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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#81
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 11/7/19 7:09 pm, Daniel60 wrote:
Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM: On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15 volts, but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell. On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts. That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range. Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary from one manufacturer to another?? It varies. Anything up to 600 volts DC seems to be the norm at present. BEVs have a regulator to drop those very high voltages down to whatever voltage the ancillaries require - between 12V and 48V typically. -- Xeno Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing. (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson) |
#82
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 14:47:33 +0100, Xeno wrote:
On 11/7/19 5:11 am, Commander Kinsey wrote: Well I see the full voltage charging a flat battery at idle. Obviously they could be designed to be capable of this and it would be very useful to charge the battery quickly when doing stop start town driving, or driving at minimum revs in top gear in a town. You may see a high voltage but you will not see a high current at idle. The alternator is not *capable* of high current at idle. A flat battery at a high voltage means there's a high current. And will you please stop mixing up top and bottom posting. I top posted because I was replying to a blind user who had done the same. On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:07:14 +0100, Xeno wrote: On 23/6/19 5:47 am, Commander Kinsey wrote: Modern car alternators seem to be able to give out a huge amount of current at engine idle speed. I'm sure my friend got his to give out pretty much the full 80 amps without revving the engine. He was powering a small disco on a campsite :-) No way to get a full 80 amps out of an alternator *at idle*. On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:00:34 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15 volts, but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and these days, I'm sure the direction of current flow and voltages are monitored very well by the computers. In the old days it was a bit of a black art just relying on the ability of the alternator or dynamo in the old bangers. Normally the output will change due to engine speed, but in alternators there is a voltage regulator inbuilt to keep the thing pretty nominal and of course the thing that then suffers is the charging rate, ie its going to be be slower when its not running very fast. I think if a battery dips below about 11v outside of starter transients, you have to charge it or get a new one. This very accurate sensing these days can often mask a battery on its last legs though, as people tend to ignore warnings if the car still works, then they leave it a couple of days and it won't start! Brian |
#83
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Troll-feeding Senile Australian ASSHOLE Alert
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:47:33 +1000, Xeno, another brainless, troll-feeding,
senile Australian idiot, blathered: You may see a high voltage but you will not see a high current at idle. The alternator is not *capable* of high current at idle. What we see is you AUSTRALIAN senile ASSHOLE taking every single bait the Scottish ****** sets out for you! Just HOW senile are you, idiot? |
#84
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?
"Daniel60" wrote in message ... Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM: On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15 volts, but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell. On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts. That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range. Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Nope. Or does it vary from one manufacturer to another?? And from one model to another too. |
#85
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 11/07/2019 14:47, Xeno wrote:
On 11/7/19 5:11 am, Commander Kinsey wrote: Well I see the full voltage charging a flat battery at idle. Obviously they could be designed to be capable of this and it would be very useful to charge the battery quickly when doing stop start town driving, or driving at minimum revs in top gear in a town. You may see a high voltage but you will not see a high current at idle. The alternator is not *capable* of high current at idle. You would be surprised. Howver 80A at 12v is only a brake horsepower and a bit.. On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:07:14 +0100, Xeno wrote: On 23/6/19 5:47 am, Commander Kinsey wrote: Modern car alternators seem to be able to give out a huge amount of current at engine idle speed.Â* I'm sure my friend got his to give out pretty much the full 80 amps without revving the engine.Â* He was powering a small disco on a campsite :-) No way to get a full 80 amps out of an alternator *at idle*. That however is probably true for most car alternators -- Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are poor. Peter Thompson |
#86
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM:
Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM: On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15 volts, but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell. On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts. That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range. Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary from one manufacturer to another?? Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P -- Daniel |
#87
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 12/07/2019 07:56, Daniel60 wrote:
Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM: Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary from one manufacturer to another?? Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P More volts requires more cells. Better to standardise on the size of a cell, set a maximum operating current and alter the number of cells according to cost/power requirements. |
#88
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:59:55 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:
"Xeno" wrote in message ... On 23/6/19 1:30 am, Rod Speed wrote: "Xeno" wrote in message ... On 22/6/19 7:58 pm, Rod Speed wrote: "Xeno" wrote in message ... On 22/6/19 9:57 am, Rod Speed wrote: "Commander Kinsey" wrote in message news On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:57:52 +0100, Rod Speed wrote: "Commander Kinsey" wrote in message news On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:57:44 +0100, Max Demian wrote: On 21/06/2019 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote: How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to switch to trickle charge? I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is in a running car? The voltage perhaps. Why would the voltage change? That's the way batterys work, the battery voltage does change as its charged. That's determined by the alternator or charger. Nope. Yip. Nope. I can put any voltage I like across a battery's terminals. Nope. The battery then chooses how much current is drawn. And that current changes depending on the how charged the battery is. Let's say the charger/alternator gives out 14.4V initially, to charge the battery quickly. It'll just sit at 14.4V forever, providing the charger can give out enough current to charge the slightly flat battery and power any connected loads. Its more complicated than that with the current going to the battery and the battery is charged. If the battery had no loads connected, it would take a lot less current when it became full, but the voltage would stay the same. No it doesn't even with a very crude battery charger. For example, I'm currently keeping my car's battery topped up with a bench supply overnight. It's set to 13.8V, with a current limiter only to prevent overloading the supply. It actually specify the current being supplied. The voltage stays at 13.8V all the time, sometimes 100mA is drawn, sometimes up to 4A. The only way I or the supply can tell the battery is full, is by the current dropping to 100mA. But it's actually always full, as when 4A is drawn, that's going to a load. What load ? There no load with a battery being charged with a bench supply. Correction Nope. the *battery* is the *load*. Not when the battery is fully charged and is being charged with a bench supply that is delivering 4A to the battery. Take the case of an alternator charging a battery at ~4 amps. That isnt what was being discussed there. What was being discussed there was charging the battery out of the car with a bench supply. The battery is the load and it also provides, as part of that function, the reference *voltage* that the alternator *must have* in order to control the output. None of that is relevant to what was being discussed there, charging the battery out of the car with a bench supply. In the process of being charged it is using electric current. That makes it the load. See above. What happens to the charger when you disconnect the power with the battery connected? With a BENCH SUPPLY, it continues to provide the same voltage as it did with the battery connected. It should, if designed correctly, shut down since it no longer sees a load. Otherwise it may destroy itself. That is just plain wrong with a BENCH SUPPLY. None of those destroy themselves with no load. Even when it is fully charged it will still take a trickle charge 4A isnt a trickle charge. That depends entirely on the amp hour rating of the battery. We're discussing a normal car battery in a steaming turd with wheels frog car. Also, my bench charger We arent discussing a bench charger, we are discussing a bench SUPPLY. will start off at 4 amps, its maximum capacity. As the battery becomes charged, that current will drop down to *1 amp* and, from that point, it will maintain a *trickle charge*. So that is nothing like the situation being discussed with a BENCH SUPPLY which is still delivering 4A to a battery that has been removed from the car. From Wikipedia; For lead-acid batteries under no load float charging (such as in SLI batteries), trickle charging happens naturally at the end-of-charge, when the lead-acid battery internal resistance to the charging current increases enough to reduce additional charging current to a trickle, hence the name. In such cases, the trickle charging equals the energy expended by the lead-acid battery splitting the water in the electrolyte into hydrogen and oxygen gases Irrelevant to what is being discussed, 4A isnt a trickle charge. The car alternator regulator is no different. We arent discussing that there. It sees the battery as a load, determines the voltage reference and pumps up its output. When the regulator sees the battery voltage at the peak setpoint, it too will drop the current to a trickle. If you add a load, say by turning headlights on, that is in *parallel* to the battery and it will drop the system voltage down a tad. The regulator will see that and pump up the output current appropriately. The current will apportion itself to the *two* loads as appropriate to their individual internal resistances. All irrelevant to charging a battery out of the car with a BENCH SUPPLY. Here, educate yourself; https://www.swtc.edu/ag_power/electr...l_circuits.htm I knew all that before you were even born, thanks. so it is still a load even when fully charged. Not when its still taking 4A, If the battery is *taking* 4 amps, then it *is definitely the load*. But it wont be taking 4A WHEN THE BATTERY IS OUT OF THE CAR WITH A BENCH SUPPLY. Because the battery voltage will have risen once it has been charged so the original 4A will have dropped significantly WITH A BENCH SUPPLY. If you have a battery connected to a bench supply, it is still the load because it will always be taking *some* current. If it is taking 4 amps it is definitely loading the BENCH SUPPLY. It wont be taking 4A when charged unless you have completely ****ed up the voltage. Or a cell has died, in which case you have a 10V battery. I've done that and caused an explosion. |
#89
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 12/07/2019 14:37, TMS320 wrote:
On 12/07/2019 07:56, Daniel60 wrote: Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM: Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary from one manufacturer to another?? Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P Â*More volts requires more cells. Better to standardise on the size of a cell, set a maximum operating current and alter the number of cells according to cost/power requirements. Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. SteveW |
#90
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote: Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. -- *If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#91
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker wrote: Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. How do you propose decisions should be made on what is to be produced and when innovation is to be allowed? The same system that produced the Trabant in 1957 - and carried on producing it until 1990? -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#92
Posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker wrote: Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. We manage to agree on the standards of petrol that cars have to be able to run on now. We manage to impose (although not police) emissions standards. Standards are not the same in every country, but someone supplying from outside has to meet the standards in force in the UK. There is nothing wrong with countries co-operating on standards - only in having them imposed externally. SteveW |
#93
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Saturday, 13 July 2019 13:42:09 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Steve Walker wrote: Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. How do you propose decisions should be made on what is to be produced and when innovation is to be allowed? The same system that produced the Trabant in 1957 - and carried on producing it until 1990? as bad as the Trabbie was it was still appropriate transport in '90 in East Germany NT |
#94
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Saturday, 13 July 2019 22:59:47 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Steve Walker wrote: Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. We manage to agree on the standards of petrol that cars have to be able to run on now. We manage to impose (although not police) emissions standards. Standards are not the same in every country, but someone supplying from outside has to meet the standards in force in the UK. There is nothing wrong with countries co-operating on standards - only in having them imposed externally. SteveW There's a big difference between specifying externals like emission limits & specifying design-critical elements subject to rapid technological development like batteries. The latter is an effective way to stop progress & waste money. NT |
#95
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
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#96
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 14/07/2019 02:02, Steve Walker wrote:
8 You can buy D-cells in various technologies, of various capacities, but they'll all fit in the same torch. You should have said AA cells as that's what most car batteries are built from. It would take someone like the EU to specify the standards and to actually have enough influence to do it. |
#97
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote: Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. We manage to agree on the standards of petrol that cars have to be able to run on now. Really? Remember the Nikasil problems? We manage to impose (although not police) emissions standards. Standards are not the same in every country, but someone supplying from outside has to meet the standards in force in the UK. If the UK went it alone with this idea it would simply make its products even more uncompetitive. There is nothing wrong with countries co-operating on standards - only in having them imposed externally. Not much point in having a world standard if everyone is free to ignore it. -- *Corduroy pillows are making headlines. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#98
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?
In article ,
wrote: There's a big difference between specifying externals like emission limits & specifying design-critical elements subject to rapid technological development like batteries. The latter is an effective way to stop progress & waste money. Quite. Look at the way cordless tool batteries have increased in voltage over the years. -- *Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#99
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On 14/07/2019 10:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Steve Walker wrote: Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. We manage to agree on the standards of petrol that cars have to be able to run on now. Really? Remember the Nikasil problems? We manage to impose (although not police) emissions standards. Standards are not the same in every country, but someone supplying from outside has to meet the standards in force in the UK. If the UK went it alone with this idea it would simply make its products even more uncompetitive. There is nothing wrong with countries co-operating on standards - only in having them imposed externally. Not much point in having a world standard if everyone is free to ignore it. There is no worldwide standard on petrol. Some countries use 91 RON (or lower), we use 95 RON (higher rating is available). Therefore vehicles sold in the UK have to be able to run on what is available here. In this case I don't know whether it is a UK requirement or an EU one. Now, it is quite obvious that outside the EU, we would still match the EU, because that makes economic sense - but that is a choice, not a legal imposition. SteveW |
#100
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Sunday, 14 July 2019 02:02:24 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 14/07/2019 01:23, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 13 July 2019 22:59:47 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote: On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Steve Walker wrote: Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level. That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers rather than an individual being hit by a high fee. It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would benefit, not just the latest model. Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country. Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against. How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on. We manage to agree on the standards of petrol that cars have to be able to run on now. We manage to impose (although not police) emissions standards. Standards are not the same in every country, but someone supplying from outside has to meet the standards in force in the UK. There is nothing wrong with countries co-operating on standards - only in having them imposed externally. SteveW There's a big difference between specifying externals like emission limits & specifying design-critical elements subject to rapid technological development like batteries. The latter is an effective way to stop progress & waste money. Where did I say about specifiying battery technology? Only a physical design and voltage. ie you want to restrict them technologically. Indeed, I specifically mentioned them being replaced as technology improved. You can buy D-cells in various technologies, of various capacities, but they'll all fit in the same torch. SteveW Not comparable at all. D cells come in technologies that are broadly compatible. Car batteries do not. Putting a li-ion or even a NiFe in place of a lead acid would not go well And if a better technology comes along we want to use it, not prevent it. And before you step back to 'just the same size then', again physical battery format for EVs is not something that is likely to remain static. Faster charging requires more heat dissipation, which requires changes in physical format. It's a fastish moving technology change area. It's a bit like specifying hearing aid battery format back in the 50s, if all hearing aids still had to use pocket sized HT+LT ZnC batteries this would not be a good thing. NT |
#101
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Sunday, 14 July 2019 10:38:28 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/07/2019 02:02, Steve Walker wrote: 8 You can buy D-cells in various technologies, of various capacities, but they'll all fit in the same torch. You should have said AA cells as that's what most car batteries are built from. mind boggling It would take someone like the EU to specify the standards and to actually have enough influence to do it. |
#102
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Sunday, 14 July 2019 11:00:05 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tabbypurr wrote: There's a big difference between specifying externals like emission limits & specifying design-critical elements subject to rapid technological development like batteries. The latter is an effective way to stop progress & waste money. Quite. Look at the way cordless tool batteries have increased in voltage over the years. They've changed voltage, changed amphour capacity, changed size, changed physical format & changed charging technology. Only fools want to have stopped that. NT |
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?
"dennis@home" wrote in message ... On 15/07/2019 10:53, wrote: On Sunday, 14 July 2019 10:38:28 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote: On 14/07/2019 02:02, Steve Walker wrote: 8 You can buy D-cells in various technologies, of various capacities, but they'll all fit in the same torch. You should have said AA cells as that's what most car batteries are built from. mind boggling But true. More often 18650s |
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Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
On Tue, 16 Jul 2019 06:02:17 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: You should have said AA cells as that's what most car batteries are built from. mind boggling But true. More often 18650s HOW "more often", senile asshole? BG -- about senile Rot Speed: "This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage." MID: |
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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?
On Monday, 15 July 2019 12:09:03 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 15/07/2019 10:53, tabbypurr wrote: On Sunday, 14 July 2019 10:38:28 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote: On 14/07/2019 02:02, Steve Walker wrote: 8 You can buy D-cells in various technologies, of various capacities, but they'll all fit in the same torch. You should have said AA cells as that's what most car batteries are built from. mind boggling But true. on which planet? |
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