UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #42   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,766
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

dennis@home laid this down on his screen :
Don't forget that firemen search wardrobes for kids that hid from a fire and
behind doors for adults that didn't remember the keys to open the door.


I leave keys inside both back and front doors.
  #44   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40,893
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...



wrote in message
...
On 05/07/2019 11:58, alan_m wrote:
On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?



AS advertised on Farcebook recently

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=228803037996600

Personally I cannot see too many problems except...

The demo assumes no up-draft from a fire - nor as a result of prevailing
winds hitting the building.


And assumes that the parachute doesnt snag on anything on the way down.
Not keen on being hung up half way down with the flames coming up from
below.

You are parachuted through a cladding fire - I hope all components are
fire proof.

It may work for one individual but for many using similar at the same
time?

Hmmm, that's almost base jumping. It might be OK from a tall building but
not from the 1st floor. If I was young again then kite surfing and base
jumping would be on the "must do" list - I'm not going to be young again
so I'm safe saying that ;-)

Here's a base jump from Angel falls, skip to the action at 50 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tBfSsbmPI


  #45   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 05:48:23 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

And assumes that the parachute doesn¢t snag on anything on the way down.
Not keen on being hung up half way down with the flames coming up from
below.


Aren't you, senile bull**** artist? G

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID:


  #46   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 307
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

That blond lass in Game of Thrones doesn't seem to have much problem with fire except her clothes seem less than fireproof
  #47   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,062
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
dennis@home laid this down on his screen :
Don't forget that firemen search wardrobes for kids that hid from a fire
and behind doors for adults that didn't remember the keys to open the
door.


I leave keys inside both back and front doors.


I keep all my keys (front/back door, car) on a keyring that is always in my
trouser pocket, together with my wallet and mobile phone, with my trousers
close at hand at night. The reason I keep my keys on/near me is mainly so I
don't lose them by absent-mindedly putting them down "somewhere"; the
benefit for emergency situations is a bonus.

Hopefully in an emergency I'd either put my trousers on (if there was time)
or at least grab them, and so have the means to open doors, call the
emergency services, and move my car if that would make it easier for
emergency vehicles (or if it put it out of range of the fire setting the
fuel tank on fire, making a small fire bigger).

At least I wouldn't be faffing around trying to remember where each set of
keys were.




  #48   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,062
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...

Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.


That only works if there is a phone socket near the normal exit route (all
our phone sockets are in a dead-end part of the house). For me, a mobile or
a cordless phone that I can take with me as I flee the building is less
risky.

Main thing: in the panic of an emergency, remember your postcode to direct
the emergency services. And pray for a 999 operator who uses the information
you give them rather than asking for other info that you don't have (*).

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


I would say that it's worth trying to put a fire blanket over a chip-pan
fire, and at the very least turn the gas/electricity off that is heating the
pan. And if it's a trivial fire (the stereotypical fire in a waste-paper bin
or a coal ember that's spat out onto the hearth-rug) at least chuck a bit of
water on it, because if it works, there'll be far less damage than if you
wait for the fire brigade.

But... know when to quit after trying simple low-risk things.


(*) The worst example was when I called 999 on a motorway to report a crash
on the other carriageway, and I gave the "M1 A 123.4" sign but the police
operator kept asking "what's your postcode". Postcode, on a motorway? I
offered to stop to read the info on one of the 100-metre marker posts, but
the operator said she wouldn't know what to do with that information either.
I emailed the police force when I got home because that was a lot of extra
training needed. I had a reply saying they'd located the recording of the
call, and I'd been very clear and concise in my location, but "more staff
training was evidently needed to handle the information I'd given".

  #49   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 11:29:02 +0100, wrote:

I guess it would take 30+ minutes for the fire brigade to get here; no
neighbours near enough to help.


And thinking about it our nearest neighbours, 1/4 mile away, could
take longer than the retained pump to arrive, especially in the wee
small hours of the morning.

This has to work for family and friends, and when we're older - I don't
think "dangle and drop" is an option.


But as a last resort as the door starts to leak too much smoke and
fumes or the same coming up through the floorboards...

Reading the thread, working, linked, smoke/rate of rise/temperature
alarms to give you early warning is probably the best bet. Coupled
withgood buildings and contents insurance.

As the fire and rescue service say "Get out, Stay out, Get us Out".


Yep..


Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.

Thats a bit difficult fir most I'd take the mobile.

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


I managed it once had it out before the brigade got there.

Just broke a small window from outside and had a decent hose pipe to
hand.

It was one that put out a decent large spray for the smoke in the upper
part of the room where gases that do flashover get to.

firemen seemed impressed.

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.


  #50   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...


(*) The worst example was when I called 999 on a motorway to report a crash
on the other carriageway, and I gave the "M1 A 123.4" sign but the police
operator kept asking "what's your postcode". Postcode, on a motorway? I
offered to stop to read the info on one of the 100-metre marker posts, but
the operator said she wouldn't know what to do with that information either.
I emailed the police force when I got home because that was a lot of extra
training needed. I had a reply saying they'd located the recording of the
call, and I'd been very clear and concise in my location, but "more staff
training was evidently needed to handle the information I'd given".


God isn't that stupid i can off my mobile give Lat Long and National
grid to within 3 or 4 metres but some berk wanted the postcode broke
down in the middle of nowhere.

Recovery bloke asked me to describe where i was and he knew where top
come

Modern tech eh, who needs it!.

As to the marker posts i do remember seeing a large map of the M11 with
those on in a breakdown office some time ago now..

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.




  #51   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:13:54 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass

with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.


Thats a bit difficult fir most I'd take the mobile.


Mobile signal is barely good enough to make a voice call here, even
outside. My mobile automatically diverts to a VOIP number with the
'net connnection for that routed over the copper landline. The
VOIP/DECT base, ADSL modem and ethernet switch are all on a UPS...
Failing that the good 'ole powered from the exchange batteries POTS
will work.

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


Just broke a small window from outside and had a decent hose pipe to
hand.


Fighting through a small hole from the relatively fresh air outside
is not the same as being in a room with even a small fire.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #52   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 22:26:17 +0100, NY wrote:

Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass

with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.


That only works if there is a phone socket near the normal exit route
(all our phone sockets are in a dead-end part of the house).


So fit one in a better place. B-)

For me, a mobile or a cordless phone that I can take with me as I flee
the building is less risky.

Main thing: in the panic of an emergency, remember your postcode to
direct the emergency services. And pray for a 999 operator who uses the
information you give them rather than asking for other info that you
don't have (*).


Advantage of a landline (or VOIP number) is that you can register
your address and that pops up on the 999 operators screen. When the
call is passed to the requested service they get that and may also
have a scheme linked to the number/address where you can say how to
find that address. We have that additional information registered
with the North West Ambulance Service, not sure if it's shared with
Cumbria Fire and Rescue(*). Most sat navs plonk you in the middle of
a field 1/2 a mile away when fed our postcode...

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


I would say that it's worth trying to put a fire blanket over a chip-pan
fire, ...


Or a *damp* tea towel.

... and at the very least turn the gas/electricity off that is heating
the pan.


That's always assuming you can get that close. TBH I don't how big
the flames can get from a chip pan with a good source of heat going
into it can get. I've only seen the small gentle flame just after
flash over in the Public Infomation Films before the fire
blanket/damp tea towel is deployed or just before the dramtic
demonstration of adding water... Left on a highish heat for a minute
or two after flash over I can imagine it will be getting a bit more
hostile.

And if it's a trivial fire (the stereotypical fire in a waste-paper bin
or a coal ember that's spat out onto the hearth-rug) at least chuck a
bit of water on it, because if it works, there'll be far less damage
than if you wait for the fire brigade.


I wonder what causes most domestic fires these days, given that open
coal fires aren't very common these days. B-) Smoking is probably
still up there with electrical?

But... know when to quit after trying simple low-risk things.


Oh yes, discretion is the better part of valour.

(*) But as the first pump to be called to us would be the local
retained one, the chances are the crew will know where we are anyway.
Indeed some of the crew will have to drive past us to get the pump...
The same could be said for the local ambulance as well which is one
of, if not the only, "retained" ambulance in the country. Ambulance
or fire crews coming in wouldn't have that local knowledge so having
it registered with them can only be a good thing.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #53   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...



"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 11:29:02 +0100, wrote:

I guess it would take 30+ minutes for the fire brigade to get here; no
neighbours near enough to help.


And thinking about it our nearest neighbours, 1/4 mile away, could
take longer than the retained pump to arrive, especially in the wee
small hours of the morning.

This has to work for family and friends, and when we're older - I don't
think "dangle and drop" is an option.


But as a last resort as the door starts to leak too much smoke and
fumes or the same coming up through the floorboards...

Reading the thread, working, linked, smoke/rate of rise/temperature
alarms to give you early warning is probably the best bet. Coupled
withgood buildings and contents insurance.

As the fire and rescue service say "Get out, Stay out, Get us Out".

Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


Don't agree with that last with a fat fire in the kitchen
or when you **** up some diy or when an appliance
catches fire with you reasonably close to it. Plenty of
small fires like that are very easy to deal with and doing
that produces a hell of a lot less damage to deal with.

Corse you do need to have enough of a clue to know
what can be dealt with and what is better not to try.

  #54   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40,893
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...



"NY" wrote in message
...
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
dennis@home laid this down on his screen :
Don't forget that firemen search wardrobes for kids that hid from a fire
and behind doors for adults that didn't remember the keys to open the
door.


I leave keys inside both back and front doors.


I keep all my keys (front/back door, car) on a keyring that is always in
my trouser pocket, together with my wallet and mobile phone,


Wouldn't work for me, I have a snooze almost every day and it would
be a damned nuisance to have to take my jeans off every time I do that.

with my trousers close at hand at night. The reason I keep my keys on/near
me is mainly so I don't lose them by absent-mindedly putting them down
"somewhere";


I fix that problem by always putting the keys and wallet
in the same place every time, in a pile of bins intended
for sheets of paper which sits beside the main chair that
I spend most of the day in when not actually doing
something around the house or yard.

the benefit for emergency situations is a bonus.


All my 13 patio doors, don't need a key to get out thru. 5 in the
main room one in each bedroom and 2 in the main bedroom
and what you lot call a bungalow with not even any steps outside.

Hopefully in an emergency I'd either put my trousers on (if there was
time) or at least grab them, and so have the means to open doors, call the
emergency services, and move my car if that would make it easier for
emergency vehicles (or if it put it out of range of the fire setting the
fuel tank on fire, making a small fire bigger).


My next door neighbour, when the house on the other side of his to mine,
was deliberately torched by a rabid loony in the middle of the might,
went out in his undies when the house went up with one hell of a bang
because the loony had poured lots of petrol around inside the house
and then tossed in something she had lit, a rag or something.

At least I wouldn't be faffing around trying to remember where each set of
keys were.


I just have the one bunch of keys and don't
need any key to get out of the house.


  #55   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,938
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

In message , tony sayer
writes

(*) The worst example was when I called 999 on a motorway to report a crash
on the other carriageway, and I gave the "M1 A 123.4" sign but the police
operator kept asking "what's your postcode". Postcode, on a motorway? I
offered to stop to read the info on one of the 100-metre marker posts, but
the operator said she wouldn't know what to do with that information either.
I emailed the police force when I got home because that was a lot of extra
training needed. I had a reply saying they'd located the recording of the
call, and I'd been very clear and concise in my location, but "more staff
training was evidently needed to handle the information I'd given".


God isn't that stupid i can off my mobile give Lat Long and National
grid to within 3 or 4 metres but some berk wanted the postcode broke
down in the middle of nowhere.

Recovery bloke asked me to describe where i was and he knew where top
come

Modern tech eh, who needs it!.

As to the marker posts i do remember seeing a large map of the M11 with
those on in a breakdown office some time ago now..


Local Police meet suggested this for *away from farm* users.

What three words?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNA4...ature=youtu.be

Watch the wrap. My phone is not that clever!



--
Tim Lamb


  #56   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:26:55 +1000, Levi Jones, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


Don't even think about fighting the fire.


Don't agree with


Oh, that's a novelty! Whoda guessed it, you auto-contradicting senile
asshole! LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:
  #57   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,560
Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:52:32 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I keep all my keys (front/back door, car) on a keyring that is always in
my trouser pocket, together with my wallet and mobile phone,


Wouldn't work for me,


Nobody asked you anything, senile asshole! Oh, I just saw: nobody gave you a
feedback in this thread, so far! Seems to become the rule for you, eh,
senile Rodent? LOL

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:
  #58   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:26:55 +1000, Levi Jones wrote:

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


Don't agree with that last with a fat fire in the kitchen or when you
**** up some diy or when an appliance catches fire with you reasonably
close to it. Plenty of small fires like that are very easy to deal with
and doing that produces a hell of a lot less damage to deal with.


True enough. I was thinking more of the scenario were the smoke
alarms wake you up in the wee small hours. The fire by that time is
very likely to be too far advanced to be succesfully fought by some
one in their PJs and no BA set.

Corse you do need to have enough of a clue to know what can be dealt
with and what is better not to try.


Aye.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #59   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 10:17:02 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

Battery operated automatic emergency lights in case of power failure
leaving you in the dark


Might not be overly effective if fitted to ceilings with thick smoke
building up at that level.

Useful for power failures without a fire though. I've one in the
boiler room where the main CU is and one above one of sets of stairs.
TBH the latter, though useful, is not really in a good location as
far as being able to see to move about is concerned.

--
Cheers
Dave.



  #60   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,766
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

tony sayer explained on 05/07/2019 :
God isn't that stupid i can off my mobile give Lat Long and National
grid to within 3 or 4 metres but some berk wanted the postcode broke
down in the middle of nowhere.


I stopped for a coffee down a lane, in a lay-bye - a guy in van was
acting very strangely, out wondering round the road, shouting as if
either very drunk or very ill, so I did a 999. I had no idea of the
postcode, or name of the lane, but I could give the lat/long from my
satnav, which they were not able to make use of. Luckily a local came
along, whom I was able to stop and ask where I was and to give help to
control the guy, until the emergency services arrived.


  #61   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,062
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
... and at the very least turn the gas/electricity off that is heating
the pan.


That's always assuming you can get that close. TBH I don't how big
the flames can get from a chip pan with a good source of heat going
into it can get. I've only seen the small gentle flame just after
flash over in the Public Infomation Films before the fire
blanket/damp tea towel is deployed or just before the dramtic
demonstration of adding water... Left on a highish heat for a minute
or two after flash over I can imagine it will be getting a bit more
hostile.


I was thinking more of closing the shut-off valve at the gas meter - which
is outside the front door which would be one of the escape routes, though
admittedly the back door is probably closer - and that's got the main "fuse
box" just inside the doorway. I might still try going round the outside of
the house to the gas meter to turn it off.

On the other hand, if there was a smell of unburnt gas in the house when I
woke up, I'd leg it to the bottom of the garden and call from the I've
seen what a gas explosion can do to a house, when one exploded on the
outskirts of York a few years ago :-( The main thing to remember if you
smell gas is to resist the urge to turn on a light to help you find your way
out. Apparently fire alarms in buildings were often not sounded in the case
of a gas leak, for fear of igniting the gas - some other means has to be
found of telling everyone to evacuate the building. That may have change
with modern Yodalarm fire alarms which are probably fire-safe and don't use
a vibrating arm to strike a bell, which creates a spark every time the bell
arm breaks the contact.

  #62   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:26:55 +1000, Levi Jones wrote:

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


Don't agree with that last with a fat fire in the kitchen or when you
**** up some diy or when an appliance catches fire with you reasonably
close to it. Plenty of small fires like that are very easy to deal with
and doing that produces a hell of a lot less damage to deal with.


True enough. I was thinking more of the scenario were the smoke
alarms wake you up in the wee small hours. The fire by that time is
very likely to be too far advanced to be succesfully fought by some
one in their PJs and no BA set.

Corse you do need to have enough of a clue to know what can be dealt
with and what is better not to try.


Aye.


Most unusual fat fire I started to tackle was in a pub kitchen where the
thermostats* on a small counter top deep fryer failed in the on position.
, so we isolated it from the consumer unit and then smothered with a
blanket while others cleared the customers and called the fire
brigade.Despite the blanket flames still crept ominously around the edges
threatening to set fire to surrounding items. As the beers cellar was next
door to the kitchen we were able to take the spare Co2 cylinders and by
just cracking the valve were able to waft Co2 over which killed them.
A water extinguisher would obviously be a no no and a normal Co2
extinguisher if one had been available isnt a good idea as the blast can
be too powerful and blow the burning the fat out.


Brigade arrived about 12 mins later , assessed the situation and added
another larger fire blanket.
Then a fireman wearing protective clothing and built like a brick ****
house picked up the fryer and carried it out the door of the kitchen that
lead to the pub garden and placed it on the ground.

Once he was clear two of his Colleagues hit it full whack with a normal
fire hose which distributed the burning oil with the expected fire ball
result, the flames soon subsided though due to the cooling effect and the
only casualties were some Dahlias.

Someone asked the Fireman about using the water and got the answer €œWe
know what we are a doing,
dont do it inside and dont even think about doing it at home.

* I assuming it had two like a good one should but never got around to
finding out,perhaps that only applies to the larger fixed in ones.


GH



  #63   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,037
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On 05/07/2019 17:11, NY wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

I've been on company fire training courses. Interestingly they were
suspended for a while when one of my colleagues set off a CO2
extinguisher that turned out to have a leak from the pipe that joined
the horn and he suffered a cold-burn.


I remember being told that we mustn't touch the horn itself, only the
handle that's attached to it, because of the risk of cold burns.

The most memorable thing I remember was the demonstration of why you
shouldn't pour water on a burning-liquid (petrol or chip pan) fire. The
demonstrator set up two wide, shallow trays. One was filled with petrol,
the other with diesel. The petrol ignited as soon as a flame (on a long
pole!) was brought near the vapour. The diesel could not be ignited, and
put out the flame if it was touched onto the surface.

When the petrol fire was burning away nicely, the demonstrator poured a
few millilitres of water (again, on a long pole) onto the fire and the
whole thing exploded and shot burning petrol over a wide area. He then
tried with a CO2 extinguisher - that blew the petrol out of the tray
onto the grass, but the tray remained alight because the hot combustion
gases heated the CO2 so it didn't lay as a blanket over the fuel. Foam
or dry powder for liquid fuel fires, IIRC.

I've never had to use the approved method of holding a fire blanket, but
I can still remember it: hold the blanket so the top edge faces towards
you, curled round so it's covering your fists which are facing palm
towards you, and lay the blanket gently *from front to back* (never the
other way round) over the chip pan until it covers the pan, when the
flames will very quickly go out because the fire is starved of oxygen.
Leave the pan where it is until the fire brigade arrive: don't move it
*even after the flames have gone out*. Obviously don't try to move it
while it's on fire.

I did a few company fire courses too, with similar demos. Sometime in my
past (no idea when or where) I saw a demo of what not to do with a hot
oil fire - a spectacular demo that sticks in the memory quite well.
I once set-off a CO2 extinguisher as a test in a small electronics lab -
the temperature change was surprising but shortly afterwards I had to
rush out because of a feeling of lack of oxygen - obvious really, but I
hadn't thought of that effect beforehand.
  #64   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39,563
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On 06/07/2019 01:32, Dave Liquorice wrote:
I wonder what causes most domestic fires these days, given that open
coal fires aren't very common these days. B-) Smoking is probably
still up there with electrical?

Candles.

IIRC they are greter killers than fag ends


--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat
  #65   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,085
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On 6 Jul 2019 11:29:27 GMT, Marland wrote:

Most unusual fat fire I started to tackle was in a pub kitchen where
the thermostats* on a small counter top deep fryer failed in the on
position. , so we isolated it from the consumer unit and then smothered
with a blanket while others cleared the customers and called the fire
brigade. Despite the blanket flames still crept ominously around the
edges threatening to set fire to surrounding items.


Hotel or pub, was waiting for breakfast, heard commotion from
kitchen, wandered in to see a grill pan and burning sausages, grabbed
a tea towel bunged it under the cold tap, wrang it out *well*, took
hold of corners, twisted wrists and fore arms inwards so damp tea
towel was between the flames and me and laid it gently over. Bit of
hissing and whispy smoke, advised rather paniced kitchen staff to
just leave it for 30 minutes to cool down before touching it again
and returned to wait for my breakfast.

Did I get a free breakfast or night? Did I F...

--
Cheers
Dave.





  #66   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,062
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

"Marland" wrote in message
...

Someone asked the Fireman about using the water and got the answer €œWe
know what we are a doing,
dont do it inside and dont even think about doing it at home.


I'm surprised they used water on a fat fire, even in the open air. I wonder
why they didn't use foam, as they do for other burning-fuel fires. Maybe
they decided they'd got it far away from anything flammable (*) - apart from
dahlias! - and wanted to entertain the pub punters ;-)

I thought the usual method with chip pan fires was to put a large board on
top of the fire blanket to hold it in close contact with the pan so no air
can get in, causing the fire to go out very quickly.

Good bit of lateral thinking using one of the CO2 cylinders that was used
for the beer.


(*) "Flammable", *never* "inflammable". The latter was condemned because
people interpreted the "in" as meaning not - ie "not flammable" instead of
"capable of being inflamed".

  #67   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 12:01:53 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

tony sayer explained on 05/07/2019 :
God isn't that stupid i can off my mobile give Lat Long and National
grid to within 3 or 4 metres but some berk wanted the postcode broke
down in the middle of nowhere.


I stopped for a coffee down a lane, in a lay-bye - a guy in van was
acting very strangely, out wondering round the road, shouting as if
either very drunk or very ill, so I did a 999. I had no idea of the
postcode, or name of the lane, but I could give the lat/long from my
satnav, which they were not able to make use of. Luckily a local came
along, whom I was able to stop and ask where I was and to give help to
control the guy, until the emergency services arrived.


I'm rather confused that the Emergency Services didn't know where you
were anyway. The last time I rang the Fire Brigade (to report a fire in
barn in a rural area) the FB operator knew precisely where I was (You've
just got to the end of the layby haven't you sir) with me only knowing I
was on the A??



--
Ermin
  #68   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

NY wrote:
"Marland" wrote in message
...

Someone asked the Fireman about using the water and got the answer €œWe
know what we are a doing,
dont do it inside and dont even think about doing it at home.


I'm surprised they used water on a fat fire, even in the open air. I wonder
why they didn't use foam, as they do for other burning-fuel fires. Maybe
they decided they'd got it far away from anything flammable (*) - apart from
dahlias! - and wanted to entertain the pub punters ;-)


Could well have been an element of the latter,some the retained fire crew
were sometimes customers and others were at time work colleagues,
ironically the son of one them usually worked there as a barman but wasnt
on duty that night.
Both were actual fire engine enthusiasts and owned a small Landrover based
appliance obtained from some industrial site.

They frequently attended shows where such machinery is exhibited and the
son jumped at the chance to drive an appliance that was sometimes used as a
prop in that TV series Londons Burning.
The idea was that a bonfire of pallets etc was lit and they would race up
and put it out in front of an audience,
Unfortunately the lad didnt allow for a previous light shower had made the
grass field a bit slippery compared to tarmac and a full size fire engine
with laden water tanks is reasonably heavy, instead of stopping close to
the fire they ploughed into it much to the amusement of the crowd, the
embarrassment of the lad and the wrath of the machines owner. Needed a few
repairs to the headlights etc.

GH

  #69   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,024
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 01:32:53 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 22:26:17 +0100, NY wrote:

Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass

with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.


That only works if there is a phone socket near the normal exit route
(all our phone sockets are in a dead-end part of the house).


So fit one in a better place. B-)

For me, a mobile or a cordless phone that I can take with me as I flee
the building is less risky.


Problem with a cordless is that if the RCD trips (which it will as the
fire develops) the phone becomes useless.

Mobiles give location with varying degrees of accuracy. The basic
service sends the location of the mast being used via a simultaneous
Emergency SMS. This, in remote areas, can encompass a significant
area and in many rural locations is fairly useless. In urban areas
the basic information is quickly enhanced by mast triangulation as the
call is established. Advanced Mobile Location (AML), if available on
your phone operating system, uses GPS and WiFi location data to refine
location more precisely so works well in rural areas. (It works on
Android, not sure about others). Needless to say most emergency
services use different incompatible systems to handle calls. Some use
a data exchange system called EISEC ( Enhanced Information Service for
Emergency Calls) others voice.

As call centres and control rooms are centralised the ability of the
emergency call handler to use local knowledge is lost.

The fixed line phone (not VOIP) on a wire requires no power and the
emergency call handler knows your precise address immediately. You
don't need to register anything. Simple is sometimes much better.

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


I would say that it's worth trying to put a fire blanket over a chip-pan
fire, ...


Or a *damp* tea towel.

... and at the very least turn the gas/electricity off that is heating
the pan.


That's always assuming you can get that close. TBH I don't how big
the flames can get from a chip pan with a good source of heat going
into it can get.


Chip pans ignite when the fat gets hot enough to start to boil, or
more usually for debris in the fat to start ingrained moisture boiling
and exploding as the steam expands. This sprays boiling fat onto
anyone nearby (so turning the heat off often isn't an option even if
you are there) and splashes more oil onto the hob which instantly
ignites it. Electric hobs and ceramic are worse by far for this. The
result is an immediate ferocious column of flame reaching up to any
hob extractor fan and around it to the ceiling within a second. If
you keep calm (Much easier said than done) the fire at this stage
although visually very impressive is fairly easy to extinguish with a
fire blanket or damp towel placed over both the pan and surrounding
burning fat. An Aqueous Film Forming Foam (AFFF) extinguisher
directed onto the wall behind the pan so it drops down into it rather
than risk splashing fat around by directing it into the pan will also
put it out and keep it out.

CO2 and dry powder may knock the fire back but it will flash back as
soon as they stop.

HOWEVER - all these require knowledge and experience. Even something
as simple as using a fire blanket already in the kitchen requires
considerable courage if you have a roaring flame in front of you and
have not had plenty of practice beforehand.

Whatever happens do not try to move the pan. Often people try this,
walk forward, the flames blow back in their face and their hands are
burning so they drop the pan in the hall spreading burning oil over
the centre of the house and their legs. Demonstration of the folly of
moving a burning pan (using a fireman in full aircraft crash rescue
suit and full face/head helmet is very impressive and not something
the audience ever forgets.

And if it's a trivial fire (the stereotypical fire in a waste-paper bin
or a coal ember that's spat out onto the hearth-rug) at least chuck a
bit of water on it, because if it works, there'll be far less damage
than if you wait for the fire brigade.


Domestic fires cover a range from the trivial (smoldering waste basket
you can chuck out of the door to the lethal - established
conflagration in living room). The affected population ranges from
infants through fit and active adults to the disabled and poorly
mobile.

The "get out-keep out" advice is the best immediate action for
preserving life but not necessarily property. Once out assess the
situation and only if you are very confident you can deal with it use
first aid fire appliances to contain or extinguish the fire.

I wonder what causes most domestic fires these days, given that open
coal fires aren't very common these days. B-) Smoking is probably
still up there with electrical?


In order of recorded numbers of fires over the last 5 years :-

Chip pans

Unattended free standing electric heaters

Smoking (especially in bedrooms) (used to be in the lounge before
furniture flammability limits introduced) (Smoking is still the
leading cause of death in domestic fires - drunk, having a fag in bed,
falling asleep, never waking up)

Candles

Children

Electrical faults ( I would be cautious about this figure as
"electrical fault" is often given as the cause when none can be
established, firemen know all to well that insurance companies can
cause victims of a fire much grief if no cause can be established.)

Barbecues (especially in garages or under raised garage doors)


But... know when to quit after trying simple low-risk things.


Oh yes, discretion is the better part of valour.

(*) But as the first pump to be called to us would be the local
retained one, the chances are the crew will know where we are anyway.
Indeed some of the crew will have to drive past us to get the pump...
The same could be said for the local ambulance as well which is one
of, if not the only, "retained" ambulance in the country. Ambulance
or fire crews coming in wouldn't have that local knowledge so having
it registered with them can only be a good thing.

  #70   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...


Mobiles give location with varying degrees of accuracy. The basic
service sends the location of the mast being used via a simultaneous
Emergency SMS. This, in remote areas, can encompass a significant
area and in many rural locations is fairly useless. In urban areas
the basic information is quickly enhanced by mast triangulation as the
call is established. Advanced Mobile Location (AML), if available on
your phone operating system, uses GPS and WiFi location data to refine
location more precisely so works well in rural areas. (It works on
Android, not sure about others). Needless to say most emergency
services use different incompatible systems to handle calls. Some use
a data exchange system called EISEC ( Enhanced Information Service for
Emergency Calls) others voice.


Surely most all phones now use GPS and not triangulation ?...

snipped
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.




  #71   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,896
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice scribeth thus
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:13:54 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Corded landline on your route out that you can grab as you pass

with
enough cable to be used from outside is a good idea.


Thats a bit difficult fir most I'd take the mobile.


Mobile signal is barely good enough to make a voice call here, even
outside.


Isn't it about time Dave you protested outside parlymental re his said
matter?..

Or had a go at Ofcom, its been years now!..


My mobile automatically diverts to a VOIP number with the
'net connnection for that routed over the copper landline. The
VOIP/DECT base, ADSL modem and ethernet switch are all on a UPS...
Failing that the good 'ole powered from the exchange batteries POTS
will work.

Don't even think about fighting the fire.


Just broke a small window from outside and had a decent hose pipe to
hand.


Fighting through a small hole from the relatively fresh air outside
is not the same as being in a room with even a small fire.

Course not but in that instance it could be done!..
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.


  #72   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,681
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On 06/07/2019 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:

Local Police meet suggested this for *away from farm* users.

What three words?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNA4...ature=youtu.be

Watch the wrap. My phone is not that clever!



Emergency services adopt a commercial, closed system and promote it to
the point where it is the de facto monopoly. Anyone thinking of
competing faces high costs of entry. Clearly nothing could go wrong.
After all, no company wouldn't dream of exploiting its position to ramp
up the price for the emergency services and other bulk users, would it?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #73   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,024
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 17:18:03 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:


Mobiles give location with varying degrees of accuracy. The basic
service sends the location of the mast being used via a simultaneous
Emergency SMS. This, in remote areas, can encompass a significant
area and in many rural locations is fairly useless. In urban areas
the basic information is quickly enhanced by mast triangulation as the
call is established. Advanced Mobile Location (AML), if available on
your phone operating system, uses GPS and WiFi location data to refine
location more precisely so works well in rural areas. (It works on
Android, not sure about others). Needless to say most emergency
services use different incompatible systems to handle calls. Some use
a data exchange system called EISEC ( Enhanced Information Service for
Emergency Calls) others voice.


Surely most all phones now use GPS and not triangulation ?...


Most certainly do but by no means all, really dumb phones are becoming
more popular. Also when relying upon any wireless device it is worth
remembering Marconi's first law of communication - "The ability to
communicate successfully using any wireless system is inversely
proportional to the need to do so"
  #74   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,766
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

Ermin explained :
I'm rather confused that the Emergency Services didn't know where you
were anyway.


It was a while ago, early days of digital mobile phones. Maybe they
were not set up to trace mobile location back then.
  #75   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,766
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

Dave Liquorice formulated on Saturday :
Advantage of a landline (or VOIP number) is that you can register
your address and that pops up on the 999 operators screen.


How does one register one's address?


  #76   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,829
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Advantage of a landline (or VOIP number) is that you can register
your address and that pops up on the 999 operators screen.


How does one register one's address?


Your voip provider should (must?) provide a method, often called your
E999 address
  #77   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40,893
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...



"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Mobiles give location with varying degrees of accuracy. The basic
service sends the location of the mast being used via a simultaneous
Emergency SMS. This, in remote areas, can encompass a significant
area and in many rural locations is fairly useless. In urban areas
the basic information is quickly enhanced by mast triangulation as the
call is established. Advanced Mobile Location (AML), if available on
your phone operating system, uses GPS and WiFi location data to refine
location more precisely so works well in rural areas. (It works on
Android, not sure about others). Needless to say most emergency
services use different incompatible systems to handle calls. Some use
a data exchange system called EISEC ( Enhanced Information Service for
Emergency Calls) others voice.


Surely most all phones now use GPS and not triangulation ?...


But some chose to turn the GPS off to get more time between charges.

  #78   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,766
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

Andy Burns has brought this to us :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Advantage of a landline (or VOIP number) is that you can register
your address and that pops up on the 999 operators screen.


How does one register one's address?


Your voip provider should (must?) provide a method, often called your E999
address


I have a normal landline number, rather than voip.
  #79   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39,563
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

On 06/07/2019 21:03, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns has brought this to us :
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Advantage of a landline (or VOIP number) is that you can register
your address and that pops up on the 999 operators screen.

How does one register one's address?


Your voip provider should (must?) provide a method, often called your
E999 address


I have a normal landline number, rather than voip.

I have a normal landline number that is in fact voip registered to this
address


--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€

€• Jean Claud Jüncker
  #80   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,829
Default Fire escape ladders/ropes/descenders/ ...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Your voip provider should (must?) provide a method, often called your
E999 address


I have a normal landline number, rather than voip.


then BT (or whoever) already know the address of the line.
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fire escape questions R D S[_2_] UK diy 8 January 13th 19 10:56 AM
Fire Escape Route John UK diy 13 April 26th 10 09:56 PM
Fire Escape Rusting abd08 UK diy 25 May 11th 06 12:12 AM
For info - building regs on loo/kitchen/fire escape routes lyn rivers UK diy 1 January 27th 05 05:18 PM
Steel Staircase / Fire Escape Pecanfan UK diy 7 September 7th 04 08:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"