"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I've never come across a gas cooker with an oven which doesn't have a
thermostat and which relies on a constant flow of gas no matter whether
the oven is cold or up to temp. Even my mum's old 1962 cooker gave a big
flame when you lit it, which reduced to a smaller flame when the oven was
up to temperature.

Sure, but that wasnt done with a thermostat.

I'm not sure whether the temperature sensor reduced the gas flow to a
constant intermediate value when the oven was at temp,

Not in the thermostat sense, it basically reduces
the gas flow as the temperature increases.

I think we're in danger of splitting hairs here (as opposed to splitting
hares, as I once saw someone write, which is leporine butchery!). I tend to
think of a thermostat as something which keeps the temperature constant, by
means of some sort of feedback loop - whether that is achieved by gradually
reducing the heating effect until thermal equilibrium is reached, or whether
by cruder full-on/full-off control every so often.

Thats not possible with the traditional gas
oven which has no electronics involved at all.

You could design a gas-oven thermostat that had a bimetallic strip which
flipped between two states (as in a central heating thermostat) which turned
the gas full on or else to a minimum level that just kept the flame alight.
That is probably a classic thermostat that you are thinking of. But it so
happens that it is possible to control the flow of gas much more finely
without any energy loss by partially opening a valve, whereas doing the same
thing with electricity requires huge rheostats or big power transistors,
either way with a heat sink and significant energy loss when half-way on. So
electric cookers have a simple switch - and rely on plenty of thermal
inertia in the heating element and the air within the oven.

But either way it's temperature sensitive and reduces gas flow to achieve
constant temperature, rather than a simple partially-open valve which has no
thermal feedback to alter the gas flow once the temperature reaches the
desired level and to increase it temporarily if the oven door is opened and
the oven cools a bit more.

I'm not sure how rapid the cutoff is for a gas "regulo" but I think it's
fairly abrupt - full gas to get the oven up to temp as fast as possible,
then reduce to a fixed level appropriate to the temperature selected, with
minor adjustments in flow rate if the temperature happens to go a bit high
or low. And all done mechanically - on older cookers, anyway. Modern ones
probably use temperature sensors and electronic logic to replicate the
mechanical "logic" that controlled the flow rate as the temperature
approached the one it was set at.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 03:43:48 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


It is: a Harry Potter "Marauder's Map" mug, filled about 1 1/2 times.

That¢s not 'just enough'

Isn't it, driveling idiot? BG

Or a conventional mug filled twice.

And neither is that.

Isn't it, driveling idiot? BG

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 05:00:32 +1100, 2987fr, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Its different with kettles because

Kettles? AGAIN? LMAO

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 04:19:39 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Yeah, very likely. I used to always change down
to 2nd for corners in the 5 speed manual Getz
but now stay in 3rd for most corners.

How very very interesting, poor driveling senile idiot! BG

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 05:18:22 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

I don¢t find that a problem. I do use an electric blanket and a decent
quilt in winter but don¢t heat the house at all overnight in winter.

Darn! Yet more senile bull**** on uk.d-i-y!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 04:37:38 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

FLUSH another load of the endless senile blather

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 04:00:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


All the manuals I look at have a proper thermostat now.

You read manuals as a pastime, senile idiot? Well, I'm not surprised!

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 05:31:50 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

FLUSH yet more senile troll****

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 05:09:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Anything is better than the hot-air ducted heating that was all the rage
in the early 70s when one of my parents' houses was built. That was
appalling - it didn't heat the house

It works fine now, presumably those older ones just didn¢t provide
anywhere near enough joules given the very thermally leaky houses.

and it spread dust everywhere,

Not when you filter the hot air properly. Yes, that does
need a high level of filter changes, but it is very effective.

and there was a cold draught from the floor vents if you were sitting
"downwind" of them.

Again, you only get that result when its
not putting enough heat into the house.

Again, senile Rot knows it ALL better ...whether it be about things in the
US or in the UK ...the senile Ozzietard ALWAYS knows it better ...I mean
ALWAYS! LMAO

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 03:42:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


We

There's NO "we" for you, lonely senile Ozzie cretin!

either way heating water for circulating through radiators.

We

See above, senile troll!

We

See above, again!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On 22/02/2019 15:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/02/2019 13:14, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/02/2019 11:23, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 18:52:52 -0000, NY wrote:

I get the distinct impression that the government are banning
existing CH
systems (as with ways of generating electricity) before they have got a
replacement that is at least as good. Replacing with something worse is
worthy of the strongest possible contempt.

I suppose modern houses can at least be insulated better than existing
houses are.

Maybe the idea is to encourage developers/builders to fit better
insulation.

That's easy enough - just update the building regs with a higher
minimum level for new builds / substantial alterations.


its reached the limit of usefulness already. Unless you add heat
recovery ventilation you cant really add much to a modern house thermal
wise.

Or quad glaze the windows.

Yup, I was not suggesting it was a good idea, but it would be simpler
than some convoluted social engineering effort brought about by banning
gas heating etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You never do reply to my question about how reliable the Honda has been.

Sorry. I don't remember ever seeing you ask about reliability.

No problem, thanks for the reply now.

The car, a CR-V SE 1.6 4WD (6-speed manual), was new in July 2015 and has
done just over 78,000 miles (125,000 km). It's averaged 44 mpg (6.4 l/100
km) (total distance/total fuel used) which is a looong way short of the
manufacturer's quoted figures - so much so that I've asked the garage's
advice on a couple of occasions as to whether our figures are within the
normal range of what a *real-world* user should achieve. A colleague of my
wife has the same model and same engine, and almost the same age, and gets
dramatically better economy - I think over 50 mpg (by comparison, my
10-year-old Peugeot 3081.6 HDi which has done 180,000 miles (290,000 km),
has averaged 55 mpg).

In both cases (my wife's car and mine) the figures are for mainly 50-70
mph driving, some on the flat and some in hilly country, with very little
stop-start or slow city driving. We accelerate moderately hard,
progressively up to the speed limit, but no wheel-spinning, tyre-shredding
stuff - apart from the very occasional time when it's the only way to pull
out onto a main road when no-one, not one single solitary person, slows
slightly to make a gap for us to pull into. We both tend to read the road
ahead fairly well so we slow down by lifting off the power rather than
driving flat out up to the hazard and braking hard. I probably get
slightly better economy than my wife, but then I tend to drive the Honda
at weekends when there's less traffic; my wife probably drives a bit more
aggressively (sorry, slip of the tongue, I meant "assertively") in heavier
morning/evening traffic to and from work.

Going to be interesting to see what the difference turns out to be due to.

We've had very little trouble with the Honda - the only things that have
been replaced are routine consumables like occasional new wiper blades and
4 new tyres at 35,000 and 60,000 miles; it was supplied with Michelin
Latitude Sport and we replaced them both times with Avon ZX7. At its first
MOT (July 2018, 3 years after registration, 60,000 miles) it passed with
no comments or "advisories". We had the tyres replaced immediately
beforehand in anticipation that they might get commented on as needing
replacement fairly soon - better than finding that I'd misread the tread
depth and one of them had caused it to fail the MOT, which is embarrassing
when it's something that I should have put right beforehand.

How often are Australian cars given a safety check like our MOT? Ours is
every year starting three years from new.

Ours is every year,. starting 5 years from new. Thats in NSW, it varys by
state here. No checks at all, regardless of age in some states like
Queensland.

The car (Hetty the Honda!) is probably too young to start to need big
things replacing. When she gets to 180,000 miles, like my Pug, and needs
new diesel particulate filter and cat, and has various problems with the
"anti-pollution system" and the clutch actuator failing, then I'll be able
to comment more. Mind you, Pug is still on his original clutch, which is
incredible - bite point is fairly high but it shows no signs of slipping
at all. I wonder if the Honda's clutch will last that long.

My Getz is not 13 years old and hasnt had anything except consumables
replaced. The clutch can sound a bit odd when initially backing out first
thing but there has been no change in the bite point and no sign of
slipping at all.

The previous Golf, bought new in 73, managed 45 years of daily driving
without any need for a clutch replacement.

The next service, due fairly soon, will be the "big one" because it's the
first we'll have to pay for (when we bought the car, we bought a service
deal which covered the first 5 services) and I remember at the last one I
was told the various things that need to be replaced routinely at the
nominal 75,000 service (which will be about 79,000 because we were a bit
late in booking it in for a couple of intermediate services). I forget the
details: I should have written it down ;-)

The Getz has only done 67K KM so far and nothing special is needed at 75K
I havent even bothered to change the spark plugs. Supposed to have done
and it does run rough for a while in the coldest mornings in winter. I've
got
the new plugs and the plug spanner and will change then when it starts doing
it again in winter.

I'm not sure what the cost of big jobs is for the car - usually at
100-120,000 most cars need the cambelt changing which is always an
expensive job - 5 mins to change the belt, a few quid for the part, but
several hours to dismantle things to reach the belt.

And important to change it with an interference engine.

I'm currently considering buying a new car, basically to get a decent
cruise control, the Getz doesnt have any cruise control at all and while
you can add an after market one, I would prefer one of the fancy radar
ones that keep a distance you specify behind the car in front of you.
And with the Hondas thats right down to zero forward speed, handy
for stop start traffic jams which is what got me considering a Honda,
likely a Jazz or Civic.

The CR-V would be handy to sleep in on long trips. Now that I have
retired I do have a snooze every day and it would be convenient to
do that on long trips too. The longest recent one was 7 hours each
way with the all day lost trades fair all day. Left here at 2am. The
trip back wasnt very pleasant without the snooze. I dont ever go
to sleep unintentionally when driving but do feel pretty crappy
on the trip back when its done like that without a stop for a sleep.
http://www.losttrades.info/

On the other hand, I have never had any problem sleeping by
the side of the road on a spring stretcher on the non traffic side
of the car with a major national highway with the cars roaring
past on the other side of the car. I can sleep thru anything.

With my Pug I was advised to have the water pump (driven off the same
belt) replaced at the same time whether or not it needed it, because
there's no point in paying twice for the same dismantle/
reassemble labour which is a lot more than the cost of the pump. Clutch is
a big one. Cat or DPF on any car are frighteningly expensive - and that
*is* mainly parts rather than labour. All of that is yet to come -
hopefully along way off!

The only thing that hasn't performed as expected is the parking sensors.
Both my wife and I have hit bollards when reversing at very low speed.
We're used to all the false alarms from the front end when parallel
parking and my front left wing gets very close to the rear right wing of
the car I'm parking behind, or from tree branches nearby when parking - or
even stray flies that the sensor sees (maybe the last bit is a
exaggeration!). But in both cases, the sensor did *not* sound, and in both
cases the point of impact was right *on* the sensor - as if the sensor can
see objects from a few degrees either side of it but not objects that are
about the hit the sensor disk itself. I nudged a road sign when reversing
off a grassy area onto a road - it was not visible in the driver's side
mirror and it was not visible in the rear-view mirror - in the very blind
spot between the two that parking sensors are designed for. My wife gave
me a real ear-bashing for that, then a few months later she sheepishly
confessed that she'd done exactly the same thing with the passenger-side
rear sensor in collision with a big wooden telephone and mains electricity
cable pole just where our drive meets the village green. No real damage
done, just a bit of cracked/flaked paint on the bumper in both cases. But
something to watch out for: the parking sensors occasionally *don't* see
things :-(

Yeah, I'd much rather have a full set of cameras which operate as a dashcam
when not parking and when fully parked and which show you the closest
obstruction automatically on a split screen with the two closest when
parking.

Corse the volvos actually park themselves which is even better
but I have a few niggles with the new volvo ownership detail.
They may not be around forever and its likely the last car I will
buy unless full self driving cars are viable before I cark it.

The Tesla isnt viable for me, no electric car will do
that sort of long trip in the middle of the night here.

I managed to dislodge the front bumper when reversing very very slowly up
a steep drive where there was a sharp change gradient between level road
and steep uphill drive. Given the high ground clearance of the CR-V, that
must have been a very dramatic change of gradient!

I do manage to scrape the front spoiler on the Getz with the
deepest storm drains across sealed roads here. Like this one.
https://goo.gl/maps/UhwDJ4W11X52

Luckily when I got home, a bit of firm pressure on the bumper allowed it
to distort enough for the lug on the bumper to engage with the peg on the
car body and it popped back into place.

Yeah, thats what I do with the spoiler.

It was when we were looking at a new house that we were considering
buying, and we realised that if the CR-V grounded on a steep drive, my Pug
was even more likely to do so because it seems to have very low bumpers
and/or long overhang from the wheels.

Little niggles...

The aerodynamics of the car are such that the back-end of the car gets
*very* dirty in winter when there's a lot of spray coming up from the
road.

Yeah, the Getz does too.

This is only a problem in that it quickly obscures the reversing camera
which is in the boot-release handle, and the camera is then no use to man
nor beast because of the muck on the lens. Honda should have put a little
washer jet, driven from the rear-window washer, to clean the lens. But
then we used to be able to manage perfectly well without reversing
cameras, though rear windows used to be wider and deeper so had better
visibility...

The latest Golf actually helps you with reversing with a trailer
using the reversing camera. Handy with the hatches that now
have higher back window bottom edges. You cant see an unloaded
trailer at all when backing with the Getz. The 73 Golf was fine.

I'd also have put the "outside temperature" display somewhere that the
passenger can see (on the central LCD display, alongside time, average mpg
etc) rather than in the centre of the speedo where it's only visible to
the driver. Silly little thing, but other cars (eg my Pug) get it right,
so Honda should copy them.

Yeah, one of the cars I have been reading the manuals of has
a massive great screen in the middle of the dash and is very
easy to configure what you want displayed on it. Forget which
car now. I'd love to fine a car that has the 360 degree cameras
on it when parking showing on a split screen the two cameras
which have the closest obstruction, automatically.

And like so many cars, the hazard-lights switch is in a criminally
dangerous place: in an emergency you have to take your eyes off the road
and fumble blindly towards the middle of the dashboard to hit it if you
suddenly come up behind a stationary car on a motorway, when in my mind
the hazard switch should be as accessible as the horn button - maybe on
one of the spokes of the steering wheel near your thumb or else on the end
of the indicator stalk if that's not used for the horn. I've only driven
one car, I think a Fiat Punto hire car, which had the hazard lights switch
on the end of a stalk - normally it's some random place on the dashboard -
or even on top of the steering column so you have to reach behind or
through the wheel (Ford, I'm talking about you!) In my old 5-gear Peugeot,
I got used to finding the switch by aiming my hand at the gear lever (when
I was in fifth) and then moving my finger up and right slightly, but the
new Pug has six gears so the knob is further from the dashboard in the
default top gear and anyway the switch is much higher up.

The Getz does have a big physical button right in the middle of the
top of the dash thats very obvious, but it doesnt have any digital
display at all and it would normally be where the hazard button is.

I always remember a motoring magazine years ago that had an article about
how good Scandinavian drivers were and how skilled they were at
controlling the car in snow and ice, and the interview subject was... a
woman (as if to say "wow, women can be even better than men" - all very
sexist and very 1970s). And the article made a point of saying that the
driver could instinctively hit any switch, blindfold (they tested her). I
think modern placement of hazard lights switches fails that test ;-)

Yeah, but I can see why the modern big digital screens have conflicted with
that now.

I agree with you about the hazard switch and where it should be on the
steering wheel.
More important than the horn in many ways and it shouldnt be hard to do
both well.

"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 22/02/2019 13:01, NY wrote:
"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...

Do they still use gas marks rather than degrees Celsius in gas ovens? I
haven't seen an explanation why gas ovens use these arbitrary numbers
rather than degrees (Fahrenheit or Celsius), though I have some ideas
why it might have happened.

Yes I've never understood why gas ovens historically used arbitrary "gas
marks".

My *guess* is that gas ovens were the first to have thermostats, as it is
easy to regulate gas flow with a tap, whereas the thermostats in electric
ovens work by switching the power on and off - hard to do without sparking
the contacts with the switches at that time. (I'm thinking of the 1930s
here.) I imagine electric ovens would have had a high/medium/low switch
and a thermometer in the door like the later Baby Belling table top
cookers.

Perhaps the makers of the first thermostatic gas ovens lacked confidence
in their accuracy; or it was thought that degrees Fahrenheit would confuse
housewives and simple numbers would be easier for them. In any case, they
screwed up as presumably the original scale went from 1 (275 °F) to 9 (475
°F) and they realised that they needed an extra two marks for lower
temperatures: ½ (250 °F) and ¼ (225 °F).

Yeah, I bet it was done with numbers to keep it simple
when they were free to do anything they liked given
that theirs was the only common product around
that allowed you to set the oven temp. The only
alternative was the Aga style ovens with no control
knob doing anything, just a mechanical thing.

This is all guesswork, however.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I've never come across a gas cooker with an oven which doesn't have a
thermostat and which relies on a constant flow of gas no matter whether
the oven is cold or up to temp. Even my mum's old 1962 cooker gave a big
flame when you lit it, which reduced to a smaller flame when the oven
was up to temperature.

Sure, but that wasnt done with a thermostat.

I'm not sure whether the temperature sensor reduced the gas flow to a
constant intermediate value when the oven was at temp,

Not in the thermostat sense, it basically reduces
the gas flow as the temperature increases.

I think we're in danger of splitting hairs here (as opposed to splitting
hares, as I once saw someone write, which is leporine butchery!). I tend
to think of a thermostat as something which keeps the temperature
constant, by means of some sort of feedback loop - whether that is
achieved by gradually reducing the heating effect until thermal
equilibrium is reached, or whether by cruder full-on/full-off control
every so often.

Thats not possible with the traditional gas
oven which has no electronics involved at all.

You could design a gas-oven thermostat that had a bimetallic strip which
flipped between two states (as in a central heating thermostat) which
turned the gas full on or else to a minimum level that just kept the flame
alight. That is probably a classic thermostat that you are thinking of.
But it so happens that it is possible to control the flow of gas much more
finely without any energy loss by partially opening a valve, whereas doing
the same thing with electricity requires huge rheostats or big power
transistors, either way with a heat sink and significant energy loss when
half-way on. So electric cookers have a simple switch - and rely on plenty
of thermal inertia in the heating element and the air within the oven.

But either way it's temperature sensitive and reduces gas flow to achieve
constant temperature, rather than a simple partially-open valve which has
no thermal feedback to alter the gas flow once the temperature reaches the
desired level and to increase it temporarily if the oven door is opened
and the oven cools a bit more.

I'm not sure how rapid the cutoff is for a gas "regulo" but I think it's
fairly abrupt - full gas to get the oven up to temp as fast as possible,
then reduce to a fixed level appropriate to the temperature selected, with
minor adjustments in flow rate if the temperature happens to go a bit high
or low.

Bit hard to do that with a bimetallic thing which is
entirely mechanical and which has say 8 set points tho.

And all done mechanically - on older cookers, anyway.

True.

Modern ones probably use temperature sensors and electronic logic

Yes, the manuals say you can set the temperature you want like with an
electric oven.

to replicate the mechanical "logic" that controlled the flow rate as the
temperature approached the one it was set at.

Wouldnt be hard to have it go flat out until it gets
to temperature and then back of the valve using a
stepper motor so it isnt on/off when at the set point,
set the valve to deliver a roughly constant temp that
still reacts when say the door is opened to check on
how whats being cooked is going by jabbing it with
a skewer etc

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:19:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Sorry. I don't remember ever seeing you ask about reliability.

No problem, thanks for the reply now.

Looks like two endlessly driveling senile idiots have found each other! BG

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:25:07 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Yeah, I bet it was done with numbers to keep it simple
when they were free to do anything they liked given
that theirs was the only common product around
that allowed you to set the oven temp. The only
alternative was the Aga style ovens with no control
knob doing anything, just a mechanical thing.

You senile idiots can make of ANY topic a senile driveling orgy, eh, senile
Rot! BG


--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 11:34:32 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

Wouldn¢t be hard to have it go flat out until it gets
to temperature and then back of the valve using a
stepper motor so it isnt on/off when at the set point,
set the valve to deliver a roughly constant temp that
still reacts when say the door is opened to check on
how whats being cooked is going by jabbing it with
a skewer etc

Good Lord! For how long are you senile idiots still going to go on like
that? tsk

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On 22/02/2019 12:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/02/2019 09:22, RJH wrote:
On 22/02/2019 09:15, Robin wrote:
On 22/02/2019 08:41, RJH wrote:
snip
Probably not worth it. But convenient and accurate
filling/dispensing for just what's used, an insulating shell, and
variable temperature may well be worth considering.

I agree about variable temperature, although the working group in the
previous EU programme were rather cack-handed in handling the fact
that most things don't need water at 100 degrees but "some tea
drinkers insist on" boiling water.


Well yes, I do as it goes. I've got one of those one-cup water heater
things, and tea definitely tastes different with the c.90C water it
dispenses. But fine for herbal teas, instant coffee, minor washups.



You have the wrong sort.. the ones that heat for about 40 seconds and
then dispense put out boiling water, they have to as its the steam that
propels the water out all in one go.

The ones that trickle don't put out boiling water.


Well, it's one of these:

https://www.breville.co.uk/breakfast/hot-water-dispensers/hot-cup-hot-water-dispenser/VKJ142-01.html

and it seems steam propelled - it simmers for about 20 seconds and then
dumps the water into a cup over 10 seconds or so. And while very hot, by
the time it's in the cup it's not boiling.

I can't think the difference with a kettle is that great, but I notice it.

--
Cheers, Rob

Does this Breville heat up all of its 1.5 litres of water or just a cupful?
That would save energy if it did.

https://www.breville.co.uk/breakfast...VKJ142-01.html

George

On Saturday, February 23, 2019 at 1:01:51 PM UTC, RJH wrote:
On 22/02/2019 12:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/02/2019 09:22, RJH wrote:
On 22/02/2019 09:15, Robin wrote:
On 22/02/2019 08:41, RJH wrote:
snip
Probably not worth it. But convenient and accurate
filling/dispensing for just what's used, an insulating shell, and
variable temperature may well be worth considering.

I agree about variable temperature, although the working group in the
previous EU programme were rather cack-handed in handling the fact
that most things don't need water at 100 degrees but "some tea
drinkers insist on" boiling water.


Well yes, I do as it goes. I've got one of those one-cup water heater
things, and tea definitely tastes different with the c.90C water it
dispenses. But fine for herbal teas, instant coffee, minor washups.



You have the wrong sort.. the ones that heat for about 40 seconds and
then dispense put out boiling water, they have to as its the steam that
propels the water out all in one go.

The ones that trickle don't put out boiling water.


Well, it's one of these:

https://www.breville.co.uk/breakfast/hot-water-dispensers/hot-cup-hot-water-dispenser/VKJ142-01.html

and it seems steam propelled - it simmers for about 20 seconds and then
dumps the water into a cup over 10 seconds or so. And while very hot, by
the time it's in the cup it's not boiling.

I can't think the difference with a kettle is that great, but I notice it.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 23/02/2019 14:12, George Miles wrote:
Does this Breville heat up all of its 1.5 litres of water or just a cupful?
That would save energy if it did.

https://www.breville.co.uk/breakfast...VKJ142-01.html

George


Just one cup at a time (250ml IIRC - but a mug full in any event). It's
what I wanted (and happened to be discounted at Sainsbury's when I
bought it), but you can get them with variable output.


--
Cheers, Rob

On 22/02/2019 19:41, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/02/2019 13:01, NY wrote:
"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...

Do they still use gas marks rather than degrees Celsius in gas ovens?
I haven't seen an explanation why gas ovens use these arbitrary
numbers rather than degrees (Fahrenheit or Celsius), though I have
some ideas why it might have happened.

Yes I've never understood why gas ovens historically used arbitrary
"gas marks".

My *guess* is that gas ovens were the first to have thermostats, as it
is easy to regulate gas flow with a tap, whereas the thermostats in
electric ovens work by switching the power on and off - hard to do
without sparking the contacts with the switches at that time. (I'm
thinking of the 1930s here.) I imagine electric ovens would have had a
high/medium/low switch and a thermometer in the door like the later Baby
Belling table top cookers.


More likely because houses had gas and not much electricity so they
could have a gas cooker but an electric one wouldn't have any power.


Perhaps the makers of the first thermostatic gas ovens lacked confidence
in their accuracy; or it was thought that degrees Fahrenheit would
confuse housewives and simple numbers would be easier for them. In any
case, they screwed up as presumably the original scale went from 1 (275
°F) to 9 (475 °F) and they realised that they needed an extra two marks
for lower temperatures: ½ (250 °F) and ¼ (225 °F).

This is all guesswork, however.




The scale of course was to make it simple rather than having degrees F
and now C as well.