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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Plinth
Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it
raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? |
#2
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Plinth
On 13/05/2019 10:43, DerbyBorn wrote:
Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? Mine sits on offcuts of flooring joists from an old job, so treated timber. Having seen how quickly a tiny leak in a sealed space under a bath resulted in dry rot. For the surface I would use 18 mm shuttering ply. Think seriously about access to the trap and/or something like a rodding eye for extracting the stuff that will certainly thrive in the drain pipe. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#3
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Plinth
On 13/05/2019 10:43, DerbyBorn wrote:
Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? bed it on sand and cement and tile the edges -- If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. Joseph Goebbels |
#4
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Plinth
On 13/05/2019 11:28, newshound wrote:
On 13/05/2019 10:43, DerbyBorn wrote: Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? Mine sits on offcuts of flooring joists from an old job, so treated timber. Having seen how quickly a tiny leak in a sealed space under a bath resulted in dry rot. For the surface I would use 18 mm shuttering ply. Think seriously about access to the trap and/or something like a rodding eye for extracting the stuff that will certainly thrive in the drain pipe. Many shower wastes have parts that can be pulled out from the top for cleaning, leaving the pipe opening exposed for cleaning out. Access from below is only required when fitting, sorting a leak or replacing - which I hope won't be necessary, but would simply mean that I cut a hole in the ceiling directly below and then fitted one of the small, plastic, access hatches or made good and repapered that ceiling. SteveW |
#6
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Plinth
newshound wrote in
o.uk: On 13/05/2019 10:43, DerbyBorn wrote: Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? Mine sits on offcuts of flooring joists from an old job, so treated timber. Having seen how quickly a tiny leak in a sealed space under a bath resulted in dry rot. For the surface I would use 18 mm shuttering ply. Think seriously about access to the trap and/or something like a rodding eye for extracting the stuff that will certainly thrive in the drain pipe. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus In over 33 years in the house I have never cleaned the bath trap. Using gels and liquid soaps means no scum (and the tiles stay shiny) |
#7
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Plinth
Mine sits on offcuts of flooring joists from an old job, so treated timber. Do you think short off-cuts are better than full length? Less likely to warp? |
#8
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Plinth
On 13/05/2019 10:43, DerbyBorn wrote:
Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? If the wood is properly seasoned prior to installation, then it ought not shrink any further. I would use pressure treated 4x2 for the basic framework, with a top layer of 19mm WPB ply, and then if its a stone resin tray, bed that onto a half inch screed of sand and cement - probably with a bit of SBR in there as an admixture. When installing the tray, butter the wall facing sides with silicone, and rule off the bead cleanly at the top edge of the tray. Then tiling / boarding - bring those down toward the tray, but leave a 1/4" gap, to later fill with silicone. Having a wide enough bead ensures it will get good adhesion, and also will tolerate any small amount of movement. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#9
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Plinth
On Mon, 13 May 2019 11:28:32 +0100, newshound wrote:
On 13/05/2019 10:43, DerbyBorn wrote: Planning a bathroom conversion - need a 1600 x 700mm shower tray. I need it raised about 5 inches off a T & G floor. Would rather have a plinth than legs. Any recommendation on materials for spacers and for a top surface. I realise "wood" is a simple answer - but just concerned about long term shrinkage and distortion. Any particular types I should aim for? Mine sits on offcuts of flooring joists from an old job, so treated timber. Having seen how quickly a tiny leak in a sealed space under a bath resulted in dry rot. For the surface I would use 18 mm shuttering ply. Think seriously about access to the trap and/or something like a rodding eye for extracting the stuff that will certainly thrive in the drain pipe. I'm changing to no trap inside and a waterless trap outside (having tested it at low temperature to make sure that it doesn't freeze shut). I'll use black pipe, to resist UV, with about a foot of black downpipe to cover the trap. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#10
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Plinth
If the wood is properly seasoned prior to installation, then it ought not shrink any further. I would use pressure treated 4x2 for the basic framework, with a top layer of 19mm WPB ply, and then if its a stone resin tray, bed that onto a half inch screed of sand and cement - probably with a bit of SBR in there as an admixture. When installing the tray, butter the wall facing sides with silicone, and rule off the bead cleanly at the top edge of the tray. Then tiling / boarding - bring those down toward the tray, but leave a 1/4" gap, to later fill with silicone. Having a wide enough bead ensures it will get good adhesion, and also will tolerate any small amount of movement. Sounds good - thanks I was thinking of getting a 1700mm tray and that would need chopping into the wall as is the bath it is replacing, The space is about 1680mm. I am now thinking this is additional work for no real benefit and am now thinking of a 1600mm tray. This will leave a small gap to be dealt with. Do you think it is a better way? Any thoughts on the "gap" |
#11
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Plinth
On 13/05/2019 17:44, DerbyBorn wrote:
If the wood is properly seasoned prior to installation, then it ought not shrink any further. I would use pressure treated 4x2 for the basic framework, with a top layer of 19mm WPB ply, and then if its a stone resin tray, bed that onto a half inch screed of sand and cement - probably with a bit of SBR in there as an admixture. When installing the tray, butter the wall facing sides with silicone, and rule off the bead cleanly at the top edge of the tray. Then tiling / boarding - bring those down toward the tray, but leave a 1/4" gap, to later fill with silicone. Having a wide enough bead ensures it will get good adhesion, and also will tolerate any small amount of movement. Sounds good - thanks I was thinking of getting a 1700mm tray and that would need chopping into the wall as is the bath it is replacing, The space is about 1680mm. I am now thinking this is additional work for no real benefit and am now thinking of a 1600mm tray. This will leave a small gap to be dealt with. Chopping a bath into the wall can be worthwhile - its a way of making a lighter weight acrylic bath far more rigid. For a shower tray there is no real advantage unless you need to do it to squeeze in a slightly oversized tray. Do you think it is a better way? Any thoughts on the "gap" It sounds like you will end up with 80mm of gap. The tiles (depending on type) could take up say 30mm, which leaves at least a couple of inches. So perhaps some 1" deep battens on the end walls, and a sheet of aquapanel or hardibacker fixed to them to bring the walls out to the right spacing? (that might amount to more work that chopping the tray in 10m on each end!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#12
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Plinth
On Monday, 13 May 2019 17:43:34 UTC+1, PeterC wrote:
I'm changing to no trap inside and a waterless trap outside (having tested it at low temperature to make sure that it doesn't freeze shut). I'll use black pipe, to resist UV, with about a foot of black downpipe to cover the trap. That'll stink, you need the trap right at the tray. NT |
#13
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Plinth
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk: On 13/05/2019 17:44, DerbyBorn wrote: If the wood is properly seasoned prior to installation, then it ought not shrink any further. I would use pressure treated 4x2 for the basic framework, with a top layer of 19mm WPB ply, and then if its a stone resin tray, bed that onto a half inch screed of sand and cement - probably with a bit of SBR in there as an admixture. When installing the tray, butter the wall facing sides with silicone, and rule off the bead cleanly at the top edge of the tray. Then tiling / boarding - bring those down toward the tray, but leave a 1/4" gap, to later fill with silicone. Having a wide enough bead ensures it will get good adhesion, and also will tolerate any small amount of movement. Sounds good - thanks I was thinking of getting a 1700mm tray and that would need chopping into the wall as is the bath it is replacing, The space is about 1680mm. I am now thinking this is additional work for no real benefit and am now thinking of a 1600mm tray. This will leave a small gap to be dealt with. Chopping a bath into the wall can be worthwhile - its a way of making a lighter weight acrylic bath far more rigid. For a shower tray there is no real advantage unless you need to do it to squeeze in a slightly oversized tray. Do you think it is a better way? Any thoughts on the "gap" It sounds like you will end up with 80mm of gap. The tiles (depending on type) could take up say 30mm, which leaves at least a couple of inches. So perhaps some 1" deep battens on the end walls, and a sheet of aquapanel or hardibacker fixed to them to bring the walls out to the right spacing? (that might amount to more work that chopping the tray in 10m on each end!) Long term leakage risks? Handling a heavy tray into the chopped out walls - difficulty in replacing it if ever needed? |
#14
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Plinth
On 13/05/2019 23:29, DerbyBorn wrote:
John Rumm wrote in o.uk: On 13/05/2019 17:44, DerbyBorn wrote: If the wood is properly seasoned prior to installation, then it ought not shrink any further. I would use pressure treated 4x2 for the basic framework, with a top layer of 19mm WPB ply, and then if its a stone resin tray, bed that onto a half inch screed of sand and cement - probably with a bit of SBR in there as an admixture. When installing the tray, butter the wall facing sides with silicone, and rule off the bead cleanly at the top edge of the tray. Then tiling / boarding - bring those down toward the tray, but leave a 1/4" gap, to later fill with silicone. Having a wide enough bead ensures it will get good adhesion, and also will tolerate any small amount of movement. Sounds good - thanks I was thinking of getting a 1700mm tray and that would need chopping into the wall as is the bath it is replacing, The space is about 1680mm. I am now thinking this is additional work for no real benefit and am now thinking of a 1600mm tray. This will leave a small gap to be dealt with. Chopping a bath into the wall can be worthwhile - its a way of making a lighter weight acrylic bath far more rigid. For a shower tray there is no real advantage unless you need to do it to squeeze in a slightly oversized tray. Do you think it is a better way? Any thoughts on the "gap" It sounds like you will end up with 80mm of gap. The tiles (depending on type) could take up say 30mm, which leaves at least a couple of inches. So perhaps some 1" deep battens on the end walls, and a sheet of aquapanel or hardibacker fixed to them to bring the walls out to the right spacing? (that might amount to more work that chopping the tray in 10m on each end!) Long term leakage risks? No different, I would expect. Handling a heavy tray into the chopped out walls Slightly more awkward to handle, but still doable IMHO. Use much the same technique: Chop out a bit higher than needed for the height of the tray. plus a little more at the front. Mix your screed and lay it on the ply. get it roughly level. Lay a couple of lengths of 15mm plastic pipe in the screed running front to back - they want to be the depth of the tray and another 4 to 6 inches long. With help (for that sized tray), offer the back of the tray on the edge of the platform - the pipes will take the weight and keep it clear of the screed. Now lower the front and slide it back into position - it slides easily on the pipe. Finally pull out the pipe to drop it on the screed, slap a level on it and tap it home with a rubber hammer etc. difficulty in replacing it if ever needed? A bit more of a pain - since once the tray is in place you will need to make good the plaster etc down to the top of the tray, and that will lock it in place. However there is no real need to get it out in one piece, and with stone resin trays its easy enough to break the edges off with a quick clomp from a hammer. So the centre bit of tray can come out, and then you can pull the edges free. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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