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Default Firewood moisture content


Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim

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On 17 Mar 2019 15:28:44 GMT, Tim+ wrote:


Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim


In short No!

A DMM cannot even measure damp accurately, there are too many
variables.

Density is your best bet.

weigh a fresh log, measure it, plane it or cut it to increase the
surface area, stick it in a microwave on defrost for a few hours,
weighing it until there is no significant reduction in reading.

Now you can do things by the ton if you wish using a winch and an
FIBC, or if you want to get really technical go for the ureka thing on
bathnight.

Having got your start weight, just bide your time and weigh again in
about two years if it's logs for a fire.

Tip! If married the FIBC approach is desireable.
If Married and bath night is a "social occasion" then the FIBC
approach is mandatory


AB
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"Tim+" wrote in message
...

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter?


Nope, it varies too much with the type of wood and
what you do with the probes.

If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a
fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.


No, because it varies so much with the wood and it
isnt just the distance that matters

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On 17 Mar 2019 15:28:44 GMT
Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

"Proper" moisture meters are just guessing, sometimes wildly.
Take a representative bit of your firewood, weigh it accurately and
stick it in an oven on low heat for a few days then weigh it again
(after it has cooled). The difference is how much moisture it's lost (it
probably won't be completely dry, but it will be mostly, probably).

You could try measuring resistance before and after drying to give
some indication, but it probably won't be very repeatable - apart from
anything else you're only measuring the surface, unless you want to
chop it into 10mm cubes and measure the whole lot in each three
directions ...

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On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 17:47:04 +0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

On 17 Mar 2019 15:28:44 GMT
Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

"Proper" moisture meters are just guessing, sometimes wildly.
Take a representative bit of your firewood, weigh it accurately and
stick it in an oven on low heat for a few days then weigh it again
(after it has cooled). The difference is how much moisture it's lost (it
probably won't be completely dry, but it will be mostly, probably).


Do you re-read your drivel?

"Weigh it accurately" "Probably completely dry"

The number of clowns posting to theis NG when they haven't a clue
never fails to amaze me.


You could try measuring resistance before and after drying to give
some indication, but it probably won't be very repeatable - apart from
anything else you're only measuring the surface, unless you want to
chop it into 10mm cubes and measure the whole lot in each three
directions ...


Resistance means nothing. Forget it as far as wood goes.

Oven drying isn't linear. "Probably wont be completely dry" is an
uncertainty that can be removed for all practical purposes.

To dry wood to the point where you have a "dry datum" needs a bit of
certainty and it is readily achieved by increasing the surface area.
Even then an assumption has to be made that the rest of the wood was
of the same type, cut at the same time etc. But at least the
representative sample has been verified. To verify the sample needs a
number of measurements ideally, being a natural event the moisture
loss will be exponential.

AB


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Rob Morley wrote:
On 17 Mar 2019 15:28:44 GMT
Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

"Proper" moisture meters are just guessing, sometimes wildly.
Take a representative bit of your firewood, weigh it accurately and
stick it in an oven on low heat for a few days then weigh it again
(after it has cooled). The difference is how much moisture it's lost (it
probably won't be completely dry, but it will be mostly, probably).

You could try measuring resistance before and after drying to give
some indication, but it probably won't be very repeatable - apart from
anything else you're only measuring the surface, unless you want to
chop it into 10mm cubes and measure the whole lot in each three
directions ...

There are probably tables to be found somehere that tell one the
relationship between density of wood and its moisture content. It
would be different for different species of course.

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On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:19:44 +0000
Chris Green wrote:

There are probably tables to be found somehere that tell one the
relationship between density of wood and its moisture content. It
would be different for different species of course.

Also probably differs for timber grown in different places and/or at
different times.

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On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 18:44:07 +0000
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:

Do you re-read your drivel?

"Weigh it accurately" "Probably completely dry"


Well yes, you eliminate possible error where you can, but accept that
some things aren't absolute and take account of that.

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Rob Morley wrote:
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:19:44 +0000
Chris Green wrote:

There are probably tables to be found somehere that tell one the
relationship between density of wood and its moisture content. It
would be different for different species of course.

Also probably differs for timber grown in different places and/or at
different times.

Yes, but not wildly I shouldn't think. We're only talking about "dry
enough to burn" here.

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On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 20:14:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:19:44 +0000
Chris Green wrote:

There are probably tables to be found somehere that tell one the
relationship between density of wood and its moisture content. It
would be different for different species of course.

Also probably differs for timber grown in different places and/or at
different times.

Yes, but not wildly I shouldn't think. We're only talking about "dry
enough to burn" here.


Easy to do it right if you are going to embark on the procedure.

From personal experience misjudgement of when wood was dry enough to
burn just relieved me of 2,300 Euro

It was a lot of wood and it wasn't much over a year old, so I have
only one person to blame :-(

AB



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Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 20:14:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:
On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 19:19:44 +0000
Chris Green wrote:

There are probably tables to be found somehere that tell one the
relationship between density of wood and its moisture content. It
would be different for different species of course.

Also probably differs for timber grown in different places and/or at
different times.

Yes, but not wildly I shouldn't think. We're only talking about "dry
enough to burn" here.


Easy to do it right if you are going to embark on the procedure.

From personal experience misjudgement of when wood was dry enough to
burn just relieved me of 2,300 Euro

It was a lot of wood and it wasn't much over a year old, so I have
only one person to blame :-(

However you only need to keep it for a while and then it's OK to burn.

--
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On 17 Mar 2019 15:28:44 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a
fixed distance, but I could be wrong.


Pretty much. Make upa jig to hold the DMM probes a fixed distance
apart and measure a few logs that have been inside next to the stove
(that's been on or in a room that is heated) for a few weeks. They'll
be "dry". Compare those numbers with the numbers you get from logs in
the outdoor log store. You'll get a "feel" for what is "dry" and what
is "not so dry", which is all a "firewood moisture meter" in effect
does.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.
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Do not a lot of them actually need a specific contact area as well or even a
probe that one inserts into the substance?
Brian

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"Tim+" wrote in message
...

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a
fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim

--
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On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:00:40 +1100, FMurtz wrote:

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


'cause it takes lot of energy to vapourise water. Energy (heat) that
goes straight up the chimney entrained in the the water vapour.

--
Cheers
Dave.





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FMurtz wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.


Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Maybe, but environmental legislation is on it way to control the
burning of damp wood.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.
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On Monday, 18 March 2019 11:05:12 UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Maybe, but environmental legislation is on it way to control the
burning of damp wood.

Legislating for something that is difficult to measure easily is
going to be interesting.

John
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FMurtz wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Reduced heat output and increases creosote/tar deposition in your chimney.
Not always easy to sweep out. Less than 20% moisture seems to be a
pretty universal recommendation for all wood burners.

Tim

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On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:00:40 +1100
FMurtz wrote:

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how
wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


AIUI can cause problems with deposits/corrosion in the flue.




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On 18/03/2019 19:26, Rob Morley wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:00:40 +1100
FMurtz wrote:

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how
wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


AIUI can cause problems with deposits/corrosion in the flue.


yes, it can. Hence the move to insulated flues.


--
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let them."


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On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a
fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Depends how much you enjoy spectacular chimney fires when the tars and
oils that condense out in the flue decide to catch light. Wet wood
wastes a lot of energy boiling off its water content to no good end.

Most people round here have a wood burner to heat their home not to just
look pretty. It makes sense to season timber for burning at least 2
years and leave it to warm by the fireside for a while prior to burning.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
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On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include tars -
this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.

Andy
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On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how
wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include tars -
this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.

Andy


but the flames light up the yard so nicely
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On 18/03/2019 21:50, % wrote:
On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how
wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include tars
- this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.


but the flames light up the yard so nicely


A wood tar chimney fire tends to burn with a pale blue flame and a
moderate amount of noise. Anyone burning wet wood deserves what they
get. They are likely not to bother sweeping the chimney either.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown


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On 19/03/2019 08:34, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/03/2019 21:50, % wrote:
On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how
wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.

Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include
tars - this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.


but the flames light up the yard so nicely


A wood tar chimney fire tends to burn with a pale blue flame and a
moderate amount of noise. Anyone burning wet wood deserves what they
get. They are likely not to bother sweeping the chimney either.

Oh I burn wettish wood when I have to, but I keep my chimneys clean
these days. Miust have had about 4-5 chimney fires in my time

Apropos of not much I have a vivid recollection of walking down the
steet at night in Belsize park and seeing the wall of the flat I was
sharing growing red hot...from an open fire, burning skip rubbish..



--
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Confucius
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Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/03/2019 21:50, % wrote:
On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how
wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.

Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include tars
- this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.


but the flames light up the yard so nicely


A wood tar chimney fire tends to burn with a pale blue flame and a
moderate amount of noise. Anyone burning wet wood deserves what they
get. They are likely not to bother sweeping the chimney either.


Chap down the road burns quite a lot that he gathers on his daily walk
through the wooded area around here,
after winds like we have had this week he takes a wheel barrow and a saw.
To be fair to him he has his own brushes and does the the lined flu once a
month.
Larger limbs and branches he does turn into logs and keeps them for two
years and some of that he has bought from the landowner where it it has
fallen but he reckons that the daily collection of smaller stuff amounts to
about a third of his consumption with consequent savings.

Being retired he had the time and it is almost a hobby for him, before he
was a delivery driver for a builders merchant and burnt a lot of pallets so
their dryness counteracted some of the green branches when mixed.
His moan now after being retired for 3 years is that he has now moved into
the nobody down there knows me anymore category and they wont let him
have any now. So for the first time for years he got some coal product in .
I always thought was the worst combination of all due to the different
substances condensing
out and creating quite a corrosive mix but he is not the sort of bloke to
listen to things like that, and with a wife
who has just had a stroke needs to keep the house warmer and has less time
to gather his wood.

This is a country area so it is not too bad but the powers that be can
legislate against various fuels as much as they like but if policies make
electricity etc unaffordable we will see a lot more of people making
homemade stoves and opening up long disused chimneys and trying to keep the
use of them clandestine while they burn
rubbish from skip diving etc in towns and cities. That will cause a lot of
problems and fires and whatever the authorities say if they cant stop
visiting workers living in garden sheds turned into bunk houses they wont
be able to stop every illegal fireplace.

GH

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In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 19/03/2019 08:34, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/03/2019 21:50, % wrote:
On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter
how wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out


Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include
tars - this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.

but the flames light up the yard so nicely

A wood tar chimney fire tends to burn with a pale blue flame and a
moderate amount of noise. Anyone burning wet wood deserves what they
get. They are likely not to bother sweeping the chimney either.

Oh I burn wettish wood when I have to, but I keep my chimneys clean
these days. Miust have had about 4-5 chimney fires in my time

Apropos of not much I have a vivid recollection of walking down the
steet at night in Belsize park and seeing the wall of the flat I was
sharing growing red hot...from an open fire, burning skip rubbish..


Not advice or recommendation but my log burner has been in Winter use
since 2009 without a chimney clean.
7" insulated liner.
I have looked down the top and shone a camera/light up the bottom and
found about 5mm of grey *fluff* attached to the walls. There seems
little point in brushing this out.
Mind, I have only ever burned furniture grade Oak:-)




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On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 17:50:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

You can walk around towns these days and smell coal buring in open
fires.


Still winters day and there is a thick pall of coal smoke sitting
over Middleton-in Teesdale. No mains gas, nearly every house has a
coal fire...

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Dave.



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On 19/03/2019 09:52, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 19/03/2019 08:34, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/03/2019 21:50, % wrote:
On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:
On 18/03/2019 05:00, FMurtz wrote:
Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter
how* wet the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out

Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include
tars - this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.

but the flames light up the yard so nicely
*A wood tar chimney fire tends to burn with a pale blue flame and a
moderate amount of noise. Anyone burning wet wood deserves what they
get. They are likely not to bother sweeping the chimney either.

Oh I burn wettish wood when I have to, but I keep my chimneys clean
these days.* Miust have had about 4-5 chimney fires in my time

Apropos of not much I have a vivid recollection of walking down the
steet at night in Belsize park and seeing the wall of the flat* I was
sharing growing red hot...from an open fire, burning skip rubbish..


That is impressive. I have seen it discolour the wallpaper in bedrooms.

Not advice or recommendation but my log burner has been in Winter use
since 2009 without a chimney clean.
7" insulated liner.
I have looked down the top and shone a camera/light up the bottom and
found about 5mm of grey *fluff* attached to the walls. There seems
little point in brushing this out.
Mind, I have only ever burned furniture grade Oak:-)


Mine burns mostly dry wood and some coal. The grate is multi-fuel. I
sweep it once a year before serious use. It has a 5" insulated liner.
Only ever get grey fluffy stuff but if you leave it for too long one day
you will get an uncontrolled collapse of the stuff down the pipe.

--
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On 18/03/2019 21:50, % wrote:
On 2019-03-18 2:41 p.m., Vir Campestris wrote:


Damp wood results in condensation in the flue. Combined with the
products of the lower temperature combustion - which will include tars
- this can be a bit nasty for the poor old flue.


but the flames light up the yard so nicely


We have a thatched roof. I'll use dry wood thanks!

Andy
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On Monday, 18 March 2019 05:00:53 UTC, FMurtz wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

Can you estimate this with an ordinary multimeter? If so, what sort of
figures would indicate a moisture level below 20%?

I assume meters made for the purpose just measure resistance across a fixed
distance, but I could be wrong.

Tim

Why does it matter? I have a wood heater and it does not matter how wet
the wood is once you have started the fire, It dries out quickly.


It also produces a lot less heat and more air pollution.
(Any water present has to be evaporated off before it can burn.)
Tars up the chimney and increases chance of chimney fire.




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