Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
I would like to move a light switch. This will involve a new (but not
lengthy) cable run inside a stud wall, which I can do with no problems, but what's the recommended method of attaching the new cable to the old (either inside the present back box which can then be sealed in, or loose within the wall cavity)? I have to extend three earths, a joined live pair and a single live cable. Is there a UK-approved version of the US screw-on wire-nut? Or something similar? Many thanks. |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation
site, which seem to be made for the job. A pity to buy a multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly. But other suggestions will still be welcome. Thanks. |
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Bert Coules wrote:
Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly. screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure how well in works out with P&P http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72 or singly from here https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model. |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Thanks, Andy (though I have now been advised against them - see my other
post). Whatever method I use, one more question: as I said, I have to extend three earths, two twisted lives and one single live. Can I run just one single earth from the three in my connector to the new switch? And can I take just one single live from the two twisted or should I run both singly and then twist them again at the new switch? Thanks. |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Bert Coules wrote:
he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed inside a wall Put them in a wagobox and they're considered maintenance free (up to certain current limits which you won't hit on a lighting circuit) look for the MF mark on the box, some older ones didn't have it, but I doubt the Part P police will notice ... https://www.connexbox.com/assets/index/download/id/55/ |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 16/07/2019 13:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Bert Coules wrote: Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly. screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure how well in works out with P&P http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72 or singly from here https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html TLC do 10s of many https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/Wago_Connectors/Wago/index.html -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 16/07/2019 12:55, Bert Coules wrote:
I would like to move a light switch.Â* This will involve a new (but not lengthy) cable run inside a stud wall, which I can do with no problems, but what's the recommended method of attaching the new cable to the old (either inside the present back box which can then be sealed in, or loose within the wall cavity)? I have to extend three earths, a joined live pair and a single live cable. Is there a UK-approved version of the US screw-on wire-nut?Â* Or something similar?Â* Many thanks. I've used (insulated) crimps before now I think they are legal -- "What do you think about Gay Marriage?" "I don't." "Don't what?" "Think about Gay Marriage." |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 16/07/2019 13:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Bert Coules wrote: Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly. screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure how well in works out with P&P http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72 or singly from here https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html BigClive recently looked at a Wago clone for joining 3-core cable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP86SxqP7I8 -- Reentrant |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model. He has advised you incorrectly, you are not allowed to use screw connections in inaccessible places ie a stud wall. Wago type connectors are approved for inaccessible places within certain current limitations which a lighting will not exceed. The Toolsatan versions are available in packs of 10, however read the reviews most of the "sparkies" agree they are not genuine Wagos and point out the spring tension is much weaker and as a result do not recommend them so buyer beware! Richard |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message ... And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model. One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard positions when run in walls. The main provision (there are others) is that buried cable runs should be vertical or horizontal from a visible electrical item, and run within the width of the visible item. In this case it's likely that the cable runs vertically down the wall to your present light switch, and is therefore compliant. If you join the cable at the back box position, and then bury the joint in the wall and plaster over it, it will no longer be compliant, and will not show there is a cable at that postion. There is then a good chance that you, or someone in the future, will drill a hole in the live cable. The easy way to maintain compliance, and to provide access to the joint, is to use a blanking plate to cover the back box, thus replacing the switch, but showing there is a cable in the wall. You also need to consider the vertical/horizontal rule for the extra cable run that you are planning - and diagonal cable runs are NOT allowed! Charles F |
#12
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Charles F wrote:
One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard positions when run in walls. Thanks for that. I can use a blanking plate, that won't be a problem. Did you see my other question about extending the cable? The present box has three earths, two twisted live and one single live. Can I run single cables from the earths and the twisted lives to the new switch or should I maintain the separate cables for the run and only join them at the new location? |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Richard wrote:
He has advised you incorrectly... Thanks for that, and for the Toolstation hint. It's certainly a more attractive prospect to buy ten connectors rather than fifty (though even then the waste is unfortunate) but I shall check the reviews. |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Bert Coules wrote:
Charles F wrote: One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard positions when run in walls. Thanks for that. I can use a blanking plate, that won't be a problem. Did you see my other question about extending the cable? The present box has three earths, two twisted live and one single live. Can I run single cables from the earths and the twisted lives to the new switch or should I maintain the separate cables for the run and only join them at the new location? Single wires will be fine. One of the exising wires is single, and that is the limiting factor on the circuit anyway. 1mm T & E is probably fine, but if you use 1.5mm on a lighting circuit fused at 6 or 10A it is almost impossible for it to be wrong. Since both wires (which are not the earth wire) are live the blue wire could do with brown sleeving both ends. -- Roger Hayter |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 16/07/2019 14:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bert Coules wrote: Charles F wrote: One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard positions when run in walls. Thanks for that. I can use a blanking plate, that won't be a problem. Did you see my other question about extending the cable? The present box has three earths, two twisted live and one single live. Can I run single cables from the earths and the twisted lives to the new switch or should I maintain the separate cables for the run and only join them at the new location? Single wires will be fine. One of the exising wires is single, and that is the limiting factor on the circuit anyway. 1mm T & E is probably fine, but if you use 1.5mm on a lighting circuit fused at 6 or 10A it is almost impossible for it to be wrong. Since both wires (which are not the earth wire) are live the blue wire could do with brown sleeving both ends. Or black with red sleeving depending on how old the reserve of unused cable is. |
#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Thanks to Gareth's and Roger Hayter for the wiring advice. Using single
runs will make things a good deal neater. |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Bert Coules wrote:
And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model. That's actually entirely the wrong way round. Genuine Wago connectors *can* be used for inaccessible joints (if they're the right Wagos in the right sort of box), screw terminals in a junction box are *not* allowed to be inaccessible. -- Chris Green · |
#18
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 16/07/2019 14:23, Bert Coules wrote:
It's certainly a more attractive prospect to buy ten connectors rather than fifty (though even then the waste is unfortunate) but I shall check the reviews. For very small quantities you might find better prices on Ebay. The price per connector will be higher but you'll avoid having to pay several pounds for delivery. But be careful to avoid clones, if they clearly claim to be Wago and the seller provides a UK address then they stand a fair chance of being genuine. I recently got some Wago 221 connectors which seem to be OK from http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/LED-Esse...l1513& _pgn=1 or http://preview.tinyurl.com/y4t3w64b |
#19
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
Mike Clarke wrote:
I recently got some Wago 221 connectors which seem to be OK from http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/LED-Esse...l1513& _pgn=1 Still slightly odd that the description is all in «Scorcio!» when they claim to be in Yorkshire |
#20
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 2019-07-16, Andy Burns wrote:
Bert Coules wrote: Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly. screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure how well in works out with P&P http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72 or singly from here https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html I think TLC Direct also sells Wago connectors in any quantity. |
#21
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
On 2019-07-16, Chris Green wrote:
Bert Coules wrote: And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model. That's actually entirely the wrong way round. Genuine Wago connectors *can* be used for inaccessible joints (if they're the right Wagos in the right sort of box), screw terminals in a junction box are *not* allowed to be inaccessible. Screw terminals can work loose over time. I had to do exploratory surgery in the kitchen ceiling a few years ago when the lights started flickering occasionally --- the old junction box was the culprit. |
#22
Posted to uk.d-i-y
|
|||
|
|||
Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall
The job is now done. In the end I did use the Toolstation lever connectors:
the positive reviews were at least as numerous (if not more so) than the negatives, and the spring closure seemed perfectly OK to me: with all my effort I couldn't pull out the wires, and it's hard to imagine them being subjected to a greater force, given that the cables are tethered and the whole thing is behind a blanking plate. I don't know about the rating, but I suppose time will tell. I was also able to get a proper horizontal run, and marked the blue wires with red insulation tape (not having any brown). Many thanks to all for the help and advice. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
extending cable length of low voltage lighting | UK diy | |||
Running ring main inside stud-wall | UK diy | |||
Cable support inside stud walls? | UK diy | |||
extending coax cable to cable-modem | UK diy | |||
IKEA kitchen wall cabinet hanging on plaster wall without stud | UK diy |