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Timber frame refurb
Hi all first post ππ» Be nice!
Bought our house 4 years ago, its liveable but theres lots I want to do, but with 2 kids 2 & 4 its hard to find the time. Ripped out the bathroom around 2 years ago, really happy with how that turned out! Next project is where I need some advice, Im starting on the living room in 4 weeks, currently 6.0m long 3.6m wide. The plan is create a living room approx 3.6 x 3.6, a study approx 2.4 x 2.4 the rest of the space will be a mid landing. I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. As I plan to re wire as I go and I also need to move a rad my questions a 1. If I rip down all board, do I need to replace both? Or can I just replace fireboard? As I will be skimming Im assuming I could skim on top of either. 2 if I need to replace both are they staggered to improve strength? My second set of questions are around the stud walls, when the plasterboard came off Ive found that where I need to set the stud wall Im not in line with any of the existing uprights and there are no noggins in the wall, there are also pipes running where I plan on putting one of the walls, my questions a 1 will the new stud walls be strong enough with the base timber bolted to the concrete floor below and the top timber bolted to the ceiling joists, with uprights at 400mm centres? I want to avoid putting noggins in the wall if possible as it means I will have to unnecessarily re route some pipework to get noggins in. Im using 3x2 c16 timber for the stud work, and I have 6x1 to put noggins in the ceiling to fix the top timber of the stud wall to. Hope thats enough and not too much info. Look forward to your replies. Ben -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...b-1378023-.htm |
Timber frame refurb
On 14/08/2019 23:14, Ben wrote:
Hi all first post ππ» Be nice! Greetings! Bought our house 4 years ago, its liveable but theres lots I want to do, but with 2 kids 2 & 4 its hard to find the time. Ripped out the bathroom around 2 years ago, really happy with how that turned out! Next project is where I need some advice, Im starting on the living room in 4 weeks, currently 6.0m long 3.6m wide. The plan is create a living room approx 3.6 x 3.6, a study approx 2.4 x 2.4 the rest of the space will be a mid landing. I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. As I plan to re wire as I go and I also need to move a rad my questions a 1. If I rip down all board, do I need to replace both? Or can I just replace fireboard? As I will be skimming Im assuming I could skim on top of either. Building regs will typically specify dual layers for extra fire protection between dwellings. You also need to consider noise insulation. Replacing both layers would be very sensible IMHO. Have a look at approved document B: https://assets.publishing.service.go...ouses_2019.pdf 2 if I need to replace both are they staggered to improve strength? Yes - and flatness. My second set of questions are around the stud walls, when the plasterboard came off Ive found that where I need to set the stud wall Im not in line with any of the existing uprights and there are no noggins in the wall, there are also pipes running where I plan on putting one of the walls, my questions a 1 will the new stud walls be strong enough with the base timber bolted to the concrete floor below and the top timber bolted to the ceiling joists, with uprights at 400mm centres? I want to avoid putting noggins in the wall if possible as it means I will have to unnecessarily re route some pipework to get noggins in. Fixed top and bottom only is not uncommon - many modern houses seem to have stud walls inserted wherever without much attention to how they fix to existing structures. You can double up the studs at the adjoining end to add some extra stiffness. However I would be tempted to stick some more substantial noggings into the ceiling and adjoining wall to create proper fixing points. They don't need to be full stud depth though, so you should be able to dodge the pipes with a nogging in front of or behind etc. You can always add extra packing pieces to make fixing easier. Alternatively you could add some stiff bits of Bat strap or similar to allow the end stud of the new wall to be fixed to the two nearest studs in the perpendicular wall. That's thin enough it can be lost in the thickness of the PB. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Timber frame refurb
On 14/08/2019 23:14, Ben wrote:
..., my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. Dont assume. MIGHT be just two plaster for sound insulation. As I plan to re wire as I go and I also need to move a rad my questions a 1. If I rip down all board, do I need to replace both? Or can I just replace fireboard? As I will be skimming Im assuming I could skim on top of either. Or use celcon blocks? better sound proofing and easy to cut channels for wires and pipes in. 2 if I need to replace both are they staggered to improve strength? They will be for sound as well. My second set of questions are around the stud walls, when the plasterboard came off Ive found that where I need to set the stud wall Im not in line with any of the existing uprights and there are no noggins in the wall, there are also pipes running where I plan on putting one of the walls, my questions a 1 will the new stud walls be strong enough with the base timber bolted to the concrete floor below and the top timber bolted to the ceiling joists, with uprights at 400mm centres? I want to avoid putting noggins in the wall if possible as it means I will have to unnecessarily re route some pipework to get noggins in. Mmm. Strong yes, stiff?....I am concerned. 2.2 meters plus, floor to ceiling is a long away to go and stay straight against a lateral load, like someone leaning againsts it. Shame to end up with cracks because it moved a couple of mm Any way you could use, instead of noggins, say, a steel plate screwed to existing wall and bolted to the end stud? Im using 3x2 c16 timber for the stud work, and I have 6x1 to put noggins in the ceiling to fix the top timber of the stud wall to. Hope thats enough and not too much info. 4x2 is more normal for internal stud except the lightest and shortest run 6x1 sounds OK. Look forward to your replies. Ben -- "The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll look exactly the same afterwards." Billy Connolly |
Timber frame refurb
On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 23:14:03 UTC+1, Ben wrote:
Hi all first post ππ» Be nice! Bought our house 4 years ago, its liveable but theres lots I want to do, but with 2 kids 2 & 4 its hard to find the time. Ripped out the bathroom around 2 years ago, really happy with how that turned out! Next project is where I need some advice, Im starting on the living room in 4 weeks, currently 6.0m long 3.6m wide. The plan is create a living room approx 3.6 x 3.6, a study approx 2.4 x 2..4 the rest of the space will be a mid landing. I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. who knows what they actually are. Old houses can have just about anything As I plan to re wire as I go and I also need to move a rad my questions a 1. If I rip down all board, do I need to replace both? Or can I just replace fireboard? As I will be skimming Im assuming I could skim on top of either. 2 if I need to replace both are they staggered to improve strength? My second set of questions are around the stud walls, when the plasterboard came off Ive found that where I need to set the stud wall Im not in line with any of the existing uprights and there are no noggins in the wall, there are also pipes running where I plan on putting one of the walls, my questions a 1 will the new stud walls be strong enough with the base timber bolted to the concrete floor below and the top timber bolted to the ceiling joists, with uprights at 400mm centres? those points are fine I want to avoid putting noggins in the wall if possible as it means I will have to unnecessarily re route some pipework to get noggins in. Im using 3x2 c16 timber for the stud work, and I have 6x1 to put noggins in the ceiling to fix the top timber of the stud wall to. Hope thats enough and not too much info. Look forward to your replies. Ben so far so good. I can't comment on the BR requirements for the party wall, only that you need to address both fire & sound. Sound transmission can be reduced several easy cheap ways http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...oise_reduction NT |
Timber frame refurb
On 14/08/2019 23:14, Ben wrote:
I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. Is this property fairly modern and timber-framed ?. If so, are each of the 2 boards grey in colour and 12.5 mm thick or is one a pink colour ?. Pink plasterboard is called fireline and is reinforced with fireglass. It gives an hour of fire resistance (but it is the whole structure that provides the protection not just the choice of materials). If not pink, it might by green or blue, one of which colours is soundblock plasterboard, if this is a party wall. Whatever is there should not be changed, in fact, I'm not sure why you are disturbing the deeper layer. Is is water damaged ?, or are the two layers bonded with something that might be soundblock goo or intumescent seal. |
Timber frame refurb
On 14/08/2019 23:14, Ben wrote:
Hi all first post ππ» Be nice! Bought our house 4 years ago, its liveable but theres lots I want to do, but with 2 kids 2 & 4 its hard to find the time. Ripped out the bathroom around 2 years ago, really happy with how that turned out! Next project is where I need some advice, Im starting on the living room in 4 weeks, currently 6.0m long 3.6m wide. The plan is create a living room approx 3.6 x 3.6, a study approx 2.4 x 2.4 the rest of the space will be a mid landing. I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. This sounds like a party wall in a modern timber-frame house, in which case you probably should not be tampering with it at all. -- djc (ΜΏΔΉΜ―ΜΏ ΜΏ) No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree. |
Timber frame refurb
On Thursday, 15 August 2019 22:20:23 UTC+1, DJC wrote:
On 14/08/2019 23:14, Ben wrote: Hi all first post ππ» Be nice! Bought our house 4 years ago, its liveable but theres lots I want to do, but with 2 kids 2 & 4 its hard to find the time. Ripped out the bathroom around 2 years ago, really happy with how that turned out! Next project is where I need some advice, Im starting on the living room in 4 weeks, currently 6.0m long 3.6m wide. The plan is create a living room approx 3.6 x 3.6, a study approx 2.4 x 2.4 the rest of the space will be a mid landing. I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. This sounds like a party wall in a modern timber-frame house, in which case you probably should not be tampering with it at all. If that's the case, why is the OP pulling it all off? NT |
Timber frame refurb
On 15/08/2019 22:02, DJC wrote:
On 14/08/2019 23:14, Ben wrote: Hi all first post ππ» Be nice! Bought our house 4 years ago, its liveable but theres lots I want to do, but with 2 kids 2 & 4 its hard to find the time. Ripped out the bathroom around 2 years ago, really happy with how that turned out! Next project is where I need some advice, Im starting on the living room in 4 weeks, currently 6.0m long 3.6m wide. The plan is create a living room approx 3.6 x 3.6, a study approx 2.4 x 2.4 the rest of the space will be a mid landing. I started ripping plasterboard off to get a head start on the stud walls, the 2 external walls were fine no issues, 1 external wall was fine, my first issue and questions are around the second internal wall which connects to our neighbour, there are 2 boards deep, im assuming fireboard and plasterboard. This sounds like a party wall in a modern timber-frame house, in which case you probably should not be tampering with it at all. +1 At the very least, talk to your neighbour and let him know what you are doing, but you should have given them notice of the works well in advance. The Party Wall Act is well defined. Plenty of books on the subject in every reference library. If you have interfered with the sound and/or fire resistance of the party wall then you need to have a party wall agreement with the people on the other side. If you don't, they would be able to sue you and you would have to pay all their costs, plus any damages. |
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