah, so even more expensive and unaffordable to the average householder,
especially as an emergency purchase.

How many weeks or months to get someone to come and prepare the ground?

As a larger pump, needing more input power and running on expensive
electricity, it is going to push ther bills up even more, when many
cannot afford it now.


Not everyone is a **** poor whinging socialist.
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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
My wife did a research project at Uni re lead pollution from lead in
petrol. In simple terms, it involved seeing how far from roads the
pollution actually spread.


The distance was amazingly short, 10s of metres, certainly not 100m.


Nicely inside just about every house in a town. And on every pavement an
playground etc.

But I'd guess your wife has never been in a town?

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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Certainly most people now will have little choice but to use unleaded
and an additive on a pre-unleaded car.


FFS. In this time I'd expect they'd have had their car modified.

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Default Gas boiler ban brought forward.

On 29/09/2019 17:21, Steve Walker wrote:

SImilarly, once new builds cannot have gas boilers, how long will it be
before manufacturers stop making them or stockists stop stocking them?


The market will still be there for replacements in millions of homes so
until there is a decision to turn off domestic gas to the masses things
will go on as normal. It may be in our drive towards a zero CO2 society
the demand for "clean" electricity exceeds capacity and gas for CH will
remain viable for much longer. If you listen to certain politicians all
available land and foreshore will be covered with windmills and all gas
and coal power stations will be closed in the next few years.


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On 30/09/2019 12:41, newshound wrote:

Current air source ones are optimised for AC rather than heating.


That's because they are more efficient when the air is hotter therefore
much better for cooling your home in the summer. They are more suited to
hotter countries where AC is common place.

don't question that they will be more costly both to install and to run.
For much UK housing ground source is simply not going to be available
(short of drilling deep bore-holes, which might just be an option but
not one I am keen on).


On a new build this is what needs to happen as on most modern estates
houses have near zero garden area. A horizontal system may require in
excess of 800 square metres. Ground sourced pumps need to be carefully
designed to achieve a thermal balance and not to actually cool the
ground faster than it can recover. There must be a limit to how many
boreholes you can sink, for multiple houses on an estate, in a
relatively small area.

And then there is the threat of ground water pollution, perhaps longer
term, as these systems become old.


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