DIYbanter

DIYbanter (https://www.diybanter.com/)
-   UK diy (https://www.diybanter.com/uk-diy/)
-   -   Fluorescent lighting (https://www.diybanter.com/uk-diy/631930-fluorescent-lighting.html)

Weatherlawyer March 1st 19 03:59 AM

Fluorescent lighting
 
Is there a wiki on how to install fluorescent lighting

Brian Gaff March 1st 19 10:05 AM

Fluorescent lighting
 
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find any
to install!

Even I managed to install the old type, you just screw them up connect them
up and they go!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
Is there a wiki on how to install fluorescent lighting




[email protected] March 1st 19 11:14 AM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 02:59:56 UTC, Weatherlawyer wrote:
Is there a wiki on how to install fluorescent lighting


Screw the in place, connect the cable up. The only gotcha is don't run the cable over the hot ballast. But why use fluorescent now? It's mostly obsolete.


NT

Dave Plowman (News) March 1st 19 03:24 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find
any to install!


Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?

A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.

Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

whisky-dave[_2_] March 1st 19 03:50 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find
any to install!


Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


I've heard they are, but not having testd them myself I can't say.


A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


That's not really true espeacily over time, the ends of florrys go black and start to flicker and get dimmer with time.


Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


Not sure that is true, but it should be difficult for LED tubes to be desined like the phillips hues.

We have new LED tubes in our new lab auto on and off, in my office they are also dimmable unlike the florrys in my present office, one of which is just flickering. One in the corridor is flickering and making a noise.
It could wake the students up ;-)


charles March 1st 19 03:58 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could
find any to install!


Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


I've heard they are, but not having testd them myself I can't say.



A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


That's not really true espeacily over time, the ends of florrys go black
and start to flicker and get dimmer with time.



Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


Not sure that is true, but it should be difficult for LED tubes to be
desined like the phillips hues.


We have new LED tubes in our new lab auto on and off, in my office they
are also dimmable unlike the florrys in my present office, one of which
is just flickering. One in the corridor is flickering and making a noise.
It could wake the students up ;-)


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[email protected] March 1st 19 04:05 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find
any to install!


Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


the thin fls are very good, but don't perform ok if the room's cold. LEDs have overtaken general purpose T8s in efficacy.


A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


not significantly. LED tape can be run anywhere, generally giving better illumination.

Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


RGB LEDs give way more colour temp choice. Whites are more limited.


NT

[email protected] March 1st 19 04:07 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 15:00:09 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could
find any to install!

Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


I've heard they are, but not having testd them myself I can't say.



A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


That's not really true espeacily over time, the ends of florrys go black
and start to flicker and get dimmer with time.



Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


Not sure that is true, but it should be difficult for LED tubes to be
desined like the phillips hues.


We have new LED tubes in our new lab auto on and off, in my office they
are also dimmable unlike the florrys in my present office, one of which
is just flickering. One in the corridor is flickering and making a noise.
It could wake the students up ;-)


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


I used to spend time somewhere with magnetic ballasted fluorescents on 1930s variac dimmers. It worked.


NT

harry March 1st 19 04:10 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find
any to install!


Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?

A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.

Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.



LEDs are slightly better than electronic ballast fluorescent lights.

Some way better than switch start.

Plus instant start.
Several colours available.

whisky-dave[_2_] March 1st 19 04:52 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 15:00:09 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could
find any to install!

Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


I've heard they are, but not having testd them myself I can't say.



A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


That's not really true espeacily over time, the ends of florrys go black
and start to flicker and get dimmer with time.



Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


Not sure that is true, but it should be difficult for LED tubes to be
desined like the phillips hues.


We have new LED tubes in our new lab auto on and off, in my office they
are also dimmable unlike the florrys in my present office, one of which
is just flickering. One in the corridor is flickering and making a noise.
It could wake the students up ;-)


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in the mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the dept or uni, there must be a reason.
And the electric car existed in about 1880.

wasn't exactly a tesla or even a prima though.







--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle



NY March 1st 19 05:02 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was impossible, and
was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre could be
dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s, which gives an
idea of what technology was available then. I remember a huge cabinet about
the size of a 6-foot high freezer in the projection unit which gave off a
hell of a hum as the lights were going from full off to full on, which they
did on a timer: the lecturer pressed a button and they dimmed/brightened
automatically over the course of about 5 seconds.


whisky-dave[_2_] March 1st 19 05:30 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 16:02:52 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed?


I waqsnt; sure so looked it up.

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/A...ures-Work.aspx

I'd always thought that it was impossible,


well I knew it was possible but a bit more difficult than just replacing a light switch with a dimmer switch.


and
was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre could be
dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s, which gives an
idea of what technology was available then.


I had a brief look at how the stage lighting in the school worked in the late 70s, just seemed to be large covered rheostats covered in dust.
A selection of coloured filters were in a cardboard box too.


I remember a huge cabinet about
the size of a 6-foot high freezer in the projection unit which gave off a
hell of a hum as the lights were going from full off to full on, which they
did on a timer: the lecturer pressed a button and they dimmed/brightened
automatically over the course of about 5 seconds.


Yes most of us have evolved since those days, in most cases we have better kit and better ways of doing things now.



NY March 1st 19 07:09 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 1 March 2019 16:02:52 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed?


I waqsnt; sure so looked it up.

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/A...ures-Work.aspx

I'd always thought that it was impossible,


well I knew it was possible but a bit more difficult than just replacing a
light switch with a dimmer switch.


and
was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre could be
dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s, which gives
an
idea of what technology was available then.


I had a brief look at how the stage lighting in the school worked in the
late 70s, just seemed to be large covered rheostats covered in dust.


I helped with the lighting in the school hall (an older building with a
proper proscenium arch, wings and a curtain) and they used huge wire-wound
rheostats which were operated with a length of wood to fade many up or down
at the same time.

There was also a huge circular drum rheostat for dimming the house lights,
and we were given strict instructions to make *certain* that the big
circular handle was in the fully-anti-clockwise (min) position before
turning on or off (to avoid turning them on/off suddenly) and when we
started to fade them either way, do it *quickly*, taking no more than about
5 seconds to go from one end to the other (accompanied by a loud screeching
of the contact on the wire!) to avoid running the rheostat at part-load for
any longer than necessary. Even then, we could see the wire glowing in the
dim light of the wings where the lighting board was.

The lecture theatre was equipped with lots of theatrical lights, and a nice
"new" (at the time) triac dimmer system with tiny sliders for diming the
lights, but it was never used for plays because there were no wings (other
than exiting through the fire doors either side into the playground) and
there was no curtain.


Dave Plowman (News) March 1st 19 08:25 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find
any to install!


Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


I've heard they are, but not having testd them myself I can't say.



A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


That's not really true espeacily over time, the ends of florrys go black
and start to flicker and get dimmer with time.


With old fashioned ballasts, possibly. But high frequency ones have been
around for many years now. The light output does go down slightly with
age, though.


Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


Not sure that is true, but it should be difficult for LED tubes to be desined like the phillips hues.


Many might prefer to have the colour temperature they want from the off
without messing about.

We have new LED tubes in our new lab auto on and off, in my office they
are also dimmable unlike the florrys in my present office, one of which
is just flickering. One in the corridor is flickering and making a
noise. It could wake the students up ;-)


Dimming florries with electronic ballasts has also been around for many a
year. The ones lighting my kitchen worktops - installed some 20 years ago.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) March 1st 19 08:27 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
charles wrote:
Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


Even earlier than that, Charles. Our school hall had them in the 50s.
Although not something that would fit in a one gang box. ;-)

--
*When it rains, why don't sheep shrink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) March 1st 19 08:28 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in the
mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the dept or
uni, there must be a reason.


Generally, florries in a lab are working lights. Why would you need to dim
them?

--
*ONE NICE THING ABOUT EGOTISTS: THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) March 1st 19 08:30 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was impossible,
and was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre
could be dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s,
which gives an idea of what technology was available then. I remember a
huge cabinet about the size of a 6-foot high freezer in the projection
unit which gave off a hell of a hum as the lights were going from full
off to full on, which they did on a timer: the lecturer pressed a
button and they dimmed/brightened automatically over the course of
about 5 seconds.


With the electronic ballasts I have here, all you need to add is a simple
pot to dim them.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andrew Gabriel March 1st 19 08:48 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On 01/03/2019 16:30, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 16:02:52 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed?


I waqsnt; sure so looked it up.

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/A...ures-Work.aspx

I'd always thought that it was impossible,


well I knew it was possible but a bit more difficult than just replacing a light switch with a dimmer switch.


It is basically replacing the light switch with a dimmer (suitable for
inductive loads), but you also need to add a separate pair of isolated
supplies to keep the filaments hot enough to continue operating in
thermionic emission mode when the tube current is too low to do it just
by itself. This will also enable the tube to strike without a starter.

Indeed, I made just such a light as a teenager.

Commercially, Transtar was a well known manufacturer of dimming magnetic
ballasts (and very high quality non-dimming ballasts).

and
was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre could be
dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s, which gives an
idea of what technology was available then.


One issue with banks of dimming fluorescents is all the tubes had to be
replaced together, otherwise newer and older tubes are significantly
different light output, and different makes can be different too.

Also, you get colour shift and a significant drop in CRI when dimming
fluorescents, as the ratio of light output from the different mercury
line changes, which upsets the colour balance from the arc and the
phosphor (tend to lose more green and end up with purple from the over
balance of red and blue).

Nowadays with microcontroller based electronic ballasts, adding dimming
is trivial, although it's not done by using triac dimmers. 0-10V, DALI,
switch-dim, or photocell to generate constant lux level are common, and
many electronic ballasts support multiple of these.

Indeed, many electronic ballasts support multiple different tubes that
run at different currents, and having identified the tube in use from
the electrical characteristics, effectively use the internal dimmer
logic to limit the current to the max allowed for the identified tube.

--
Andrew

charles March 1st 19 09:43 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


Even earlier than that, Charles. Our school hall had them in the 50s.
Although not something that would fit in a one gang box. ;-)


I can quite believe that, but I first met them in 1961.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Weatherlawyer March 2nd 19 04:37 AM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 09:05:08 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find any
to install!

Even I managed to install the old type, you just screw them up connect them
up and they go!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
Is there a wiki on how to install fluorescent lighting


This may sound like a silly question
What?

whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 12:19 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in the
mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the dept or
uni, there must be a reason.


Generally, florries in a lab are working lights. Why would you need to dim
them?


Because that's what the designers of the new lab said we need, you don't think they'll ask us users do you ?
I didnlt think we needed auto on lights in teh toilets either, or the taps which use PIR , which means yuo canlt adjust teh water temperature for yourself up or down or the lifts where you have to tell it what floor before you get in it and then wait for the lift that goes to that floor.
I wouldn't have spent the thousands on the smart AV lecture tables either.


whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 12:28 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 14:31:48 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Could one ask why you would want to these days, assuming you could find
any to install!

Is it that far behind LEDs etc in terms of efficiency/life?


I've heard they are, but not having testd them myself I can't say.



A florry gives a more even illumination than a series of LEDs.


That's not really true espeacily over time, the ends of florrys go black
and start to flicker and get dimmer with time.


With old fashioned ballasts, possibly. But high frequency ones have been
around for many years now. The light output does go down slightly with
age, though.


All I know is the lighting was replaced in the mid 90s. with new florries.
All teh electrics of the lab were redone.




Also a better selection of colour temperature, etc.


Not sure that is true, but it should be difficult for LED tubes to be desined like the phillips hues.


Many might prefer to have the colour temperature they want from the off
without messing about.


And far more don;t get the choice we haven't the choice.
When the florries go dim or start flashing we call maintaince (we wait until a few are on the blink) and within the month they come over and change them.



We have new LED tubes in our new lab auto on and off, in my office they
are also dimmable unlike the florrys in my present office, one of which
is just flickering. One in the corridor is flickering and making a
noise. It could wake the students up ;-)


Dimming florries with electronic ballasts has also been around for many a
year. The ones lighting my kitchen worktops - installed some 20 years ago.


But we didn't have them installed here, I doubt we considered we had a need for dimmable, I didn't think we needed them, but it;s not like we were asked.
All we wanted was better lighting than the 1980s lighting we had.


whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 12:31 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:03 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was impossible,
and was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre
could be dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s,
which gives an idea of what technology was available then. I remember a
huge cabinet about the size of a 6-foot high freezer in the projection
unit which gave off a hell of a hum as the lights were going from full
off to full on, which they did on a timer: the lecturer pressed a
button and they dimmed/brightened automatically over the course of
about 5 seconds.


With the electronic ballasts I have here, all you need to add is a simple
pot to dim them.


Good for yuo all we have is 2 panels with 8 rocker switches on each to control the lights, not sure I could have replaced those 'rockers' with 16 pots just like that.


[email protected] March 4th 19 12:43 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 11:31:20 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:03 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was impossible,
and was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre
could be dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s,
which gives an idea of what technology was available then. I remember a
huge cabinet about the size of a 6-foot high freezer in the projection
unit which gave off a hell of a hum as the lights were going from full
off to full on, which they did on a timer: the lecturer pressed a
button and they dimmed/brightened automatically over the course of
about 5 seconds.


With the electronic ballasts I have here, all you need to add is a simple
pot to dim them.


Good for yuo all we have is 2 panels with 8 rocker switches on each to control the lights, not sure I could have replaced those 'rockers' with 16 pots just like that.


If they're the old type that flash during starting, just loosen the starter on a fitting & it doesn't start. Easiest way to dim the room.

Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


NT

whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 12:47 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:48:36 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
On 01/03/2019 16:30, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 16:02:52 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s..
Nothing new there.

How are fluorescents dimmed?


I waqsnt; sure so looked it up.

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/A...ures-Work.aspx

I'd always thought that it was impossible,


well I knew it was possible but a bit more difficult than just replacing a light switch with a dimmer switch.


It is basically replacing the light switch with a dimmer (suitable for
inductive loads), but you also need to add a separate pair of isolated
supplies to keep the filaments hot enough to continue operating in
thermionic emission mode when the tube current is too low to do it just
by itself. This will also enable the tube to strike without a starter.

Indeed, I made just such a light as a teenager.


I'm not allowed to just replace the lighting in a teaching lab with something I did at home. I also have about 45 double tubes in the lab.



Commercially, Transtar was a well known manufacturer of dimming magnetic
ballasts (and very high quality non-dimming ballasts).


Good for them but I leave that to those designing the spaces in the lab.

Just has a academic asking for a 96V or higher PSU I politely laughed.

I've been asked to suggest the purchase of some new bench supplies for the lab but I doubt I'll get permission to order ones that got up 96V.
I'm not looking at anything about 30V at the moment.





and
was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre could be
dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s, which gives an
idea of what technology was available then.


One issue with banks of dimming fluorescents is all the tubes had to be
replaced together, otherwise newer and older tubes are significantly
different light output, and different makes can be different too.


Yes we have that problem witout dimmering, 3 faulty in the lab at the moment with 1 or 2 on their last legs.


Also, you get colour shift and a significant drop in CRI when dimming
fluorescents, as the ratio of light output from the different mercury
line changes, which upsets the colour balance from the arc and the
phosphor (tend to lose more green and end up with purple from the over
balance of red and blue).


Makes me think that perhaps LED tubes are better. We did ask for them rather than florries but the cost would have be over £3k so was rejected.



Nowadays with microcontroller based electronic ballasts, adding dimming
is trivial, although it's not done by using triac dimmers. 0-10V, DALI,
switch-dim, or photocell to generate constant lux level are common, and
many electronic ballasts support multiple of these.


why not use LEDs ?


Indeed, many electronic ballasts support multiple different tubes that
run at different currents, and having identified the tube in use from
the electrical characteristics, effectively use the internal dimmer
logic to limit the current to the max allowed for the identified tube.


I think that's what our new LED tubes in the new lab do, on walking over to them after a few seconds they come on whether wanted on or not.

WHich is going to be fun when they want the light out when using photocells in a lab experiment can't wait to have to explain that one the the 'designers'


whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 02:03 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 11:43:43 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 4 March 2019 11:31:20 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:03 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.

How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was impossible,
and was surprised when the fluorescents in my school lecture theatre
could be dimmed. They were probably installed in the early to mid 70s,
which gives an idea of what technology was available then. I remember a
huge cabinet about the size of a 6-foot high freezer in the projection
unit which gave off a hell of a hum as the lights were going from full
off to full on, which they did on a timer: the lecturer pressed a
button and they dimmed/brightened automatically over the course of
about 5 seconds.

With the electronic ballasts I have here, all you need to add is a simple
pot to dim them.


Good for yuo all we have is 2 panels with 8 rocker switches on each to control the lights, not sure I could have replaced those 'rockers' with 16 pots just like that.


If they're the old type that flash during starting, just loosen the starter on a fitting & it doesn't start. Easiest way to dim the room.


So I go around with a ladder messing about with upto 20 tube starters not thanks.


Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


When the projection system is being used or they want to show slides or whatever I assume. I don't think we asked for dimmable lights. well it wasn't part of the things I wanted in the lab.






NT



Dave Plowman (News) March 4th 19 03:11 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in
the mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the
dept or uni, there must be a reason.


Generally, florries in a lab are working lights. Why would you need to
dim them?


Because that's what the designers of the new lab said we need, you don't
think they'll ask us users do you ?


I'm really not surprised given your replies to questions on here. ;-)



I didnlt think we needed auto on
lights in teh toilets either, or the taps which use PIR , which means
yuo canlt adjust teh water temperature for yourself up or down or the
lifts where you have to tell it what floor before you get in it and then
wait for the lift that goes to that floor. I wouldn't have spent the
thousands on the smart AV lecture tables either.


--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) March 4th 19 03:13 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:03 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...


Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early
1960s. Nothing new there.


How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was
impossible, and was surprised when the fluorescents in my school
lecture theatre could be dimmed. They were probably installed in the
early to mid 70s, which gives an idea of what technology was
available then. I remember a huge cabinet about the size of a 6-foot
high freezer in the projection unit which gave off a hell of a hum
as the lights were going from full off to full on, which they did on
a timer: the lecturer pressed a button and they dimmed/brightened
automatically over the course of about 5 seconds.


With the electronic ballasts I have here, all you need to add is a
simple pot to dim them.


Good for yuo all we have is 2 panels with 8 rocker switches on each to
control the lights, not sure I could have replaced those 'rockers' with
16 pots just like that.


I'm quite sure you couldn't. But this is a DIY group, so many obviously
can.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) March 4th 19 03:15 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
In article ,
wrote:
Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


Why? The need to dim lights in a domestic setting easy to understand. But
even then why make them more powerful than ever needed?

--
*It is wrong to ever split an infinitive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 05:20 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 14:18:21 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in
the mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the
dept or uni, there must be a reason.

Generally, florries in a lab are working lights. Why would you need to
dim them?


Because that's what the designers of the new lab said we need, you don't
think they'll ask us users do you ?


I'm really not surprised given your replies to questions on here. ;-)


Well I was asked my views, but I never said I wanted auto lights I did say we wanted a section of the lab that could be made dark for visual experiments we had this 30 years ago for opto electronics experiments with lasers.
I wanted a room where students could work on audio projects doesn't need to be completley soundproof. They ahve partly done that with a bit of sound proofing and an extra thick door.

I asked for the lab to be a heated one and have got that with overhead heaters for some reason. I wanted indicidual cupboards for the desks, and got that.
We even have temperature readouts and settable to 0.1C (I believe that once I're tried it)

We didnlt want the expensive AV desks that are about £5k but apparenty that is the default now. We wanted second monototrs for AV as we have them in the old lab. They said we must have the newer 4K ones.
We got to chose the carper and tiles too, the chairs and stools. They tried to get us to buy the expensive chairs that are adjustable at £200+ each we settled for the OK ones of about £45.
We even thought about the opening ceromony and I said we should get Maggie Philbin to open it and they think that's a good idea and looking into it.

Sometimes they listen to me/us other times they don't.

whisky-dave[_2_] March 4th 19 05:24 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 14:18:22 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:03 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early
1960s. Nothing new there.

How are fluorescents dimmed? I'd always thought that it was
impossible, and was surprised when the fluorescents in my school
lecture theatre could be dimmed. They were probably installed in the
early to mid 70s, which gives an idea of what technology was
available then. I remember a huge cabinet about the size of a 6-foot
high freezer in the projection unit which gave off a hell of a hum
as the lights were going from full off to full on, which they did on
a timer: the lecturer pressed a button and they dimmed/brightened
automatically over the course of about 5 seconds.

With the electronic ballasts I have here, all you need to add is a
simple pot to dim them.


Good for yuo all we have is 2 panels with 8 rocker switches on each to
control the lights, not sure I could have replaced those 'rockers' with
16 pots just like that.


I'm quite sure you couldn't. But this is a DIY group, so many obviously
can.


But couldn't.
Even our maintance staff aren't allowed to install new instalations.
I doubt you could manage it , you can't even tell AC from DC.




[email protected] March 4th 19 07:28 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 13:03:34 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 4 March 2019 11:43:43 UTC, tabby wrote:


If they're the old type that flash during starting, just loosen the starter on a fitting & it doesn't start. Easiest way to dim the room.


So I go around with a ladder messing about with upto 20 tube starters not thanks.


if you're stupid enough to do it that way

Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


When the projection system is being used or they want to show slides or whatever I assume. I don't think we asked for dimmable lights. well it wasn't part of the things I wanted in the lab.



[email protected] March 4th 19 07:31 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 14:18:22 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:


Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


Why? The need to dim lights in a domestic setting easy to understand. But
even then why make them more powerful than ever needed?


1. Ignorance. Some installers don't fully know what they're doing.
2. For cleaning some people want extra bright lighting
3. Variations in eyesight & perception cause variations in desired light level.


NT

Max Demian March 4th 19 08:22 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On 04/03/2019 11:19, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in the
mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the dept or
uni, there must be a reason.


Generally, florries in a lab are working lights. Why would you need to dim
them?


Because that's what the designers of the new lab said we need, you don't think they'll ask us users do you ?
I didnlt think we needed auto on lights in teh toilets either, or the taps which use PIR , which means yuo canlt adjust teh water temperature for yourself up or down or the lifts where you have to tell it what floor before you get in it and then wait for the lift that goes to that floor.


I assume that if several people are waiting to go to different floors
they can all press different buttons, so why can't one person press all
the buttons that go to all the floors on the way to the one he wants?

--
Max Demian

ARW March 4th 19 09:06 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On 04/03/2019 14:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


Why? The need to dim lights in a domestic setting easy to understand.


Indeed

1min 22 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r26krlXFmOI


And we swapped all candles for LED battery operated ones. I have worked
on to many fire damaged houses where the fire was caused by a candle.


--


Adam

Steve Walker[_5_] March 4th 19 10:04 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On 04/03/2019 11:47, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:48:36 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
On 01/03/2019 16:30, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 16:02:52 UTC, NY wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...

Dimmable fluorescent fittings have been around since the early 1960s.
Nothing new there.

How are fluorescents dimmed?

I waqsnt; sure so looked it up.

https://www.etcconnect.com/Support/A...ures-Work.aspx

I'd always thought that it was impossible,

well I knew it was possible but a bit more difficult than just replacing a light switch with a dimmer switch.


It is basically replacing the light switch with a dimmer (suitable for
inductive loads), but you also need to add a separate pair of isolated
supplies to keep the filaments hot enough to continue operating in
thermionic emission mode when the tube current is too low to do it just
by itself. This will also enable the tube to strike without a starter.

Indeed, I made just such a light as a teenager.


I'm not allowed to just replace the lighting in a teaching lab with something I did at home. I also have about 45 double tubes in the lab.



Commercially, Transtar was a well known manufacturer of dimming magnetic
ballasts (and very high quality non-dimming ballasts).


Good for them but I leave that to those designing the spaces in the lab.

Just has a academic asking for a 96V or higher PSU I politely laughed.

I've been asked to suggest the purchase of some new bench supplies for the lab but I doubt I'll get permission to order ones that got up 96V.
I'm not looking at anything about 30V at the moment.


I remember, aged about 12, doing experiments with a CRT tube during
physics. The tube was made with male banana plugs sticking out directly
from the glass on each side, so you had to connect up a 3500V supply
(IIRC) using reverse stacked banana plugs, still leaving the live pins
sticking out on each side - while 3 ft away, the next pupil was doing
experiments with water!

SteveW

Steve Walker[_5_] March 4th 19 10:07 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On 04/03/2019 14:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


Why? The need to dim lights in a domestic setting easy to understand. But
even then why make them more powerful than ever needed?


Very handy to have much brighter than normal lights when working on
fiddly objects. I'd love to have multiple fluorescent lights in the
living room (best place to fix things in comfort) - but only if they
could be completely hidden when normal lighting was in use.

SteveW

[email protected] March 4th 19 10:16 PM

Fluorescent lighting
 
On Monday, 4 March 2019 21:07:36 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 04/03/2019 14:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:


Why dim? IME nearly all commercial & school fluorescent installs are heavily overpowered.


Why? The need to dim lights in a domestic setting easy to understand. But
even then why make them more powerful than ever needed?


Very handy to have much brighter than normal lights when working on
fiddly objects. I'd love to have multiple fluorescent lights in the
living room (best place to fix things in comfort) - but only if they
could be completely hidden when normal lighting was in use.

SteveW


trough fittings


NT

Rod Speed March 5th 19 01:30 AM

Fluorescent lighting
 


"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 04/03/2019 11:19, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 1 March 2019 19:35:02 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
This lab was build in the 1960s last electrical refurbishment was in
the
mid 90s. But still never seen any dimmable florescant in the dept or
uni, there must be a reason.

Generally, florries in a lab are working lights. Why would you need to
dim
them?


Because that's what the designers of the new lab said we need, you don't
think they'll ask us users do you ?
I didnlt think we needed auto on lights in teh toilets either, or the
taps which use PIR , which means yuo canlt adjust teh water temperature
for yourself up or down or the lifts where you have to tell it what
floor before you get in it and then wait for the lift that goes to that
floor.


I assume that if several people are waiting to go to different floors they
can all press different buttons, so why can't one person press all the
buttons that go to all the floors on the way to the one he wants?


What would be the point of doing that ?


Peeler[_3_] March 5th 19 01:34 AM

Lonely Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert! LOL
 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 11:30:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


What would be the point of doing that ?


Nobody was talking to you, you psychopathic obnoxious senile pest!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter