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Default Solar payments not as promised:(

On 11/09/2019 07:26, harry wrote:

€œWhat we are saying that if you have the solar panels facing east-west then you can even out the power during the day. You may lose about 10 per cent of power if you go east-west but this addresses a problem that exists in Germany where because everything is facing south, you get this peak power at midday which is very difficult for the grid to cope with.


Is this 10% reduction in output only true in the Summer months?


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  #42   Report Post  
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On 10/09/2019 17:43, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 16:30:46 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 10/09/2019 15:56, Jonathan wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 11:08:04 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 16:22:39 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 11:48:02 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49566130
--

None of these stories says how big the array is so it's hard to comment.
The picture looks like around 2Kw,
When they are installed the owner is provided with an assessment of expected Kwh/year generated.

My first 4Kw array cost £14,000 and generates £2000/year so it's paid for itself recently.
My newer array was £6000 but only generates £500/year.

why such a difference ?
If £14K gives you £2k per year = £7k = £1k per year
then why does £6k = £500 per year

has the sun become less bright over the last few years or is it global warming ?


I have near perfect orientation. Someone who hasn't might get a lot less.

So if the arrays are differnt what is this difference ?

Generation tariffs have reduced significantly over the past ten years. We spent £20K on ours about 10 years ago and get a bit over £1K pa but we are paid 54.17p per unit generated and an extra 3.82p for allegedly exporting 50% of them. I must say that I didn't notice a reduction in our electricity bills when we had them installed but most of the power is generated in the afternoon when we don't use much.

Jonathan


A BIG question is what happens when the panels are 25+ years old ?.
Wventually they will head for landfill, but because of the cadmium
and other nasties they contain, they might by that time be classofied as
dangerous waste, like asbestos.

You might possibly discover that removal by a licensed waste
contractor wipes out most if not all the 'profit' you have made.

Cue the PPI firms -

"did you spend £18K on solar panels but not told of the expensive
disposal costs ?. Phone 0800-line-our-pockets to get Compo"



https://www.theguardian.com/environm...d-solar-panels

In seven years I have detected no change in the output.


You will when they are end-of-life.
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Default Solar payments not as promised:(


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:57:01 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Steve Walker
writes
Not necessarily.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...0996273/Most-s
olar-panels-are-facing-the-wrong-direction-say-scientists.html

My known mathematical limitations or Telegraph?

Average production 3700kWhr/yr at 14.38p/kWh = £785?


But from the householder's POV, e.g. Harry, they should be oriented S
to get the maximum sunshine/electricity. AIUI the proposal that they
should be E or W is to spread their output through the day for the
benefit of the grid: one house has them E, the neighbour has them W
etc.


Again highlighting what a dead loss solar is, at least here. To use it
effectively you have to reduce its already poor output, even more.


The problem is that Solar produces *too much energy* under opitimum conditions
which then ties up capital in battery capacity. Short of installing rorating panels
it makes sense not to invest capital in panels which produce energy which exceeds
immediate demand but in less efficent panels which produce energy which
doesn't exceed demand.

This is obviously a simplification as solar is used in combination with other
sources but the basic principle should be fairly easy to understand.


michael adams

....


  #44   Report Post  
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Default Solar payments not as promised:(

On 11/09/2019 12:11, michael adams wrote:
The problem is that Solar produces*too much energy* under opitimum conditions

ROFLMAO!

Christ te dunces cap is stuck on you today,.


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  #45   Report Post  
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Default Solar payments not as promised:(

On 11/09/2019 07:26, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:30:33 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 10/09/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 11:08:04 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 16:22:39 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 11:48:02 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49566130
--

None of these stories says how big the array is so it's hard to comment.
The picture looks like around 2Kw,
When they are installed the owner is provided with an assessment of expected Kwh/year generated.

My first 4Kw array cost £14,000 and generates £2000/year so it's paid for itself recently.
My newer array was £6000 but only generates £500/year.

why such a difference ?
If £14K gives you £2k per year = £7k = £1k per year
then why does £6k = £500 per year

has the sun become less bright over the last few years or is it global warming ?

The price paid/Kwh reduced as time went on.


I have near perfect orientation. Someone who hasn't might get a lot less.

So if the arrays are differnt what is this difference ?

Perfect orientation is pointing South, 36deg inclination plus no shading. (To maximise power generated/year.)

Anything different reduces annual output.


Not necessarily.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...cientists.html



You didn't read that did you?
quote
Professor Michael Walls, of Loughborough University said: €œThere are half a million installations in the UK facing south. To maximise the amount of power produced by those panels, facing south is correct.

€œWhat we are saying that if you have the solar panels facing east-west then you can even out the power during the day. You may lose about 10 per cent of power if you go east-west but this addresses a problem that exists in Germany where because everything is facing south, you get this peak power at midday which is very difficult for the grid to cope with.

€œSo in Germany they are advising people to go east-west so they are smoothing out the supply of power from all these solar panels. We get similar spikes of power too, although it wouldnt make sense for people to change their solar panels if they have already been installed.
unquote

I'm maximising power/income.


Did you read the rest?

"In November, American research revealed that panels facing west may
actually get more energy from the sun, and at more convenient times."

"Scientists found that when homeowners faced their panels west they were
able to generate more electricity each day."

It is not clear whether the second paracgraph refers to the first or
whether it refers more generally to the days over the year.

SteveW


  #46   Report Post  
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Default Solar payments not as promised:(

On 11/09/2019 09:11, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:57:01 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Steve Walker
writes
Not necessarily.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...0996273/Most-s
olar-panels-are-facing-the-wrong-direction-say-scientists.html


My known mathematical limitations or Telegraph?

Average production 3700kWhr/yr at 14.38p/kWh = £785?


But from the householder's POV, e.g. Harry, they should be oriented S
to get the maximum sunshine/electricity. AIUI the proposal that they
should be E or W is to spread their output through the day for the
benefit of the grid: one house has them E, the neighbour has them W
etc.


That's not quite what it says. Part says that it produces more power
during the day, as well as being at more useful times.

Admittedly, the article is not clear whether the more per day is only at
certain times of year or averaged through the year. Hence why I put "not
necessarily".

SteveW

  #47   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 466
Default Solar payments not as promised:(

On 11/09/2019 09:11, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:57:01 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Steve Walker
writes
Not necessarily.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...0996273/Most-s
olar-panels-are-facing-the-wrong-direction-say-scientists.html


My known mathematical limitations or Telegraph?

Average production 3700kWhr/yr at 14.38p/kWh = £785?


But from the householder's POV, e.g. Harry, they should be oriented S
to get the maximum sunshine/electricity. AIUI the proposal that they
should be E or W is to spread their output through the day for the
benefit of the grid: one house has them E, the neighbour has them W
etc.


This may be what an environmentally knowledgeable person might do but
not a money grabbing harry.
They should have has a lower fit rate for south facing arrays.
Maybe they still could when the new scheme comes in next year?

  #48   Report Post  
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Posts: 9,066
Default Solar payments not as promised:(

On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 20:44:38 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 11/09/2019 07:26, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 21:30:33 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 10/09/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 11:08:04 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 16:22:39 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 11:48:02 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49566130
--

None of these stories says how big the array is so it's hard to comment.
The picture looks like around 2Kw,
When they are installed the owner is provided with an assessment of expected Kwh/year generated.

My first 4Kw array cost £14,000 and generates £2000/year so it's paid for itself recently.
My newer array was £6000 but only generates £500/year.

why such a difference ?
If £14K gives you £2k per year = £7k = £1k per year
then why does £6k = £500 per year

has the sun become less bright over the last few years or is it global warming ?

The price paid/Kwh reduced as time went on.


I have near perfect orientation. Someone who hasn't might get a lot less.

So if the arrays are differnt what is this difference ?

Perfect orientation is pointing South, 36deg inclination plus no shading. (To maximise power generated/year.)

Anything different reduces annual output.

Not necessarily.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...cientists.html



You didn't read that did you?
quote
Professor Michael Walls, of Loughborough University said: €œThere are half a million installations in the UK facing south. To maximise the amount of power produced by those panels, facing south is correct.

€œWhat we are saying that if you have the solar panels facing east-west then you can even out the power during the day. You may lose about 10 per cent of power if you go east-west but this addresses a problem that exists in Germany where because everything is facing south, you get this peak power at midday which is very difficult for the grid to cope with.

€œSo in Germany they are advising people to go east-west so they are smoothing out the supply of power from all these solar panels. We get similar spikes of power too, although it wouldnt make sense for people to change their solar panels if they have already been installed.
unquote

I'm maximising power/income.


Did you read the rest?

"In November, American research revealed that panels facing west may
actually get more energy from the sun, and at more convenient times."

"Scientists found that when homeowners faced their panels west they were
able to generate more electricity each day."

It is not clear whether the second paracgraph refers to the first or
whether it refers more generally to the days over the year.

SteveW


That bit is bollix.
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