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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric heaters
plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without boiling
kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 07/09/2019 13:47, R D S wrote:
Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric heaters
plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without boiling
kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.


How long do you expect to be there?

If the answer is less than 5 years, then go for whatever is cheap / on
offer. For something longer term, then one of the more recognisable
brands like WB, Vaillant etc. Unless you are fitting it yourself, it
might just come down to whatever the proffered offering of the installer
it.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 07/09/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2019 13:47, R D S wrote:
Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric
heaters plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without
boiling kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.


How long do you expect to be there?

If the answer is less than 5 years, then go for whatever is cheap / on
offer. For something longer term, then one of the more recognisable
brands like WB, Vaillant etc. Unless you are fitting it yourself, it
might just come down to whatever the proffered offering of the installer
it.


I'll fit it and should the need arise fix it myself.

Are the better brands worth it in this scenario? I don't want something
breaking down all the time but don't need it bombproof.

I might be pushing luck but I've had nearly 25 years out of 2 sub £500
boilers at home without too much bother.
(A Savio and a Biasi Riva)
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2019 13:47, R D S wrote:
Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric
heaters plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without
boiling kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.

How long do you expect to be there?
If the answer is less than 5 years, then go for whatever is cheap /
on offer. For something longer term, then one of the more
recognisable brands like WB, Vaillant etc. Unless you are fitting it
yourself, it might just come down to whatever the proffered offering
of the installer it.


I'll fit it and should the need arise fix it myself.

Are the better brands worth it in this scenario? I don't want something
breaking down all the time but don't need it bombproof.

I might be pushing luck but I've had nearly 25 years out of 2 sub £500
boilers at home without too much bother.
(A Savio and a Biasi Riva)


I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work now
sat on a pallet, looking for a home.

Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.

--
Tim Lamb
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:13:42 UTC+1, R D S wrote:
On 07/09/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2019 13:47, R D S wrote:
Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric
heaters plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without
boiling kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.


How long do you expect to be there?

If the answer is less than 5 years, then go for whatever is cheap / on
offer. For something longer term, then one of the more recognisable
brands like WB, Vaillant etc. Unless you are fitting it yourself, it
might just come down to whatever the proffered offering of the installer
it.


I'll fit it and should the need arise fix it myself.

Are the better brands worth it in this scenario? I don't want something
breaking down all the time but don't need it bombproof.

I might be pushing luck but I've had nearly 25 years out of 2 sub £500
boilers at home without too much bother.
(A Savio and a Biasi Riva)


Vaillant & Worcester Bosch are the only relatively reliable ones. I wouldn't fit anything else. A second hand one might be worth considering.

For curiosity's sake only, there are Chinese boilers that cost under £100. From what I can tell they appear to be flueless, judging by the caution not to use them too long or they'll kill you. I'm not recommending one

25 year old boilers are a very different design to new ones. No new one is likely to last that well.


NT


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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 08/09/2019 09:36, Robin wrote:
On 08/09/2019 07:49, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:13:42 UTC+1, R D SÂ* wrote:
On 07/09/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2019 13:47, R D S wrote:
Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric
heaters plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without
boiling kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.

How long do you expect to be there?

If the answer is less than 5 years, then go for whatever is cheap / on
offer. For something longer term, then one of the more recognisable
brands like WB, Vaillant etc. Unless you are fitting it yourself, it
might just come down to whatever the proffered offering of the
installer
it.


I'll fit it and should the need arise fix it myself.

Are the better brands worth it in this scenario? I don't want something
breaking down all the time but don't need it bombproof.

I might be pushing luck but I've had nearly 25 years out of 2 sub £500
boilers at home without too much bother.
(A Savio and a Biasi Riva)


Vaillant & Worcester Bosch are the only relatively reliable ones. I
wouldn't fit anything else. A second hand one might be worth considering.


The Which? survey of just the odd 10,000 owners of boilers found
Viessmann the most reliable brand.


But they found availability of parts less good than WB. OTOH, they found
Viessman easier to repair common faults .....
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:

I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work now
sat on a pallet, looking for a home.

Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.

But cheers.
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In article ,
Robin wrote:
The Which? survey of just the odd 10,000 owners of boilers found
Viessmann the most reliable brand.


I wasn't looking for a short term fix since I've no intention of moving
house.

So went for a Viessmann. Self install - replacing a BF BE Potterton which
was about 25 years old. The old boiler still working OK, but a good time
to update when doing other works. It's a medium sized Victorian house, so
fairly high heating costs. Which means a more efficient boiler might
recover its cost sooner than in more modern houses.

I got a much better deal on the boiler via Ebay than from my local
Viessmann dealer. About 25% cheaper, and free delivery.

The Viessmann help line was very good for any queries I had with my self
install, and with setting up the software for the weather compensation I
opted for. (New versions should be easier)

Only had the one problem with it - after about 10 years use. There is a
rubber hose between the heat exchanger and copper pipe which failed.
Subsequent leak took out the gas valve electrics. And blew a fuse on the
PCB - a solder job to replace. The hose appeared to be silicone rubber, so
likely not a common failure. Such hoses on car rads can do the life of the
car.

Interestingly, the supplied manual didn't show this hose. The copper pipe
going direct to the heat exchanger in that. I'd guess it was added to
further improve NVH. It is a pretty quiet device.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In article ,
GB wrote:
The Which? survey of just the odd 10,000 owners of boilers found
Viessmann the most reliable brand.


But they found availability of parts less good than WB. OTOH, they found
Viessman easier to repair common faults .....


I used a postal spares service for my Viessmann. Every single part seemed
to be in stock. Next day delivery.

One nice point about the design was the PCB included soldered in fuses for
every single output etc from it. Meaning it less likely to get damaged
beyond economic repair with a fault elsewhere.

I do realise that's not going to help most who just get a man in to fix
things. Most plumbers wouldn't know where to start with fixing a PCB. And
a new one costs and arm and a leg.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.
Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.

But cheers.


OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage and
then too small for the expected load when we extended.

Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.

--
Tim Lamb
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 08/09/2019 13:11, R D S wrote:
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:

I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.

Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.


There are pallet collection services that will go pickup stuff like that
for you...


--
Cheers,

John.

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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.
Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.

But cheers.


OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage and
then too small for the expected load when we extended.


Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.


I did one in 1988, boiler still going strong.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 08/09/2019 13:11, R D S wrote:
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:

I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.

Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.

Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could
fit that in in the near future.


There are pallet collection services that will go pickup stuff like
that for you...


I'm game. Without an exact from/to address the first one I looked
refused to quote.
Somewhere between 25 and 100ukp.



--
Tim Lamb
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On Sunday, 8 September 2019 17:24:51 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 08/09/2019 13:11, R D S wrote:
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:

I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.

Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.

Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could
fit that in in the near future.


There are pallet collection services that will go pickup stuff like
that for you...


I'm game. Without an exact from/to address the first one I looked
refused to quote.
Somewhere between 25 and 100ukp.


£50 is typical for not too much on the pallet.


NT


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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.
Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.

But cheers.


OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage and
then too small for the expected load when we extended.


Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.


I did one in 1988, boiler still going strong.


Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some wiring.

--
*You can't teach an old mouse new clicks *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 09/09/2019 00:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
now sat on a pallet, looking for a home.
Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.

But cheers.


OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage and
then too small for the expected load when we extended.


Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.


I did one in 1988, boiler still going strong.


Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some wiring.


If the latest one was a condenser, how did you check the flue gases ?.
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 08/09/2019 07:49, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:13:42 UTC+1, R D S wrote:
On 07/09/2019 14:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/09/2019 13:47, R D S wrote:
Our electric bills at work were sky high last year with electric
heaters plugged in around the place, and we've no hot water without
boiling kettles so...

Which boiler would you buy? Something 20odd KW, no bells and whistles.

How long do you expect to be there?

If the answer is less than 5 years, then go for whatever is cheap / on
offer. For something longer term, then one of the more recognisable
brands like WB, Vaillant etc. Unless you are fitting it yourself, it
might just come down to whatever the proffered offering of the installer
it.


I'll fit it and should the need arise fix it myself.

Are the better brands worth it in this scenario? I don't want something
breaking down all the time but don't need it bombproof.

I might be pushing luck but I've had nearly 25 years out of 2 sub £500
boilers at home without too much bother.
(A Savio and a Biasi Riva)


Vaillant & Worcester Bosch are the only relatively reliable ones. I wouldn't fit anything else. A second hand one might be worth considering.

For curiosity's sake only, there are Chinese boilers that cost under £100. From what I can tell they appear to be flueless, judging by the caution not to use them too long or they'll kill you. I'm not recommending one

25 year old boilers are a very different design to new ones. No new one is likely to last that well.


People said that about Biasi combis, which B&Q used to sell 20 years
ago, but I keep hearing stories of ones lasting 25 years.


NT



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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 09/09/2019 00:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , R D S
writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years
work now sat on a pallet, looking for a home. Yours for fetching
(Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could
fit that in in the near future.

But cheers.


OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage
and then too small for the expected load when we extended.


Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.


I did one in 1988, boiler still going strong.


Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some wiring.


If the latest one was a condenser, how did you check the flue gases ?.


It does it automatically. Flu gas analyser. Don't most these days?

But it's hardly expensive to have it checked after installation.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On 08/09/2019 14:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
Â*I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years work
nowÂ* sat on a pallet, looking for a home.
Â*Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could fit
that in in the near future.

But cheers.


OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage and
then too small for the expected load when we extended.

Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.


The pump will be seized?

--
Adam


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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In message , ARW
writes
On 08/09/2019 14:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , R D S writes
On 07/09/2019 15:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
*I have a *young* Potterton precision boiler, done about 3 years
work now* sat on a pallet, looking for a home.
*Yours for fetching (Herts.) plus filter and new flue.


Sadly you'd be about an 8 hour round trip and i'm not sure I could
fit that in in the near future.

But cheers.

OK. Worth a try. It was a BG installed replacement for the cottage
and then too small for the expected load when we extended.
Not many d-i-y folk willing to do a gas boiler install.


The pump will be seized?

Pass. I emptied out the water but inevitably there will be some residue
from wall hung steel radiators.
Not a problem with plastic pipe underfloor heating:-)


--
Tim Lamb
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

On Monday, 9 September 2019 14:11:49 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 09/09/2019 00:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some wiring.


If the latest one was a condenser, how did you check the flue gases ?.


The key thing is to follow the manufacturer's instructions fully. If a flue gas analysis isn't part of the detailed installation and commissioning instructions, then it isn't. For these Viessmanns, it wasn't.
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On 10/09/2019 09:23, David wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 14:11:49 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 09/09/2019 00:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some
wiring.


If the latest one was a condenser, how did you check the flue gases
?.


The key thing is to follow the manufacturer's instructions fully. If
a flue gas analysis isn't part of the detailed installation and
commissioning instructions, then it isn't. For these Viessmanns, it
wasn't.


ISTR on mine there was a statement along the line of "No need to do a
gas analysis, we have set this up right and tested it already, don't
fiddle with it!" (although more Teutonic obviously).

I think more recent versions of the installation instructions now say:
do a gas analysis, but talk to Vaillant tech support if anything is wrong.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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Default Which boiler to buy, reliable - nowt fancy....

In article ,
David wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 14:11:49 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 09/09/2019 00:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some wiring.


If the latest one was a condenser, how did you check the flue gases ?.


The key thing is to follow the manufacturer's instructions fully. If a
flue gas analysis isn't part of the detailed installation and
commissioning instructions, then it isn't. For these Viessmanns, it
wasn't.


I dunno why so many are frightened of doing a self install. Assuming they
already have half decent plumbing skills. It generally saves a great deal
of money - far more than most DIY tasks that take the same sort of time.

And, of course, with a system boiler it's a great deal simpler than at one
time. Mine took longer as the flow share valve was originally on the hot
water cylinder. On the opposite side of the room. And I changed from open
vented to sealed. Just swapping a like for like design, much easier.

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 10/09/2019 09:23, David wrote:
On Monday, 9 September 2019 14:11:49 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 09/09/2019 00:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Did both of mine. It's only plumbing, after all. And some
wiring.


If the latest one was a condenser, how did you check the flue gases
?.


The key thing is to follow the manufacturer's instructions fully. If
a flue gas analysis isn't part of the detailed installation and
commissioning instructions, then it isn't. For these Viessmanns, it
wasn't.


ISTR on mine there was a statement along the line of "No need to do a
gas analysis, we have set this up right and tested it already, don't
fiddle with it!" (although more Teutonic obviously).


I think more recent versions of the installation instructions now say:
do a gas analysis, but talk to Vaillant tech support if anything is
wrong.


I dunno if it's been replaced by some auto system now, but when I did my
install, the tech help was superb. From an actual human on the phone. And
I made it clear it was a DIY install. (Only thing I needed help with was
adding the mods for weather compensation)

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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