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In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:24:07 +0000, charles wrote:


Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?


The system is provided by Kingston Communications - in any case what has
that got to do with phones - that service comes from BT


Are you *really* asking what VoIP has to do with phones???


MY phone service is not VOIP.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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On 21/03/2019 10:24, charles wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 21:47, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:32:55 +0000, charles wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:
On 20/03/2019 16:15, charles wrote:
In article , Mark
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:16:21 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:20:36 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
After the number of nuisance calls my phone system was blocking,
fell to almost no calls, there has been a sudden increase in
their number in the past few days. 10 such calls yesterday
blocked, all supposedly
from different spoofed numbers.

They do like to waste their time.

Apparently my Internet service is compromised! Recorded
announcement so I suppose the only cost is the call charge.

I have also had a few 'This is Microsoft Technical' calls from
India recently and after dispatching one (who was fairly
persistent), also had the 'This is BT Technical, your line is
compromised' recorded message with a press 1 or 2 option.

Never respond to these!

pressing '1' can connect you to a premium rate call number.

That sounds unlikely... Got any supporting evidence?

not in writing, but my ISP owner told me, And I tend to believe him.

I would get a new ISP if I were you. It is patently not true.





Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?


The system is provided by Kingston Communications - in any case what has
that got to do with phones - that service comes from BT


not in kingston it doesn't. Its the only bit of the UK where BT doesn't
run the phone service.


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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 08:19:53 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.
On the landline its been pretty constant over time. I can tell from the call
recorders whisper files. These get recorded when the device asks you to
specify a name, and the pre recorded ones often stay connected long enough
to register a short recording. Most of the others hang up and every so often
I just add the numbers, real or otherwise to my local zap list

It must be a thankless task for a human which I imagine is why so many are
now pre recorded.


I just wind them up if I can. They were looking for somebody, not me.
I said I thought he was serving three years and suggested they try the
Scottish Prison Service.
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On 21/03/2019 12:20, charles wrote:
In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:24:07 +0000, charles wrote:


Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?

The system is provided by Kingston Communications - in any case what has
that got to do with phones - that service comes from BT


Are you *really* asking what VoIP has to do with phones???


MY phone service is not VOIP.


given that the 21cn network has provision for doing POTs via VoIP you
can't be sure of that.

We designed cards for the DSLAMs that could supply xDSL and POTs using
VoIP for the POTs and they were controlled by a soft switch based on
SystemX.

They were to be installed in the cabinets in the streets so BT could
sell the exchange buildings.



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In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 10:24, charles wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 20/03/2019 21:47, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:32:55 +0000, charles wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:
On 20/03/2019 16:15, charles wrote:
In article , Mark
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:16:21 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:20:36 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
After the number of nuisance calls my phone system was blocking,
fell to almost no calls, there has been a sudden increase in
their number in the past few days. 10 such calls yesterday
blocked, all supposedly
from different spoofed numbers.

They do like to waste their time.

Apparently my Internet service is compromised! Recorded
announcement so I suppose the only cost is the call charge.

I have also had a few 'This is Microsoft Technical' calls from
India recently and after dispatching one (who was fairly
persistent), also had the 'This is BT Technical, your line is
compromised' recorded message with a press 1 or 2 option.

Never respond to these!

pressing '1' can connect you to a premium rate call number.

That sounds unlikely... Got any supporting evidence?

not in writing, but my ISP owner told me, And I tend to believe him.

I would get a new ISP if I were you. It is patently not true.





Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?


The system is provided by Kingston Communications - in any case what has
that got to do with phones - that service comes from BT


not in kingston it doesn't. Its the only bit of the UK where BT doesn't
run the phone service.


I'm not in Kingston (upon Hull)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle


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Harry Bloomfield formulated on Wednesday :
After the number of nuisance calls my phone system was blocking, fell to
almost no calls, there has been a sudden increase in their number in the past
few days. 10 such calls yesterday blocked, all supposedly from different
spoofed numbers.

They do like to waste their time.


...and none of the calls at all, since the 19th. There were 10 calls
blocked, all from spoofed numbers and 8 of them presented different
numbers. The sudden rise and fall in the number, suggests to me that
all must have come from the same source and they were very keen to try
to get through :-)
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On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.


Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

SteveW
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 07:17:29 +1100, "Jac Brown"
wrote:



"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
...
Mark has brought this to us :
I've decided to implement a very agressive call-blocker which blocks
almost all unknown callers (i.e witheld, faked numbers etc). This has
taken a long time for me to decide, but I think the risk of missing
the odd legit call is worth it.



That is what I do, only the known to the phones numbers get straight
through, the rest can deal with the blocker. Any valid organisation will
follow the procedure and get through the blocker, they are used to them.


But someone you know who is desperate for some help from
you, calling from someone else's phone or a borrowed mobile
may be too desperate to fart around with the blocker.


With mine they could leave a message, explaining who they are and I
can decide whether to answer the call or not.
--
Little Britain leaves. Great Britain stays.
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.


Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!


IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".

--
Little Britain leaves. Great Britain stays.
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On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.


Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!


IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.




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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.


Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

Except they are not really opt-outs at all. They are a method of
checking the number is valid thus increasing its value when sold on.
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!


IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.

--
Little Britain leaves. Great Britain stays.
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On 21/03/2019 16:26, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


How are you going to enforce UK laws on overseas companies?

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On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.


Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!


IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


The law may say that, but the phone calls, still say something like,
"Press 8 to be removed from our database" and when over a period of 6 or
7 weeks, you have received 10 phonecalls from the same company and don't
have a tone dial on the phone you are answering with, it gets damned
annoying!

I could have left it off the hook and gone and grabbed another phone,
but my wife has a long term illness, the phone was in the bedroom
(ringer off) and she was asleep, with the light off and I didn't want to
wake her in finding it quickly.

SteveW
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:40:19 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 16:26, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


How are you going to enforce UK laws on overseas companies?


If the company does business here then they must have a UK presence,
yes? Therefore fines could be imposed for breaching UK laws.

--
Little Britain leaves. Great Britain stays.


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On 21/03/2019 16:10, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.


Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

Except they are not really opt-outs at all. They are a method of
checking the number is valid thus increasing its value when sold on.


They know it is a valid number simply because the line has rung, they
don't even need someone to answer, never mind press a button, to prove
its validity.

SteveW
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:26:52 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


Depends what you mean by 'do business'. If they have a branch or
office in the UK, I agree with you but if they are based abroad and
phoning UK numbers, I don't see how that would work. You can't get
somebody extradited for an alleged crime that took place outside the
jurisdiction. By that logic, if someone used a clone of my credit
card in Hong Kong, they could be brought to court and prosecuted in
the UK. How would that work? Extraordinary rendition?
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In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The TrueCall is good in that you enter your phone book and it lets any
on that straight through. Any others have to jump through hoops to
leave a message. Which I'd say no spam caller is going to bother with.
It's also easy to disable - if you simply switch off the mains to it,
it routes the lines straight through. Quicker than entering a code.
Downside is it isn't free.


It is free with a set of BT8500 phones :-)


But can you update your caller list via the web using your computer
keyboard or by copying text? Doing it on a phone keypad can be a PITA.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 09:06:54 +0000 (GMT+00:00), "Graham."
wrote:

Wrote in message:
Had a new one last night. Asking for me by full name. "I understand you have shares in XXXX (a large multinational Co)". "I am calling from a large USA company who wishes to take this company over."

Me: Please confirm in writing. Caller Hangs up.

Makes a change from BT, MS and the other usual scammers.


I've had the "Would you like to invest in fine wines" a couple of
times.


Never tried it but I'm told 'I'd like you to know that I'm not wearing
any knickers' works quite well.
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On 21/03/2019 16:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:26, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say,
the last
month or so.
Â*Â*Â* some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell
stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt outÂ* number to hit, and having
checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to
opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80
year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


How are you going to enforce UK laws on overseas companies?


The calls are usually from overseas call centres that do not fall under
UK law, but they are gathering customers for UK companies to actually
sell goods or services. Simply extend the law to cover that by fining
the companies in the UK for each call made on their behalf.

SteveW


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On 21/03/2019 16:44, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:26:52 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


Depends what you mean by 'do business'. If they have a branch or
office in the UK, I agree with you but if they are based abroad and
phoning UK numbers, I don't see how that would work. You can't get
somebody extradited for an alleged crime that took place outside the
jurisdiction. By that logic, if someone used a clone of my credit
card in Hong Kong, they could be brought to court and prosecuted in
the UK. How would that work? Extraordinary rendition?


How many nuisance calls have you received where the services or goods
being offered are being advertised for a company that does not have a UK
presence? I've not had one. They have all been for double glazing, new
boilers, new kitchens, accident compensation, etc., where there is a
clear UK presence that is simply using overseas call centres to get
around the UK laws.

SteveW
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On 21/03/2019 16:43, Steve Walker wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:10, Scott wrote:


[snip]

Except they are not really opt-outs at all.Â* They are a method of
checking the number is valid thus increasing its value when sold on.


They know it is a valid number simply because the line has rung, they
don't even need someone to answer, never mind press a button, to prove
its validity.


It does however mean that they know that the number is one where the
call likely to be picked up by a human. This might increase its value
when sold on.

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On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:45:49 +0000, Scott wrote:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 09:06:54 +0000 (GMT+00:00), "Graham."
wrote:

Wrote in message:
Had a new one last night. Asking for me by full name. "I understand
you have shares in XXXX (a large multinational Co)". "I am calling
from a large USA company who wishes to take this company over."

Me: Please confirm in writing. Caller Hangs up.

Makes a change from BT, MS and the other usual scammers.


I've had the "Would you like to invest in fine wines" a couple of
times.


Never tried it but I'm told 'I'd like you to know that I'm not wearing
any knickers' works quite well.


I ask them what colour knickers they are wearing (if female). Otherwise I
ask them the colour of their boyfriend's knickers.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
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"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 20/03/2019 21:47, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:32:55 +0000, charles wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:
On 20/03/2019 16:15, charles wrote:
In article , Mark
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:16:21 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:20:36 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
After the number of nuisance calls my phone system was blocking,
fell to almost no calls, there has been a sudden increase in
their number in the past few days. 10 such calls yesterday
blocked, all supposedly
from different spoofed numbers.

They do like to waste their time.

Apparently my Internet service is compromised! Recorded
announcement so I suppose the only cost is the call charge.

I have also had a few 'This is Microsoft Technical' calls from
India recently and after dispatching one (who was fairly
persistent), also had the 'This is BT Technical, your line is
compromised' recorded message with a press 1 or 2 option.

Never respond to these!

pressing '1' can connect you to a premium rate call number.

That sounds unlikely... Got any supporting evidence?

not in writing, but my ISP owner told me, And I tend to believe him.


I would get a new ISP if I were you. It is patently not true.

Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?


No way for the criminal to do that at the place they are calling.

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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The TrueCall is good in that you enter your phone book and it lets any
on that straight through. Any others have to jump through hoops to
leave a message. Which I'd say no spam caller is going to bother with.
It's also easy to disable - if you simply switch off the mains to it,
it routes the lines straight through. Quicker than entering a code.
Downside is it isn't free.


It is free with a set of BT8500 phones :-)


But can you update your caller list via the web using your computer
keyboard or by copying text? Doing it on a phone keypad can be a PITA.


Why would you want to? With the BT 8500 a couple of key presses will add
someone to your white list. Ditto a couple of presses to add to your black
list. Anyone not blacklisted or whitelisted goes to answerphone. Thats
more than adequate cold call blocking for 99% of folk. I speak as someone
who has a redundant Truecall unit.

Tim

--
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"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 21/03/2019 12:20, charles wrote:
In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:24:07 +0000, charles wrote:


Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?

The system is provided by Kingston Communications - in any case what
has
that got to do with phones - that service comes from BT


Are you *really* asking what VoIP has to do with phones???


MY phone service is not VOIP.


given that the 21cn network has provision for doing POTs via VoIP you
can't be sure of that.

We designed cards for the DSLAMs that could supply xDSL and POTs using
VoIP for the POTs and they were controlled by a soft switch based on
SystemX.

They were to be installed in the cabinets in the streets so BT could sell
the exchange buildings.


Our VDSL2 service doesnt do POTS anymore, its voip
for the voice service if you still want a voice service.

Same with the fiber service.

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On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 06:21:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



Maybe they run a cr@p VoIP system that can?


No way for the criminal to do that at the place they are calling.


Now let's hear YOUR explanation for it, all-knowing, senile Rot! VBG

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
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On 20/03/2019 13:02, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:20:36 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
After the number of nuisance calls my phone system was blocking, fell
to almost no calls, there has been a sudden increase in their number in
the past few days. 10 such calls yesterday blocked, all supposedly from
different spoofed numbers.

They do like to waste their time.


Apparently my Internet service is compromised! Recorded announcement so
I suppose the only cost is the call charge.


I told them to fix it asap as I will be looking for compensation for
each day I am without service.

My wife got one the other day. He wanted to know how many blue lights
were on the router. "None. They're green" she replied. He rang off.

(actually the router _does_ have blue lights, but she must have looked
at the modem)

Andy
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On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 07:20:28 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Our VDSL2 service doesn¢t do POTS anym


Nobody gives a **** about what your VDSL2 service does or doesn't, senile
Aussie troll!

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
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"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the
last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff,
usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked
this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


But the call centers don't.



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"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:40:19 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 16:26, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the
last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff,
usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked
this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to
opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80
year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.

UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


How are you going to enforce UK laws on overseas companies?


If the company does business here then
they must have a UK presence, yes?


Not if they are employed to do the call center work.

Therefore fines could be imposed for breaching UK laws.


You can impose anything you like, but there is no way of making them pay
that fine.

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On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:24:24 +1100, Jac Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

If the company does business here then
they must have a UK presence, yes?


Not if they are employed to do the call center work.

Therefore fines could be imposed for breaching UK laws.


You can impose anything you like, but there is no way of making them pay
that fine.


Now ALSO an expert in UK law, senile Ozzie asshole? LMAO!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
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Dave Plowman (News) used his keyboard to write :
But can you update your caller list via the web using your computer
keyboard or by copying text? Doing it on a phone keypad can be a PITA.


Not really, you key in the numbers in the first instance to ring them,
the only extra effort is adding the name. If a regular caller should
ring me, I just save the number and give it a name. I rarely add any to
my call book, so minimal effort.
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On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:09:03 +1100, Jac Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


But the call centers don't.


Of course they do, idiot!

--
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"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
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On 21/03/2019 22:09, Jac Brown wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say,
the last
month or so.
Â*Â* some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff,
usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt outÂ* number to hit, and having
checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to
opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80
year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.


UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


But the call centers don't.


The point is that in virtually every case, they are calling ON BEHALF OF
a UK based company (there'd be no point in a non-UK company offering to
fit a new kitchen for instance) and the law needs to cover the UK based
company that has contracted the overseas call centre to make the calls
for them.

SteveW


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On 22/03/2019 09:16, Steve Walker wrote:
The point is that in virtually every case, they are calling ON BEHALF OF
a UK based company (there'd be no point in a non-UK company offering to
fit a new kitchen for instance) and the law needs to cover the UK based
company that has contracted the overseas call centre to make the calls
for them.


Unfortunately that doesnt make jack **** of difference.

Renewable UK lies through its teeth and makes false claims and lobbies
the government using false information, on behalf of all its members who
are nearly all UK companies, but it cant be held to account becaus it is
POLITICAL.

Using arms length companies to do dirty deals... is standard practice.

And buying dodgy goods from people you didn't explicitly set up is even
more so

"We bought what we thought was a proper legally obtained mailing list
her honner!"

Plausible deniability.

Once my comany was approached by "Siemens". well they said they were
Siemens, and they were registereed in SWITZERLAND as Siemens Switzerland
- to supply some Cisco routers.

Why I asked my business parmner, didnt they go straight to Cisco?
And who were Siemens, Switzerland anyway?

Then the penny dropped as my S African apartheid experiuence kicked in.
These Ciscos were for someone under US embargo. Iran probably. And their
credentials might fool a little greedy company, but not Cisco. The
company was a deliberate fake setup to facilitate this. Whether uit was
a genuine subsidiary of Siemens as they claimed, or not, I never discovered.

There was no profit in it anyway, so we told them to **** off.


--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

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On 21/03/2019 16:42, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:40:19 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 16:26, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the last
month or so.
some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out number to hit, and having checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.

UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


How are you going to enforce UK laws on overseas companies?


If the company does business here then they must have a UK presence,
yes?


No. What kind of business presence does a scammer require in the UK to
carry out scams by phone here?

Therefore fines could be imposed for breaching UK laws.


I can sure a scam outfit in Kolkata will be quaking in its boots. Lets
just hope they are not the kind of naughty people who would not pay a
fine! (assuming you can identify who they are)

One form of direct action you can take here, is to identify the VoIP
operator that is providing call termination services in the UK and get
them to remove or block their accounts. This is something that they tend
to do fairly regularly anyway, since the scammers quite often avoid
paying them, and they are also quite responsive to fraud reports.

However there are hundreds of providers to choose from and the scammers
will just rotate through new ones every so often, making sure they
always have a handful of working services available to use.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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On 21/03/2019 17:21, Steve Walker wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:44, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:26:52 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say,
the last
month or so.
Â*Â*Â* some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell
stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt outÂ* number to hit, and having
checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to
opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80
year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.

UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.


Depends what you mean by 'do business'.Â* If they have a branch or
office in the UK, I agree with you but if they are based abroad and
phoning UK numbers, I don't see how that would work.Â* You can't get
somebody extradited for an alleged crime that took place outside the
jurisdiction.Â* By that logic, if someone used a clone of my credit
card in Hong Kong, they could be brought to court and prosecuted in
the UK.Â* How would that work?Â* Extraordinary rendition?


How many nuisance calls have you received where the services or goods
being offered are being advertised for a company that does not have a UK
presence? I've not had one. They have all been for double glazing, new
boilers, new kitchens, accident compensation, etc., where there is a
clear UK presence that is simply using overseas call centres to get
around the UK laws.


Registering with the telephone preference service will knock out the
majority of legit uk based cold callers. For the few that still ring,
simply mentioning they are ringing a TPS listed number makes them vanish
very quickly.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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On 21/03/2019 16:41, Steve Walker wrote:
On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say, the
last
month or so.
Â*Â* some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell stuff,
usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt outÂ* number to hit, and having checked
this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80 year
old, rotary dial phone!


IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


The law may say that, but the phone calls, still say something like,
"Press 8 to be removed from our database" and when over a period of 6 or
7 weeks, you have received 10 phonecalls from the same company and don't
have a tone dial on the phone you are answering with, it gets damned
annoying!


Would it be less annoying if you had a tone dial phone, still got the
same 10 calls, even though you pressed 8 every time?

(or more likely got more than 10 calls since you have now verified that
the number they are calling is actually being answered and listened to
by a human, and so is actually more valuable to a cold caller than an
unverified number!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:55:07 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 17:21, Steve Walker wrote:
On 21/03/2019 16:44, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:26:52 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 16:07:42 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 13:49, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 13:08:38 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/03/2019 08:19, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've noticed a gradual rise to mobile numbers as well over say,
the last
month or so.
*** some are not spoofed but genuine chancers trying to sell
stuff, usually
some financial service or crap junk from China.

At least some do have an opt out* number to hit, and having
checked this
against charges, it seems to be legitimate and worked.

Those opt-outs should be changed to opt-ins - it's very hard to
opt-out
when you've picked up the landline on an only slightly updated, 80
year
old, rotary dial phone!

IIRC the law says that it must be "opt-in" not "opt-out".


UK law doesn't apply to other countries so they can still phone you.

UK law should apply to companies that do business in the UK.

Depends what you mean by 'do business'.* If they have a branch or
office in the UK, I agree with you but if they are based abroad and
phoning UK numbers, I don't see how that would work.* You can't get
somebody extradited for an alleged crime that took place outside the
jurisdiction.* By that logic, if someone used a clone of my credit
card in Hong Kong, they could be brought to court and prosecuted in
the UK.* How would that work?* Extraordinary rendition?


How many nuisance calls have you received where the services or goods
being offered are being advertised for a company that does not have a UK
presence? I've not had one. They have all been for double glazing, new
boilers, new kitchens, accident compensation, etc., where there is a
clear UK presence that is simply using overseas call centres to get
around the UK laws.


Registering with the telephone preference service will knock out the
majority of legit uk based cold callers. For the few that still ring,
simply mentioning they are ringing a TPS listed number makes them vanish
very quickly.


Unfortunately, legit UK based callers seem to be the minority. The
biggest number seem to be automated followed by calls with the
character of the 'sub-continent'.
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