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Old May 16th 19, 08:47 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

Jeff Layman wrote:
On 15/05/19 22:18, Chris Green wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:


Exactly my problem with the Quinetic switches. If there's no obvious
way to tell if you've turned everything off then there's a (small)
risk that you may have turned everything on! I know it's easy to
reset them but you have to know which way they're working before you
know they need resetting.

What's the difficulty with just plugging in a light (or anything which
has a power-on light) to see if the power is on or not?

It rather spoils the simplicity of hitting a switch by the door as you
go out knowing that you've turned everything off.


Apologies - I wasn't clear. I meant having a low-power "Indicator" light
permanently plugged in to a spare socket to see whether or not the power
is on.

Ah, yes, I suppose that would be OK[ish]. A Quinetic switch with an
indicator of some sort seems the best solution so far.

--
Chris Green
·

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Old May 16th 19, 08:47 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

In article , Jeff Layman
wrote:
On 15/05/19 21:40, Chris Green wrote:
Robert wrote:
On 15/05/2019 12:24, Chris Green wrote:
We want a set of sockets (powering mostly low power things like
lamps, PCs, phone chargers, etc.) which can be turned on/off remotely
by somrthing like a switch by the door. Thus one would be able to
leave the room and 'turn off' using a swithch at the door.

It doesn't need to be long range, just across a room and I'd really
prefer something mains powered rather than battery powered. We don't
want to have to select what to turn off either, it just needs an
on/off switch (with specific on and off positions, need to know it's
off) to turn off all of the sockets on the particular circuit.

The Quinetic 16A remote is the best I can find so far but it's not
quite guaranteed to maintain it's on/off positions. Is there not
some sort of remote control switch that would look and feel like a
normal light switch, always 'up for off/down for on' (in the UK)?

The Quinetic Remote Socket Adaptor with a 4/6 way plug board really
is your best bet . By "guaranteed to maintain on/off position" do you
mean 0% chance of it being switched by external interference ? If so I
dont think any remote switch is. If you mean the ON and OFF positions
of the switch occasionally reverse, then I have had this happen with a
2 gang light switch very occasionally. Its usually easy to remedy -
put the switch in the required OFF position, remove power to the
remote adaptor or circuit being controlled , switch power back on.
Another way is to remove the switch out of range and set to correct
position.


Exactly my problem with the Quinetic switches. If there's no obvious
way to tell if you've turned everything off then there's a (small) risk
that you may have turned everything on! I know it's easy to reset them
but you have to know which way they're working before you know they
need resetting.


What's the difficulty with just plugging in a light (or anything which
has a power-on light) to see if the power is on or not?



no good if you're away from home, You need a surveillance camera to tell
you what you've done.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
  #23   Report Post  
Old May 16th 19, 08:49 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

Rod Speed wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message
...
On 15/05/2019 12:24, Chris Green wrote:
We want a set of sockets (powering mostly low power things like lamps,
PCs, phone chargers, etc.) which can be turned on/off remotely by
somrthing like a switch by the door. Thus one would be able to leave
the room and 'turn off' using a swithch at the door.

It doesn't need to be long range, just across a room and I'd really
prefer something mains powered rather than battery powered. We don't
want to have to select what to turn off either, it just needs an
on/off switch (with specific on and off positions, need to know it's
off) to turn off all of the sockets on the particular circuit.

The Quinetic 16A remote is the best I can find so far but it's not
quite guaranteed to maintain it's on/off positions. Is there not some
sort of remote control switch that would look and feel like a normal
light switch, always 'up for off/down for on' (in the UK)?

The Quinetic Remote Socket Adaptor with a 4/6 way plug board really is
your best bet .
By "guaranteed to maintain on/off position" do you mean 0% chance of it
being switched by external interference ? If so I dont think any remote
switch is.


Of course the ones with a decent level of digital security are.

You don’t see the car door unlockers unlocking themselves
accidentally due to external interference.

.... and most have separate buttons for lock and unlock so you
*know* you've locked (or unlocked it). This is what I want in a
remote switch.

--
Chris Green
·
  #24   Report Post  
Old May 16th 19, 09:17 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Thu, 16 May 2019 16:21:35 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Of course the ones with a decent level of digital security are.

You dont see the car door unlockers unlocking themselves
accidentally due to external interference.


Oh, ****! ...and this little thread was Rodent-free, so far! tsk

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
MID:
  #25   Report Post  
Old May 16th 19, 02:43 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 22,752
Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

On 15/05/2019 17:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 May 2019 17:33:42 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 12:42:50 +0100, GB wrote:

On 15/05/2019 12:24, Chris Green wrote:
We want a set of sockets (powering mostly low power things like lamps,
PCs, phone chargers, etc.) which can be turned on/off remotely by
somrthing like a switch by the door. Thus one would be able to leave
the room and 'turn off' using a swithch at the door.

It doesn't need to be long range, just across a room and I'd really
prefer something mains powered rather than battery powered. We don't
want to have to select what to turn off either, it just needs an on/off
switch (with specific on and off positions, need to know it's off) to
turn off all of the sockets on the particular circuit.

The Quinetic 16A remote is the best I can find so far but it's not
quite guaranteed to maintain it's on/off positions. Is there not some
sort of remote control switch that would look and feel like a normal
light switch, always 'up for off/down for on' (in the UK)?



A switched spur exactly meets your needs, but you'd need to do quite a
lot of new wiring to install it.

I'm quite surprised to hear that Qinetic switches don't work 100%.

Conversely I am totally unsurprised. I wouldn't trust *any* consumer-
grade wireless equipment. WiFi, bluetooth, proprietary zappers. None has
been 100% reliable. I can see where the money goes on military kit, if
they have to be 100% reliable.


IME military kit is not necessarily any more reliable. All you can
usually hope for is it will work at a wider temperature range, and be
designed to let you hose the remains of the previous operator off it
with no ill effects!


Neither of those have any truth IME. And yes I did work with such kit.


So your experience is limited, who knew?

Perhaps I need a "tongue in cheek" flag?

(and the "hose off" bit on some projects is a rather grim and sad
reality - I recall one installation of several mil spec workstations in
the back of a 4 tonne army truck that would be expected to operate not
far behind a front line ans so was considered vulnerable to chemical and
biological attack. It was designed such that you could open the drain
gates, and apply a high pressure hose to the top of it. All the kit had
to be IP68 or better)

As to reliable, much depends on your definition of reliable. Yup its
physically robust, and built with high reliability components, but it
general is only slightly less likely (if at all) to have bugs than
commercial kit.

The software for it is developed, designed and documented to far higher
standards than commercial kit. And its well tested, and usually far more
maintainable. However it also suffers from a much smaller user base in
many cases, and often relies on tool chains that have a vastly smaller
user bases than more traditional desktop development tools. So it can
take longer to find and fix issues than in the commercial world.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd -
http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #26   Report Post  
Old August 2nd 19, 06:30 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,108
Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

On 15/05/2019 17:33, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 12:42:50 +0100, GB wrote:

On 15/05/2019 12:24, Chris Green wrote:
We want a set of sockets (powering mostly low power things like lamps,
PCs, phone chargers, etc.) which can be turned on/off remotely by
somrthing like a switch by the door.* Thus one would be able to leave
the room and 'turn off' using a swithch at the door.

It doesn't need to be long range, just across a room and I'd really
prefer something mains powered rather than battery powered.* We don't
want to have to select what to turn off either, it just needs an on/off
switch (with specific on and off positions, need to know it's off) to
turn off all of the sockets on the particular circuit.

The Quinetic 16A remote is the best I can find so far but it's not
quite guaranteed to maintain it's on/off positions.* Is there not some
sort of remote control switch that would look and feel like a normal
light switch, always 'up for off/down for on' (in the UK)?



A switched spur exactly meets your needs, but you'd need to do quite a
lot of new wiring to install it.

I'm quite surprised to hear that Qinetic switches don't work 100%.


Conversely I am totally unsurprised. I wouldn't trust *any* consumer-
grade wireless equipment. WiFi, bluetooth, proprietary zappers. None has
been 100% reliable. I can see where the money goes on military kit, if
they have to be 100% reliable.


IME military kit is not necessarily any more reliable. All you can
usually hope for is it will work at a wider temperature range, and be
designed to let you hose the remains of the previous operator off it
with no ill effects!



I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the small round pin 5 amp sockets
that MK still sell (and still legal I believe) that are wired
as a radial circuit through a light switch. This allows all your
standard lamps, side lamps etc to be switch off with one switch.

Don't some European countries have this installed as standard ?.

  #27   Report Post  
Old August 2nd 19, 06:39 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 10,659
Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

On Thursday, 16 May 2019 14:43:47 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 17:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 May 2019 17:33:42 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:


Conversely I am totally unsurprised. I wouldn't trust *any* consumer-
grade wireless equipment. WiFi, bluetooth, proprietary zappers. None has
been 100% reliable. I can see where the money goes on military kit, if
they have to be 100% reliable.

IME military kit is not necessarily any more reliable. All you can
usually hope for is it will work at a wider temperature range, and be
designed to let you hose the remains of the previous operator off it
with no ill effects!


Neither of those have any truth IME. And yes I did work with such kit.


So your experience is limited, who knew?


if by limited you mean years in the industry then yes


Perhaps I need a "tongue in cheek" flag?

(and the "hose off" bit on some projects is a rather grim and sad
reality


Sadly it can be. However I don't believe any of the equipment I worked on or with or even just saw was hoseable.


- I recall one installation of several mil spec workstations in
the back of a 4 tonne army truck that would be expected to operate not
far behind a front line ans so was considered vulnerable to chemical and
biological attack. It was designed such that you could open the drain
gates, and apply a high pressure hose to the top of it. All the kit had
to be IP68 or better)


but a lot is not

As to reliable, much depends on your definition of reliable. Yup its
physically robust, and built with high reliability components, but it
general is only slightly less likely (if at all) to have bugs than
commercial kit.

The software for it is developed, designed and documented to far higher
standards than commercial kit. And its well tested, and usually far more
maintainable. However it also suffers from a much smaller user base in
many cases, and often relies on tool chains that have a vastly smaller
user bases than more traditional desktop development tools. So it can
take longer to find and fix issues than in the commercial world.


It's certainly better than domestic retaill stuff, no doubt. But still long term reliability varies a lot. Engineering for reliability is not as easy as it looks.


NT
  #28   Report Post  
Old August 2nd 19, 07:49 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 3,516
Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, 16 May 2019 14:43:47 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 17:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 May 2019 17:33:42 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:


Conversely I am totally unsurprised. I wouldn't trust *any*
consumer- grade wireless equipment. WiFi, bluetooth, proprietary
zappers. None has been 100% reliable. I can see where the money
goes on military kit, if they have to be 100% reliable.

IME military kit is not necessarily any more reliable. All you can
usually hope for is it will work at a wider temperature range, and
be designed to let you hose the remains of the previous operator off
it with no ill effects!

Neither of those have any truth IME. And yes I did work with such kit.


So your experience is limited, who knew?


if by limited you mean years in the industry then yes



Perhaps I need a "tongue in cheek" flag?

(and the "hose off" bit on some projects is a rather grim and sad
reality


Sadly it can be. However I don't believe any of the equipment I worked on
or with or even just saw was hoseable.



- I recall one installation of several mil spec workstations in the
back of a 4 tonne army truck that would be expected to operate not far
behind a front line ans so was considered vulnerable to chemical and
biological attack. It was designed such that you could open the drain
gates, and apply a high pressure hose to the top of it. All the kit had
to be IP68 or better)


but a lot is not


As to reliable, much depends on your definition of reliable. Yup its
physically robust, and built with high reliability components, but it
general is only slightly less likely (if at all) to have bugs than
commercial kit.

The software for it is developed, designed and documented to far higher
standards than commercial kit. And its well tested, and usually far
more maintainable. However it also suffers from a much smaller user
base in many cases, and often relies on tool chains that have a vastly
smaller user bases than more traditional desktop development tools. So
it can take longer to find and fix issues than in the commercial world.


It's certainly better than domestic retaill stuff, no doubt. But still
long term reliability varies a lot. Engineering for reliability is not as
easy as it looks.


Military kits is allowed to use leaded solder ;-)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
  #29   Report Post  
Old August 2nd 19, 11:31 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

On Friday, 2 August 2019 19:50:14 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 16 May 2019 14:43:47 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:


The software for it is developed, designed and documented to far higher
standards than commercial kit. And its well tested, and usually far
more maintainable. However it also suffers from a much smaller user
base in many cases, and often relies on tool chains that have a vastly
smaller user bases than more traditional desktop development tools. So
it can take longer to find and fix issues than in the commercial world.


It's certainly better than domestic retaill stuff, no doubt. But still
long term reliability varies a lot. Engineering for reliability is not as
easy as it looks.


Military kits is allowed to use leaded solder ;-)


I reckon one of the most important differences is vibration-proofing


NT
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Old August 3rd 19, 03:00 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 22,752
Default What's available to remotely switch a power circuit?

On 02/08/2019 19:49, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, 16 May 2019 14:43:47 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 17:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 May 2019 17:33:42 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/05/2019 13:47, Jethro_uk wrote:


Conversely I am totally unsurprised. I wouldn't trust *any*
consumer- grade wireless equipment. WiFi, bluetooth, proprietary
zappers. None has been 100% reliable. I can see where the money
goes on military kit, if they have to be 100% reliable.

IME military kit is not necessarily any more reliable. All you can
usually hope for is it will work at a wider temperature range, and
be designed to let you hose the remains of the previous operator off
it with no ill effects!

Neither of those have any truth IME. And yes I did work with such kit.

So your experience is limited, who knew?


if by limited you mean years in the industry then yes



Perhaps I need a "tongue in cheek" flag?

(and the "hose off" bit on some projects is a rather grim and sad
reality


Sadly it can be. However I don't believe any of the equipment I worked on
or with or even just saw was hoseable.



- I recall one installation of several mil spec workstations in the
back of a 4 tonne army truck that would be expected to operate not far
behind a front line ans so was considered vulnerable to chemical and
biological attack. It was designed such that you could open the drain
gates, and apply a high pressure hose to the top of it. All the kit had
to be IP68 or better)


but a lot is not


As to reliable, much depends on your definition of reliable. Yup its
physically robust, and built with high reliability components, but it
general is only slightly less likely (if at all) to have bugs than
commercial kit.

The software for it is developed, designed and documented to far higher
standards than commercial kit. And its well tested, and usually far
more maintainable. However it also suffers from a much smaller user
base in many cases, and often relies on tool chains that have a vastly
smaller user bases than more traditional desktop development tools. So
it can take longer to find and fix issues than in the commercial world.


It's certainly better than domestic retaill stuff, no doubt. But still
long term reliability varies a lot. Engineering for reliability is not as
easy as it looks.


Military kits is allowed to use leaded solder ;-)


Actually mandated rather than just allowed in some cases...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


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