I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

The rules for cable on a ring, art that each leg must have an as
installed continuous current rating of at least 21A. So you could argue
that is the minimum rating for any junction also.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

Yup 30A sounds like a better plan.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Scott has brought this to us :
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

I treat the current rating only as a guide for the cable size they are
able to accept, rather than a rating of the actual connector. I would
happily use a 15amp, providing I could get both cable in and allow them
to overlap, so both terminal screws tighten onto both cables.

On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY

--
Adam

On 20/03/2019 19:15, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Scott has brought this to us :
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

I treat the current rating only as a guide for the cable size they are
able to accept, rather than a rating of the actual connector. I would
happily use a 15amp, providing I could get both cable in and allow them
to overlap, so both terminal screws tighten onto both cables.

Agreed.

Is it "accessible", though? If not, should be soldered and heat shrunk /
taped, or crimped.

On 20/03/2019 19:15, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Scott has brought this to us :
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

I treat the current rating only as a guide for the cable size they are
able to accept, rather than a rating of the actual connector. I would
happily use a 15amp, providing I could get both cable in and allow them
to overlap, so both terminal screws tighten onto both cables.

That's fair for your traditional chock block style connector, but
possibly less so for wago style ones where the individual wires are
connected only though the connector and make no direct contact with
each other.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Logic would suggest that if its a ring its a ring for a reason, but that
would mean you would need the big un, but maybe somebody else understands
the history of ring mains vs spurs etc.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 22:08:10 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 20/03/2019 19:15, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Scott has brought this to us :
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

I treat the current rating only as a guide for the cable size they are
able to accept, rather than a rating of the actual connector. I would
happily use a 15amp, providing I could get both cable in and allow them
to overlap, so both terminal screws tighten onto both cables.

That's fair for your traditional chock block style connector, but
possibly less so for wago style ones where the individual wires are
connected only though the connector and make no direct contact with
each other.

It's a choc block. There are three cables in total. One of the
cables runs through both screws. The other two cables come in at
opposite sides. The effect is (a) there is a cable running through to
supplement the connector and (b) each of the other cables is screwed
against the through cable. It's a good tight fit. FWIW they are
neutral (black) not live cables.

To clarify: A comes in at the left and goes through both screws, B
comes in at the left therefore in direct contact with A and C comes in
on the right, also in direct contact with A.

In light of this, does the 'leave well alone' principle perhaps apply?

On 21/03/2019 09:59, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 22:08:10 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 20/03/2019 19:15, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Scott has brought this to us :
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

Depending on where on the ring the joint is, and also where the major
loads are, the load may not be shared equally on each leg at the point
of your join. Hence why there is a minimum installed capacity for the
cables themselves of 21A, rather than just half the nominal rating of
the circuit.


On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

I treat the current rating only as a guide for the cable size they are
able to accept, rather than a rating of the actual connector. I would
happily use a 15amp, providing I could get both cable in and allow them
to overlap, so both terminal screws tighten onto both cables.

That's fair for your traditional chock block style connector, but
possibly less so for wago style ones where the individual wires are
connected only though the connector and make no direct contact with
each other.

It's a choc block. There are three cables in total. One of the
cables runs through both screws. The other two cables come in at
opposite sides. The effect is (a) there is a cable running through to
supplement the connector and (b) each of the other cables is screwed
against the through cable. It's a good tight fit.

That sounds like it should be fine.

FWIW they are
neutral (black) not live cables.

Neutral still carries the full circuit current, so that does not make
any difference.

To clarify: A comes in at the left and goes through both screws, B
comes in at the left therefore in direct contact with A and C comes in
on the right, also in direct contact with A.

In light of this, does the 'leave well alone' principle perhaps apply?

Not really, it sounds like you have a solution that will work well
enough. In reality most terminals you will be able to find that will
take the size of conductors you are using will give an adequate result.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:54:59 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 09:59, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 22:08:10 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 20/03/2019 19:15, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Scott has brought this to us :
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

Depending on where on the ring the joint is, and also where the major
loads are, the load may not be shared equally on each leg at the point
of your join. Hence why there is a minimum installed capacity for the
cables themselves of 21A, rather than just half the nominal rating of
the circuit.


On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

I treat the current rating only as a guide for the cable size they are
able to accept, rather than a rating of the actual connector. I would
happily use a 15amp, providing I could get both cable in and allow them
to overlap, so both terminal screws tighten onto both cables.

That's fair for your traditional chock block style connector, but
possibly less so for wago style ones where the individual wires are
connected only though the connector and make no direct contact with
each other.

It's a choc block. There are three cables in total. One of the
cables runs through both screws. The other two cables come in at
opposite sides. The effect is (a) there is a cable running through to
supplement the connector and (b) each of the other cables is screwed
against the through cable. It's a good tight fit.

That sounds like it should be fine.

FWIW they are
neutral (black) not live cables.

Neutral still carries the full circuit current, so that does not make
any difference.

To clarify: A comes in at the left and goes through both screws, B
comes in at the left therefore in direct contact with A and C comes in
on the right, also in direct contact with A.

In light of this, does the 'leave well alone' principle perhaps apply?

Not really, it sounds like you have a solution that will work well
enough. In reality most terminals you will be able to find that will
take the size of conductors you are using will give an adequate result.

Thanks for your help. I had already done it in the way I described
but I became concerned whether I should change it when I realised the
terminal block was 16A. I'm leaving it as it's very secure with
plenty of surface contact.

On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


30A and crimping sounds better if you have a crimping tool.

On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT

On 21/03/2019 16:12, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

The hole size in a 15 amp choc block is pretty similar to that in a 13 amp
socket. And if you overlap the conductors so both screws grip both, I'd
say it is going to be just as good as a socket terminal.

--
*Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.

If it all fits, I'd use the 30A based on the fuse size. The fuse is
there to protect wiring, and 15A seems a bit weedy just in case the ring
gets accidentally broken.

dennis@home wrote:

On 21/03/2019 16:12, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last. Wago might be gas
tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement
occurs. Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament
to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

Agree. No threaded connector is secure without an *adequate* locking
mechanism or sealant. If you look at WW2 electronic stuff, any
terminals are lacquered. May not be adequate, but at least they tried.
Wagos are supposed to be used with cables retained or clipped down (and
in the latter case the box they are in must also be fixed).

--

Roger Hayter

On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.


NT

On Friday, 22 March 2019 00:20:21 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last. Wago might be gas
tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement
occurs. Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament
to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

Agree.

you may like to go inspect the wire ends in some choc blocks then. You'll find the connecting surfaces aren't corroded despite years or decades of service.

No threaded connector is secure without an *adequate* locking
mechanism or sealant.

rather ambiguous

If you look at WW2 electronic stuff, any
terminals are lacquered. May not be adequate, but at least they tried.
Wagos are supposed to be used with cables retained or clipped down (and
in the latter case the box they are in must also be fixed).

On 22/03/2019 01:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.

That does rather depend on if there was adequate screw pressure created
when the termination was made. Also on terminations that cycle through a
larger temperature range, its not uncommon for terminal pressure to
loosen with time.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:02:17 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 22/03/2019 01:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.

That does rather depend on if there was adequate screw pressure created
when the termination was made. Also on terminations that cycle through a
larger temperature range, its not uncommon for terminal pressure to
loosen with time.

I never imagined my question would generate such a response :-)

I am tempted to change to a 30A block just for peace of mind, even
though I am sure the method I have used is fine :-( :-( :-( In
fact, I think I'll get my mate (who is a retired electrical engineer)
to carry out a full risk assessment.

On Friday, 22 March 2019 11:02:19 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/03/2019 01:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.

On Friday, 22 March 2019 12:13:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:02:17 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:
On 22/03/2019 01:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new..
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.

That does rather depend on if there was adequate screw pressure created
when the termination was made. Also on terminations that cycle through a
larger temperature range, its not uncommon for terminal pressure to
loosen with time.

I never imagined my question would generate such a response :-)

I am tempted to change to a 30A block just for peace of mind, even
though I am sure the method I have used is fine :-( :-( :-( In
fact, I think I'll get my mate (who is a retired electrical engineer)
to carry out a full risk assessment.

If you put both cables in the full length of the connector rather than folding each, a 15A connector is fine.


NT

On 22/03/2019 00:20, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

On 21/03/2019 16:12, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last. Wago might be gas
tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement
occurs. Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament
to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

Agree. No threaded connector is secure without an *adequate* locking
mechanism or sealant. If you look at WW2 electronic stuff, any
terminals are lacquered. May not be adequate, but at least they tried.
Wagos are supposed to be used with cables retained or clipped down (and
in the latter case the box they are in must also be fixed).


A wago box would be OK without clipping the cables as they have cable
clamps.

dennis@home wrote:

On 22/03/2019 00:20, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

On 21/03/2019 16:12, wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last. Wago might be gas
tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement
occurs. Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament
to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

Agree. No threaded connector is secure without an *adequate* locking
mechanism or sealant. If you look at WW2 electronic stuff, any
terminals are lacquered. May not be adequate, but at least they tried.
Wagos are supposed to be used with cables retained or clipped down (and
in the latter case the box they are in must also be fixed).


A wago box would be OK without clipping the cables as they have cable
clamps.

Sorry, that's what I meant by "retained" - being brief.

--

Roger Hayter

wrote:

On Friday, 22 March 2019 12:13:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:02:17 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:
On 22/03/2019 01:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered
if this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse
(RCBO) or if 15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring
and some of the current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to
know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly
Wwon't be if any movement occurs. irenuts aren't gas tight. US
Welectrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.

That does rather depend on if there was adequate screw pressure created
when the termination was made. Also on terminations that cycle through a
larger temperature range, its not uncommon for terminal pressure to
loosen with time.

I never imagined my question would generate such a response :-)

I am tempted to change to a 30A block just for peace of mind, even
though I am sure the method I have used is fine :-( :-( :-( In
fact, I think I'll get my mate (who is a retired electrical engineer)
to carry out a full risk assessment.

If you put both cables in the full length of the connector rather than
folding each, a 15A connector is fine.


NT

May even be better than the 30A one if there is room in the latter for
the screw to separate the two wires and let them slip round the sides.

--

Roger Hayter

On 22/03/2019 12:13, Scott wrote:

I never imagined my question would generate such a response :-)

I am tempted to change to a 30A block just for peace of mind, even
though I am sure the method I have used is fine :-( :-( :-( In
fact, I think I'll get my mate (who is a retired electrical engineer)
to carry out a full risk assessment.

I think you are over worrying


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/03/2019 15:17, wrote:
On Friday, 22 March 2019 11:02:19 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/03/2019 01:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.

That does rather depend on if there was adequate screw pressure created
when the termination was made.

obviously

Its not always easy to judge though since it depends on the area of the
screw "point". Some older fittings had quite large diameter screws that
needed lots more pressure to bite into the copper and form a gas tight
seal.

Also on terminations that cycle through a
larger temperature range, its not uncommon for terminal pressure to
loosen with time.

occasional loosening is their one weakness. I trust them far more than wirenuts or sprung pushins though.

Don't think I have ever met a real wirenut in fixed wiring applications...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 22 March 2019 22:33:45 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/03/2019 15:17, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 22 March 2019 11:02:19 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/03/2019 01:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 16:41:09 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:12, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 12:53:00 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:

I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block.Â* I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYD8e7idnY


The video shows that the connectors will carry the current when new.
But what happens after they have had a few thermal cycles?
I would think the wire nut and the choc block will fail first.

Choc block & crimp are gas-tight, so should last.
Wago might be gas tight if the wire is never moved, it certainly won't be if any movement occurs.
Wirenuts aren't gas tight. US electrical fires are a testament to that.


NT


choc block are not gas tight.

yes they are. You're free to go & learn something.

That does rather depend on if there was adequate screw pressure created
when the termination was made.

obviously

Its not always easy to judge though since it depends on the area of the
screw "point". Some older fittings had quite large diameter screws that
needed lots more pressure to bite into the copper and form a gas tight
seal.

I figure if you're biting into the copper it should be gas-tight.


Also on terminations that cycle through a
larger temperature range, its not uncommon for terminal pressure to
loosen with time.

occasional loosening is their one weakness. I trust them far more than wirenuts or sprung pushins though.

Don't think I have ever met a real wirenut in fixed wiring applications....

I've seen some right horrors. Wirenuts in fixed wiring only seldom. One prize winner candidate was a factory floor full of industrial sewing machines all powered by wires strung overhead. Only just overhead, any random scrap of any old wire, joined by twisting the ends together, not even insulting tape. No earth in sight, no support for the wires anywhere other than at the ends. How the forces on the wires didn't pull the twist joints apart & bring live wires down on people's heads I don't know. Maybe the 'electrician' was a master in knots.


NT

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:31:24 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 22/03/2019 12:13, Scott wrote:

I never imagined my question would generate such a response :-)

I am tempted to change to a 30A block just for peace of mind, even
though I am sure the method I have used is fine :-( :-( :-( In
fact, I think I'll get my mate (who is a retired electrical engineer)
to carry out a full risk assessment.

I think you are over worrying

I think you're right. Thanks.

In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus
On 20/03/2019 18:11, Scott wrote:
I discovered a problem with a join in a ring main and decided to
replace the faulty connector with a terminal block. I wondered if
this needs to be rated at 30A to correspond with the fuse (RCBO) or if
15A would be okay on the basis that it is a ring and some of the
current will go each way round.

On the Brunel principle I am fitting 30A but I am curious to know.


30A and crimping sounds better if you have a crimping tool.


Agreed with our Den there BUT you must have the better type of ratchet crimper
and then you won't have a problem.

We never have 1000's of crimps later!..

Tool Satan do one here..


https://www.toolstation.com/expert-r...rchstr=crimper


--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.