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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Terraced Houses
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a
lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction |
#2
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Terraced Houses
DerbyBorn submitted this idea :
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I have not seen that all that much, but where I have seen it, it has usually been because the house is built on a hill side. |
#3
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On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Are we talking of Victorian style houses? In which case the rear room would have been the kitchen diner with a open fire, and what is now the kitchen would have been a scullery. Being wet, it would have been lower than the rest of the house. |
#4
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Terraced Houses
On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I take it by "lower" you mean "lower ceilings". And I've been led to believe that results from the "back additions" being (a) not visible from the road and (b) not where visitors were entertained. Hence it would have been a waste to build them with high ceilings. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#5
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On 14/03/2019 19:00, Fredxx wrote:
On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Are we talking of Victorian style houses? In which case the rear room would have been the kitchen diner with a open fire, and what is now the kitchen would have been a scullery. Being wet, it would have been lower than the rest of the house. Yes, the main body of the house would be suspended wooden floors. IME the back room would be the main living room, the front room kept for best (unused most of the time!), and the kitchen/scullery a step down onto brick or quarry tile on earth. If there was a floor above that, it would have lower ceilings than the rest of the upper floor. I don't know why, but much of the old Victorian housing in Reading is like that. 51.455429° -0.944911° in Google Earth for example, some with a first floor, some without. Cheers -- Clive |
#6
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Terraced Houses
In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Saves bricks and materials. The rear addition usually has lower ceilings. -- *Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#8
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Terraced Houses
On 14/03/2019 19:06, Robin wrote:
On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I take it by "lower" you mean "lower ceilings".Â* And I've been led to believe that results from the "back additions" being (a) not visible from the road and (b) not where visitors were entertained.Â* Hence it would have been a waste to build them with high ceilings. From the ones that I have seen, the floors are solid and lower down, with a step into the kitchen, while the rest of the house has suspended floors. Often there is a cellar under the main house, but not under the original build "extension". SteveW |
#9
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Terraced Houses
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message 2.236... Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction The kitchen scullery had a tiled or bare concrete floor as it was subject to wet. The base of the adjacent dining living room and the front room for that matter were at the same level but with the floorboards took them up a level. The room above the scullery had a sloping roof - sloping to one side or the other and lower than the main roof which limited the ceiling height. michael adams .... |
#10
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Terraced Houses
On 14/03/2019 20:01, Steve Walker wrote:
On 14/03/2019 19:06, Robin wrote: On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I take it by "lower" you mean "lower ceilings".Â* And I've been led to believe that results from the "back additions" being (a) not visible from the road and (b) not where visitors were entertained.Â* Hence it would have been a waste to build them with high ceilings. From the ones that I have seen, the floors are solid and lower down, with a step into the kitchen, while the rest of the house has suspended floors. Often there is a cellar under the main house, but not under the original build "extension". I recognise that as common in Georgian houses (where the kitchen was the servants' domain to be kept apart from the main house) but not in the far more common terraces of Victorian houses for workers. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#11
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On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction What they all said, but it is also commonly related to the lie of the land. In my first house (cul de sac of terraced, late victorian) the road line ran along the ridge so that for houses on both sides the ground fell away from front to rear. The front rooms had suspended floors and high ceilings and was two stories (and two rooms deep), the third set of rooms was three stories but staggered about 4 feet down from the middle ones (or 4 feet up to the top back bedroom, which had sloping ceilings). |
#12
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On Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:51:13 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Good answers to this. I also find the stair-related features interesting in these type of houses. Where you have high ceilings in the main part of the house and then the "tunnel" to the kitchen at the height of the stair-case dogleg (often only at door height). Also sometimes the back offshoot second floor rooms (e.g. bathroom) are at the height of the staircase dogleg, and then a few more steps up to the landing. Where the offshoot has been added there was often originally a nice big window at the back of the house that was turned into a door when the offshoot was added. It all comes down to shoehorning stuff into the relatively small footprint available for housing in this Green Land. I like the Victorian house some family friends lived in. Under the stairs was to be found not the descending steps to a cellar, but another parallel staircase going up to some hidden servant rooms at a lower level than the main house. Simon. |
#13
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On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction For town houses with a lower ground floor below street level at the front and at garden level at the back, the street level was built up from soil removed to level the site. so the back is probably a little lower than the original 'green field' ground level and the front door reaches the built up bank that forms the roadway via a bridge to the retaining wall for the roadway which usually incorporates a coal cellar. For many 18/19th C terraces the Kitchen/back bedroom was an addition and is accessed from the half landing of the original stairway. So it tends to be halfway between the front floor levels. -- djc (–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿) No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree. |
#14
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Terraced Houses
sm_jamieson Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:51:13 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Good answers to this. I also find the stair-related features interesting in these type of houses. Where you have high ceilings in the main part of the house and then the "tunnel" to the kitchen at the height of the stair-case dogleg (often only at door height). Also sometimes the back offshoot second floor rooms (e.g. bathroom) are at the height of the staircase dogleg, and then a few more steps up to the landing. Where the offshoot has been added there was often originally a nice big window at the back of the house that was turned into a door when the offshoot was added. It all comes down to shoehorning stuff into the relatively small footprint available for housing in this Green Land. I like the Victorian house some family friends lived in. Under the stairs was to be found not the descending steps to a cellar, but another parallel staircase going up to some hidden servant rooms at a lower level than the main house. Simon. ?Going up to a lower level? Do you mean "out the back" in less lofty accomodation? -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#15
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Terraced Houses
On 14/03/2019 20:18, Robin wrote:
On 14/03/2019 20:01, Steve Walker wrote: On 14/03/2019 19:06, Robin wrote: On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I take it by "lower" you mean "lower ceilings".Â* And I've been led to believe that results from the "back additions" being (a) not visible from the road and (b) not where visitors were entertained.Â* Hence it would have been a waste to build them with high ceilings. Â*From the ones that I have seen, the floors are solid and lower down, with a step into the kitchen, while the rest of the house has suspended floors. Often there is a cellar under the main house, but not under the original build "extension". I recognise that as common in Georgian houses (where the kitchen was the servants' domain to be kept apart from the main house) but not in the far more common terraces of Victorian houses for workers. Common around here, but just normal terraces not designed for servants - even the small, workers' ones. Just a couple of examples. https://tinyurl.com/y2yfr8sw 2nd house used to belong to my mother's parents. https://tinyurl.com/y5n6or3p No. 9 used to belong to my father's parents. SteveW |
#16
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Terraced Houses
DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction There are variations on this but with the two I own in London on level ground there is step down to the rear kitchen and back room which are on solid ground the rear of the house above is 3 floors the front with a cellar underneath is 2 floors and the roof line is level front to back more rooms in what is from the front a small looking house 4 bed 3 recp, kitchen +box room before you convert the attic and dig out the basement -- |
#17
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Terraced Houses
On Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:51:13 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction It's to do with natural daylight. Terrace houses only have windows front and rear. To illuminate them, windows had to be tall so ceilings also have to be high. Less important in kitchens. Even more so in "back to back" houses. You also find this in buildings with very large rooms. Eg"Stately homes". All to do with there being only very limited artificial lighting. |
#18
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Terraced Houses
Mine is not like that, you are generalising. I mean some are built on hills,
and others have had internal modifications done over the years. It very much depends on when it was built. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "DerbyBorn" wrote in message 2.236... Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction |
#19
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Terraced Houses
There are some in Redhil where the small box room upstairs has a wall that
has an angled bit near the floor over the stairwell to allow taller people to climb the stairs without knocking themselves out. For the want of a few more inches in depth, this would not be required. Mine has this done on ceilings near the eaves to allow the roof to come down almost to the top of the windows upstairs, then there are corner fireplaces huge chimney breasts in two rooms like mine taking up a lot of space, and so on. The building of houses seems sometimes to defy logic, but it obviously made sense at the time! Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... DerbyBorn submitted this idea : Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I have not seen that all that much, but where I have seen it, it has usually been because the house is built on a hill side. |
#20
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Brian Gaff formulated on Friday :
There are some in Redhil where the small box room upstairs has a wall that has an angled bit near the floor over the stairwell to allow taller people to climb the stairs without knocking themselves out. For the want of a few more inches in depth, this would not be required. My semi has the small bedroom over the stair. It has a cupboard space in that bedroom above the stair, the base of which is a few feet up from the bedroom floor. That to allow for extra stair headroom. |
#21
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Terraced Houses
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:51:10 GMT
DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Solid floor for the kitchen and suspended timber floor for the rest of the house? Possibly to give the kitchen range somewhere solid and fireproof to sit on? |
#22
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Terraced Houses
On 14/03/2019 20:01, Steve Walker wrote:
On 14/03/2019 19:06, Robin wrote: On 14/03/2019 18:51, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction I take it by "lower" you mean "lower ceilings".Â* And I've been led to believe that results from the "back additions" being (a) not visible from the road and (b) not where visitors were entertained.Â* Hence it would have been a waste to build them with high ceilings. From the ones that I have seen, the floors are solid and lower down, with a step into the kitchen, while the rest of the house has suspended floors. Often there is a cellar under the main house, but not under the original build "extension". It's not uncommon around here (Yorkshire) for the front half of the house to have a suspended floor (sometimes with a cellar) and the back half of the house to be a concrete floor. And then the step down to the kitchen at the rear. -- Adam |
#23
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Terraced Houses
In message , ARW
writes It's not uncommon around here (Yorkshire) for the front half of the house to have a suspended floor (sometimes with a cellar) and the back half of the house to be a concrete floor. And then the step down to the kitchen at the rear. This house, Victorian detached c1880, Aberdeenshire, has 4 steps up to the front door outside, then the public (reception) rooms on that level. Three steps down to a corridor which runs to the kitchen at the rear (wooden floor, with granite where the range was). One step down to the scullery behind the kitchen. Solid floor. Stairs from the front lead up, ten steps to a half landing, turn 180 degrees, then a further ten steps up to the first floor bedrooms. However, from the half landing a short corridor leads to bathroom, airing cupboard and two rear bedrooms over the kitchen and scullery, with a further (steep) staircase from the back room down to the scullery. Presumably the maid's quarters. -- Graeme |
#24
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Terraced Houses
Rob Morley Wrote in message:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:51:10 GMT DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Solid floor for the kitchen and suspended timber floor for the rest of the house? Possibly to give the kitchen range somewhere solid and fireproof to sit on? and easier to mop out/make a mess in. -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#25
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In article ,
Jim K.. wrote: Rob Morley Wrote in message: On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:51:10 GMT DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Solid floor for the kitchen and suspended timber floor for the rest of the house? Possibly to give the kitchen range somewhere solid and fireproof to sit on? and easier to mop out/make a mess in. In my Victorian house, the kitchen range was in the kitchen, with a suspended wood floor. At the end of the rear extension there was a scullery, with a concrete floor. That room not big enough for a range. -- *I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#26
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Terraced Houses
On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 10:38:05 PM UTC, JimK wrote:
sm_jamieson Wrote in message: On Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:51:13 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote: Why is the bit that usually has the kitchen and small back bedroom at a lower level than the rest of the house? Was it just cost saving or was it to so with roof construction Good answers to this. I also find the stair-related features interesting in these type of houses. Where you have high ceilings in the main part of the house and then the "tunnel" to the kitchen at the height of the stair-case dogleg (often only at door height). Also sometimes the back offshoot second floor rooms (e.g. bathroom) are at the height of the staircase dogleg, and then a few more steps up to the landing. Where the offshoot has been added there was often originally a nice big window at the back of the house that was turned into a door when the offshoot was added. It all comes down to shoehorning stuff into the relatively small footprint available for housing in this Green Land. I like the Victorian house some family friends lived in. Under the stairs was to be found not the descending steps to a cellar, but another parallel staircase going up to some hidden servant rooms at a lower level than the main house. Simon. ?Going up to a lower level? Do you mean "out the back" in less lofty accomodation? -- Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. Simon. |
#27
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Terraced Houses
In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote: Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. In my house, judging by the remains of bell circuits, the servant's room was the attic. -- *It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#28
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On 18/03/2019 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , sm_jamieson wrote: Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. In my house, judging by the remains of bell circuits, the servant's room was the attic. They work in the basement and sleep in the attic. The Family might want something in the middle of the night. -- Max Demian |
#29
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"Max Demian" wrote in message o.uk... On 18/03/2019 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , sm_jamieson wrote: Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. In my house, judging by the remains of bell circuits, the servant's room was the attic. They work in the basement and sleep in the attic. The Family might want something in the middle of the night. So what did those skivvys do about bathing ? Have a bath somewhere else once a year, whether they needed it or not ? Mate of mine spent some years in China teaching them english. They had public bath houses and still do even now. |
#30
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Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 06:01:02 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again: Mate of mine spent some years in China teaching them english. They had public bath houses and still do even now. ****, you HAD to **** also in this thread, eh, you senile pest? -- "Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed: "You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad little ignorant ****." MID: |
#31
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On 18/03/2019 19:01, Rod Speed wrote:
"Max Demian" wrote in message o.uk... On 18/03/2019 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Â*Â*Â* sm_jamieson wrote: Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. In my house, judging by the remains of bell circuits, the servant's room was the attic. They work in the basement and sleep in the attic. The Family might want something in the middle of the night. So what did those skivvys do about bathing ?Â* Have a bath somewhere else once a year, whether they needed it or not ? Tin bath in the kitchen. Family tin bath in their bedrooms, filled with water lugged upstairs by the staff. -- Max Demian |
#32
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In article ,
Max Demian wrote: On 18/03/2019 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , sm_jamieson wrote: Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. In my house, judging by the remains of bell circuits, the servant's room was the attic. They work in the basement and sleep in the attic. The Family might want something in the middle of the night. No basement here. Did wonder how having live in 'help' would work on this sort of house. -- *The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#33
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On 19/03/2019 15:42, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Max Demian wrote: On 18/03/2019 15:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , sm_jamieson wrote: Ah, I should have said "at a lower level than the main house 1st floor". I don't know what was underneath the servant rooms - probably some kind of lower ground floor rooms. In my house, judging by the remains of bell circuits, the servant's room was the attic. They work in the basement and sleep in the attic. The Family might want something in the middle of the night. No basement here. Did wonder how having live in 'help' would work on this sort of house. They would work in the kitchen and scullery (if there is one). They might just help the lady of the house cook and also serve the meals to the family, but eat in the kitchen. -- Max Demian |
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