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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a spare position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this slot would not be acceptable practice?

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected side of the CU, and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A outlet next to the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need to add the induction hob this alone should be a reason to update the CU, as that socket isn't protected by the RCD? Ignore the water heater note - the immersion heater is no longer connected.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the kitchen? Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 02:22:09 -0700, Kevin H wrote:

New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas
hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU
(photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a spare
position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this slot
would not be acceptable practice?


There are RCBOs available for that board. Probably secondhand, but they
are available.
You have one/two CB's there that arent a good fit, maybe look to get them
changed, they arent expensive.

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected side
of the CU, and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A outlet
next to the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need to add the
induction hob this alone should be a reason to update the CU, as that
socket isn't protected by the RCD? Ignore the water heater note - the
immersion heater is no longer connected.


Like for like change, so you could use the existing arrangement. You need
to take into account the Manufacturers (of the hob) instructions, if they
call for a RCD, then it is prudent to fit one.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the
kitchen? Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.


No reason not to, but no reason to fit 10mm really, unless you are
expecting to upgrade to 50 amps or so in the future, or, it is run in
insulation.
4mm T&E may be enough, it can hold 37A clipped direct or buried in a
masonry wall.

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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 09:22, Kevin H wrote:

New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a
gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the
CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a


It may be old(ish) but its a decent brand and appears to be in good
order. (although that non Mem/Eaton water heater MCB does not fit that
well, and leaves a larger than desirable gap in the facia)

spare position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this
slot would not be acceptable practice?


You appear to already have a cooker circuit there with a 32A MCB on it.
Any reason why you are not using that?

If you use that then its a like for like swap of appliance, and you
don't need to meet new requirements for cable protection.

If you want a completely new circuit, then looking to see if there is a
RCBO that will fit that CU might be a more pragmatic answer. (especially
with the space afforded by removing the water heater MCB - so even a
double module RCBO would be ok).

(Another option for more RCD space would be to get a longer bus bar for
the RCD side, and shorted the non RCD side, so you move the split to the
right a bit - but the RCBO would be a better choice IMHO).

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected
side of the CU,


With a single RCD "split load" installation like that, its quite common
to want the cooker on the non RCD side. Cookers (and anything else with
a mineral insulated heating elements in close proximity to moisture) are
a common source of higher earth leakage currents that are prone to
"sensitising" RCDs or even nuisance tripping them. Also there are not
many likely electric shock scenarios with a bit of fixed equipment like
a cooker.

and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A
outlet next to the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need
to add the induction hob this alone should be a reason to update the
CU, as that socket isn't protected by the RCD?


Its a reason to get shot of the combined "cooker point". Since the
socket really would benefit from RCD protection, and it also reduces the
nominal capacity of the circuit by 5A [1]

[1] http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Diversity

Ignore the water
heater note - the immersion heater is no longer connected.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the
kitchen? Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.


Nothing inherently wrong with it, although it would likely be overkill
unless you have many de-rating factors to contend with. 6mm^2 is more
commonly used, and has the benefit of being easier to work with.


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 09:22, Kevin H wrote:
New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)


I would say a good move. Easy to control and keep clean. Although I grew
up with a gas cooker I now find them quite alarming to use. There was
one running on Calor gas in a holiday home we quite often stayed at.

The four ring Bosch Induction hob I bought a couple of years ago has
three max current settings, 20A, 16A and 13A. The seller gave me £30
for the old hob, so the net cost was £300. I bought a similar Bosch hob
15 years ago. It cost me well over £400 and Mr Bosch had to come and
change the circuit boards after a couple of weeks.


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On Sunday, 17 March 2019 13:12:36 UTC, John Rumm wrote:


You appear to already have a cooker circuit there with a 32A MCB on it.
Any reason why you are not using that?


We're keeping a built in cooker which is on the other side of the kitchen. I thought that and the hob would be asking too much. I've not checked to see what cable is used for the existing cooker. I'll check this and the rating for the cooker. That said today for example I was using two fan ovens and three gas rings when cooking sunday lunch.


If you want a completely new circuit, then looking to see if there is a
RCBO that will fit that CU might be a more pragmatic answer. (especially
with the space afforded by removing the water heater MCB - so even a
double module RCBO would be ok).

As Alan has pointed out, looks like MCBOs are still available, but at £30-40 each. Two of these would not be far off a new CU.


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 13:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/03/2019 09:22, Kevin H wrote:

New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a
gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the
CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a


It may be old(ish) but its a decent brand and appears to be in good
order. (although that non Mem/Eaton water heater MCB does not fit that
well, and leaves a larger than desirable gap in the facia)

spare position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this
slot would not be acceptable practice?


You appear to already have a cooker circuit there with a 32A MCB on it.
Any reason why you are not using that?

If you use that then its a like for like swap of appliance, and you
don't need to meet new requirements for cable protection.

If you want a completely new circuit, then looking to see if there is a
RCBO that will fit that CU might be a more pragmatic answer. (especially
with the space afforded by removing the water heater MCB - so even a
double module RCBO would be ok).

(Another option for more RCD space would be to get a longer bus bar for
the RCD side, and shorted the non RCD side, so you move the split to the
right a bit - but the RCBO would be a better choice IMHO).


Sorry John but that's not going to work on the Memera 2000.

They are a fixed bus bar CU and that is not a spare way next to the main
switch but a deliberate unusable blank..

A single module RCBO might work.

Cheers


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 19:17, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2019 13:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/03/2019 09:22, Kevin H wrote:

New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a
gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the
CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a


It may be old(ish) but its a decent brand and appears to be in good
order. (although that non Mem/Eaton water heater MCB does not fit that
well, and leaves a larger than desirable gap in the facia)

spare position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this
slot would not be acceptable practice?


You appear to already have a cooker circuit there with a 32A MCB on
it. Any reason why you are not using that?

If you use that then its a like for like swap of appliance, and you
don't need to meet new requirements for cable protection.

If you want a completely new circuit, then looking to see if there is
a RCBO that will fit that CU might be a more pragmatic answer.
(especially with the space afforded by removing the water heater MCB -
so even a double module RCBO would be ok).

(Another option for more RCD space would be to get a longer bus bar
for the RCD side, and shorted the non RCD side, so you move the split
to the right a bit - but the RCBO would be a better choice IMHO).


Sorry John but that's not going to work on the Memera 2000.

They are a fixed bus bar CU and that is not a spare way next to the main
switch but a deliberate unusable blank..


ok that makes it harder :-)

Although one could replace the existing cooker and water heater MCBs to
get two free adjacent ways.

That could allow a single double width RCBO to be sized to satisfy the
diverse load of both cookers.

A single module RCBO might work.


I don't recall having those CUs open (at least not the plastic version),
how much height is there available inside?



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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 19:59, John Rumm wrote:

I don't recall having those CUs open (at least not the plastic version),
how much height is there available inside?



Bugger all.

Now if the OP was considering a DIY CU swap then why not do it now?

Metal clad dual RCD (or RCBOs if funds allow).




--
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On Sunday, 17 March 2019 20:54:00 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2019 19:59, John Rumm wrote:

I don't recall having those CUs open (at least not the plastic version),
how much height is there available inside?



Bugger all.

Now if the OP was considering a DIY CU swap then why not do it now?

Metal clad dual RCD (or RCBOs if funds allow).




--
Adam


A new kitchen is looking like 8k (units, couple of appliances, plastering, lighting and flooring). Spending a couple of hundred upgrading the CU to be future proof for another 20 years would seem like a sensible investment.

Any recommendations for which CU to choose? Also, you can't do a job like this without buying some new kit. Would there be one thing that would make the CU swap easier for a mostly competent DIYer?
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 22:17, Kevin H wrote:
On Sunday, 17 March 2019 20:54:00 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2019 19:59, John Rumm wrote:

I don't recall having those CUs open (at least not the plastic
version), how much height is there available inside?



Bugger all.

Now if the OP was considering a DIY CU swap then why not do it
now?

Metal clad dual RCD (or RCBOs if funds allow).




-- Adam


A new kitchen is looking like 8k (units, couple of appliances,
plastering, lighting and flooring). Spending a couple of hundred
upgrading the CU to be future proof for another 20 years would seem
like a sensible investment.

Any recommendations for which CU to choose? Also, you can't do a job
like this without buying some new kit. Would there be one thing that
would make the CU swap easier for a mostly competent DIYer?


What kind of test gear have you got?


--
Cheers,

John.

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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On Monday, 18 March 2019 01:52:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

What kind of test gear have you got?

Just a Fluke DMM. I need to do some more homework but this sort of thing is likely to take me to the edge of my comfort zone. Might be worth getting it done by a Pro...
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

I've often wondered something about these hobs, do they have any inductive
effects, ie when switched off is there a pulse from the coil or whatever it
is?
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Kevin H" wrote in message
...
New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas hob
with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU (photo he
https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a spare
position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this slot would
not be acceptable practice?

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected side of
the CU, and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A outlet next to
the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need to add the induction
hob this alone should be a reason to update the CU, as that socket isn't
protected by the RCD? Ignore the water heater note - the immersion heater is
no longer connected.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the kitchen?
Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 09:22, Kevin H wrote:
New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a spare position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this slot would not be acceptable practice?

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected side of the CU, and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A outlet next to the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need to add the induction hob this alone should be a reason to update the CU, as that socket isn't protected by the RCD? Ignore the water heater note - the immersion heater is no longer connected.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the kitchen? Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.



We ended up with three 32A runs : Induction Hob, Main Fan Oven, Combi
Microwave/fan oven. While the last one could, perhaps, have just
plugged into a socket on the ring main, the numbers were very close.

The extra cost of a new CU and a couple of cable runs (there was one in
place) was trivial in the overall price.

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion heater
as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our heating, not
having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

Brian Gaff wrote

I've often wondered something about these hobs, do they have any inductive
effects, ie when switched off is there a pulse from the coil or whatever
it is?


No they don’t.

"Kevin H" wrote in message
...
New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas hob
with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU (photo
he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a spare
position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this slot would
not be acceptable practice?

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected side of
the CU, and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A outlet next to
the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need to add the induction
hob this alone should be a reason to update the CU, as that socket isn't
protected by the RCD? Ignore the water heater note - the immersion heater
is no longer connected.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the
kitchen? Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.

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On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 19:59:33 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


No they don¢t.


Did you manage to get a senile climax again, senile asshole? LOL

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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 18/03/2019 07:29, Kevin H wrote:
On Monday, 18 March 2019 01:52:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

What kind of test gear have you got?

Just a Fluke DMM. I need to do some more homework but this sort of
thing is likely to take me to the edge of my comfort zone. Might be
worth getting it done by a Pro...


Its one of those jobs, that is not that difficult, if you are methodical
and take your time. You can manage basic tests with a DMM along the way,
although you won't be able to capture a full set of tests as you go
(e.g. you could do circuit impedance tests, but not insulation
resistance or RCD tests). Ultimately that would leave you with an
installation no worse than current, so long as you are not bothered by
lack of paperwork etc.

Have a look through this as a bit of background:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/..._consumer_unit



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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 17/03/2019 22:17, Kevin H wrote:
On Sunday, 17 March 2019 20:54:00 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2019 19:59, John Rumm wrote:

I don't recall having those CUs open (at least not the plastic version),
how much height is there available inside?



Bugger all.

Now if the OP was considering a DIY CU swap then why not do it now?

Metal clad dual RCD (or RCBOs if funds allow).




--
Adam


A new kitchen is looking like 8k (units, couple of appliances, plastering, lighting and flooring). Spending a couple of hundred upgrading the CU to be future proof for another 20 years would seem like a sensible investment.

Any recommendations for which CU to choose? Also, you can't do a job like this without buying some new kit. Would there be one thing that would make the CU swap easier for a mostly competent DIYer?



Post a photo of the inside of your CU. It will help me decide which new
CU has the layout that would be most suitable as a replacement without
extending the cables.

--
Adam
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On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion heater
as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our heating, not
having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.



That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


--


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On Monday, 18 March 2019 19:05:13 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2019 22:17, Kevin H wrote:
On Sunday, 17 March 2019 20:54:00 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 17/03/2019 19:59, John Rumm wrote:

I don't recall having those CUs open (at least not the plastic version),
how much height is there available inside?


Bugger all.

Now if the OP was considering a DIY CU swap then why not do it now?

Metal clad dual RCD (or RCBOs if funds allow).




--
Adam


A new kitchen is looking like 8k (units, couple of appliances, plastering, lighting and flooring). Spending a couple of hundred upgrading the CU to be future proof for another 20 years would seem like a sensible investment.

Any recommendations for which CU to choose? Also, you can't do a job like this without buying some new kit. Would there be one thing that would make the CU swap easier for a mostly competent DIYer?



Post a photo of the inside of your CU. It will help me decide which new
CU has the layout that would be most suitable as a replacement without
extending the cables.

--
Adam


Adam - thanks. Here you go: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3nLdtryhqLCehi8dA

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On Sunday, 17 March 2019 09:22:12 UTC, Kevin H wrote:

New kitchen planning underway. Looks like we're going to replace a gas hob with an induction hob requiring a 32A connection back to the CU (photo he https://goo.gl/CGJfg3)

The CU is pretty old (1995 when the house was built). There is a spare position but on the non-RCD protected side. I assume using this slot would not be acceptable practice?

I've noticed that the current cooker is also on the non protected side of the CU, and given there is a combined isolation switch/13A outlet next to the cooker I was wondering if regardless of the need to add the induction hob this alone should be a reason to update the CU, as that socket isn't protected by the RCD? Ignore the water heater note - the immersion heater is no longer connected.

A final question. Any reason not to use 10mm on the 10m run to the kitchen? Hob and oven won't be sharing a circuit.


Could you make the non-RCD side into RCDed? Might need to put 2 circuits into one MCB to make that work - I've not looked at your circuit layout but that's often entirely doable.

I'd expect a hob + oven to be ok on 32A due to diversity.


NT


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On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our heating,
not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.



That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


--


Adam


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.

Even if power failed and we had neither boiler nor immersion, we'd still
have 40 gallons of hot water and with care could eke that out for a
couple of days before it became freezing cold to shower.

The house still has the option of using the gas fire and/or portable
electric heaters in the cold months.

We have had our boiler fail a couple of times over the years - just fan
bearings siezing and the backup has proved itself useful until bearing
could be obtained.

SteveW
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On Monday, 18 March 2019 23:35:25 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our heating,
not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.



That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


--


Adam


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.

Even if power failed and we had neither boiler nor immersion, we'd still
have 40 gallons of hot water and with care could eke that out for a
couple of days before it became freezing cold to shower.

The house still has the option of using the gas fire and/or portable
electric heaters in the cold months.

We have had our boiler fail a couple of times over the years - just fan
bearings siezing and the backup has proved itself useful until bearing
could be obtained.

SteveW


I should have made it clear that, whilst I do have an immersion heater in the hot water tank, it is not permanently connected. I have had to use it twice in the last 10 years when the gas valve on the boiler failed. When it has been needed, I've, shall we say, made temporary arrangements to power it..
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On 18/03/2019 23:35, Steve Walker wrote:
On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our
heating, not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.



That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


--


Adam


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.


I have noticed that it seems the option of having a combi *and* a hot
water tank is one that never seems to occur to many people, yet there
are good arguments for it. The tank can be heated from the CH side of
the boiler in the normal way - so you get all the tank advantages. The
boilers DHW side however can then be used to provide mains pressure
showers, and potable hot water to the kitchen etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

Steve Walker Wrote in message:
On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our heating,
not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.



That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


--


Adam


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.

Even if power failed and we had neither boiler nor immersion, we'd still
have 40 gallons of hot water and with care could eke that out for a
couple of days before it became freezing cold to shower.


Shurely after the first 20 gallons had gone the temperature of
your "hot" water would be literally diluted by replacement
incoming mains cold?
Bagsy first shower!


--
Jim K


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 19/03/2019 10:35, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/03/2019 23:35, Steve Walker wrote:
On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our
heating, not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.


That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.


I have noticed that it seems the option of having a combi *and* a hot
water tank is one that never seems to occur to many people, yet there
are good arguments for it. The tank can be heated from the CH side of
the boiler in the normal way - so you get all the tank advantages. The
boilers DHW side however can then be used to provide mains pressure
showers, and potable hot water to the kitchen etc.


That's basically a 'system' boiler. Which can deliver DHW at mains
pressure from the tank if desired.

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Max Demian


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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 19/03/2019 15:33, Max Demian wrote:
On 19/03/2019 10:35, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/03/2019 23:35, Steve Walker wrote:
On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our
heating, not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.


That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.


I have noticed that it seems the option of having a combi *and* a hot
water tank is one that never seems to occur to many people, yet there
are good arguments for it. The tank can be heated from the CH side of
the boiler in the normal way - so you get all the tank advantages. The
boilers DHW side however can then be used to provide mains pressure
showers, and potable hot water to the kitchen etc.


That's basically a 'system' boiler. Which can deliver DHW at mains
pressure from the tank if desired.


A system boiler and combi are indeed similar - in that the system boiler
is typically based on the same platform, and just lacks a diversion
valve and plate heat exchanger.

The main difference in overall system however is that to get mains
pressure showers etc from the system boiler requires an unvented
cylinder or heat bank, which is a fairly substantial additional expense.

Replacing a heating only boiler with a combi and keeping an existing hot
water cylinder can be somewhat more cost effective, and still give some
of the same benefits at the expense of a bit of extra piping.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 18/03/2019 22:00, Kevin H wrote:
On Monday, 18 March 2019 19:05:13 UTC, ARW wrote:



A new kitchen is looking like 8k (units, couple of appliances, plastering, lighting and flooring). Spending a couple of hundred upgrading the CU to be future proof for another 20 years would seem like a sensible investment.

Any recommendations for which CU to choose? Also, you can't do a job like this without buying some new kit. Would there be one thing that would make the CU swap easier for a mostly competent DIYer?



Post a photo of the inside of your CU. It will help me decide which new
CU has the layout that would be most suitable as a replacement without
extending the cables.



Adam - thanks. Here you go: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3nLdtryhqLCehi8dA



You are very lucky. There appears to be an awful lot of spare cable
inside your CU.

I would recommend (if you are prepared to spend a few hundred quid) a BG
CU with all RCBOs. TLC are doing the compact RCBOs for £15.72 but I will
have to search elsewhere for a suitable enclosure.


Is it possible to tell how the cables enter the CU? It looks that they
enter from the rear. If it was possible to bring them down from above it
would help you space them out a little better and move the meter tails
across to the right.


--


Adam
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On 19/03/2019 15:04, Jim K.. wrote:
Steve Walker Wrote in message:
On 18/03/2019 19:11, ARW wrote:
On 18/03/2019 08:26, Brian Reay wrote:

Personally, I'd not feel comfortable without having an immersion
heater as a back up. While we've not had many issues with our heating,
not having hot water for showers etc is a big issue.


That's everyone with a combi boiler up **** creek then.

Apart from the ones with electric showers:-)


--


Adam


The very reason I have resisted changing to a combi-boiler.

Even if power failed and we had neither boiler nor immersion, we'd still
have 40 gallons of hot water and with care could eke that out for a
couple of days before it became freezing cold to shower.


Shurely after the first 20 gallons had gone the temperature of
your "hot" water would be literally diluted by replacement
incoming mains cold?
Bagsy first shower!


Partly. The water forms layers, so the hot sits on top, which is why the
tanks have the cold feed to the bottom and the hot take-off at the top,
but of course there is some mixing and some heat transfer. The point
isn't that we can use all 40 gallons and have piping hot showers, it is
that even into the second day the water temperature remains, if somewhat
cool, at least bearable, whereas a faulty combi will be giving very cold
water from the start.

SteveW
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:27:40 UTC, ARW wrote:


You are very lucky. There appears to be an awful lot of spare cable
inside your CU.

I would recommend (if you are prepared to spend a few hundred quid) a BG
CU with all RCBOs. TLC are doing the compact RCBOs for £15.72 but I will
have to search elsewhere for a suitable enclosure.


Is it possible to tell how the cables enter the CU? It looks that they
enter from the rear. If it was possible to bring them down from above it
would help you space them out a little better and move the meter tails
across to the right.

They all enter from the rear apart from one (connected to the loft) but from what I can see they all then go up so it should be possible to bring them in from above.

What about the BG 10 way enclosure? (https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGSW10.html)

Would give me:

1 Ring
2 Ring
3 Ring
4 Loft (goes to another CU in the loft conversion)
5 Cooker
6 Hob (new)
7 Lighting 1 & 2 (were on separate MCBs)
8 Lighting 3 and smoke (were separate)
9 Immersion heater (less said about this the better)
10 Spare

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On 19/03/2019 15:04, Jim K.. wrote:

Bagsy first shower!


I have first dibs.


--
Adam


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On 20/03/2019 19:54, Kevin H wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:27:40 UTC, ARW wrote:


You are very lucky. There appears to be an awful lot of spare cable
inside your CU.

I would recommend (if you are prepared to spend a few hundred quid) a BG
CU with all RCBOs. TLC are doing the compact RCBOs for £15.72 but I will
have to search elsewhere for a suitable enclosure.


Is it possible to tell how the cables enter the CU? It looks that they
enter from the rear. If it was possible to bring them down from above it
would help you space them out a little better and move the meter tails
across to the right.

They all enter from the rear apart from one (connected to the loft) but from what I can see they all then go up so it should be possible to bring them in from above.

What about the BG 10 way enclosure? (https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGSW10.html)

Would give me:

1 Ring
2 Ring
3 Ring
4 Loft (goes to another CU in the loft conversion)
5 Cooker
6 Hob (new)
7 Lighting 1 & 2 (were on separate MCBs)
8 Lighting 3 and smoke (were separate)
9 Immersion heater (less said about this the better)
10 Spare


I honestly am not sure if that is 10 spare ways or 10 ways with two ways
taken up by the main switch. I'll have a look at BGs web site.

--
Adam
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On 20/03/2019 19:54, Kevin H wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:27:40 UTC, ARW wrote:


Is it possible to tell how the cables enter the CU? It looks that they
enter from the rear. If it was possible to bring them down from above it
would help you space them out a little better and move the meter tails
across to the right.

They all enter from the rear apart from one (connected to the loft) but from what I can see they all then go up so it should be possible to bring them in from above.


If I was doing the CU swap I would try to bring them in from above. Once
you get up to ceiling level you should be able to free them off and put
them in a nice orderly layout.

If you go ahead with it I'll post a few more tips than the wiki article
about real life CU swaps.

--

Adam
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Default New Induction Hob - CU Change Needed?

On Thursday, 21 March 2019 23:18:36 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:54, Kevin H wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:27:40 UTC, ARW wrote:


You are very lucky. There appears to be an awful lot of spare cable
inside your CU.

I would recommend (if you are prepared to spend a few hundred quid) a BG
CU with all RCBOs. TLC are doing the compact RCBOs for £15.72 but I will
have to search elsewhere for a suitable enclosure.


Is it possible to tell how the cables enter the CU? It looks that they
enter from the rear. If it was possible to bring them down from above it
would help you space them out a little better and move the meter tails
across to the right.

They all enter from the rear apart from one (connected to the loft) but from what I can see they all then go up so it should be possible to bring them in from above.

What about the BG 10 way enclosure? (https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGSW10.html)

Would give me:

1 Ring
2 Ring
3 Ring
4 Loft (goes to another CU in the loft conversion)
5 Cooker
6 Hob (new)
7 Lighting 1 & 2 (were on separate MCBs)
8 Lighting 3 and smoke (were separate)
9 Immersion heater (less said about this the better)
10 Spare


I honestly am not sure if that is 10 spare ways or 10 ways with two ways
taken up by the main switch. I'll have a look at BGs web site.

--
Adam


Thanks. BG's site (https://www.bgelectrical.uk/circuit-...consumer-units) says 12 module 10 way with 100A switch for the CFUSW10 CU
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On 22/03/2019 08:30, Kevin H wrote:
On Thursday, 21 March 2019 23:18:36 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 20/03/2019 19:54, Kevin H wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 March 2019 19:27:40 UTC, ARW wrote:


You are very lucky. There appears to be an awful lot of spare cable
inside your CU.

I would recommend (if you are prepared to spend a few hundred quid) a BG
CU with all RCBOs. TLC are doing the compact RCBOs for £15.72 but I will
have to search elsewhere for a suitable enclosure.


Is it possible to tell how the cables enter the CU? It looks that they
enter from the rear. If it was possible to bring them down from above it
would help you space them out a little better and move the meter tails
across to the right.

They all enter from the rear apart from one (connected to the loft) but from what I can see they all then go up so it should be possible to bring them in from above.

What about the BG 10 way enclosure? (https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BGSW10.html)

Would give me:

1 Ring
2 Ring
3 Ring
4 Loft (goes to another CU in the loft conversion)
5 Cooker
6 Hob (new)
7 Lighting 1 & 2 (were on separate MCBs)
8 Lighting 3 and smoke (were separate)
9 Immersion heater (less said about this the better)
10 Spare


I honestly am not sure if that is 10 spare ways or 10 ways with two ways
taken up by the main switch. I'll have a look at BGs web site.

--
Adam


Thanks. BG's site (https://www.bgelectrical.uk/circuit-...consumer-units) says 12 module 10 way with 100A switch for the CFUSW10 CU


Sound ideal. Don't forget to order the grommet strip with your order.

--
Adam
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On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 11:29:13 PM UTC, ARW wrote:

If you go ahead with it I'll post a few more tips than the wiki article
about real life CU swaps.


I'd be interested in that anyway if you have the time? Would it be worth adding to the article?


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On 22/03/2019 20:18, wrote:
On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 11:29:13 PM UTC, ARW wrote:

If you go ahead with it I'll post a few more tips than the wiki article
about real life CU swaps.


I'd be interested in that anyway if you have the time? Would it be worth adding to the article?


John or NT usually add anything worthwhile I post to the wiki.

So here are a couple of tips that would apply if I had more than 2 hours
to swap a CU!

1. Charge up your cordless drills.

2. Start early and give yourself plenty of time.

3. Mark off the live cables with a sharpie pen well before you start,
ideally the day before. I use a series of dashes to identify the circuit
numbers. Write down a schedule of what dashes represent which circuit.
Take a photo.

4. Prep up the new CU as early as you can. Forgot the knockouts that
come with metal clad CUs and get out the jigsaw and make your own. Its
much easier to have a slot instead of a series of holes. If possible do
this the day before and superglue on some grommet strip.

5. Have a supply of spare cable and crimps ready to extend the cables.
If you are running out of time use strip connector and finish off with
crimps another day in your own time without rushing. Or use WAGO.

6. After removing the old CU you should, if required and it is possible,
reorganise the layout of the cables and the tails to suit the layout of
your new CU.

So if fitting a split load CU you would put the upstairs sockets next to
the downstairs lights etc. Prepare your preferred layout to match the
markings you have made on the cables the day before so you can write it
down.

This does not apply to an all RCBO setup (other than the two cables of a
ring might need to be placed next to each other).

In particular to the OPs setup I would not be surprised if all the
cables drop down from the ceiling and could not all be freed up and
organised in any layout he wanted.

7. After organising the layout of the cables tape the ends of each
circuit together ie LNE of upstairs lights or if a ring tape them as a
pair. Labelling the tape also helps as the tape will probably be over
the cable markings.

This will help you get get the cables into the new CU and stop neutral
mix ups

8. Think about the exact positioning of the new CU. If the OPs existing
CU was mounted right up to the ceiling then the front cover would not
fit. Hence it is 5mm below the ceiling. The same might apply to your new
CU. BTDTGTT.

9. If going all RCBO take out an insurance policy when buying the CU. ie
buy a 6A and 32A MCB when you buy the CU. Use them instead of RCBOs if
you have a nuisance trip and it will give you time sort out the cause of
the fault in your own time. If fitting a split load CU you have to leave
a non RCD space available to do this (not all split load CUs have a non
RCD side)

10. The wiki covers the second fix of the CU. However I usually put the
tails, earth and bonding earths in first followed by all the circuits
earths.

11. Go back a week later and recheck the tightness on all the terminals.




--


Adam
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On Saturday, 23 March 2019 09:23:54 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 22/03/2019 20:18, wrote:
On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 11:29:13 PM UTC, ARW wrote:

If you go ahead with it I'll post a few more tips than the wiki article
about real life CU swaps.


I'd be interested in that anyway if you have the time? Would it be worth adding to the article?


John or NT usually add anything worthwhile I post to the wiki.

So here are a couple of tips that would apply if I had more than 2 hours
to swap a CU!

1. Charge up your cordless drills.

2. Start early and give yourself plenty of time.

3. Mark off the live cables with a sharpie pen well before you start,
ideally the day before. I use a series of dashes to identify the circuit
numbers. Write down a schedule of what dashes represent which circuit.
Take a photo.

4. Prep up the new CU as early as you can. Forgot the knockouts that
come with metal clad CUs and get out the jigsaw and make your own. Its
much easier to have a slot instead of a series of holes. If possible do
this the day before and superglue on some grommet strip.

5. Have a supply of spare cable and crimps ready to extend the cables.
If you are running out of time use strip connector and finish off with
crimps another day in your own time without rushing. Or use WAGO.

6. After removing the old CU you should, if required and it is possible,
reorganise the layout of the cables and the tails to suit the layout of
your new CU.

So if fitting a split load CU you would put the upstairs sockets next to
the downstairs lights etc. Prepare your preferred layout to match the
markings you have made on the cables the day before so you can write it
down.

This does not apply to an all RCBO setup (other than the two cables of a
ring might need to be placed next to each other).

In particular to the OPs setup I would not be surprised if all the
cables drop down from the ceiling and could not all be freed up and
organised in any layout he wanted.

7. After organising the layout of the cables tape the ends of each
circuit together ie LNE of upstairs lights or if a ring tape them as a
pair. Labelling the tape also helps as the tape will probably be over
the cable markings.

This will help you get get the cables into the new CU and stop neutral
mix ups

8. Think about the exact positioning of the new CU. If the OPs existing
CU was mounted right up to the ceiling then the front cover would not
fit. Hence it is 5mm below the ceiling. The same might apply to your new
CU. BTDTGTT.

9. If going all RCBO take out an insurance policy when buying the CU. ie
buy a 6A and 32A MCB when you buy the CU. Use them instead of RCBOs if
you have a nuisance trip and it will give you time sort out the cause of
the fault in your own time. If fitting a split load CU you have to leave
a non RCD space available to do this (not all split load CUs have a non
RCD side)

10. The wiki covers the second fix of the CU. However I usually put the
tails, earth and bonding earths in first followed by all the circuits
earths.

11. Go back a week later and recheck the tightness on all the terminals.


And test your ciruits beforehand, so you don't end up with a partly nonfunctional system for a while.


NT
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On Saturday, 23 March 2019 09:23:54 UTC, ARW wrote:

John or NT usually add anything worthwhile I post to the wiki.

So here are a couple of tips that would apply if I had more than 2 hours
to swap a CU!


Great stuff - thanks Adam!
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