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  #21   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 10:36 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking for a leak

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 09/03/2019 18:44, Paul Welsh wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:25, John Rumm wrote:

Any bright ideas?


I cut strips of kitchen paper and tie it around every possible
leaking joint.
I live in a hard water area so even if the water evaporates I get
calcium deposits after a few weeks or months, these can be felt by the
paper going slightly hard and discoloured.


Handy tip, ta.

Two litres sounds a lot. How do you measure it?


I can't directly - I can only estimate by how long I turn the filling
loop on to restore the pressure, and compare that time with filling a
container at the kitchen tap. We have high water pressure (~6 bar), so
it can shift a fair amount in a few seconds.


Umm. I suspect the valves on the filling loop are small bore leading to
lots of noise.

You could unhitch and fill a container to get an actual.

Nevertheless, it does sound to be a significant amount of water going
somewhere. I thought I had fixed mine when an auto air bleed literally
fell off the attachment thread! Pre-fixed to the manifold so likely
transport or installation damage. However, the system has now gone back
to losing a *needle thickness* per day with no visible signs. Fully
carpeted/tiled. Clearly with a manifold system I can isolate sections
relatively easily when the Tuits line up. Meanwhile my guess is the
screed over block and beam where a screeders shovel may have damaged a
pipe and any subsequent leak invisible.



--
Tim Lamb

  #22   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 10:51 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 1,960
Default Looking for a leak

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 13:49:48 -0800 (PST), David
wrote:

On Saturday, 9 March 2019 18:25:13 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
There is a leak somewhere in my central heating system - its losing
pressure regularly, and needs topping up with at least a couple of
litres a day.

Any bright ideas?


I had a cracked heat exchanger. Because it was a condensing boiler, it happily drained all the leaked water down the condensate pipe.

Could you see whether the boiler appears to be producing condensate even when it's powered off?

Alternatively, can you isolate the boiler and see whether its pressure decreases over time?


I had a similar problem with a boiler with an aluminium heat exchanger
corroding severely over time (Only about 10 years). Found where the
problem was when one day it was all quiet in the kitchen and I heard
the trickling water out of the condensate drain when the boiler was
off. (I have some interesting photos of the dead heat exchanger if
anyone wants some teaching material for plumbers.)




  #23   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 11:18 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking for a leak



The filling loop will sound like it is passing a lot of water - but it is
pushing against some back pressure.
  #24   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 11:31 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking for a leak

On 09/03/2019 19:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:44, Paul Welsh wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:25, John Rumm wrote:

Any bright ideas?


I cut strips of kitchen paper and tie it around every possible leaking
joint.

I live in a hard water area so even if the water evaporates I get
calcium deposits after a few weeks or months, these can be felt by the
paper going slightly hard and discoloured.


Handy tip, ta.

Two litres sounds a lot. How do you measure it?


I can't directly - I can only estimate by how long I turn the filling
loop on to restore the pressure, and compare that time with filling a
container at the kitchen tap. We have high water pressure (~6 bar), so
it can shift a fair amount in a few seconds.



Water meter? Ours has a 1 pulse/litre which would give a cross-check
when averaged over a few days.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #25   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 12:47 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 22,284
Default Looking for a leak

On 10/03/2019 10:36, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 09/03/2019 18:44, Paul Welsh wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:25, John Rumm wrote:

Any bright ideas?


I cut strips of kitchen paper and tie it around every possible
leaking¬* joint.
¬*I live in a hard water area so even if the water evaporates I get
calcium deposits after a few weeks or months, these can be felt by
the paper going slightly hard and discoloured.


Handy tip, ta.

Two litres sounds a lot. How do you measure it?


I can't directly - I can only estimate by how long I turn the filling
loop on to restore the pressure, and compare that time with filling a
container at the kitchen tap. We have high water pressure (~6 bar), so
it can shift a fair amount in a few seconds.


Umm. I suspect the valves on the filling loop are small bore leading to
lots of noise.


They are typical service valve size. When fully open the fill runs quietly.

You could unhitch and fill a container to get an actual.


Indeed I could...

Although the exact quantity in this case is not really the problem!

Nevertheless, it does sound to be a significant amount of water going
somewhere. I thought I had fixed mine when an auto air bleed literally
fell off the attachment thread! Pre-fixed to the manifold so likely
transport or installation damage. However, the system has now gone back
to losing a *needle thickness* per day with no visible signs. Fully
carpeted/tiled. Clearly with a manifold system I can isolate sections
relatively easily when the Tuits line up. Meanwhile my guess is the
screed over block and beam where a screeders shovel may have damaged a
pipe and any subsequent leak invisible.


Yup UFH with a leak can be a right pain to fix.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/


  #26   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 12:48 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 22,284
Default Looking for a leak

On 10/03/2019 11:31, Robin wrote:
On 09/03/2019 19:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:44, Paul Welsh wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:25, John Rumm wrote:

Any bright ideas?


I cut strips of kitchen paper and tie it around every possible
leaking joint.

I live in a hard water area so even if the water evaporates I get
calcium deposits after a few weeks or months, these can be felt by
the paper going slightly hard and discoloured.


Handy tip, ta.

Two litres sounds a lot. How do you measure it?


I can't directly - I can only estimate by how long I turn the filling
loop on to restore the pressure, and compare that time with filling a
container at the kitchen tap. We have high water pressure (~6 bar), so
it can shift a fair amount in a few seconds.



Water meter?¬* Ours has a 1 pulse/litre which would give a cross-check
when averaged over a few days.


No meter. I could unhitch the end of the filling loop hose and time it
into a container if I wanted. However that does really seem to be
focussing on the wrong problem.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #27   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 12:51 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 22,284
Default Looking for a leak

On 10/03/2019 09:46, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Brian Gaff"* wrote in message ...

Also is there any way to isolate a zone?

I rremember in a friends house about ten years ago, I walked into an
upstairs room and said, it smells like fresh plumbing in here. IE I
cannot describe it, but there is a smell of dampness and something
like a coppery tinge to it.
There was a tiny pinhole in a pipe* to the radiator there. It semmed
to be almost like steam. Weird, as I do not see how one can get a pin
hole in a pipe. Still that sort of problem has always put me off of
central heating since.
Brian


I once owned a flat (over one of my launderettes) where pin holes kept
appearing in 1/2" (not 15 mm) cold water pipes. Happened several times
so eventually we changed the pipes. Installed mid 1960's I suspect but
could have been as late as mid 1970's. It was a hard water area.


ISTR a recent BigClive video on YouTube where he dissected a bit of pipe
he cut out of his system that had sprung a pinhole leak. There were
clear spots of corrosion inside the pipe where it was thinning.

Yup, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDF3qRLw7CM



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #28   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 12:53 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 22,284
Default Looking for a leak

On 10/03/2019 11:18, DerbyBorn wrote:

The filling loop will sound like it is passing a lot of water - but it is
pushing against some back pressure.


Its still got a 4 - 5 bar advantage over what is in the system (system
pressure say 0.6 bar when I start refilling, mains pressure 6 bar).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #29   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 12:54 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 855
Default Looking for a leak

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 22:26:13 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

What type, and where would be a good place to get it (the dye that is, I
have the torch!)?


"fluorescein dye" in eBay... coupla quid, it's a orangey yellow.

A very very little goes a very long way! Found on eBay: "Typically 1 gram of
fluorescein LTC powder will successfully colour change 1 ton of water."


Thomas Prufer
  #30   Report Post  
Old March 10th 19, 12:56 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking for a leak

On 10/03/2019 12:48, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 11:31, Robin wrote:
On 09/03/2019 19:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:44, Paul Welsh wrote:
On 09/03/2019 18:25, John Rumm wrote:

Any bright ideas?


I cut strips of kitchen paper and tie it around every possible
leaking joint.

I live in a hard water area so even if the water evaporates I get
calcium deposits after a few weeks or months, these can be felt by
the paper going slightly hard and discoloured.

Handy tip, ta.

Two litres sounds a lot. How do you measure it?

I can't directly - I can only estimate by how long I turn the filling
loop on to restore the pressure, and compare that time with filling a
container at the kitchen tap. We have high water pressure (~6 bar),
so it can shift a fair amount in a few seconds.



Water meter?¬* Ours has a 1 pulse/litre which would give a cross-check
when averaged over a few days.


No meter. I could unhitch the end of the filling loop hose and time it
into a container if I wanted. However that does really seem to be
focussing on the wrong problem.


I just thought that if it turned out to be a lot less then a couple of
litres it'd be less to worry about. Anyhow, I realise now a check on
the amount is probably a lot easier: note the pressure before filling;
then after filling drain into a container to get back to the initial mark.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


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