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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

I would like to move a light switch. This will involve a new (but not
lengthy) cable run inside a stud wall, which I can do with no problems, but
what's the recommended method of attaching the new cable to the old (either
inside the present back box which can then be sealed in, or loose within the
wall cavity)?

I have to extend three earths, a joined live pair and a single live cable.

Is there a UK-approved version of the US screw-on wire-nut? Or something
similar? Many thanks.


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Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation
site, which seem to be made for the job. A pity to buy a multi-pack,
though; I'll see if I can find them available singly.

But other suggestions will still be welcome. Thanks.

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Bert Coules wrote:
Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation
site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a multi-pack,
though; I'll see if I can find them available singly.


screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can
get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure
how well in works out with P&P

http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72

or singly from here

https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html
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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he
advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed
inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction
box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model.

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Thanks, Andy (though I have now been advised against them - see my other
post).

Whatever method I use, one more question: as I said, I have to extend three
earths, two twisted lives and one single live. Can I run just one single
earth from the three in my connector to the new switch? And can I take just
one single live from the two twisted or should I run both singly and then
twist them again at the new switch? Thanks.



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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Bert Coules wrote:

he advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be
sealed inside a wall


Put them in a wagobox and they're considered maintenance free (up to
certain current limits which you won't hit on a lighting circuit) look
for the MF mark on the box, some older ones didn't have it, but I doubt
the Part P police will notice ...


https://www.connexbox.com/assets/index/download/id/55/
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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

On 16/07/2019 13:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the
Toolstation site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a
multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly.


screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can
get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure
how well in works out with P&P

http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72

or singly from here

https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html


TLC do 10s of many

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/Wago_Connectors/Wago/index.html



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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

On 16/07/2019 12:55, Bert Coules wrote:
I would like to move a light switch.Â* This will involve a new (but not
lengthy) cable run inside a stud wall, which I can do with no problems,
but what's the recommended method of attaching the new cable to the old
(either inside the present back box which can then be sealed in, or
loose within the wall cavity)?

I have to extend three earths, a joined live pair and a single live cable.

Is there a UK-approved version of the US screw-on wire-nut?Â* Or
something similar?Â* Many thanks.


I've used (insulated) crimps before now
I think they are legal



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"I don't."
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"Think about Gay Marriage."

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

On 16/07/2019 13:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the
Toolstation site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a
multi-pack, though; I'll see if I can find them available singly.


screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can
get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure
how well in works out with P&P

http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72

or singly from here

https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html



BigClive recently looked at a Wago clone for joining 3-core cable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP86SxqP7I8

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he
advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed
inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction
box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model.


He has advised you incorrectly, you are not allowed to use screw connections in inaccessible places ie a stud wall. Wago type connectors are approved for inaccessible places within certain current limitations which a lighting will not exceed. The Toolsatan versions are available in packs of 10, however read the reviews most of the "sparkies" agree they are not genuine Wagos and point out the spring tension is much weaker and as a result do not recommend them so buyer beware!

Richard


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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall


"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he
advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed
inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction
box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model.



One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard
positions when run in walls. The main provision (there are others) is that
buried cable runs should be vertical or horizontal from a visible electrical
item, and run within the width of the visible item. In this case it's likely
that the cable runs vertically down the wall to your present light switch,
and is therefore compliant. If you join the cable at the back box position,
and then bury the joint in the wall and plaster over it, it will no longer
be compliant, and will not show there is a cable at that postion. There is
then a good chance that you, or someone in the future, will drill a hole in
the live cable.

The easy way to maintain compliance, and to provide access to the joint, is
to use a blanking plate to cover the back box, thus replacing the switch,
but showing there is a cable in the wall.

You also need to consider the vertical/horizontal rule for the extra cable
run that you are planning - and diagonal cable runs are NOT allowed!

Charles F


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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Charles F wrote:

One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard
positions when run in walls.


Thanks for that. I can use a blanking plate, that won't be a problem.

Did you see my other question about extending the cable? The present box
has three earths, two twisted live and one single live. Can I run single
cables from the earths and the twisted lives to the new switch or should I
maintain the separate cables for the run and only join them at the new
location?

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Richard wrote:

He has advised you incorrectly...

Thanks for that, and for the Toolstation hint. It's certainly a more
attractive prospect to buy ten connectors rather than fifty (though even
then the waste is unfortunate) but I shall check the reviews.

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Bert Coules wrote:

Charles F wrote:

One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard
positions when run in walls.


Thanks for that. I can use a blanking plate, that won't be a problem.

Did you see my other question about extending the cable? The present box
has three earths, two twisted live and one single live. Can I run single
cables from the earths and the twisted lives to the new switch or should I
maintain the separate cables for the run and only join them at the new
location?


Single wires will be fine. One of the exising wires is single, and that
is the limiting factor on the circuit anyway. 1mm T & E is probably
fine, but if you use 1.5mm on a lighting circuit fused at 6 or 10A it is
almost impossible for it to be wrong. Since both wires (which are not
the earth wire) are live the blue wire could do with brown sleeving both
ends.



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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

On 16/07/2019 14:46, Roger Hayter wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:

Charles F wrote:

One other thing to consider is that cable runs have to be in standard
positions when run in walls.


Thanks for that. I can use a blanking plate, that won't be a problem.

Did you see my other question about extending the cable? The present box
has three earths, two twisted live and one single live. Can I run single
cables from the earths and the twisted lives to the new switch or should I
maintain the separate cables for the run and only join them at the new
location?


Single wires will be fine. One of the exising wires is single, and that
is the limiting factor on the circuit anyway. 1mm T & E is probably
fine, but if you use 1.5mm on a lighting circuit fused at 6 or 10A it is
almost impossible for it to be wrong. Since both wires (which are not
the earth wire) are live the blue wire could do with brown sleeving both
ends.




Or black with red sleeving depending on how old the reserve of unused
cable is.




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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

Thanks to Gareth's and Roger Hayter for the wiring advice. Using single
runs will make things a good deal neater.

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Bert Coules wrote:
And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he
advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed
inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction
box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model.

That's actually entirely the wrong way round. Genuine Wago connectors
*can* be used for inaccessible joints (if they're the right Wagos in
the right sort of box), screw terminals in a junction box are *not*
allowed to be inaccessible.

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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

On 16/07/2019 14:23, Bert Coules wrote:
It's certainly a more attractive prospect to buy ten connectors rather
than fifty (though even then the waste is unfortunate) but I shall check
the reviews.


For very small quantities you might find better prices on Ebay. The
price per connector will be higher but you'll avoid having to pay
several pounds for delivery. But be careful to avoid clones, if they
clearly claim to be Wago and the seller provides a UK address then they
stand a fair chance of being genuine.

I recently got some Wago 221 connectors which seem to be OK from
http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/LED-Esse...l1513& _pgn=1

or http://preview.tinyurl.com/y4t3w64b

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Mike Clarke wrote:

I recently got some Wago 221 connectors which seem to be OK from
http://www.ebaystores.co.uk/LED-Esse...l1513& _pgn=1


Still slightly odd that the description is all in «Scorcio!» when they
claim to be in Yorkshire
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On 2019-07-16, Andy Burns wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:
Ah, I've just discovered these Lever Wire Connectors on the Toolstation
site, which seem to be made for the job.Â* A pity to buy a multi-pack,
though; I'll see if I can find them available singly.


screwfix sell the 'kosher' wagos, but still in large 50x packs, you can
get the genuine ones in smaller 20x packs, or an assortment, not sure
how well in works out with P&P

http://secure.wago.ltd.uk/index.php?rt=product/category&path=68_69_72

or singly from here

https://www.connexbox.com/shop/connectors/wago-222-412-2-port-lever-cage-clamp-terminal-block.html


I think TLC Direct also sells Wago connectors in any quantity.


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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

On 2019-07-16, Chris Green wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:
And another follow-up. I just spoke to a local retailer asking about the
lever connectors. They only sell them in bags of fifty, but in any case he
advised against them, especially for a connection that's going to be sealed
inside a wall. He recommended a conventional round screw-terminal junction
box, either the usual size or a 2.5" diameter model.

That's actually entirely the wrong way round. Genuine Wago connectors
*can* be used for inaccessible joints (if they're the right Wagos in
the right sort of box), screw terminals in a junction box are *not*
allowed to be inaccessible.


Screw terminals can work loose over time. I had to do exploratory
surgery in the kitchen ceiling a few years ago when the lights started
flickering occasionally --- the old junction box was the culprit.
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Default Extending lighting cable inside a stud wall

The job is now done. In the end I did use the Toolstation lever connectors:
the positive reviews were at least as numerous (if not more so) than the
negatives, and the spring closure seemed perfectly OK to me: with all my
effort I couldn't pull out the wires, and it's hard to imagine them being
subjected to a greater force, given that the cables are tethered and the
whole thing is behind a blanking plate. I don't know about the rating, but
I suppose time will tell.

I was also able to get a proper horizontal run, and marked the blue wires
with red insulation tape (not having any brown).

Many thanks to all for the help and advice.

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