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Graeme[_7_] July 11th 19 08:44 PM

MES bulb repair
 

I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb. Very common in the US, but unheard
of here (unless you know better?), and postage is a killer.

I have a blown bulb, and can probably get the glass out of the base, but
can I cut the base of the glass? Thinking if I could cut the glass, I
could insert a grain of wheat bulb, which will do the job, but how to
cut the glass?
--
Graeme

Andy Burns[_13_] July 11th 19 08:53 PM

MES bulb repair
 
Graeme wrote:

I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


Any good?

https://cpc.farnell.com/electrovision/f018g/12v-mes/dp/AR70338

You'd have to 20 to get free P&P

Fredxx[_3_] July 11th 19 08:58 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:

I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


What's a 'dimple bulb'? Do you mean one with a lens? In which case an
LED bulb would be a good alternative.

Very common in the US, but unheard
of here (unless you know better?), and postage is a killer.

I have a blown bulb, and can probably get the glass out of the base, but
can I cut the base of the glass?Â* Thinking if I could cut the glass, I
could insert a grain of wheat bulb, which will do the job, but how to
cut the glass?


Standard MES bulb uses a ceramic cement to 'glue' the glass envelope
into the base.


[email protected] July 11th 19 09:00 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On Thursday, 11 July 2019 19:44:36 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb. Very common in the US, but unheard
of here (unless you know better?), and postage is a killer.


I'm not quite sure what a dimple bulb is, but would any here be suitable

https://www.mygreenlighting.co.uk/re..._mes/8922.html

They have a couple of 12 volt halogens in E10 / MES cap

Or CPC have MES bulbs

https://cpc.farnell.com/c/electrical...e-type=e10-mes

including this one which is wrong voltage but might give you extras to cannibalise?

https://cpc.farnell.com/duracell/703...mes/dp/LA00711

Owain


Owain

[email protected] July 11th 19 09:28 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On Thursday, 11 July 2019 19:44:36 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb. Very common in the US, but unheard
of here (unless you know better?), and postage is a killer.

I have a blown bulb, and can probably get the glass out of the base, but
can I cut the base of the glass? Thinking if I could cut the glass, I
could insert a grain of wheat bulb, which will do the job, but how to
cut the glass?


Squeeze with pliers.


NT

Graeme[_7_] July 11th 19 11:16 PM

MES bulb repair
 
In message , Fredxx
writes
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:
I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


What's a 'dimple bulb'? Do you mean one with a lens? In which case an
LED bulb would be a good alternative.


Thanks all, for the suggestions. A dimple bulb has a dimple in the top
of the bulb. I should have explained - as said, common in the US, but
not here :-)

Why? Remember the aquarium pump thread a couple of weeks ago? This is
all about a Marx toy beacon tower which uses a dimple bulb on top of
which balances a lightweight beacon with red and green lenses. Vanes in
the top of the beacon, the idea being that the heat from the bulb rises
through the vanes, causing the beacon to rotate, balanced in the bulb
dimple. Great idea but it rarely works so a friend had the idea of
using an aquarium pump to direct a jet of air through the vanes. It
works perfectly, but just as I got mine going, the poxy bulb blew! I
suppose the bulb must be 60 years old, so shouldn't really complain.


--
Graeme

Andy Burns[_13_] July 11th 19 11:19 PM

MES bulb repair
 
Graeme wrote:

I suppose the bulb must be 60 years old, so shouldn't really complain.


A strawhat LED with suitable resistor to run on 12V, and drill your own
dimple in the top?



Fredxx[_3_] July 12th 19 01:14 AM

MES bulb repair
 
On 11/07/2019 22:16, Graeme wrote:
In message , Fredxx writes
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:
Â*I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


What's a 'dimple bulb'? Do you mean one with a lens? In which case an
LED bulb would be a good alternative.


Thanks all, for the suggestions.Â* A dimple bulb has a dimple in the top
of the bulb.Â* I should have explained - as said, common in the US, but
not here :-)


I've tried google images and got nowhere. This is where a link to a
picture might help.

Graeme[_7_] July 12th 19 08:25 AM

MES bulb repair
 
In message , Fredxx
writes

I've tried google images and got nowhere. This is where a link to a
picture might help.


You're right, of course. eBay US item 223553936563

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lionel-39...-WITH-DIMPLE-B
ULB-NEW/223553936563?epid=1739264075&hash=item340cda5cb3:g :kXIAAOSw5cNYeo
Ob

Intrigued by Andy's suggestion of drilling an LED bulb. Should I infer
that such a bulb (never used one) is plastic, rather than glass?

--
Graeme

Chris Bartram[_2_] July 12th 19 09:29 AM

MES bulb repair
 
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:

I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.Â* Very common in the US, but unheard
of here (unless you know better?), and postage is a killer.

I have a blown bulb, and can probably get the glass out of the base, but
can I cut the base of the glass?Â* Thinking if I could cut the glass, I
could insert a grain of wheat bulb, which will do the job, but how to
cut the glass?

Dremel?

Andy Burns[_13_] July 12th 19 09:32 AM

MES bulb repair
 
Graeme wrote:

Intrigued by Andy's suggestion of drilling an LED bulb.


Not a "bulb" just an LED.

straw-hats have an internal conical reflector so they tend to shine
sideways, which I assume your rotary flasher needs? You'd need to drill
your own dimple for your pivit e.g with a countersink drill bit, or
chamfer router bit, you wouldn't want to drill too far at risk of
damaging the LED die, so buy a big bag cheap from china to allow
experiments, e.g.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-lot-Ultra-Bright-0-75W-F8-White-LED-8-mm-Straw-Hat-Light-Emitting-Diodes/32286410626.html

Andy Burns[_13_] July 12th 19 09:34 AM

MES bulb repair
 
Andy Burns wrote:

Not a "bulb" just an LED.


Then epoxy the modified LED with suitable current limiting resister into
a rescued MES base.

Brian Gaff July 12th 19 09:36 AM

MES bulb repair
 
Would it not be easier to remove the bulb, smash it somewhere graunch out
the remains from the screwed bit and then solder in whatever you fancy?

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:

I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


What's a 'dimple bulb'? Do you mean one with a lens? In which case an LED
bulb would be a good alternative.

Very common in the US, but unheard of here (unless you know better?), and
postage is a killer.

I have a blown bulb, and can probably get the glass out of the base, but
can I cut the base of the glass? Thinking if I could cut the glass, I
could insert a grain of wheat bulb, which will do the job, but how to cut
the glass?


Standard MES bulb uses a ceramic cement to 'glue' the glass envelope into
the base.




Brian Gaff July 12th 19 09:39 AM

MES bulb repair
 
I'm not sure what you mean by dimple. a lot of larger torch bulbs have a
kind of uneven bit on the top, one assumes this was where the bulb was
sealed.
I still prefer screw bulbs for low voltage use instead of those pesky
bayonet types that seem to only make contact now and again when the spring
gets tired.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Fredxx writes
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:
I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


What's a 'dimple bulb'? Do you mean one with a lens? In which case an LED
bulb would be a good alternative.


Thanks all, for the suggestions. A dimple bulb has a dimple in the top of
the bulb. I should have explained - as said, common in the US, but not
here :-)

Why? Remember the aquarium pump thread a couple of weeks ago? This is
all about a Marx toy beacon tower which uses a dimple bulb on top of which
balances a lightweight beacon with red and green lenses. Vanes in the top
of the beacon, the idea being that the heat from the bulb rises through
the vanes, causing the beacon to rotate, balanced in the bulb dimple.
Great idea but it rarely works so a friend had the idea of using an
aquarium pump to direct a jet of air through the vanes. It works
perfectly, but just as I got mine going, the poxy bulb blew! I suppose
the bulb must be 60 years old, so shouldn't really complain.


--
Graeme




Harry Bloomfield[_3_] July 12th 19 10:55 AM

MES bulb repair
 
Graeme wrote :
Great idea but it rarely works so a friend had the idea of using an aquarium
pump to direct a jet of air through the vanes. It works perfectly, but just
as I got mine going, the poxy bulb blew! I suppose the bulb must be 60 years
old, so shouldn't really complain.


If rising heat from the bulb was enough to make it spin, rather than
the pump, why not use the heat produced by a resistor? It would be
completely silent.

What is the supply voltage of this gadget?

Graeme[_7_] July 12th 19 11:42 AM

MES bulb repair
 
In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes

If rising heat from the bulb was enough to make it spin, rather than
the pump, why not use the heat produced by a resistor? It would be
completely silent.


Harry, the problem is that these devices have rarely if ever worked
properly since new. There just isn't enough heat to turn the beacon. It
is sometimes possible to get the beacon moving for a while with a quick
nudge, but it rarely spins for long. Another manufacturer (Lionel) had
a similar product which they withdrew and replaced with a motor powered
beacon because the heat version was unreliable.

What is the supply voltage of this gadget?


14v, although I use 12v, with the help of the little pump, which also
requires 12v. I have standardised on 12v for all bulbs and accessories.

Getting back to the pump, I was put off reducing the supply voltage
partly because it is convenient to have everything running at 12v, and
partly because, as was said, the pump may not start or run well on a
reduced voltage. I bought a Y piece to go in the tube, with one branch
running to the beacon and the other to a little plastic reducer valve
which allows fine tuning of the supply to the beacon, and works well.


--
Graeme

Fredxx[_3_] July 12th 19 12:53 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On 12/07/2019 08:34, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Not a "bulb" just an LED.


Then epoxy the modified LED with suitable current limiting resister into
a rescued MES base.


You can buy MES LEDs with a flat top on eBay for a few ££s.

Dennis@home July 12th 19 01:25 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On 11/07/2019 22:19, Andy Burns wrote:
Graeme wrote:

I suppose the bulb must be 60 years old, so shouldn't really complain.


A strawhat LED with suitable resistor to run on 12V, and drill your own
dimple in the top?



Some LEDs come with a dimple in them, I can't remember what they are
called but maybe straw hat ones.



Thomas Prufer July 12th 19 01:41 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:32:26 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

straw-hats have an internal conical reflector so they tend to shine
sideways, which I assume your rotary flasher needs? You'd need to drill
your own dimple for your pivit e.g with a countersink drill bit, or
chamfer router bit, you wouldn't want to drill too far at risk of
damaging the LED die, so buy a big bag cheap from china to allow
experiments, e.g.


There's wide-angle LEDs that have such a dimple.

Can't find or google the name... but I guarantee they exist because I have some,
somewhere...

And the two-wire plastic LED top can be sanded, drilled, and ground very easily.


Thomas Prufer

Dennis@home July 12th 19 01:46 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On 12/07/2019 07:25, Graeme wrote:
In message , Fredxx writes

I've tried google images and got nowhere. This is where a link to a
picture might help.


You're right, of course.Â* eBay US item 223553936563

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lionel-39...-WITH-DIMPLE-B
ULB-NEW/223553936563?epid=1739264075&hash=item340cda5cb3:g :kXIAAOSw5cNYeo
Ob

Intrigued by Andy's suggestion of drilling an LED bulb.Â* Should I infer
that such a bulb (never used one) is plastic, rather than glass?


LEDs are plastic.

Now we know what it looks like..

use an ordinary bulb and glue a small washer on the top (M2 or less).

It only has to stop the pin falling off.


Andy Burns[_13_] July 12th 19 01:53 PM

MES bulb repair
 
Fredxx wrote:

You can buy MES LEDs with a flat top on eBay for a few ££s.


These look ok, graeme could probably glue some form of pivot on top of them

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-SMD-MES-12V/153124021726

the four side facing LEDs might even give better flash rather than sweep
from the lighthouse ...


Graeme[_7_] July 12th 19 02:17 PM

MES bulb repair
 
In message , Andy Burns
writes
Fredxx wrote:

You can buy MES LEDs with a flat top on eBay for a few ££s.


These look ok, graeme could probably glue some form of pivot on top of them


Perfect! Yes, Dennis said something similar, regarding a pivot. I have
a stock of M2.5 washers, which fit Hornby axles (!), so may do the job.
Never having used LED bulbs, I hadn't appreciated that the 'glass' is
actually plastic.
--
Graeme

harry July 12th 19 02:40 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On Friday, 12 July 2019 11:53:43 UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/07/2019 08:34, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Not a "bulb" just an LED.


Then epoxy the modified LED with suitable current limiting resister into
a rescued MES base.


You can buy MES LEDs with a flat top on eBay for a few ££s.


There will be insufficient heat from an LED to run his "fan/turbine"

Andy Burns[_13_] July 12th 19 02:45 PM

MES bulb repair
 
harry wrote:

There will be insufficient heat from an LED to run his "fan/turbine"


He doesn't want to drive the fan with heat, he has his pump for that.

Graeme[_7_] July 12th 19 03:13 PM

MES bulb repair
 
In message , Andy Burns
writes
harry wrote:

There will be insufficient heat from an LED to run his "fan/turbine"


He doesn't want to drive the fan with heat, he has his pump for that.


Indeed. I did wonder whether the original bulb blew because I was
pumping a jet of cold air up the side of a hot bulb. Probably not, but
at least a cold LED bulb will not worry about a jet of cold air.
--
Graeme

Dave W[_2_] July 12th 19 04:19 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:16:16 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message , Fredxx
writes
On 11/07/2019 19:44, Graeme wrote:
I need a 12 - 14v MES dimple bulb.


What's a 'dimple bulb'? Do you mean one with a lens? In which case an
LED bulb would be a good alternative.


Thanks all, for the suggestions. A dimple bulb has a dimple in the top
of the bulb. I should have explained - as said, common in the US, but
not here :-)

Why? Remember the aquarium pump thread a couple of weeks ago? This is
all about a Marx toy beacon tower which uses a dimple bulb on top of
which balances a lightweight beacon with red and green lenses. Vanes in
the top of the beacon, the idea being that the heat from the bulb rises
through the vanes, causing the beacon to rotate, balanced in the bulb
dimple. Great idea but it rarely works so a friend had the idea of
using an aquarium pump to direct a jet of air through the vanes. It
works perfectly, but just as I got mine going, the poxy bulb blew! I
suppose the bulb must be 60 years old, so shouldn't really complain.


This reminds me of my old elctric fire that has vanes balanced on
gramophone needles over red 'Fireglow' 60W bulbs under a coal-effect
top. When the vanes rotate it gives the effect of flames in the coals.

The trouble is, the vanes have glass cetres with a conical well that
balances on the points. This works fine initially, but eventually the
glass loses its shine owing to being worn by the needles, and the
vanes will not keep going even if I sharpen the needles.

Your dimpled bulb was probably worn down by the point on the rotating
vane, which is why it wouldn't work very well.

Your new LED arrangement will probably need a dimple made of glass
rather than rough plastic.
--
Dave W



Harry Bloomfield[_3_] July 12th 19 10:54 PM

MES bulb repair
 
Graeme expressed precisely :
Harry, the problem is that these devices have rarely if ever worked properly
since new. There just isn't enough heat to turn the beacon. It is sometimes
possible to get the beacon moving for a while with a quick nudge, but it
rarely spins for long. Another manufacturer (Lionel) had a similar product
which they withdrew and replaced with a motor powered beacon because the heat
version was unreliable.


Assuming the 'heat version' relied upon waste heat from the lamp, a
resistor could provide much more heat than a bulb.

Dennis@home July 12th 19 11:04 PM

MES bulb repair
 
On 12/07/2019 21:54, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Graeme expressed precisely :
Harry, the problem is that these devices have rarely if ever worked
properly since new.* There just isn't enough heat to turn the beacon.
It is sometimes possible to get the beacon moving for a while with a
quick nudge, but it rarely spins for long.* Another manufacturer
(Lionel) had a similar product which they withdrew and replaced with a
motor powered beacon because the heat version was unreliable.


Assuming the 'heat version' relied upon waste heat from the lamp, a
resistor could provide much more heat than a bulb.


And fry the LED at the same time.


[email protected] July 13th 19 12:12 PM

MES bulb repair
 
Having had a look at the eBay item, its hard (at least for me) to understand how the bit with the green & red lenses and the bulb and the spinny vane thing would work together??

Graeme[_7_] July 13th 19 02:08 PM

MES bulb repair
 
In message ,
writes
Having had a look at the eBay item, its hard (at least for me) to
understand how the bit with the green & red lenses and the bulb and the
spinny vane thing would work together??


The bulb sits at the top of a tower, pointing upwards. There is a
dimple in the top of the bulb. The red/green spinny thing (with the
vane in the top) has a spike inside, pointing down, the spike sitting in
the dimple in the bulb. The theory is the heat from the bulb rises up,
and exits via the vanes, causing the whole red/green part to rotate.

Yesterday, I ordered an LED bulb, as linked by Andy, and it arrived this
morning. The top is already slightly concave, and there looks to be
enough material there to allow a twist or two with a drill to create
slightly more of a dimple. Unfortunately, the bulb does not easily
screw into the holder, although both are MES. That can be overcome,
though.
--
Graeme


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