On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.

And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk, we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.

Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.


And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment media
and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted to leave
by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we know
manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.


--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.

And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk, we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.

Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.


And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment media
and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted to leave
by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we know
manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.


Democracy for the dead, right? LOL

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8541971.html

Leave voters dying and Remainers reaching voting age means majority will
soon oppose Brexit, study finds

Demographic changes mean number of Remain supporters grows by 235,000 each
year, while number of Leave backers falls by 260,000

A majority of British voters will soon back staying in the EU as more Leave
backers die and Remain supporters reach voting age, according to a new
study.

Analysis by the former president of YouGov found demographic changes mean
around half a million fewer people each year, or around 1,350 a day, now
support Brexit €“ meaning there will soon be enough to overturn the Brexit
vote if there was a second referendum.

Even if no one had changed their mind since the 2016 referendum, population
changes mean that, from 19 January 2019, a majority of voters will back
staying in the EU, according to the analysis. By 29 March, when Britain is
due to leave the bloc, the Remain side is forecast to have a majority of
around 100,000.

Peter Kellner, YouGovs former president, said the finding supported calls
for the public to be given a Final Say on Brexit.

Writing for The Independent, he said: €œEarly next year, Britain will switch
from a pro-Brexit to an anti-Brexit country. To be more precise: if not a
single voter in the referendum two years ago changes their mind, enough
mainly Leave voters will have died and enough mainly Remain voters will
have reached voting age to wipe out the Leave majority achieved in June
2016.

€œThis means that by 29 March, it will be difficult to sustain the argument
that the settled view of the British electorate is that Brexit should take
place. We are told that we should €˜respect the verdict of the people, and
not reopen the decision they €“ we €“ reached in 2016.

€œThe latest research shows that this depends not only on the proposition
that voters cannot change their minds, but on a specific definition of €˜the
people.€�

--
M0TEY // STC
www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk,
we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted to
leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we know
manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.



--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those who
voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those entitled
to
vote being in favour or whatever.
And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk, we
lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment media
and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted to leave by
any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we know
manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer vote
and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no deal
was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution


tim

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega Â* wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
Â*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk,
we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Â*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 16:22:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment media
and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted to leave
by any means possible.

When you change from the status quo, the questions are going to be
focused on the validity of the *change*, not the status quo.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,

Because it wasn't democracy, it was a *******ised, lie ridden
deceitful clusterfcuk.

That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we know
manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

Nope, MP's doing their duty and tasking the minority who did to
justify themselves.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Nearly. It was never about Brexit, it was about blinkered racism and
an ignorance of the bigger picture.

These racists want 'all the foreigners to go home' ... except those
who wash their cars, dress their wounds, deliver their food, pick
their crops ...

It's all down to simplistic / blinkered idealism without any real
understanding of how the world actually works.

So, we only allow people in who earn more than £30Kpa ... except for
all the millions of the jobs that we need done and where they
typically never earn anything like that. 'Oh, we can make exceptions
for those' so what *exactly* has changed then?

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega * wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said “Ok,
we lost.
Let’s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way”.
*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border.

There was a hard border before the EU. It was devised by Britain and
the army posts were manned by the British. It took the EU and the US
to sort the problem. Then as now the British government were clueless
and had to be led by countries with an established educational system.

Any new split will see the return of that fiasco.

Ireland has to keep out the disgusting crud that will flood into
Britain. It will also need to keep goods out of the EU that have been
produced using low paid zero rights workers.

I know that many Brexit knuckledraggers find the concept of a single
market and customs union difficult to grasp, but it's what Brexit was
all about. The fact that you are too thick to understand it means that
the Sun and Mail had to use big words like soveriegnty and phrases
like taking back control to convince you to reliquish your rights and
swell the coffers of the already well to do.

AB

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega * wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said “Ok,
we lost.
Let’s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way”.
*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.

Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega Â* wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
Â*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said “Ok,
we lost.
Let’s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way”.
Â*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


It really amuses me to see how eager Brian is for international law to be
broken. So much for him being Mr Law and Order, eh?

--
M0TEY // STC
www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur

Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega Â* wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
Â*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said “Ok,
we lost.
Let’s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way”.
Â*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

Brian Reay wrote:
Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega Â* wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
Â*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said “Ok,
we lost.
Let’s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way”.
Â*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

Without a customs union and full alignment on regulations between the UK
and EU, what else can there be other than a hard border between Ireland and
Northern Ireland, Brian? I mean, I know youve got no clue; no-one has,
tbh, as its an impossible question and is exactly what has completely
stumped first Mays and now Johnsons governments.

And all thats quite aside from the cold, hard fact that erecting a border
goes against the GFA, which is international law and the Americans have
rather gruffly said that they wont tolerate it being ****ed with. So its
the Yanks rather than the Europeans dicking it all up, isnt it, Brian?

Whats the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe were going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

--
M0TEY // STC
www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur

On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:
Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega Â* wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
Â*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said “Ok,
we lost.
Let’s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way”.
Â*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

Without a customs union and full alignment on regulations between the UK
and EU, what else can there be other than a hard border between Ireland and
Northern Ireland, Brian? I mean, I know youve got no clue; no-one has,
tbh, as its an impossible question and is exactly what has completely
stumped first Mays and now Johnsons governments.

And all thats quite aside from the cold, hard fact that erecting a border
goes against the GFA, which is international law and the Americans have
rather gruffly said that they wont tolerate it being ****ed with. So its
the Yanks rather than the Europeans dicking it all up, isnt it, Brian?

The GFA just requires "normalising" of the border. A normal border does
have customs controls and the like, but does not have or need army
infrastructure, control or watch-towers - unless a small section of the
community make trouble requiring it!

Whats the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe were going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.

SteveW

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 06:00:33 +0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega * wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said ?Ok,
we lost.
Let?s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way?.
*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

You really dont have a clue about the EU and single market do you?

The EU didn't make the problem, Britain did.

The Irish backstop is the most publicised result, but there will be
major implications for British Business all over the UK.

Ireland is a fairly clear "cause ond effect" prediction. You
knuckledraggers really are in total ignorance of the repercussions of
not being in a single market and customs union aren't you?


And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

:-) The bit the knuckledraggers can fall back on. If you are too
thick to understand what's going on, if the lies you have been fed
dont quite stand up to the analysis by whatever brain cell you have
spare that still has functionality, go for the safe "us and them"
approach.

Everything becomes easy and all the hard bits get knocked into remain
and leave factions.


You want my opinion knuckledragger? Probably not, but here it is. Get
out, good riddance, clean up Europe and take Farage and his retards
with you too.

Ireland will sort it's problems out. It has an educational system and
leaders that are not a national embarrasment.

AB

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 08:43:28 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:
Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega * wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said ?Ok,
we lost.
Let?s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way?.
*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

Without a customs union and full alignment on regulations between the UK
and EU, what else can there be other than a hard border between Ireland and
Northern Ireland, Brian? I mean, I know you’ve got no clue; no-one has,
tbh, as it’s an impossible question and is exactly what has completely
stumped first May’s and now Johnson’s governments.

And all that’s quite aside from the cold, hard fact that erecting a border
goes against the GFA, which is international law and the Americans have
rather gruffly said that they won’t tolerate it being ****ed with. So it’s
the Yanks rather than the Europeans dicking it all up, isn’t it, Brian?

The GFA just requires "normalising" of the border. A normal border does
have customs controls and the like, but does not have or need army
infrastructure, control or watch-towers - unless a small section of the
community make trouble requiring it!

What’s the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe we’re going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.

SteveW

You really are a thick knuckledragger, every one of those points has
been shot down. Why didn't you hold the government to account idiot?
It wasn't the EU that gave immigrants free reign. Why do you think
they were lined up in France looking to get to the UK?

France has an Government too, France is in the EU.

I just cannot believe these thick pillocks were allowed to vote. If
under 18's cannot vote in the UK, why do they allow people with a
mental age of less than half that screw the country up.

ROTFWL

AB

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

The GFA just requires "normalising" of the border.

It requires rather more than that.



127.Strand two of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement established
the North/South Ministerial Council which brings together ministers
from both governments "to develop consultation, co-operation and
action" on an all-island and cross-border basis.308 The Council
agreed six areas of cooperation under the Agreement; agriculture,
education, environment, health, tourism and transport.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../329/32907.htm

Agriculture is the biggest sticking point. How can there be cross-border
co-operation on agriculture if cattle and sheep in a field would
be subject to 25% and 75% tarrifs (or whatever) if they're simply
moved into
the next field ?

Boris's solution to this, at the insistence of the DUP was that the
NI Assembly in which they expected to have a majority for years to
come could simply scrap or veto any such proposed solution whenever
they chose. Which the EU won't wear as this is clearly contrary to
the GFA

However this rather overlooks one salient point.

The whole purpose of the GFA was to bamboozle Irish Republicans
into thinking that this was one more step towards a United Ireland
- with all the talk of cross border co-operation - while keeping
the Unionists on board. Basically it allowed them to walk away
from the table under the impression that they'd actaully gained
something after having inflicted 25 years of mayhem. And as such
they've never been that concerned about the fine print. Whereas
in fact with Unionists* of one shade or other still blackmailing
the Westminster Govt into doing their will it seems as if nothing
has really changed at all.

michael adams


*If it wasn't for the Protestants of Ireland (now just Northern
Ireland) its quite possible that this NewsGroup would now be conducted
in Spanish or French. As they're never tired of reminding people.

"Stephen Cole" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:
Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million
and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk,
we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier
than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

Without a customs union and full alignment on regulations
between the UK and EU, what else can there be other than
a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland,

The current arrangements. Just like there is with Greenland
and Denmark and the UK and the various UK dependencies.

I mean, I know youve got no clue; no-one has, tbh, as its
an impossible question and is exactly what has completely
stumped first Mays and now Johnsons governments.

Hasnt stumped Boris'

And all thats quite aside from the cold, hard fact that erecting
a bordergoes against the GFA, which is international law

Like hell it is.

and the Americans have rather gruffly said
that they wont tolerate it being ****ed with.

That's the EU's problem, not the UK's

So its the Yanks rather than the Europeans dicking it all up, isnt it,
Brian?

Nope.

Whats the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe were going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Irrelevant to what the the majority who bothered to vote, voted for.

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:




Whats the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe were going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.

We don't seem to have any difficulties setting our own laws. Hasn't
Parliament has just set one (subject to Royal assent on Monday)?
--
Ian

michael adams wrote:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

The GFA just requires "normalising" of the border.

It requires rather more than that.



127.Strand two of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement established
the North/South Ministerial Council which brings together ministers
from both governments "to develop consultation, co-operation and
action" on an all-island and cross-border basis.308 The Council
agreed six areas of cooperation under the Agreement; agriculture,
education, environment, health, tourism and transport.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../329/32907.htm

Agriculture is the biggest sticking point. How can there be cross-border
co-operation on agriculture if cattle and sheep in a field would
be subject to 25% and 75% tarrifs (or whatever) if they're simply
moved into
the next field ?




All pure speculation and nonsense.

Take cattle. There are a tracked commodity. It is possible to track a cow
back to a farm. No ear tag, then it is stolen, smuggled, etc. The level of
detail is amazing. Ditto sheep, pigs etc.



Plus, tariffs are not mandatory. If the EU impose them and cause a problem
that is their problem.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 19:18:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Irrelevant to what the the majority who bothered to vote, voted for.

It's ALL none of yours, you senile Ozzie pest!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 10:29:31 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:




What’s the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe we’re going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.

We don't seem to have any difficulties setting our own laws. Hasn't
Parliament has just set one (subject to Royal assent on Monday)?

Er, I don't think that it's news that the "lloss of sovereignty" was
fiction. Whether WTO or independent trade our laws have to accommodate
other countries needs also.

The knuckledraggers swallowed everything hook, line and sinker. You
stand no chance of telling the idiots anything, if the truth wasn't
totally obvious at the start, it isn't going to sink in now.

As I have pointed out, it took seconds to work out that PPI was
totally pointless when it was being pushed years back. How many morons
fell for it? An entire industry kicked off helping the brain dead
Brits claim back their cash. Do you really expect any level of
comprehension from the morons?

Wonder how the compensation will work when they screw their lives
after October :-)

ROTFWL

On 8 Sep 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 10:29:31 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In , Steve Walker
writes
On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:




Whats the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe were going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.
We don't seem to have any difficulties setting our own laws. Hasn't
Parliament has just set one (subject to Royal assent on Monday)?

Er, I don't think that it's news that the "lloss of sovereignty" was
fiction. Whether WTO or independent trade our laws have to accommodate
other countries needs also.

The knuckledraggers swallowed everything hook, line and sinker. You
stand no chance of telling the idiots anything, if the truth wasn't
totally obvious at the start, it isn't going to sink in now.

As I have pointed out, it took seconds to work out that PPI was
totally pointless when it was being pushed years back. How many morons
fell for it? An entire industry kicked off helping the brain dead
Brits claim back their cash. Do you really expect any level of
comprehension from the morons?

Strawmen aplenty.

Why not just go back to MySpace, where people revel in this nonsense?



Wonder how the compensation will work when they screw their lives
after October :-)

ROTFWL

On Sun, 08 Sep 2019 11:47:42 +0100, Keema's Nan
wrote:

On 8 Sep 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote
(in ):

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 10:29:31 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In , Steve Walker
writes
On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:




What’s the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe we’re going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.
We don't seem to have any difficulties setting our own laws. Hasn't
Parliament has just set one (subject to Royal assent on Monday)?

Er, I don't think that it's news that the "lloss of sovereignty" was
fiction. Whether WTO or independent trade our laws have to accommodate
other countries needs also.

The knuckledraggers swallowed everything hook, line and sinker. You
stand no chance of telling the idiots anything, if the truth wasn't
totally obvious at the start, it isn't going to sink in now.

As I have pointed out, it took seconds to work out that PPI was
totally pointless when it was being pushed years back. How many morons
fell for it? An entire industry kicked off helping the brain dead
Brits claim back their cash. Do you really expect any level of
comprehension from the morons?

Strawmen aplenty.

Why not just go back to MySpace, where people revel in this nonsense?

?
My space?

Never been there. I dont know what it is, is it relevant?

AB

In article .com,
Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of
those entitled to vote being in favour or whatever.

And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said ”Ok, we
lost. Let‘s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their
way•.

Unlike the right wing, I wouldn't dream of claiming to have any god on my
side. I'll leave that to the likes of Trump.

Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou, sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

One day you'll finally admit there was never a majority for a leave with
no deal. Since it wasn't a question which was asked. And the leave
campaign were adamant the EU would give in to our every demand, just to
keep a trade deal. Since they needed us more than we needed them.

If leave had campaigned on the basis of cutting ourselves off from the EU
entirely, there'd have been no debate about it now.

--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

Perhaps someone could explain to me how you can an open border in Ireland
unless we are aligned with the EU in pretty well everything?

How can you 'take back control of our borders' but not that one?

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/09/2019 09:16, michael adams wrote:

Agriculture is the biggest sticking point. How can there be cross-border
co-operation on agriculture if cattle and sheep in a field would
be subject to 25% and 75% tarrifs (or whatever) if they're simply
moved into the next field ?

It's nothing new.

Do you remember what was called at the time 'the most
expensive/profitable roundabout in the UK'?.

Apparently, lorries loaded with goods arrived at Dover from
France/Belgium/Holland, thereby earning some EU money for being
exported. They then drove around this roundabout and back on the ship
they'd just left, earning yet more EU money for - you've guessed it -
being exported. Did you object to this at the time? Of course not.
Border sheep are a trivial issue compared to the money wasted by the EU.

--
Spike

On 08/09/2019 12:24, Spike wrote:
On 08/09/2019 09:16, michael adams wrote:

Agriculture is the biggest sticking point. How can there be cross-border
co-operation on agriculture if cattle and sheep in a field would
be subject to 25% and 75% tarrifs (or whatever) if they're simply
moved into the next field ?

It's nothing new.

Do you remember what was called at the time 'the most
expensive/profitable roundabout in the UK'?.

Apparently, lorries loaded with goods arrived at Dover from
France/Belgium/Holland, thereby earning some EU money for being
exported. They then drove around this roundabout and back on the ship
they'd just left, earning yet more EU money for - you've guessed it -
being exported. Did you object to this at the time? Of course not.
Border sheep are a trivial issue compared to the money wasted by the EU.

In ireland they had export and VAT subsidy on exports to the UK
They would drive the cattle over , get the papers stamped and drive them
back across a neighbours farm ready to export them again the next day.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.


OK then. EU workers have free movement to Eire. With no border controls,
they can take a bus to Ulster, and onwards to the UK. Unless we have
controls between Ulster and the mainland. Unacceptable to the DUP.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Rambo wrote:
The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.

Can you please explain what hard border the EU is seeking to impose in
Ireland which is different to any other land border between the EU and a
country with no deal with the EU?

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Stephen Cole wrote:
What‘s the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe we‘re going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

We'll have got our parliamentary sovereignty back, as wanted by the leave
campaign.

But then...

--
*Would a fly without wings be called a walk?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.


Tee hee. I'd suggest you go to places like Bradford, and convince the
natives there that it is the EU which 'took their town from them'.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:




What‘s the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe we‘re going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.

We don't seem to have any difficulties setting our own laws. Hasn't
Parliament has just set one (subject to Royal assent on Monday)?

You've missed the point. Only the far right are allowed to make laws. Any
others are undemocratic.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
Plus, tariffs are not mandatory. If the EU impose them and cause a
problem that is their problem.

Can I get this clear? In your Utopian UK, after crashing out, you want the
UK to have no tariffs at all on imports?

Have you talked to your idol Trump about this?

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 08 Sep 2019 12:24:43 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

Perhaps someone could explain to me how you can an open border in Ireland
unless we are aligned with the EU in pretty well everything?

How can you 'take back control of our borders' but not that one?

If you can explain that one, you are doing a lot better than the UK
government and all the knuckledraggers.

The problem is the knuckledraggers never did do detail.

The other problem is it's little details that they don't do that
affect business, jobs, income and security.

Ignorance is bliss :-)

AB

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking
to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those who
voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk, we
lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted to
leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we know
manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no point
has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is building border
check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear they
will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

I agree with you 100%

but that doesn't mean that we can force them to change the deal they have
offered

tim

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and
a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said "Ok,
we lost.
Let's do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way".
Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border.

There was a hard border before the EU. It was devised by Britain and
the army posts were manned by the British.

that'll be because it was Irish nationals coming into NI to plant bombs

few bombers went the other way

tim

On 07/09/2019 20:09, Brian Reay wrote:
On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega Â* wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
Â*And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk,
we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Â*Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier
than thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when theÂ* UK stops.


Or they just don't believe the suggested alternatives will work.

There isn't much evidence to suggest they will or that the brexiteers
have done anything that might make it work.

It's typical brexteering.. blame it on the EU.
Brexiteers blame everything on the EU, it can't possibly be that they
don't have a clue.

"Stephen Cole" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:
Rambo wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:09:09 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 07/09/2019 19:54, tim... wrote:


"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 07/09/2019 16:16, Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers -
seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million
and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given
you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted
voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of those
entitled to
vote being in favour or whatever.
And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €œOk,
we lost.
Lets do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their way€�.
Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier
than
thou,
sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

And that is the fundamentally scary thing: the WHOLE establishment
media and parliament have united to simply deny that a mjority voted
to leave by any means possible.

They are in effect denying the validity of democracy,
That means we are in effect living in a dictatorship by no one we
know manipulating politicians and media behind the scenes.

It's not about Brexit now. It's about democracy itself.

Or possibly that the Irish border issue did not concern the brexiteer
vote and that no deal was not on the ballot paper.

No amount of huffing and puffing is going to convince the EU that no
deal was ever a realistic threat.

Sort out the Ireland issue and settle for the rest of May's deal.

but there is no May deal without the current Irish solution

A solution suggests there is a problem.

The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.

The Irish see this as a way to try and grab NI plus, of course, fear
they will have to contribute to the EU gravy train when the UK stops.

Rubbish ..it's the EU threatening Ireland with sanctions if they don't
impose a hard border..which goes against the Good Friday agreement.


So you are confirming it is the EU creating the problem AND they issue
threats against their own member states.

And these are the people YOU and your fellow Remainers want to remain
associated with.

Without a customs union

Solved by an FTA as an alternative

and full alignment on regulations between the UK
and EU,

Why do we need full alignment of regulations between the EU and the UK?

What does it actually achieve in the real world?

For the umpteenth time of telling:

Having both side of an open border in the SM does NOT stop rogue companies
from exporting non-compliant goods across that border.

As has been shown several times (the most egregious of which was Horse
Meat).

The idea that it does is just plain daft.

tim

On 8 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In iganews.com,
Keema's Nan wrote:
On 7 Sep 2019, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in ):

In ,
Omega wrote:
But what is equally as bad is the religion of Brexiteers - seeking to
impose their views on others.

Yes, but we had GOD on our side, he saw to it we had a million and a
half votes more than the Remainers!

Your god appears rather lacking in power. A decent one would have
given you a big majority of those entitled to vote. Lets say all those
who voted voting leave. Very very few would argue about 2/3rds of
those entitled to vote being in favour or whatever.

And if you had a decent honest remain god, it would have said €�Ok, we
lost. Let€˜s do the gentlemanly thing and let the winners have their
way€¢.

Unlike the right wing, I wouldn't dream of claiming to have any god on my
side. I'll leave that to the likes of Trump.

Brexiteers are still waiting for the virtue signalling, holier than
thou, sanctimonious remainers to defer to a democratic majority.

One day you'll finally admit there was never a majority for a leave with
no deal. Since it wasn't a question which was asked.
Nor was leave with an Irish backstop.

If everyone believed that leave meant leave with nothing less than a pathetic
deal satisfactory to remain, then why did they not put that on the referendum
ballot paper?

And the leave
campaign were adamant the EU would give in to our every demand, just to
keep a trade deal. Since they needed us more than we needed them.

A situation which, with remain losers in parliament undermining the
negotiating position at every turn, we have never even come near to testing
to our advantage.



If leave had campaigned on the basis of cutting ourselves off from the EU
entirely, there'd have been no debate about it now.

And if leave had lost, any effort to play dirty tricks on remain (as they
have done to brexiters) would have been met with howls of €œundemocratic€�
and €œtrying to be unconstitutional by force€�, etc, etc.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.


OK then. EU workers have free movement to Eire. With no border controls,
they can take a bus to Ulster, and onwards to the UK. Unless we have
controls between Ulster and the mainland. Unacceptable to the DUP.

But haven't we discussed this before - and we realised that travel
between NI and GB already normally requires the production of some
acceptable form of ID - albeit usually not officially for the purposes
of border control?
--
Ian

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:42:47 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
The Irish problem is entirely fabricated by the EU / Ireland. At no
point has the UK suggested a hard border. It is Ireland which is
building border check points, not the UK.


OK then. EU workers have free movement to Eire. With no border controls,
they can take a bus to Ulster, and onwards to the UK. Unless we have
controls between Ulster and the mainland. Unacceptable to the DUP.

But haven't we discussed this before - and we realised that travel
between NI and GB already normally requires the production of some
acceptable form of ID - albeit usually not officially for the purposes
of border control?

But it doesn't.

The only time I,m asked for ID is when flying. Car or as a foot
passenger, it doesn't matter, I have never ever been asked for ID at
any port or in either direction.

AB