Hi,

A while back I asked about a motorised 3 way ch/hw valve that was
giving the symptoms of allowing ch when hw was called for.

I got the chance to test the valve from cold yesterday.

Removed the valve head
Rotated the valve to the hw position
Powered up the system.

I kept my hands on the pipe work either side of the valve (as far as I
could from the valve itself) and felt both sides heating up nearly
equally? ;-(

So, this suggests to me that the valve itself is faulty (damaged ball
etc) and whilst I'm more than happy to change the entire valve body
(it's on fairly short pipes that may need some 'persuading') it looks
like the valve itself is secured to the face of the valve body with 4
screws and sealed with an 'O' ring and so, might be swappable with
another / new / good unit?

http://www.freeheatingadvice.com/wp-...valve_ball.jpg

I have seen just the bodies available new for around 20 quid so this
would just cost the elderly lady that plus fresh inhibitor etc?

Worth a go ... or what are the chances the valve seats are worn etc?

Cheers, T i m

On 01/05/2019 09:36, T i m wrote:
Hi,

A while back I asked about a motorised 3 way ch/hw valve that was
giving the symptoms of allowing ch when hw was called for.

I got the chance to test the valve from cold yesterday.

Removed the valve head
Rotated the valve to the hw position
Powered up the system.

I kept my hands on the pipe work either side of the valve (as far as I
could from the valve itself) and felt both sides heating up nearly
equally? ;-(

So, this suggests to me that the valve itself is faulty (damaged ball
etc) and whilst I'm more than happy to change the entire valve body
(it's on fairly short pipes that may need some 'persuading') it looks
like the valve itself is secured to the face of the valve body with 4
screws and sealed with an 'O' ring and so, might be swappable with
another / new / good unit?

http://www.freeheatingadvice.com/wp-...valve_ball.jpg

I have seen just the bodies available new for around 20 quid so this
would just cost the elderly lady that plus fresh inhibitor etc?

Worth a go ... or what are the chances the valve seats are worn etc?

I would think it more likely that they will need cleaning up. The ball
is often some sort of "rubber" and the seats can end up with a rough
ring of rubber stuck to them as the ball deteriorates. The ball also
moves only a few millimetres and arrives at the seat flat on, so there
is little chance of seat wear.

SteveW

On Wed, 1 May 2019 10:23:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

So, this suggests to me that the valve itself is faulty (damaged ball
etc) and whilst I'm more than happy to change the entire valve body
(it's on fairly short pipes that may need some 'persuading') it looks
like the valve itself is secured to the face of the valve body with 4
screws and sealed with an 'O' ring and so, might be swappable with
another / new / good unit?

http://www.freeheatingadvice.com/wp-...valve_ball.jpg

I have seen just the bodies available new for around 20 quid so this
would just cost the elderly lady that plus fresh inhibitor etc?

Worth a go ... or what are the chances the valve seats are worn etc?

I would think it more likely that they will need cleaning up.

Just or as well as replacing the ball?

The ball
is often some sort of "rubber" and the seats can end up with a rough
ring of rubber stuck to them as the ball deteriorates.

Understood. I think the ball must have deteriorated fairly badly (on
one side possibly) because the rate at which both outlets heated with
the valve in the CH position was pretty similar?

The ball also
moves only a few millimetres and arrives at the seat flat on, so there
is little chance of seat wear.

Understood.

So, are you confirming that the idea of just swapping the valve mech
should be worth a shot?

Cheers, T i m

Make sure one is in stock then drain and investigate.

On Wed, 01 May 2019 14:41:56 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:





Make sure one is in stock then drain and investigate.

I think you can only buy the body on it's own [1] off eBay so I might
do that for her *anyway* and then I have the option of just the plate
/ ball valve or change the whole body.

Would it be ok to fill / flush with fresh water to check for leaks /
functionality before committing to the inhibitor?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think you can only officially buy the head, or head+body
(complete solution), not the valve body on it's own.

On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 17:57:18 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 14:41:56 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:





Make sure one is in stock then drain and investigate.

I think you can only buy the body on it's own [1] off eBay so I might
do that for her *anyway* and then I have the option of just the plate
/ ball valve or change the whole body.

Would it be ok to fill / flush with fresh water to check for leaks /
functionality before committing to the inhibitor?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think you can only officially buy the head, or head+body
(complete solution), not the valve body on it's own.


I've just been dealing with the same mymptom caused by the ball-stem seizing, a common mode of failure. You can replace any faulty part of it, including the ball-plate. The base (Below the ball plate) is not subject to wear. Beware of used parts. I saw base sections new on ebay for about £22. Obviously you need to know what's faulty first.-


NT

On Wed, 1 May 2019 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

[1] I think you can only officially buy the head, or head+body
(complete solution), not the valve body on it's own.

I've just been dealing with the same mymptom caused by the ball-stem seizing, a common mode of failure.

Not the case in this case I'm afraid, the shaft is 'finger turnable'
and even when turned firmly to HW only, you still get CH.

You can replace any faulty part of it, including the ball-plate.

Whist I couldn't imagine the valves being assembled with 'matched'
actuator arms / ball-valves, I thought I'd ask here first.

The base (Below the ball plate) is not subject to wear.

Understood. I was concerned if it could simply be a piece of limescale
that could be impinging across the face of the CH outlet.

Beware of used parts.

I would only go new on this sort of thing.

I saw base sections new on ebay for about £22. Obviously you need to know what's faulty first.-

Well, other than it's difficult to go much further without examining
the insides of the valve?

*If* the valve actuator arm, ball and mounting plate should be
interchangeable between all such valves (Make / model etc) then I'll
first get one, then drain the system and examine the valve by removing
the side plate. If it's that (damaged ball and I don't know what else
it could be), then I could first swap the backplate and if there is
some compatibility issue, put the complete new valve body on (that I
can test for leaks before fitting etc).

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 23:52:19 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

[1] I think you can only officially buy the head, or head+body
(complete solution), not the valve body on it's own.

I've just been dealing with the same mymptom caused by the ball-stem seizing, a common mode of failure.

Not the case in this case I'm afraid, the shaft is 'finger turnable'
and even when turned firmly to HW only, you still get CH.

Well if you're getting outputs from both ports, the motor is moving to halfway and stalling as it should. Which leads me to question if the valve is actually the problem. Have you monitord its electrical lines?

You can replace any faulty part of it, including the ball-plate.

Whist I couldn't imagine the valves being assembled with 'matched'
actuator arms / ball-valves, I thought I'd ask here first.

The base (Below the ball plate) is not subject to wear.

Understood. I was concerned if it could simply be a piece of limescale
that could be impinging across the face of the CH outlet.

easy enough to scrape it, but assuming it's a vaguely modern primary the water seldom changes, so no limescale opportunity.


Beware of used parts.

I would only go new on this sort of thing.

I saw base sections new on ebay for about �22. Obviously you need to know what's faulty first.-

Well, other than it's difficult to go much further without examining
the insides of the valve?

*If* the valve actuator arm, ball and mounting plate should be
interchangeable between all such valves (Make / model etc) then I'll

very unlikely

first get one, then drain the system and examine the valve by removing
the side plate. If it's that (damaged ball and I don't know what else
it could be), then I could first swap the backplate and if there is
some compatibility issue, put the complete new valve body on (that I
can test for leaks before fitting etc).

Cheers, T i m

It could be an electrical issue. They also suffer from swollen balls sometimes. I can only hope that's not your problem.


NT

On Wed, 1 May 2019 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 23:52:19 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

[1] I think you can only officially buy the head, or head+body
(complete solution), not the valve body on it's own.

I've just been dealing with the same mymptom caused by the ball-stem seizing, a common mode of failure.

Not the case in this case I'm afraid, the shaft is 'finger turnable'
and even when turned firmly to HW only, you still get CH.

Well if you're getting outputs from both ports, the motor is moving to halfway and stalling as it should. Which leads me to question if the valve is actually the problem. Have you monitord its electrical lines?

No need mate, the valve was turned into the HW only position manually
and heat was still felt in the CH pipes.

You can replace any faulty part of it, including the ball-plate.

Whist I couldn't imagine the valves being assembled with 'matched'
actuator arms / ball-valves, I thought I'd ask here first.

The base (Below the ball plate) is not subject to wear.

Understood. I was concerned if it could simply be a piece of limescale
that could be impinging across the face of the CH outlet.

easy enough to scrape it, but assuming it's a vaguely modern primary the water seldom changes, so no limescale opportunity.

Ok.


Beware of used parts.

I would only go new on this sort of thing.

I saw base sections new on ebay for about ?22. Obviously you need to know what's faulty first.-

Well, other than it's difficult to go much further without examining
the insides of the valve?

*If* the valve actuator arm, ball and mounting plate should be
interchangeable between all such valves (Make / model etc) then I'll

very unlikely

Really, between the *same* make and model?

first get one, then drain the system and examine the valve by removing
the side plate. If it's that (damaged ball and I don't know what else
it could be), then I could first swap the backplate and if there is
some compatibility issue, put the complete new valve body on (that I
can test for leaks before fitting etc).

Cheers, T i m

It could be an electrical issue.

See above.

They also suffer from swollen balls sometimes. I can only hope that's not your problem.

;-)

Well, I'm pretty sure it is a mechanical issue with the CH outlet not
being closed off properly.

Cheers, T i m

On Thursday, 2 May 2019 11:54:20 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 23:52:19 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

Well if you're getting outputs from both ports, the motor is moving to halfway and stalling as it should. Which leads me to question if the valve is actually the problem. Have you monitord its electrical lines?

No need mate, the valve was turned into the HW only position manually
and heat was still felt in the CH pipes.

*If* the valve actuator arm, ball and mounting plate should be
interchangeable between all such valves (Make / model etc) then I'll

very unlikely

Really, between the *same* make and model?

ah, communication issues. Aren't they fun

They also suffer from swollen balls sometimes. I can only hope that's not your problem.

;-)

Well, I'm pretty sure it is a mechanical issue with the CH outlet not
being closed off properly.

Cheers, T i m

TBH it sounds like a swollen ball is a prime candidate. I feel sorry for you.
Have you run it with the head off, moving the shaft to HW only by hand? If it still heats the CH then, you must have a swelling problem. I'm told you can buy replacement balls.


NT

On Thu, 2 May 2019 05:38:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

TBH it sounds like a swollen ball is a prime candidate. I feel sorry for you.
Have you run it with the head off, moving the shaft to HW only by hand?

"I got the chance to test the valve from cold yesterday.

Removed the valve head
Rotated the valve to the hw position
Powered up the system."


If it still heats the CH then, you must have a swelling problem.

Or some mechanical valve related problem, likely to do with the ball.

I'm told you can buy replacement balls.

Oooh, a link would be nice. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Friday, 3 May 2019 00:01:46 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 2 May 2019 05:38:47 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

TBH it sounds like a swollen ball is a prime candidate. I feel sorry for you.
Have you run it with the head off, moving the shaft to HW only by hand?

"I got the chance to test the valve from cold yesterday.

Removed the valve head
Rotated the valve to the hw position
Powered up the system."


If it still heats the CH then, you must have a swelling problem.

Or some mechanical valve related problem, likely to do with the ball.

if the shaft moves, the ball is the only real candidate.

I'm told you can buy replacement balls.

Oooh, a link would be nice. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I've never had that problem myself. I just got the whole lower end assembly with shaft & ball. Removal turrned out to be painless. I couldn't get the old O ring out so used a bit of linseed putty to reseal. £22.99 on ebay.


NT

On Fri, 3 May 2019 02:07:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

I just got the whole lower end assembly with shaft & ball. Removal turrned out to be painless.

So I hoped it could be, if it was acknowledged that all the valves /
bodies (from the same make / model / version) were interchangeable
etc.

I couldn't get the old O ring out so used a bit of linseed putty to reseal.

Ok, I was thinking silicone sealant.

£22.99 on ebay.

Check.

Cheers, T i m

On Friday, 3 May 2019 10:15:37 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2019 02:07:26 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

I just got the whole lower end assembly with shaft & ball. Removal turrned out to be painless.

So I hoped it could be, if it was acknowledged that all the valves /
bodies (from the same make / model / version) were interchangeable
etc.

I just got the exact same model number.


NT

I couldn't get the old O ring out so used a bit of linseed putty to reseal.

Ok, I was thinking silicone sealant.

£22.99 on ebay.

Check.

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 4 May 2019 00:11:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, 3 May 2019 10:15:37 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2019 02:07:26 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

I just got the whole lower end assembly with shaft & ball. Removal turrned out to be painless.

So I hoped it could be, if it was acknowledged that all the valves /
bodies (from the same make / model / version) were interchangeable
etc.

I just got the exact same model number.


The replacement I've got doesn't have a model number on 'it' as such?

I'll offer it up and compare it physically before draining down the
system. ;-)

Cheers, T i m