I'm still pondering on my Consumer Unit! The more I think about it
the more I realise what a pig of a job it's going to be.

The existing CU is high up on a stud wall in the downstairs toilet.
It's not exactly ideal there, even if we weren't planning to remove
the stud wall to expand the downstairs toilet into the adjacent
utility room to make a shower room. It's too high (have to stand on
the lavatory to reach the switches) and difficult to read the labels.

So, we have to move it anyway because the wall on which it's mounted
is going to disappear.

The main options (with + and - notes) seem to be:-

1 - Move to wall of the entrance hall outside the door into the downstairs toilet (to be shower).
+ Fairly conventional
- Not pretty if low enough to be reasonably accessible
- Need to extend incomer
- Solid, very hard wall, so cables will have to run in trunking from above
- Access above is below floorboards in a cupboard so difficult wiring

2 - Put in under eaves cupboard above the toilet (to be shower).
- Less conventional, is a CU upstairs 'allowed'?
- Ideally would be a flush mounting CU, less choice
+ Much easier wiring as there is already access via removable cladding to the rear
- Need to extend incomer
+ Prettier as would be hidden inside a cupboard
- Possibly a bit lower than ideal and not too easy to see
+ most wiring from below, less stringent fire-proofing requirements
- need to cut/remove one timber in studding

3 - Further away from existing position, e.g. in utility room
+ Conventional, easily found in emergency
+ Doesn't matter if not so pretty
- Longer extensions for connecting up, including incomer
- Most alternative locations have rather poor wiring accessibility
- Not a lot of space in reduced size utility room

4 - Outside in weatherproof box on wall
- More expensive, need weatherproof box
+ Might get away not extending incomer
- A bit inconvenient in bad weather
- Hard wall, cable access not too easy
- Not very conventional


I think I'm leaning towards 2 but I'm having a bit of trouble finding
flush mounting 'main switch' CUs for an all RCBO set up. There's the
Havells ones sold by switchgeardirect.co.uk but I can't find any
reviews and their support is not good - neither Switchgear Direct nor
Havells in the UK can even tell me the size of cut-out required to fit
the flush mounting versions of their CUs. I need at least 14 ways (as
we currently have 14 MCBs and RCBOs). The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent. I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.

Any/all comments welcome! Even ones that say "get an electrician to
do it", though I fear that would be expensive given the requirements.

--
Chris Green
·

On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:
snip

The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent. I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.


You could use 2 consumer units with a "Henley" block. Not as compact as
a stacked unit but then again they don't need to equal sizes.

This post was brought to you by choice-overload-R-us


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/07/2019 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:
snip

The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent.Â* I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.


You could use 2 consumer units with a "Henley" block.Â* Not as compact as
a stacked unit but then again they don't need to equal sizes.



PS

Just recalled that you can get stacking kits for some CUs which avoid
the need for the block. But I've never used them so you'd need advice
from those who have on the pros and cons. (FWLIW I've always wondered
about space for cable management if there's not a nice balance between
top and bottom entry.)



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:58:49 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

- Need to extend incomer

Do you really mean that or just tails from meter?

Could the incomer, main cut out, meter and isolation switch (if
required, tails 1 m don't IIRC) remain in the shower room?

Mind you I'm not sure that incomer, cut out etc would be allowed in a
shower room in the first place so they may *have* to move. That move
is really down to the DNO (incomer and cutout) and your supplier
(meter). Good luck with that...

- Access above is below floorboards in a cupboard so difficult
wiring

Make floor of cupboard a decent access panel?

Personally I'd look at the entrance hall with the CU inside a
suitably sized cupboard to hide it. If the regs allow THAT these
days...

Failing that the utility room.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wednesday, 17 July 2019 11:03:05 UTC+1, Chris Green wrote:
- Ideally would be a flush mounting CU, less choice
I think I'm leaning towards 2 but I'm having a bit of trouble finding
flush mounting 'main switch' CUs for an all RCBO set up.

A lot of metal surface CUs will flush mount quite nicely in plasterboard if you set the noggins neatly and trim the plasterboard carefully.

And you can stack metal CUs neatly using a length of trunking between the two. This pic shows some offcuts of I think MDF worktop used as a gasket bolted between the two metal surfaces to provide protection to the cables from the cutouts

https://www.diynot.com/diy/attachmen...39-jpg.164225/

Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:
snip

The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent. I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.


You could use 2 consumer units with a "Henley" block. Not as compact as
a stacked unit but then again they don't need to equal sizes.

This post was brought to you by choice-overload-R-us

Yes, I've seen this suggested elsewhere too but it does have
associated issues:-

Do you have two main switches? If so then is this a safety issue
in an emergency?

If not two main switches then how to feed second CU from the main
switch in the first one. This brings on all sorts of issues about
conformance/testing of CUs when in non-standard configuration.

Maybe add an external main switch, though this just duplicates the
issue of whether a CU without a main switch would be type tested.

--
Chris Green
·

Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:
snip

The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent.Â* I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.


You could use 2 consumer units with a "Henley" block.Â* Not as compact as
a stacked unit but then again they don't need to equal sizes.


PS

Just recalled that you can get stacking kits for some CUs which avoid
the need for the block. But I've never used them so you'd need advice
from those who have on the pros and cons. (FWLIW I've always wondered
about space for cable management if there's not a nice balance between
top and bottom entry.)

Yes, MK do them, but they're only for the surface mount CUs, not for
the flush mounting ones. If not found stacking kits from other
manufacturers.

--
Chris Green
·

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:58:49 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

- Need to extend incomer

Do you really mean that or just tails from meter?

Could the incomer, main cut out, meter and isolation switch (if
required, tails 1 m don't IIRC) remain in the shower room?

The company fuse and meter are in the garage, 50yds or so away from
the house. There is then a buried SWA feed from the garage (protected
by a switch/fuse unit in the garage) which feeds the house CU.


Mind you I'm not sure that incomer, cut out etc would be allowed in a
shower room in the first place so they may *have* to move. That move
is really down to the DNO (incomer and cutout) and your supplier
(meter). Good luck with that...

See above, all these are out in the garage and not moving.


- Access above is below floorboards in a cupboard so difficult
wiring

Make floor of cupboard a decent access panel?

Yes, I guess the T&G could be replaced by a sheet of ply or similar,
another job though. Plus working there would still involve kneeling and
leaning over a plasterboard ceiling, not my favourite occupation! :-)

Personally I'd look at the entrance hall with the CU inside a
suitably sized cupboard to hide it. If the regs allow THAT these
days...

I think it's either this or the cupboard upstairs, I'm still wandering
back and forth trying to see which would be easier (and neater).


--
Chris Green
·

On 17/07/2019 12:18, Chris Green wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 11:18, Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:
snip

The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent.Â* I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.


You could use 2 consumer units with a "Henley" block.Â* Not as compact as
a stacked unit but then again they don't need to equal sizes.


PS

Just recalled that you can get stacking kits for some CUs which avoid
the need for the block. But I've never used them so you'd need advice
from those who have on the pros and cons. (FWLIW I've always wondered
about space for cable management if there's not a nice balance between
top and bottom entry.)

Yes, MK do them, but they're only for the surface mount CUs, not for
the flush mounting ones. If not found stacking kits from other
manufacturers.


Another example is

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Contactum/Linking_Kit_DCA25.pdf

which also shows how to connect so only one main switch

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:

4 - Outside in weatherproof box on wall
- More expensive, need weatherproof box
+ Might get away not extending incomer
- A bit inconvenient in bad weather
- Hard wall, cable access not too easy
- Not very conventional

There are whole estates around here where the CU is in the meter box.

On 17/07/2019 12:17, Chris Green wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 17/07/2019 10:58, Chris Green wrote:
snip

The perfect solution (for the
cupboard) would be a 'stacked' 8 + 8 unit but, in the UK anyway,
stacked CUs are rare and flush mounting stacked ones non-existent. I
have found one from Garo but they're an Irish firm and I'm not really
sure about standards conformance.


You could use 2 consumer units with a "Henley" block. Not as compact as
a stacked unit but then again they don't need to equal sizes.

This post was brought to you by choice-overload-R-us

Yes, I've seen this suggested elsewhere too but it does have
associated issues:-

Do you have two main switches? If so then is this a safety issue
in an emergency?

I have two CUs here. I put a main switch in a stanalone enclosure first,
the tails from which then feed a henley thence the CUs.

If not two main switches then how to feed second CU from the main
switch in the first one. This brings on all sorts of issues about
conformance/testing of CUs when in non-standard configuration.

Not really any different from a stacking kit really - just need a nice
prominent "main switch" label on the right box.

Maybe add an external main switch, though this just duplicates the
issue of whether a CU without a main switch would be type tested.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/07/2019 12:25, Chris Green wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:58:49 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

- Need to extend incomer

Do you really mean that or just tails from meter?

Could the incomer, main cut out, meter and isolation switch (if
required, tails 1 m don't IIRC) remain in the shower room?

The company fuse and meter are in the garage, 50yds or so away from
the house. There is then a buried SWA feed from the garage (protected
by a switch/fuse unit in the garage) which feeds the house CU.

Having the switch fuse at the head end makes it a bit simpler - no need
to worry about length of tails etc.

Personally I'd look at the entrance hall with the CU inside a
suitably sized cupboard to hide it. If the regs allow THAT these
days...

I think it's either this or the cupboard upstairs, I'm still wandering
back and forth trying to see which would be easier (and neater).

Hall in a cupboard would offer least surprises for users.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Hall in a cupboard?

That's one hell of a massive cupboard if you manage to get the hall into it!

:-)

S.

On Wednesday, 17 July 2019 16:35:03 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
I have two CUs here. I put a main switch in a stanalone enclosure first,
the tails from which then feed a henley thence the CUs.

I don't know if it would be possible to use a 4-pole isolator eg

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC4.html

with L and N into two poles, and 2 pieces of busbar in the load terminals to split the load into 2 ways each pole?

Owain