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"ss" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2019 08:52, Chris Bartram wrote:

I'd agree this looks like WEP, but it sounds to me like the netbook may
be only able to handle WEP while the router is proably WPA/WPA2-PSK.


The netbook was working before from that router.


But might have got its config changed so its now attempting to use WEP
when previously it wasnt doing that.

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On 07/07/2019 23:43, ss wrote:
On 07/07/2019 11:50, T i m wrote:
p.s. How well did you get on connecting the Netbook to someone else's
(friend / family / iNetCafe) router?


Seriously Tim me even thinking about trying Linux would be suicidal, I
am prety much out of my depth with this already.

As yet I have not tried using a friends wi-fi as I have been away for a
couple of weeks I can hopefully get a neighbour to try for me.


I think you are trolling them really well. Just answering enough of the
questions to keep them coming back for more. Carefully ignoring to
answer certain parts of the questions etc. That requires skill.

I'll give you 8/10 for keeping them replying, not to one thread, but two.
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On 08/07/2019 19:21, Jack98 wrote:


"ss" wrote in message
...
On 08/07/2019 08:52, Chris Bartram wrote:

I'd agree this looks like WEP, but it sounds to me like the netbook
may be only able to handle WEP while the router is proably WPA/WPA2-PSK.


The netbook was working before from that router.


But might have got its config changed so its now attempting to use WEP
when previously it wasnt doing that.


And with XP it looks like thats an option you can set on the wifi connection


--
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On 08/07/2019 16:59, John Rumm wrote:
If you can get the netbook running on the ethernet as a temporary
measure, then drop me an email (or give me a bell on the office number -
see web site), and I can arrange to have a look at it for you via remote
control.


Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.
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On 08/07/2019 19:26, mm0fmf wrote:
I think you are trolling them really well. Just answering enough of the
questions to keep them coming back for more. Carefully ignoring to
answer certain parts of the questions etc. That requires skill.

I'll give you 8/10 for keeping them replying, not to one thread, but two.


You are entiltled to your opinion but a lack of knowledge on a
particular subject does not equate to trolling.


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On 08/07/2019 20:51, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 19:26, mm0fmf wrote:
I think you are trolling them really well. Just answering enough of
the questions to keep them coming back for more. Carefully ignoring to
answer certain parts of the questions etc. That requires skill.

I'll give you 8/10 for keeping them replying, not to one thread, but two.


You are entiltled to your opinion but a lack of knowledge on a
particular subject does not equate to trolling.


No. Its borderline but sadly pretending to be clueless is a classic
technique.

Have you gone into control panel and tried to set up a new wifi
connection using the wizard, selecting WPA, and entering the info on
the back of the router for SSIFD and password, yet?



--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.
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On 08/07/2019 21:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Have you gone into control panel and tried to set up a new wifi
connection using the wizard,Â*Â* selecting WPA, and entering the info on
the back of the router for SSIFD and password, yet?


I deleted all the wireless connections and started a new one.
I think I was doing ok until this cropped up:

....""It is asking for a network password needs to be 40bits or 104bits
depending on your network configuration. This can be entered as a 5 or
13 ascii characters or 10 or 26 hexadecimal characters"......
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On 08/07/2019 21:11, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 21:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Have you gone into control panel and tried to set up a new wifi
connection using the wizard,Â*Â* selecting WPA, and entering the info on
the back of the router for SSIFD and password, yet?


I deleted all the wireless connections and started a new one.
I think I was doing ok until this cropped up:

...""It is asking for a network password needs to be 40bits or 104bits
depending on your network configuration. This can be entered as a 5 or
13 ascii characters or 10 or 26 hexadecimal characters"......

Then you did NOT tick the box at the bottom of the first screen that
says 'WPA'

Go back start again and look on every screen for 'WPA'




--
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€“ Ludwig von Mises
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On 08/07/2019 21:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
...""It is asking for a network password needs to be 40bits or 104bits
depending on your network configuration. This can be entered as a 5 or
13 ascii characters or 10 or 26 hexadecimal characters"......

Then you did NOT tick the box at the bottom of the first screen that
says 'WPA'

Go back start again and look on every screen for 'WPA'


I changed from WPA2 to WPA and comes back with unable to find
certificate and when I go back to properties it has reverted back to WPA2
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On 08/07/2019 21:52, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 21:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
...""It is asking for a network password needs to be 40bits or
104bits depending on your network configuration. This can be entered
as a 5 or 13 ascii characters or 10 or 26 hexadecimal characters"......

Then you did NOT tick the box at the bottom of the first screen that
says 'WPA'

Go back start again and look on every screen for 'WPA'


I changed from WPA2 to WPA and comes back with unable to find
certificate and when I go back to properties it has reverted back to WPA2



If it was asking you for "40bits or 104bits depending on your network
configuration. " then you had WEP configured, not WPA nor WPA2.

If te XP end is right summat is up with the router


--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"



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On 08/07/2019 19:56, ss wrote:
Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.


Update:

I think I can close this off now. The netbook has been investigated in
depth by remote by J Rumm for over an hour, the situation is still not
resolved and looks like winxp is likely the issue. I am confident that
all the contributions by others were covered by John, I say confident in
as much I havent a clue to most of what he was looking at.

Anyhow I do thank you all for your contributions and a special thanks
to John for the time taken to investigate it for me.

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On 09/07/2019 21:56, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 19:56, ss wrote:
Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.


Update:

I think I can close this off now. The netbook has been investigated in
depth by remote by J Rumm for over an hour, the situation is still not
resolvedÂ* and looks like winxp is likely the issue. I am confident that
all the contributions by others were covered by John, I say confident in
as much I havent a clue to most of what he was looking at.

Anyhow I do thank you all for your contributionsÂ* and a special thanks
to John for the time taken to investigate it for me.


For those still following along, I will give a quick summary of what we
know now...

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue. WinXP was correctly identifying WPA, and
actually connected without any difficulty.

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi. If I manually assign an IP in the correct subnet, then it works
ok. However that is not a useable solution for the use case required.

The router configuration and DHCP setup is fine (and other wifi devices
have connected and DHCPed ok)

This could be related to the issues addressed in KB953761 (DHCP options
not recognised, when sever includes option 43). However that hotfix does
not seem to have done it initially at least, although I am currently
clarifying an issue on that.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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On 10/07/2019 02:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/07/2019 21:56, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 19:56, ss wrote:
Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.


Update:

I think I can close this off now. The netbook has been investigated in
depth by remote by J Rumm for over an hour, the situation is still not
resolvedÂ* and looks like winxp is likely the issue. I am confident
that all the contributions by others were covered by John, I say
confident in as much I havent a clue to most of what he was looking at.

Anyhow I do thank you all for your contributionsÂ* and a special thanks
to John for the time taken to investigate it for me.


For those still following along, I will give a quick summary of what we
know now...

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue. WinXP was correctly identifying WPA, and
actually connected without any difficulty.

so why was it issuing a wep error message?

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi. If I manually assign an IP in the correct subnet, then it works
ok. However that is not a useable solution for the use case required.


router has some special magic for its mac addr?


The router configuration and DHCP setup is fine (and other wifi devices
have connected and DHCPed ok)

This could be related to the issues addressed in KB953761 (DHCP options
not recognised, when sever includes option 43). However that hotfix does
not seem to have done it initially at least, although I am currently
clarifying an issue on that.




--
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...I'd spend it on drink.

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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 02:08:17 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

For those still following along, I will give a quick summary of what we
know now...

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue.


And some were so convinced it was. ;-)

actually connected without any difficulty.

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi.


And we know DHCP works over Ethernet.

If I manually assign an IP in the correct subnet, then it works
ok.


Inc DNS etc?

is not a useable solution for the use case required.


Mobile netbook ... I'd still be interested to see if it connects
wirelessly to *another* network.

The router configuration and DHCP setup is fine (and other wifi devices
have connected and DHCPed ok)


I'd be interested to see if that netbook could connect to that router
with Linux. ;-)

This could be related to the issues addressed in KB953761 (DHCP options
not recognised, when sever includes option 43). However that hotfix does
not seem to have done it initially at least, although I am currently
clarifying an issue on that.


And it did connect to that router previously, possibly before VM
rolled out an update?

Can I think you for doing what this group was known for, helping
people in the real use of the word. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Just a thought given your findings, was there a 3rd party
Firewall on there?
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T i m wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue.


And some were so convinced it was. ;-)


well, without "being there" the error messages did hint at WEP

actually connected without any difficulty.


I think we did conclude that it had associated to the wifi last time around

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi.


that too, hence trying to get the O/P to test static addr last time when
it was getting APIPA

I'd be interested to see if that netbook could connect to that router
with Linux. ;-)


Doesn't really get anywhere if the O/P wants XP ...


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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 09:37:32 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

snip

I'd be interested to see if that netbook could connect to that router
with Linux. ;-)


Doesn't really get anywhere if the O/P wants XP ...


Not really the goal though Andy [1]. It would be to test to see if the
hardware will *still* connect to the VM Hub *now*, indicating that it
is possible and so there may be some mileage in checking say WiFi
drivers (assuming John didn't etc) or testing to see if 'something
else' (like a software firewall or OS glitch) might be holding it
back?

If it didn't connect with Linux (assuming Linux saw the card
correctly) then the chances are it's something that can't be easily
fixed, outside an alternative WiFi card etc (that I would have tried
by now).

Cheers, T i m

[1] But if the OP was able to connect and was only using the netbook
for web browsing and he saw he could still do that easily on Linux, he
might use it. ;-)
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T i m wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

T i m wrote:
I'd be interested to see if that netbook could connect to that router
with Linux. ;-)


Doesn't really get anywhere if the O/P wants XP ...


Not really the goal though Andy [1]. It would be to test to see if the
hardware will *still* connect to the VM Hub


It was confirmed by John's tests that it does connect to the wifi, and
works if DHCP is disabled, therefore it's not a driver issue.
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Andy Burns wrote:

therefore it's not a driver issue.

^^^^^^^^^^^
or hardware
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Jethro_uk wrote:

there's nothing else on the network
that's doing a DHCP job is there ?


wouldn't easily explain why DHCP works on ethernet, but not on WiFi
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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:04:16 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

T i m wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

T i m wrote:
I'd be interested to see if that netbook could connect to that router
with Linux. ;-)

Doesn't really get anywhere if the O/P wants XP ...


Not really the goal though Andy [1]. It would be to test to see if the
hardware will *still* connect to the VM Hub


It was confirmed by John's tests that it does connect to the wifi, and
works if DHCP is disabled, therefore it's not a driver issue.


So, what is the cause of the problem then?

Cheers, T i m



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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:14:22 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

snip

This could be related to the issues addressed in KB953761 (DHCP options
not recognised, when sever includes option 43). However that hotfix does
not seem to have done it initially at least, although I am currently
clarifying an issue on that.


Well troll hunters will be upset.


;-)

I had exactly the same thing when using a Linux newsgroup when
reporting an isssue with overspeed on a wired mouse (FFS). It took
someone offering to come in remotely and try to fix the problem did
all the troll hunters have to eat their words (except being mostly
left brainers they didn't of course). ;-)


Cheers, T i m
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T i m wrote:

So, what is the cause of the problem then?


If John and the O/P have put it to bed, it no longer matters, some DHCP
clash between the VM hub and the ancient XP network stack ...
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On 10/07/2019 02:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/07/2019 21:56, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 19:56, ss wrote:
Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.


Update:

I think I can close this off now. The netbook has been investigated in
depth by remote by J Rumm for over an hour, the situation is still not
resolvedÂ* and looks like winxp is likely the issue. I am confident
that all the contributions by others were covered by John, I say
confident in as much I havent a clue to most of what he was looking at.

Anyhow I do thank you all for your contributionsÂ* and a special thanks
to John for the time taken to investigate it for me.


For those still following along, I will give a quick summary of what we
know now...

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue. WinXP was correctly identifying WPA, and
actually connected without any difficulty.

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi. If I manually assign an IP in the correct subnet, then it works
ok. However that is not a useable solution for the use case required.

The router configuration and DHCP setup is fine (and other wifi devices
have connected and DHCPed ok)

This could be related to the issues addressed in KB953761 (DHCP options
not recognised, when sever includes option 43). However that hotfix does
not seem to have done it initially at least, although I am currently
clarifying an issue on that.




JFI, I dug out an old HP tablet PC (TC4200) last week with a broken
backlight inverter which I have no replaced so I can see the screen.

Its running Vista.

It will connect to my WiFi and I can resolve DNS and ping stuff but it
will not browse using IE. No proxy setup.

Some sites do respond, one said it supports browsers not dinosaurs!.

It is quite possible that so many sites have dropped support for really
old versions of IE so they just don't work any more.


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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:37:29 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

T i m wrote:

So, what is the cause of the problem then?


If John and the O/P have put it to bed, it no longer matters, some DHCP
clash between the VM hub and the ancient XP network stack ...


Not really an answer though is it ... and John hasn't 'put it to bed'
as he's still looking into the Hotfix? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:17:46 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

there's nothing else on the network
that's doing a DHCP job is there ?


wouldn't easily explain why DHCP works on ethernet, but not on WiFi


*Except*, I have seen some devices (repeatedly) take IP addresses from
the top end of the DHCP scope (that caused issues) and others from the
bottom and as these are two different interfaces, there is no
guarantee that there aren't differences between how they work (or
don't). ;-)

Cheers, T i m


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On 10/07/2019 12:24, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:25:44 +0100, T i m wrote:

I had exactly the same thing when using a Linux newsgroup when reporting
an isssue with overspeed on a wired mouse (FFS). It took someone
offering to come in remotely and try to fix the problem did all the
troll hunters have to eat their words (except being mostly left brainers
they didn't of course). ;-)


The Linux community is probably the single biggest thing holding back the
wider adoption of Linux. I have a stack of excruciatingly detailed issues
posted to the correct forum(s) going back years that are gathering dust.

Then there are the issues I have asked for advice on that I've been told
either don't exist, or aren't linux issues. The standout one being a
subtle mouse issue that everyone insisted was a hardware fault despite it
never happening on the same dual boot machine with the same mouse under
Windows. I was mildly amused to get an email in 2017 from a forum posting
in 2009 from someone who *still* had the same issue (which was introduced
between Dapper and Efty) and pretty much the same lack of belief from the
crowd.

Sadly when majority issues demand attemtion from peoples free time, or
development is confined to IBM supported hardware, that is always going
to be te case.

Buit its not a Linux problem per se.

I had a mobo (that eventually died on me) that would take around about a
minute and a half to pass bios tests when a USB webcam was plugged in

Never mind windows or linux, it never got that far.

There were no bios updates beyond that available.

Likewise there are as you say many outstanding issues that take years to
get solved. Why for example is the linux mint 19 MATE console window
persistently transparent in the menu bar and nowhere else?
Its knwon, its reported, but no one has te time to fix what appears to
be a compatibility iussue between libraries and the x window syetm.

Likewise Aisle Riot - the suite of solitaire games - has always shown
screen corruption when a card is moved off te edge of the window and
back. That's 5 years and counting. No one knows who is responsible.


But that is part of the fun. At least you seldom get crashes and
lockups, and the fact it is a minority desktop system means its barely
worth coding a virus for.

I can show you many issues that never got fixed in windows, too.



--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

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On 10/07/2019 12:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:17:46 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

there's nothing else on the network that's doing a DHCP job is there ?


wouldn't easily explain why DHCP works on ethernet, but not on WiFi


Who knows the vagaries of Windows ? Unlike Linux, you can't see the
kludges.

Oh, with enough kit an patince you can

I traced a keystroke through several thousand lines of assembler once in
DOS 2.2

Bloatware even back then



--
€śit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€ť

Vaclav Klaus
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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:24:54 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:25:44 +0100, T i m wrote:

I had exactly the same thing when using a Linux newsgroup when reporting
an isssue with overspeed on a wired mouse (FFS). It took someone
offering to come in remotely and try to fix the problem did all the
troll hunters have to eat their words (except being mostly left brainers
they didn't of course). ;-)


The Linux community is probably the single biggest thing holding back the
wider adoption of Linux.


Agreed, as seen for an ordinary users POV (eg, just looking for a
workable desktop OS solution, free or otherwise).

I have a stack of excruciatingly detailed issues
posted to the correct forum(s) going back years that are gathering dust.


Shame.

Then there are the issues I have asked for advice on that I've been told
either don't exist, or aren't linux issues.


Been there ...

The standout one being a
subtle mouse issue that everyone insisted was a hardware fault despite it
never happening on the same dual boot machine with the same mouse under
Windows.


Similarly, mine was because whilst you could slow the mouse in Linux
using some CLI shenanigans, if failed when you used the KVMA switch to
go between that and XP, W10 or OSX (all those *could* deal with the
mouse speed ok, with or without the switch).

I was mildly amused to get an email in 2017 from a forum posting
in 2009 from someone who *still* had the same issue (which was introduced
between Dapper and Efty) and pretty much the same lack of belief from the
crowd.


Bless em. ;-)

The thing is, if you aren't a full Tux T shirt, Tux bumper sticker,
Linux living and breathing geek, you aren't allowed to even suggest
that Linux is still (very much) 'under development' and because no one
has successfully taken it (and it's community) by the balls (Mark
Shuttleworth tried with Ubuntu and it's family of hardware but
unfortunately failed) and agree a *generic Linux* that all the devs
and hardware manufactures can pins their hats on, it's going to stick
where it is with a 5% desktop market userbase. And this is in *spite*
of all the opportunities the likes of Microsoft have given them over
the years. ;-(

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(

It is getting there though, but could get there so much quicker if
people stopped forking it all over the place. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[1] Ubuntu being an 'alternative to and can run alongside Windows' was
a Canonical marketing strapline. ;-)





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On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 12:51:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

snip

I had a mobo (that eventually died on me) that would take around about a
minute and a half to pass bios tests when a USB webcam was plugged in

Never mind windows or linux, it never got that far.

There were no bios updates beyond that available.


snip

Did you take USB out of the boot sequence (or set it below the HDD)?

Cheers, T i m

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On Wednesday, 10 July 2019 13:03:14 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:24:54 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:25:44 +0100, T i m wrote:

I had exactly the same thing when using a Linux newsgroup when reporting
an isssue with overspeed on a wired mouse (FFS). It took someone
offering to come in remotely and try to fix the problem did all the
troll hunters have to eat their words (except being mostly left brainers
they didn't of course). ;-)


The Linux community is probably the single biggest thing holding back the
wider adoption of Linux.


Agreed, as seen for an ordinary users POV (eg, just looking for a
workable desktop OS solution, free or otherwise).


Wow I actually have to agree with you here.

The problem with some perhaps most linux users is they don't like paying form software so the like of MS and adobe aren't really willing to write or produce high end software for that platfom for free and who can blame them.
But we do use linux here quite a bit, for labs but not for admin work.






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On 10/07/2019 15:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:03:15 +0100, T i m wrote:

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(


I still maintain the killer Linux app would be a drop-in for Outlook.
Mysterious the one application no one in linux land has ever really
bothered with.

There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that could be replaced
with Linux when that never happens ... (they've had 20 years).

apart from email, what does outlook do?


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

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On Wednesday, 10 July 2019 16:54:28 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/07/2019 15:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:03:15 +0100, T i m wrote:

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(


I still maintain the killer Linux app would be a drop-in for Outlook.
Mysterious the one application no one in linux land has ever really
bothered with.

There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that could be replaced
with Linux when that never happens ... (they've had 20 years).

apart from email, what does outlook do?


I think it can sync to calanders so you can send an email with a date
and that will appear in your calander including time.

Perhaps if linux could actually read MS word & excel files without any problems relibely then perhaps corporatations and even universities would go linux mainstream but it's just too crap for such things.



--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin


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On 10/07/2019 15:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:03:15 +0100, T i m wrote:

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(


I still maintain the killer Linux app would be a drop-in for Outlook.
Mysterious the one application no one in linux land has ever really
bothered with.

There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that could be replaced
with Linux when that never happens ... (they've had 20 years).

Evolution is the closest thing to that, and did a fairly good job last
time I tried it https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution
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On 10/07/2019 16:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/07/2019 15:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:03:15 +0100, T i m wrote:

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(


I still maintain the killer Linux app would be a drop-in for Outlook.
Mysterious the one application no one in linux land has ever really
bothered with.


There's a lot of business apps beyond Office that only ever get
developed for Windows- things more specialised.

There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that could be replaced
with Linux when that never happens ... (they've had 20 years).

apart from email, what does outlook do?


Shared calendaring is what it does quite well, so in conjuction with
Exchange you can invite people and book resources (like a meeting room,
or projector, or videoconference equipment) in a few clicks. It handles
that very well, to be fair. It's not an excellent mail client, though
it's connectivity over https and offline working works very well now.
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On 10/07/2019 17:12, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 16:54:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 10/07/2019 15:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:03:15 +0100, T i m wrote:

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(

I still maintain the killer Linux app would be a drop-in for Outlook.
Mysterious the one application no one in linux land has ever really
bothered with.

There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that could be replaced
with Linux when that never happens ... (they've had 20 years).

apart from email, what does outlook do?


It's totally integrated into Exchange so allows seamless calendar
management across large organisations.

Pretty certain Linux can do the exchange-y bits. But there's no desktop
equivalent to Outlook to go with Word/Excel/Powerpoint.

Most corporate desktops are built on
OS+Browser+Outlook+Word+Excel(+Powerpoint). If that could be reliably
moved to a Linux distro, you could move a lot of regular users off
Microsoft.


Libre office is pretty much all there. Doesn't do meetings an calendars
.. Thunderbird does but not sure about interfacing with others


https://www.linuxlinks.com/Open-XchangeServer/

looks pretty close tho


There will always be custom applications etc etc. But the less people use
it, the easier it should be to port to Linux.

It's no use grumbling to *me* about it. It's how things are.

For myself, I'm creaking along with Evolution. But Outlook, it ain't.



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.



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"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 10/07/2019 02:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/07/2019 21:56, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 19:56, ss wrote:
Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.

Update:

I think I can close this off now. The netbook has been investigated in
depth by remote by J Rumm for over an hour, the situation is still not
resolved and looks like winxp is likely the issue. I am confident that
all the contributions by others were covered by John, I say confident in
as much I havent a clue to most of what he was looking at.

Anyhow I do thank you all for your contributions and a special thanks
to John for the time taken to investigate it for me.


For those still following along, I will give a quick summary of what we
know now...

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue. WinXP was correctly identifying WPA, and
actually connected without any difficulty.

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi. If I manually assign an IP in the correct subnet, then it works ok.
However that is not a useable solution for the use case required.

The router configuration and DHCP setup is fine (and other wifi devices
have connected and DHCPed ok)

This could be related to the issues addressed in KB953761 (DHCP options
not recognised, when sever includes option 43). However that hotfix does
not seem to have done it initially at least, although I am currently
clarifying an issue on that.




JFI, I dug out an old HP tablet PC (TC4200) last week with a broken
backlight inverter which I have no replaced so I can see the screen.

Its running Vista.

It will connect to my WiFi and I can resolve DNS and ping stuff but it
will not browse using IE. No proxy setup.

Some sites do respond, one said it supports browsers not dinosaurs!.

It is quite possible that so many sites have dropped support for really
old versions of IE so they just don't work any more.


I used to use IE on Win7 for much of my browsing until I got completely
****ed off with it falling over on starting up. I mainly used it for the
right
click stuff in the vertical scroll bar which allows you to got the top and
bottom of very deep screens like quite a few of the facebook groups
have. Never had it show any problem like he reported so its unlikely
that many sites have given up on IE as you suggest.

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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 10/07/2019 15:10, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:03:15 +0100, T i m wrote:

The thing is, it's going to take 'something special' to sway enough
people away from Windows (or Apple / OSX to a lesser degree) and you
aren't going to do that with something that at best can be a 'poor
alternative' [1] to Windows (/OSX). ;-(


I still maintain the killer Linux app would be a drop-in for Outlook.
Mysterious the one application no one in linux land has ever really
bothered with.

There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that could be replaced
with Linux when that never happens ... (they've had 20 years).

apart from email, what does outlook do?


One of the more capable calendars particularly with synched multi person
event scheduling. Of course there are now cloud calendars that do that too,
just like with email now too. Good api that allows you to add events from
access and excel etc.

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Default More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!

On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:36:42 +1000, Jack98, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


apart from email, what does outlook do?


One of the more capable calendars


Lots of those as stand-alone programs around, senile M$, Google, and Apple
admirer!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:
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Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 05:56:20 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It is quite possible that so many sites have dropped support for really
old versions of IE so they just don't work any more.


I used to use IE on Win7


Guess whether ANYONE cares, senile pest!

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID:
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On 10/07/2019 03:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/07/2019 02:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/07/2019 21:56, ss wrote:
On 08/07/2019 19:56, ss wrote:
Ok will try and ring tomorrow, it did run on the ethernet yesterday.

Update:

I think I can close this off now. The netbook has been investigated
in depth by remote by J Rumm for over an hour, the situation is still
not resolvedÂ* and looks like winxp is likely the issue. I am
confident that all the contributions by others were covered by John,
I say confident in as much I havent a clue to most of what he was
looking at.

Anyhow I do thank you all for your contributionsÂ* and a special
thanks to John for the time taken to investigate it for me.


For those still following along, I will give a quick summary of what
we know now...

So this is not a WEP/WPA issue. WinXP was correctly identifying WPA,
and actually connected without any difficulty.

so why was it issuing a wep error message?

What it does have is a DHCP problem after having authenticated on the
wifi. If I manually assign an IP in the correct subnet, then it works
ok. However that is not a useable solution for the use case required.


router has some special magic for its mac addr?


None that I could see - all MAC related filtering and access control
options are not configured.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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