"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to scrap
the car and not stupidity.


where did I sat that this rule has anything to do with the EU

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 08/09/2019 23:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
On 08/09/2019 15:19, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2019 12:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
Plus, tariffs are not mandatory. If the EU impose them and cause a
problem that is their problem.

Can I get this clear? In your Utopian UK, after crashing out, you want
the
UK to have no tariffs at all on imports?

Have you talked to your idol Trump about this?

Have you actually read Brian's post?

It is the choice of the importing nation to set tariffs, or agree an
alternative, ie a deal.

You misunderstand it is not the EU that sets UK import tariffs after a
no deal Brexit.



David is a Remainer, you can't expect him to read things let alone
understand even the most basic concepts.

You are utterly mad if you think the UK would accept the EU (or anyone)
imposing tariffs on its exports while refraining from doing so to theirs.

The EU are surrently setting tariffs on our *imports* from the rest of the
world and preventing us doing trade deals with other countries that would
lower tariffs for both our imports and exports.

But perhaps it means you now think trading under WTO terms isn't quite
the
answer so many said it would be.

But temporarily necessary, as the EU forbids us from negotiating trade
deals while we are still a member and they won't even discuss a trade deal
with us until the WA is agreed or we have left!

It's not refusing in principle to discuss a trade deal with us until we have
left, it's refusing to reopen the WA to add it as part of that agreement

It is/was quite willing to discuss a trade deal with us as a side agreement
now or initially as part of the WA, if we indicated to them that that is our
preferred direction of travel.

Unfortunately, TM decided that it wasn't her preferred direction of travel
and declined the opportunity whist the WA was still open to amendment

tim

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:

On 08/09/2019 23:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
The problem with chlorinated chicken is simply that it is used to "hide"
the poor animal welfare, sanitary controls and transportation of "some"
suppliers, all leading to far higher levels of contamination than in the
EU. I am more concerned about about the welfare (I am a confirmed meat
eater, but see no reason to treat animals worse than is necessary) and
the fact that chlorination not only doesn't kill all the contamination,
but also prevents it being accurately checked. Figures clearly show that
the US rate of food poisoning is many times that in the UK.

That won't go down well with the average right wing Brexiteer here. The
only animals they likely care about the welfare of - including humans -
being dogs and horses.

As you'll have seen from my other posts, I am a leaver. I see no reason
why that should prevent concern for animal welfare standards or food
cleanliness standards.

That was just Dave being an arsehole.

My comment hit home with you, then?

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 09/09/2019 14:59, dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 12:52, tim... wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/09/2019 09:03, tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2019 12:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
Plus, tariffs are not mandatory. If the EU impose them and cause
a
problem that is their problem.

Can I get this clear? In your Utopian UK, after crashing out,
you want
the UK to have no tariffs at all on imports?

Have you talked to your idol Trump about this?

Have you actually read Brian's post?

Have you?

It is the choice of the importing nation to set tariffs, or agree an
alternative, ie a deal.

No **** sherlock.

You misunderstand it is not the EU that sets UK import tariffs after
a
no deal Brexit.

And you really think the UK would allow in everything tariff free?
While
other countries impose tariffs on our goods?

Not everything no. It's certain we'll impose tariffs on finished
goods (to encourage manufacturing in the UK, from imported tariff free
components)

But there seems to be a move for zero tariffs on agriculture, as we
are not self sufficient in food and (except in a few cases) have no
need to discourage importation of such - that doesn't mean that there
won't be minimum standards of production enforced.


really?
it will be interesting to see how long UK farming lasts when the
imports are a lot cheaper due to a lack of tariffs.

apparently 90% of our imported food comes from the EU already

so there will be no change there

and even if you do think that tariff free imports from some dirt poor
African county with zero production costs are somehow going to decimate
our farmers

Then, as I have already show, the tariffs on imports from these
countries are of the order of 3-5%. Do you really think that taking it
dowe to zero makes any difference?

how much are we expected to dole out to farmers that can't sell their
crops above the price it costs to produce them

we already do that.

Except that it's the EU giving them our money

and why should we.


because having some semblance of food security is strategically
important

tim



Yet when we import 90% from the EU you want us to leave and have no say.
That's really clever!

a) it is 30%, not 90%.

as per my previous clarification

30% of our food comes from the EU, representing 75% (I over estimated a bit)
of the food that we import

10% of total consumption (25% of imports) comes from ROW.

We export about 20% (by value) of the quantity that we import. The largest
single item of exports (almost 25% of the total) being Scotch Whisky with
another 10% being "other" alcoholic beverages. Not something most people
would regard as an "agricultural" product, but the statisticians do.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
You think the label will say 'The only way this product is suitable for
human consumption was by the addition of chlorine'?

It will probably say "enhanced cleanliness" or something similar. Do you
drink water made "suitable for human consumption was by the addition of
chlorine"?

Good to know you can't see the difference between something which is
necessary and something which isn't.

If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy eating contaminated food which is only
made safe by adding chemicals. To save a few pennies. Especially since
chicken in the UK is already the cheapest meat you can buy.

It's what you Brexiteers are all about, isn't it? Being able to buy the
very cheapest product from anywhere and sod our local producers.

--
*Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/09/2019 17:34, Steve Walker wrote:
On 09/09/2019 12:14, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/09/2019 22:39, Steve Walker wrote:
On 08/09/2019 10:29, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 08/09/2019 07:10, Stephen Cole wrote:




Whats the point of all of this, Brian? What do you people genuinely
believe were going to gain from all this upheaval and madness?

Freedom to make our own choices, set our own laws, hold our own
government to account for allowing large numbers of immigrants
overloading already limited resources and infrastructure, reduce the
downward pressure on low-end wages.

We don't seem to have any difficulties setting our own laws. Hasn't
Parliament has just set one (subject to Royal assent on Monday)?

Can we decide on whether we want tracking in our new vehicles?
Expensive safety systems that make only a little difference to safety,
but render vehicles uneconomic to repair after only slight damage?

Probably not as it will be uneconomicto produce many variants and get
them through the approvals with fundementally differen designs. Its one
thing swapping an engine or a few body panels, its something else to
build a new car from the ground up.

To reduce or raise import tariffs on certain goods?

Probably, but it depends. Others can raise disputes if they think we are
abussing the WTO system.

At what level VAT should be set?

The UK government has set the VAT rates on everything.
The EU just has a rule that says you can't put VAT on something and then
take it off willynilly.


Whether any VAT is due on particular goods?

The UK government negotiated what we were putting VAT on.
It was the UK government that put VAT on electricity and gas not the EU.

"Under EU rules, countries must apply a minimum standard VAT rate of 15%.
They have an option of applying one or two reduced rates, no lower than
5%, to certain specified goods on a pre-approved list.
Further reduction of the VAT rate, including to 0%, is also allowed but
only for the goods which were taxed at that rate before 1991 and since
then.
Changes to the VAT rules require unanimous agreement of all 28 EU
countries."

So we cannot decide what we want to do.

We can ask, but it takes time and needs unanimous approval - how long has
it been since the fuss about sanitary products ... and although we have
managed to reduce it to 5%, we still cannot zero rate it.

We didn't have to put VAT on in the first place.

but the government finances were ****ed and it needed the money

so it did

tim




To control immigration?

We might be able to, we can now for immigrants but don't and they are
about 60% of the net migration into the UK.

If we tighten non-EU immigration, EU immigration goes up to compensate.
Once we can control immigration from the EU, we can have a proper
system - including tax incentives to train UK citizens rather than
importing workers. We can also then peoperly hold governments to account,
as ALL immigration will be under their control.

You seriously think training the UK citizens to wash cars and stuff will
make a difference?


And the list goes on.

And like all brexiteers you have chosen a set that are not implimented
by the EU but by the UK government, its almost as though brexiteers
don't have a clue.

Yes VAT was put on goods by UK governments, but it is the EU rules that
form a ratchet mechanism where once anything has VAT added, you can never
remove it. With VAT under our control, we could decide to zero rate
certain items - without outside interference.

We could, but we didn't have to put VAT on in the first place.


Yes we can make our own laws - but only if they don't contradict EU
laws or no EU country feels that that law affects their companies more
than others. Look at the ridiculous case of Scotland and now Wales
wanting to introduce a minimum per unit price for alcohol and it being
held up as a number of countries contest it as a restriction of trade.


Yes just look at it.. Scotland do have a minimum price for alcohol so
thats another brexiteer talking cock.

And it took years of going through the courts first, both in the UK and
the ECJ - but in both, it was EU law that was being used to try and stop
it.

SteveW

The ECJ didn't take years they referred it back to the UK courts, it was
the UK courts and the whiskey producers that delayed it.

In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.

if you know how to the take car apart to change it

otherwise it's a 400 quid garage bill

I had a sensor fail on nearly new car. It only took half an hour to replace.



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 09/09/2019 13:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
You are utterly mad if you think the UK would accept the EU (or
anyone) imposing tariffs on its exports while refraining from doing so
to theirs.

Where did I suggest that?

However, read YOUR post again. It is significant YOU acknowledged the
EU would be the first to initiate the imposition of tariffs. Clearly
even you acknowledge the EU are the problem here.

Thanks for confirming you see it as some form of game. Where goals
being scored are important. That it makes a whit of difference who
applies tariffs first. As they are inevitable.

Hoist by your own petard.

Sadly, the vast majority of ordinary UK citizens will be shafted by
the EU

That's

That's what, Fred?

--
*Certain frogs can be frozen solid, then thawed, and survive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to scrap
the car and not stupidity.

Oddly, it was the US that started emissions controls on cars, not the EU.
Nothing to do with saving the planet, but to make things more comfortable
around LA.

And an MOT doesn't check emissions throughout an engine's range.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
And was won when Scotland pointed out (as if it wasn't obvious) that it
had nothing to do with trade, but health.

But it is not about whether Scotland was allowed to do it or not. The
simple fact that EU law even had to be considered for an internal
matter, giving rise to years of delay is the problem.

I take it you don't like the rule of law? Prefer to just observe those
that suit you?

The same sort of delays could have happened with only UK courts.

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.

if you know how to the take car apart to change it

otherwise it's a 400 quid garage bill


Which sensor exactly? Most are pretty easy to change.


--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to scrap
the car and not stupidity.

Oddly, it was the US that started emissions controls on cars, not the EU.
Nothing to do with saving the planet, but to make things more comfortable
around LA.

And an MOT doesn't check emissions throughout an engine's range.

but it does check that the sensor warning light is off

tim



--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.

if you know how to the take car apart to change it

otherwise it's a 400 quid garage bill


Which sensor exactly?

no idea

Most are pretty easy to change.

that's not what the garage said

tim

On 10/09/2019 11:07, charles wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.

if you know how to the take car apart to change it

otherwise it's a 400 quid garage bill

I had a sensor fail on nearly new car. It only took half an hour to replace.

On my first vehicle, a bedford VA MkII van, I could repolace the
thermostat in about 5 minutes.


On my latest car, a Freelander 1, it took 4 hours and cost 400 quid
along with changing the aircon cooler

Access is everything





--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 10/09/2019 11:25, tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Â* tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Â*Â* tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.

if you know how to the take car apart to change it

otherwise it's a 400 quid garage bill


Which sensor exactly?

no idea

Most are pretty easy to change.

that's not what the garage said

Many are not.

Just depends if you can get a hand and a spanner to it.

a non sensor example. Ive got a whining (remoaner style) centre
propshaft bearing. I got two bearings to replace the ones in there for
£25. Its over tow hours rated to replace them even though they are just
bolted to the car floor...


tim





--
€œThere are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isnt true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.€�

€”Soren Kierkegaard

On 10/09/2019 11:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
You think the label will say 'The only way this product is suitable for
human consumption was by the addition of chlorine'?

It will probably say "enhanced cleanliness" or something similar. Do you
drink water made "suitable for human consumption was by the addition of
chlorine"?

Good to know you can't see the difference between something which is
necessary and something which isn't.

If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

It isn't exactly safe to eat, not if you take preparation into account
as part of that. There are even official warnings about washing raw
chicken under the tap for example:

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-wel...h-raw-chicken/

Moreover, campylobacter, which is the commonest form of food poisoning
in the UK, comes in the main from eating contaminated cooked chicken:

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/campylobacter

*Any* cheap and easy means of reducing these dangers should surely be
used. And commercial washing of the meat in water containing a pretty
dilute amount of chlorine (about twice the concentration used in a
swimming pool), which leaves no residue and causes no flavour taint, is
surely to be welcomed and encouraged.

Why we don't do it is purely because of rather contemptible EU
anti-competitive rules. Chicken from the USA is sensibly treated in
this way, and is cheaper, but the EU fears free competition from US
chicken in EU markets and would like to prevent it coming in. But it
can't do that under WTO rules, so it artificially bans
'chlorine-washing' of any chicken, for no scientific reason, while
falsely claiming (see above) that our production methods are so much
better that we don't need it.

The upshot of this is that we consumers are put at increased risk of
infection from chicken produced in Europe by EU rules aimed at
preventing competition from chicken produced in the USA.

Our safety does not come first where the EU is concerned.

I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy eating contaminated food which is only
made safe by adding chemicals. To save a few pennies. Especially since
chicken in the UK is already the cheapest meat you can buy.

It's still contaminated. That's why we have all those dire warnings
about not washing it and cooking it properly.

It's what you Brexiteers are all about, isn't it? Being able to buy the
very cheapest product from anywhere and sod our local producers.

Safety should come first. Don't you agree?

On Monday, 9 September 2019 16:52:26 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 08/09/2019 23:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
And, as I have said to you many times, they arrive in the UK as
visitors, without the correct paperwork to gain employment, claim
benefits, use the NHS, rent a home, etc.

You really think you need paperwork to get a job or a room in the UK? Or
for emergency medical treatment?

Yes. I, having being born and brought up in the UK of English parents
and having a clearly English name am asked to prove my eligibility to
work in the UK each time I start in a new position - and as I work
contract, typically 16 to 22 months, that is fairly often.

Can I ask what sort of work you do?

Is it fruit picking or working on a small building site? Self employed
delivery driver? Car wash? Serving in a bar? Or any of the myriad jobs UK
born don't want to do.

Some do want to do themn it's just that they want paying a reasonable rate in reasonble conditions, but what happens is you get the slave trade taking over and doing such jobs for a few quid an hour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...ns-slave-gangs



In my last position, the guy sitting next to me (who I have worked with
elsewhere before) and who is a landlord with a small number of
properties is required to check new tenents eligibility.

Oddly, I've never been asked when having guests.

Tenents and guest are quite differnt.

On 09/09/2019 09:42, tim... wrote:

they are bloody daft then.

*ding*

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 11:38:44 UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
On 10/09/2019 11:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
You think the label will say 'The only way this product is suitable for
human consumption was by the addition of chlorine'?

It will probably say "enhanced cleanliness" or something similar. Do you
drink water made "suitable for human consumption was by the addition of
chlorine"?

Good to know you can't see the difference between something which is
necessary and something which isn't.

If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

It isn't exactly safe to eat, not if you take preparation into account
as part of that.

Chlorine is used to wash salad in the EU.

There are even official warnings about washing raw
chicken under the tap for example:

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-wel...h-raw-chicken/

Which is differnt from doing the same in factory conditions.




Moreover, campylobacter, which is the commonest form of food poisoning
in the UK, comes in the main from eating contaminated cooked chicken:


That's not what it says, it doesn;lt say the main cause is from eating cooked chicken.

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/campylobacter

*Any* cheap and easy means of reducing these dangers should surely be
used.

That's what america claims becaus eit is cheaper and easier than using proper hygene controls.

And commercial washing of the meat in water containing a pretty
dilute amount of chlorine (about twice the concentration used in a
swimming pool), which leaves no residue and causes no flavour taint, is
surely to be welcomed and encouraged.

No because it doesn't solve trhe problem all it does is reduce the amounts to a levekl which is said to be safe, thenh the chicken goes off on it';s journey and the levels of bacteria increase because the cholorine doesn't kill all the bacteria.


Why we don't do it is purely because of rather contemptible EU
anti-competitive rules. Chicken from the USA is sensibly treated in
this way, and is cheaper,

but by the time it gets to the UK the bacterai levels have increased.
Plus the levels of hygene in US kitchens and poultary production is far lower than the UK or the EUs.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...chicken-brexit




but the EU fears free competition from US
chicken in EU markets and would like to prevent it coming in. But it
can't do that under WTO rules, so it artificially bans
'chlorine-washing' of any chicken, for no scientific reason,

there are reasons otherwiose why would the US bother washing chickens if it wasn't required.?


Safety should come first. Don't you agree?

Yes which is why I'd want chicken to be labled where it has come from then let the consumer decide, but the US doesn't want that labeling to be used.

On 10/09/2019 11:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
You think the label will say 'The only way this product is suitable for
human consumption was by the addition of chlorine'?

It will probably say "enhanced cleanliness" or something similar. Do you
drink water made "suitable for human consumption was by the addition of
chlorine"?

Good to know you can't see the difference between something which is
necessary and something which isn't.

If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

They don't add chlorine to the chicken. There is a quick rinse is a very
dilute bath, followed by a rinse in fresh water.



I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy eating contaminated food which is only
made safe by adding chemicals. To save a few pennies. Especially since
chicken in the UK is already the cheapest meat you can buy.

It's what you Brexiteers are all about, isn't it? Being able to buy the
very cheapest product from anywhere and sod our local producers.



You clearly aren't familiar with what happen to the English
fishing industry, or you are and are ignoring it.

In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to
scrap the car and not stupidity.

Oddly, it was the US that started emissions controls on cars, not the
EU. Nothing to do with saving the planet, but to make things more
comfortable around LA.

And an MOT doesn't check emissions throughout an engine's range.

but it does check that the sensor warning light is off

Sensor warning light? Never seen one of those. Do you mean check engine?
And then have the codes read to see what the problem actually is?

--
*A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On my first vehicle, a bedford VA MkII van, I could repolace the
thermostat in about 5 minutes.


On my latest car, a Freelander 1, it took 4 hours and cost 400 quid
along with changing the aircon cooler

Pray tell how long it would have taken to change the 'aircon cooler'
(whatever your odd mind thinks that is) in a Bedford VA Mk111 van?

--
*Do paediatricians play miniature golf on Wednesdays?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Norman Wells wrote:
If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

It isn't exactly safe to eat, not if you take preparation into account
as part of that. There are even official warnings about washing raw
chicken under the tap for example:


I wasn't suggesting you eat it raw. Do you do this?

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Is it fruit picking or working on a small building site? Self employed
delivery driver? Car wash? Serving in a bar? Or any of the myriad jobs
UK born don't want to do.

Some do want to do themn it's just that they want paying a reasonable
rate in reasonble conditions, but what happens is you get the slave
trade taking over and doing such jobs for a few quid an hour.

Suggest you actually ask farmers how easy it is to get fruit pickers from
a UK dole queue.
But you don't need to reminds me you live in a town since you are fixated
by car washes. Even without owning a car.

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
It isn't exactly safe to eat, not if you take preparation into account
as part of that.

Chlorine is used to wash salad in the EU.

Neat chlorine?

Odd. I can often smell chlorine in London tap water. Never on salads.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
* dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
**** tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to scrap
the car and not stupidity.

Oddly, it was the US that started emissions controls on cars, not the EU.
Nothing to do with saving the planet, but to make things more comfortable
around LA.

And an MOT doesn't check emissions throughout an engine's range.

but it does check that the sensor warning light is off


Any condition I can think of that would cause the engine management
light to come on would also result in a failure; but I don't think that
just having the light come on would, by itself, do so. Although I'd be
interested to hear of any possible examples where it might not.

tim



--
*My dog can lick anyone

** Dave Plowman******* ********** London SW
**************** To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/09/2019 13:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Norman Wells wrote:
If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

It isn't exactly safe to eat, not if you take preparation into account
as part of that. There are even official warnings about washing raw
chicken under the tap for example:


I wasn't suggesting you eat it raw. Do you do this?


Some beef is eaten raw*. Not heard of it with chicken.


*Steak (or Beef) Tartare- raw beef mince, typically served with lemon
juice, capers, onions, and an egg yoke, on toast. Not something I care
for.

On 10/09/2019 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Is it fruit picking or working on a small building site? Self employed
delivery driver? Car wash? Serving in a bar? Or any of the myriad jobs
UK born don't want to do.

Some do want to do themn it's just that they want paying a reasonable
rate in reasonble conditions, but what happens is you get the slave
trade taking over and doing such jobs for a few quid an hour.

Suggest you actually ask farmers how easy it is to get fruit pickers from
a UK dole queue.


Easy to solve, stop their benefits.

Importing labour from overseas- be it the EU or elsewhere, when we have
people out of work here is beyond stupid.

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 13:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Is it fruit picking or working on a small building site? Self employed
delivery driver? Car wash? Serving in a bar? Or any of the myriad jobs
UK born don't want to do.

Some do want to do themn it's just that they want paying a reasonable
rate in reasonble conditions, but what happens is you get the slave
trade taking over and doing such jobs for a few quid an hour.

Suggest you actually ask farmers how easy it is to get fruit pickers from
a UK dole queue.

They do a friend of mine a couple of years ago was picking olives in sussex
all you have to do is pay themn enough.
Perhaps yuo should ask the tulip growers in why they import 2 of my friend regually for 4 years to help them do budding when there;s plenty of people in the EU with a much higher percentage of unemployed.

But you don't need to reminds me you live in a town since you are fixated
by car washes. Even without owning a car.

There were 5 people washing the only car in the 'pound' yesyerday, how can you keep 5 workers employed when the price is £6 to have your car cleaned.
Doesn;t it mak yuo wonder how they can keep such a large area of ground from property developers that could put 5-10 houses on it.
No it probabbly doesn't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...ns-slave-gangs




It's just a pity you can't see over the fence like I can when on the top deck of the bus.






--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams mjadams25@ukonline wrote:
Boris may be a power crazed buffoon set on destroying the economy
of the UK in pursuit of his pereveted ambition but that doesn't mean
that he can't also be deliberately funny.

Being funny at the expense of someone not there to enjoy the joke or in a
position to reply may not be seen by some as being in good taste from a
politician. More the behaviour of a club circuit turn.

--
*HOW DO THEY GET DEER TO CROSS THE ROAD ONLY AT THOSE YELLOW ROAD SIGNS?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
It's what you Brexiteers are all about, isn't it? Being able to buy the
very cheapest product from anywhere and sod our local producers.



You clearly aren't familiar with what happen to the English
fishing industry, or you are and are ignoring it.

Thanks for confirming your only concern is England.

--
*Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
On 10/09/2019 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Is it fruit picking or working on a small building site? Self employed
delivery driver? Car wash? Serving in a bar? Or any of the myriad jobs
UK born don't want to do.

Some do want to do themn it's just that they want paying a reasonable
rate in reasonble conditions, but what happens is you get the slave
trade taking over and doing such jobs for a few quid an hour.

Suggest you actually ask farmers how easy it is to get fruit pickers from
a UK dole queue.


Easy to solve, stop their benefits.

Yes of course. In your little world, anyone who doesn't jump at the chance
of picking fruit is a lead swinger. What was the expression? Those who
can't do teach.

Importing labour from overseas- be it the EU or elsewhere, when we have
people out of work here is beyond stupid.

Life is so simple on your planet.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/09/2019 14:03, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Â* dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to
scrap
the car and not stupidity.

Oddly, it was the US that started emissions controls on cars, not the
EU.
Nothing to do with saving the planet, but to make things more
comfortable
around LA.

And an MOT doesn't check emissions throughout an engine's range.

but it does check that the sensor warning light is off


Any condition I can think of that would cause the engine management
light to come on would also result in a failure; but I don't think that
just having the light come on would, by itself, do so.Â* Although I'd be
interested to hear of any possible examples where it might not.

Well some of the exhaust sensors can fail and the engine will run, just
at high emissions for example.

sticky air flow sensors can be expensive and cause a light..
as can water temp sensors ..


tim



--
*My dog can lick anyone

Â*Â* Dave PlowmanÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* London SW
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* To e-mail, change noise into sound.




--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 10/09/2019 13:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Norman Wells wrote:

If adding chlorine was necessary to make chicken safe to eat, why isn't it
used in the UK?

It isn't exactly safe to eat, not if you take preparation into account
as part of that. There are even official warnings about washing raw
chicken under the tap for example:

I wasn't suggesting you eat it raw. Do you do this?

It's pretty serious contamination if you're advised *not* to wash it
first for fear of spreading the contamination around.

And if you buy it raw, you'll be handling it, preparing it, and maybe
even undercooking it.

It *must* be better to do what you can to reduce the contamination, and
chlotrine washing is one cheap and effective way. It's daft not to.

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.

if you know how to the take car apart to change it

otherwise it's a 400 quid garage bill


Which sensor exactly?

no idea

Most are pretty easy to change.

that's not what the garage said

Which car model and year ?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/09/2019 14:03, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Â* dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2019 16:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* tim... wrote:
Want to say what it was?

some emission sensor or other

the actual emissions were fine, it was just the sensor that was
buggerd

Pattern ones are about £30.


You shouldn't tell him that he likes to think the EU caused him to
scrap
the car and not stupidity.

Oddly, it was the US that started emissions controls on cars, not
the EU.
Nothing to do with saving the planet, but to make things more
comfortable
around LA.

And an MOT doesn't check emissions throughout an engine's range.

but it does check that the sensor warning light is off


Any condition I can think of that would cause the engine management
light to come on would also result in a failure; but I don't think
that just having the light come on would, by itself, do so.Â* Although
I'd be interested to hear of any possible examples where it might not.

Well some of the exhaust sensors can fail and the engine will run, just
at high emissions for example.


I had a top lambda sensor drift out of spec, and only the MOT tester
noticed. But I was trying to think of EML fault conditions that might
appear and not cause an MOT failure, not an engine failure :-)

sticky air flow sensors can be expensive and cause a light..
as can water temp sensors ..


TBH, I was forgetting that there seems to be sensor for just about
everything nowadays. My old Fiesta is hardly cutting-edge tech. :-)


tim



--
*My dog can lick anyone

Â*Â* Dave PlowmanÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* London SW
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/09/2019 21:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , "dennis@home" wrote:

On 09/09/2019 14:58, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 09/09/2019 12:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Norman Wells
wrote:

On 09/09/2019 11:53, michael adams wrote:

The Govt are falling over themselves to publish the "good news" -
hurrah
we're going to abolish tarriffs on imports so everything is going
to be
cheaper

No, what it's said is that there won't be tariffs applied to 83%
of all the goods we import.

But are strangely silent on the tarriffs the RoW may impose on
our exports which may render them uncompeteive.Â* Don't you worry
your
pretty little heads about those - or look them up if you can find
out where to look.

Exporters have to at the moment for exports to anywhere outside
the EU. One assumes they're big enough and ugly enough to do it,
and don't need their hands holding all the time.Â* They're supposed
to be businessmen for goodness sake.Â* It goes with the territory.

Adams is a dimwit, eh? Only a thickie like him would be unable to
comprehend that such tariffs are already being imposed on goods
sold to
RoW. What's so hard about that, eh? Answer, it isn't. So one must
assume he has another agenda. Gosh, I wonder what that could be.

Shame the EU has trade deals with 50 counties and is negotiating
with 72 more that the UK won't be a part of. So we aren't currently
putting tariffs on the RoW, just some of it.

We're not talking about inbound tariffs, Den, we're talking about
outbound ones. Do keep up.

So its stupid, trade deals are bidirectional.

We're not talking about trade deals.


Don't talk bollox, what do you think it says in the post you have quoted
above.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Brian Reay
wrote:

On 10/09/2019 13:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Is it fruit picking or working on a small building site? Self employed
delivery driver? Car wash? Serving in a bar? Or any of the myriad jobs
UK born don't want to do.

Some do want to do themn it's just that they want paying a reasonable
rate in reasonble conditions, but what happens is you get the slave
trade taking over and doing such jobs for a few quid an hour.

Suggest you actually ask farmers how easy it is to get fruit pickers
from
a UK dole queue.

Easy to solve, stop their benefits.

Importing labour from overseas- be it the EU or elsewhere, when we have
people out of work here is beyond stupid.

While I agree, working as a fruit picker is hard work

Depends on the fruit being picked.

and can only be done by people who already do it.

BULL****. Hordes of ours is done by european backpackers
and indian subcontinent and pacific island illegals.

Which may sound odd but what I mean is that the process uses muscles that
are not normally used much and after one day of doing it you won't be
physically able to continue.

BULL****.

I learnt this from a fruit farm owner over in Thanet who tried asking
at the local Labour Exch (or whatever it's called these days) and
actually got some Brits to turn up. These gave up after half a day
except for one determined couple who lasted a day and a half. So he
gave up and continued with the same eastern Europeans he'd used for
years.

Those eastern europeans must have worked out how to start fruit picking.

And hordes of backpackers and illegals do that every ****ing year.

Those that farmer tried clearly had the option of doing nothing
on the dole instead. Trivially easy to ensure that they dont.

Given that when I was a kid, fruit picking was a job one could do, it just
shows we've become soft.

Or you're too stupid to work out the basics.

On 09/09/2019 22:49, Steve Walker wrote:
8

But it is not about whether Scotland was allowed to do it or not. The
simple fact that EU law even had to be considered for an internal
matter, giving rise to years of delay is the problem.

But it didn't cause years of delay!

The UK courts caused years of delay.


SteveW

On 10/09/2019 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:

Chlorine is used to wash salad in the EU.

You mean tap water?