On 09/03/2019 08:37, harry wrote:


You really are a ****-fer-brains.
My EV battery is 16Kwh capacity.
I rarely use more than a quarter of that.

So you may as well walk then.

Really green having two cars one for walking distance and one for longer
distances.
Bet you tell all your green friends how much CO2 you save even though
its a lie.


So I mostly need a couple of hours charging at 10 Amps.
Dunno why people here ramble on about topics the have zero experience of.


You don't have any experience of driving an electric car for more than a
few minutes.

And you lie about how your solar panels make it greener even though you
charge it at night when there ain't any sun.

With a two hour charge you could do it in the day if you had the brains
to think about it.

On 09/03/2019 08:32, harry wrote:

Nobody runs their EV to depletion or anywhere near. I rarely use more
then a quarter of the battery capacity.

That's why they are useless for most people you idiot.

On 09/03/2019 08:45, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 11:50:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

8

A Tesla with its more practical 130kWh battery would take more than
two and a half full days to charge at the charge rate delivered
with your charger.


How many people here will be buying a Tesla? How many people people
will run it to depletion? The answer is none of them. Most will run
it nowhere near depletion.

95% of people use their EV for commuting and will be able to charge
their car overnight from a 13a socket. EVs mostly have batteries of
25Kwh or less.

Lets look at that..

25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.
So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

If you run at motorway speeds that will easily be twice that.

There is no recovery from braking unless you are stuck in a queue.

If you commute is less than five miles you may as well use a bike.




You really are a ****e for brains. A Kwh takes most EVs four to five
miles due to regeneration and much higher efficiency.


When you start calling John Rumm stupid we know you have lost it!

On 09/03/2019 08:45, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 11:50:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:04, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 11:44:34 UTC, wrote:
Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for storing daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need charging overnight....

I have been informed that my 80a cutout is only sufficient for charging 1 vehicle. If I want to charge two vehicles overnight, I have to have the cutout upgraded to 100a and possibly the service Cable to the cutout.....

So a detached garage having a 3 core 25mm2 SWA cable does not now seem excessive to put in while the trench is still open instead of that 6mm2 or 10mm2 SWA cable.....

Overnight EV charging is very low current.
My EV charger is only 10 Amps.

That's because you have car with the battery capacity comparable to a
bulk pack of AAs from Poundland.

Most dedicated chargers (i.e. hard wired rather than plug in) will draw 6kW.

A Tesla with its more practical 130kWh battery would take more than two
and a half full days to charge at the charge rate delivered with your
charger.


How many people here will be buying a Tesla?

In the future? I don't know, and neither do you. However the point
stands, that before EVs can become mainstream, they need more battery
capacity. Something that can do a real 250+ miles in all weathers and
conditions is going to be a realistic minimum for most buyers.

How many people people will run it to depletion?

Very few - which increases the required capacity.

The answer is none of them.

Logic is not your thing is it?

Most will run it nowhere near depletion.

And hence will need larger rather than smaller batteries, unless you
also have a plan to move the places they frequent closer together?

95% of people use their EV for commuting and will be able to charge their car overnight from a 13a socket.

Yup they can charge it - a little bit.

EVs mostly have batteries of 25Kwh or less.

The older toy ones yes. Newer models are getting a bit more practical:

2018 Tesla Model S 100D €“ 100 kWh.
2018 Tesla Model X 100D €“ 100 kWh.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range €“ 80.5 kWh.
2018 Chevy Bolt €“ 60 kWh.
2018 Nissan LEAF €“ 40 kWh.
2017 Volkswagen e-Golf €“ 35.8 kWh.
2018 Ford Focus Electric €“ 33.5 kWh.

And most of those could use significantly more...

You really are a ****e for brains.

From you, I take that as a compliment.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:36:40 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 08/03/2019 13:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/03/2019 06:23, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 7 March 2019 21:14:03 UTC, dennis@home* wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 16:55:02 UTC, Rod Speed* wrote:
wrote

Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for
storing
daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need
charging overnight....

Don’t believe that, particularly with most in here, they'll be dead
first.



I have had an electric car for seven years.
The charge leads supplied with electric cars range from 10 to 13 amps.
They go into a domestic socket.


Not if you have a 32A charger they don't.

You don't need one for overnight charging.


But I want a car that can do 150 miles on a charge and yours obviously
can't as it runs on a couple of AA batteries.

Stick with what you know something about and it isn't electric cars!




Even the basic Nissan Leaf says it has a max range of 168 miles (if
driven in eco mode) but it take 21 hours to fully charge it with a 13A
plug and socket.

Now I am sure that EV charging point grants do not apply to a place of
work. A pity really as a car sat in a car park at work for 8 hours would
be an excellent place to put it on trickle charge.

Oh but hang on, all the DBs at work are fully loaded so we cannot
provide another 80A for the 10 employees to charge their cars.

It take me 5 minutes to fill my car up and give it a 600 mile range. It
takes me 7 minutes to fill up the van and give it a 500 mile range. And
that's with the heaters on full blast when am driving it.
How many watts does a electric car heater dissapate? Is sitting in the
car in winter waiting for the ice tomelt still an option with electric
cars?
Nicads were prone to all kinds of disorders like charge memory are EVs
still prone to them?

Malc

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
Nobody runs their EV to depletion or anywhere near. I rarely use more
then a quarter of the battery capacity.

That's why they are useless for most people you idiot.

Harry probably only uses it for driving round to see all his friend.

--
*Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
mal %% wrote:
Nicads were prone to all kinds of disorders like charge memory are EVs
still prone to them?


Have you not noticed that Li-Ion are a far better battery than NiCads?
Like in a mobile phone, laptop, etc?

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 9 March 2019 12:14:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/03/2019 08:45, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 11:50:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:04, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 11:44:34 UTC, wrote:
Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for storing daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need charging overnight....

I have been informed that my 80a cutout is only sufficient for charging 1 vehicle. If I want to charge two vehicles overnight, I have to have the cutout upgraded to 100a and possibly the service Cable to the cutout......

So a detached garage having a 3 core 25mm2 SWA cable does not now seem excessive to put in while the trench is still open instead of that 6mm2 or 10mm2 SWA cable.....

Overnight EV charging is very low current.
My EV charger is only 10 Amps.

That's because you have car with the battery capacity comparable to a
bulk pack of AAs from Poundland.

Most dedicated chargers (i.e. hard wired rather than plug in) will draw 6kW.

A Tesla with its more practical 130kWh battery would take more than two
and a half full days to charge at the charge rate delivered with your
charger.


How many people here will be buying a Tesla?

In the future? I don't know, and neither do you. However the point
stands, that before EVs can become mainstream, they need more battery
capacity. Something that can do a real 250+ miles in all weathers and
conditions is going to be a realistic minimum for most buyers.

How many people people will run it to depletion?

Very few - which increases the required capacity.

The answer is none of them.

Logic is not your thing is it?

Most will run it nowhere near depletion.

And hence will need larger rather than smaller batteries, unless you
also have a plan to move the places they frequent closer together?

95% of people use their EV for commuting and will be able to charge their car overnight from a 13a socket.

Yup they can charge it - a little bit.

EVs mostly have batteries of 25Kwh or less.

The older toy ones yes. Newer models are getting a bit more practical:

2018 Tesla Model S 100D €“ 100 kWh.
2018 Tesla Model X 100D €“ 100 kWh.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range €“ 80.5 kWh.
2018 Chevy Bolt €“ 60 kWh.
2018 Nissan LEAF €“ 40 kWh.
2017 Volkswagen e-Golf €“ 35.8 kWh.
2018 Ford Focus Electric €“ 33.5 kWh.

And most of those could use significantly more...

You really are a ****e for brains.

From you, I take that as a compliment.


https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ric-cars-study

The trouble with bigger batteries is cost and added wieght/reduced performance..

Also there has been problems with battery degradation with the new batteries,

On 09/03/2019 10:23, dennis@home wrote:



If you commute is less than five miles you may as well use a bike.


There already too many cyclists on the road.

--
Adam

On 09/03/2019 13:03, mal wrote:
How many watts does a electric car heater dissapate? Is sitting in the
car in winter waiting for the ice tomelt still an option with electric
cars?

Why would you sit in the car? AIUI some of them will pre-warm themselves
while still connected to the mains so they are nice and toasty when you
get in.

Andy

On 09/03/2019 17:21, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 09/03/2019 13:03, mal wrote:
How many watts does a electric car heater dissapate? Is sitting in the
car in winter waiting for the ice tomelt still an option with electric
cars?

Why would you sit in the car? AIUI some of them will pre-warm themselves
while still connected to the mains so they are nice and toasty when you
get in.

Andy
very true

--
I believe in a better world where Chickens can cross the road without
having their motives questioned
Ask your doctor if medical advice from a TV advert or brian reay is
right for you
What if the hokey cokey IS what it is all about ?
Life is too short to wait for windows 10 updates

On 09/03/2019 16:02, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 9 March 2019 12:14:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/03/2019 08:45, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 11:50:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:04, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 11:44:34 UTC, wrote:
Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for storing daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need charging overnight....

I have been informed that my 80a cutout is only sufficient for charging 1 vehicle. If I want to charge two vehicles overnight, I have to have the cutout upgraded to 100a and possibly the service Cable to the cutout.....

So a detached garage having a 3 core 25mm2 SWA cable does not now seem excessive to put in while the trench is still open instead of that 6mm2 or 10mm2 SWA cable.....

Overnight EV charging is very low current.
My EV charger is only 10 Amps.

That's because you have car with the battery capacity comparable to a
bulk pack of AAs from Poundland.

Most dedicated chargers (i.e. hard wired rather than plug in) will draw 6kW.

A Tesla with its more practical 130kWh battery would take more than two
and a half full days to charge at the charge rate delivered with your
charger.


How many people here will be buying a Tesla?

In the future? I don't know, and neither do you. However the point
stands, that before EVs can become mainstream, they need more battery
capacity. Something that can do a real 250+ miles in all weathers and
conditions is going to be a realistic minimum for most buyers.

How many people people will run it to depletion?

Very few - which increases the required capacity.

The answer is none of them.

Logic is not your thing is it?

Most will run it nowhere near depletion.

And hence will need larger rather than smaller batteries, unless you
also have a plan to move the places they frequent closer together?

95% of people use their EV for commuting and will be able to charge their car overnight from a 13a socket.

Yup they can charge it - a little bit.

EVs mostly have batteries of 25Kwh or less.

The older toy ones yes. Newer models are getting a bit more practical:

2018 Tesla Model S 100D €“ 100 kWh.
2018 Tesla Model X 100D €“ 100 kWh.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range €“ 80.5 kWh.
2018 Chevy Bolt €“ 60 kWh.
2018 Nissan LEAF €“ 40 kWh.
2017 Volkswagen e-Golf €“ 35.8 kWh.
2018 Ford Focus Electric €“ 33.5 kWh.

And most of those could use significantly more...

You really are a ****e for brains.

From you, I take that as a compliment.


https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ric-cars-study

The trouble with bigger batteries is cost and added wieght/reduced performance..

Also there has been problems with battery degradation with the new batteries,



So basically EVs are **** then?

--
Adam

On 09/03/2019 08:37, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 20:28:52 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/03/2019 19:36, ARW wrote:
On 08/03/2019 13:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/03/2019 06:23, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 7 March 2019 21:14:03 UTC, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 16:55:02 UTC, Rod SpeedÂ* wrote:
wrote

Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for
storing
daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need
charging overnight....

Dont believe that, particularly with most in here, they'll be
dead first.



I have had an electric car for seven years.
The charge leads supplied with electric cars range from 10 to 13 amps.
They go into a domestic socket.


Not if you have a 32A charger they don't.

You don't need one for overnight charging.


But I want a car that can do 150 miles on a charge and yours
obviously can't as it runs on a couple of AA batteries.

Stick with what you know something about and it isn't electric cars!




Even the basic Nissan Leaf says it has a max range of 168 miles (if
driven in eco mode) but it take 21 hours to fully charge it with a 13A
plug and socket.

Not a problem harry says it will charge overnight from a 13A socket.
He must live above the arctic circle where nights are 24hrs in winter.


Now I am sure that EV charging point grants do not apply to a place of
work. A pity really as a car sat in a car park at work for 8 hours would
be an excellent place to put it on trickle charge.

Oh but hang on, all the DBs at work are fully loaded so we cannot
provide another 80A for the 10 employees to charge their cars.

Just turn everything else off or run them from a generator.
Its green to run an electric car wherever the electricity comes from
isn't it?


It take me 5 minutes to fill my car up and give it a 600 mile range. It
takes me 7 minutes to fill up the van and give it a 500 mile range. And
that's with the heaters on full blast whenÂ* am driving it.

I have never managed to fill mine that quick.
I need to go to a garage that has the hgv button on the pump so it goes
faster.

You really are a ****-fer-brains.
My EV battery is 16Kwh capacity.
I rarely use more than a quarter of that.
So I mostly need a couple of hours charging at 10 Amps.
Dunno why people here ramble on about topics the have zero experience of.



So you do about 12 miles on a round trip journey?

That would just get me over half the way to the office.

--
Adam

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.


If you run at motorway speeds that will easily be twice that.

Only if you were referring to the energy consumed per unit distance. If
you assume a steady 70mph versus the 35mph, you will need at least four
times the power (double the rpm with at least double the torque to
overcome the doubled up aerodynamic drag forces). Four times the power in
half the time represents twice as much energy (KWHs) per unit distance.

I've assumed low Reynolds numbers here (35 to 70 mph speed range). At
high Reynolds numbers (150mph and faster?), the power required to
overcome aerodynamic drag eventually transitions to the cube of the speed.


There is no recovery from braking unless you are stuck in a queue.

That makes no sense.


If you commute is less than five miles you may as well use a bike.

That rather depends on the nature of the journey and the fitness of the
commuter. For someone in good health with no need to carry excess
baggage, that can be a very cost effective way to justify the consumption
of an extra Mars Bar or two without the risk of joining the ranks of the
morbidly obese.

However of course, this mode of travel has a higher micromort rating
than that of travelling by private car, you just might end up a skinny
dead person with more willing coffin bearers at your funeral. :-(


--
Johnny B Good

On 09/03/2019 08:32, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 19:36:43 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 08/03/2019 13:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/03/2019 06:23, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 7 March 2019 21:14:03 UTC, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 16:55:02 UTC, Rod SpeedÂ* wrote:
wrote

Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for
storing
daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need
charging overnight....

Dont believe that, particularly with most in here, they'll be dead
first.



I have had an electric car for seven years.
The charge leads supplied with electric cars range from 10 to 13 amps.
They go into a domestic socket.


Not if you have a 32A charger they don't.

You don't need one for overnight charging.


But I want a car that can do 150 miles on a charge and yours obviously
can't as it runs on a couple of AA batteries.

Stick with what you know something about and it isn't electric cars!




Even the basic Nissan Leaf says it has a max range of 168 miles (if
driven in eco mode) but it take 21 hours to fully charge it with a 13A
plug and socket.

Now I am sure that EV charging point grants do not apply to a place of
work. A pity really as a car sat in a car park at work for 8 hours would
be an excellent place to put it on trickle charge.

Oh but hang on, all the DBs at work are fully loaded so we cannot
provide another 80A for the 10 employees to charge their cars.

It take me 5 minutes to fill my car up and give it a 600 mile range. It
takes me 7 minutes to fill up the van and give it a 500 mile range. And
that's with the heaters on full blast when am driving it.



--
Adam

Nobody runs their EV to depletion or anywhere near. I rarely use more then a quarter of the battery capacity.


Your battery is not the only thing that you only use at a quarter of
capacity.

--
Adam

On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.
But going fast is not good.
Definitely not motorways.
Low ambient temperature reduces range (affects batteries).
Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

"mal" %% wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:36:40 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 08/03/2019 13:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/03/2019 06:23, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 7 March 2019 21:14:03 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/03/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 17 February 2019 16:55:02 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote

Point 3 is important particularly for detached garages used for
storing
daily use vehicles overnight.

Eventually we will all be driving electric vehicles which will need
charging overnight....

Don't believe that, particularly with most in here, they'll be dead
first.



I have had an electric car for seven years.
The charge leads supplied with electric cars range from 10 to 13
amps.
They go into a domestic socket.


Not if you have a 32A charger they don't.

You don't need one for overnight charging.


But I want a car that can do 150 miles on a charge and yours obviously
can't as it runs on a couple of AA batteries.

Stick with what you know something about and it isn't electric cars!




Even the basic Nissan Leaf says it has a max range of 168 miles (if
driven in eco mode) but it take 21 hours to fully charge it with a 13A
plug and socket.

Now I am sure that EV charging point grants do not apply to a place of
work. A pity really as a car sat in a car park at work for 8 hours would
be an excellent place to put it on trickle charge.

Oh but hang on, all the DBs at work are fully loaded so we cannot
provide another 80A for the 10 employees to charge their cars.

It take me 5 minutes to fill my car up and give it a 600 mile range. It
takes me 7 minutes to fill up the van and give it a 500 mile range. And
that's with the heaters on full blast when am driving it.

How many watts does a electric car heater dissapate? Is sitting in the
car in winter waiting for the ice tomelt still an option with electric
cars?

Nope, not unless you don't want to go far.

Nicads were prone to all kinds of disorders like charge memory

No modern EVs use them.

are EVs still prone to them?

Nope, they have new ones like catching fire spectacularly at times.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:29:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Nope

LOL

No

LOL

Nope

LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On 09/03/2019 08:37, harry wrote:

snip

You really are a ****-fer-brains.
My EV battery is 16Kwh capacity.
I rarely use more than a quarter of that.
So I mostly need a couple of hours charging at 10 Amps.

OMG 2 hours to do 12 miles? I could probably walk quicker overall.
Certain running I could.

Dunno why people here ramble on about topics the have zero experience of.

You're a very good advert of what to avoid with yours.

You really are a ****-fer-brains.

Question Harry..

Do you go round calling people "****-fer-brains" in the big world or
haven't you got the guts to?

Happy behind that little keyboard are you?...



My EV battery is 16Kwh capacity.
I rarely use more than a quarter of that.
So I mostly need a couple of hours charging at 10 Amps.
Dunno why people here ramble on about topics the have zero experience of.

--
Tony Sayer

On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

Yes I have, there isn't any unless you keep slowing and stopping.
Then it takes more to accelerate back to speed.

What there is is seriously exaggerated by greens too.



But going fast is not good.
Definitely not motorways.
Low ambient temperature reduces range (affects batteries).
Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

For steady state driving, there will be very limited scope to recover
anything. The best you can hope to recover is a proportion of the KE
represented by the momentum of the car. However the vast bulk of the
losses on a motorway trip will be overcoming drag losses, and those are
not recoverable.

But going fast is not good.

Perhaps from the prospect of a doddery pensioner.

Definitely not motorways.

Again, not optional in many cases.

Low ambient temperature reduces range (affects batteries).

Only drive in summer?

Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

The better ones also have complete pumped thermal management systems for
the batteries to keep them within temperature spec. Needless to say that
also consumes additional power.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 09/03/2019 08:45, harry wrote:
On Friday, 8 March 2019 11:50:31 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

8

A Tesla with its more practical 130kWh battery would take more than
two and a half full days to charge at the charge rate delivered
with your charger.


How many people here will be buying a Tesla? How many people people
will run it to depletion? The answer is none of them. Most will run
it nowhere near depletion.

95% of people use their EV for commuting and will be able to charge
their car overnight from a 13a socket. EVs mostly have batteries of
25Kwh or less.

Lets look at that..

25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.
So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

If you run at motorway speeds that will easily be twice that.

There is no recovery from braking unless you are stuck in a queue.

If you commute is less than five miles you may as well use a bike.

Stupid to risk serious injury by using a bike.

You really are a ****e for brains. A Kwh takes most EVs four to five
miles due to regeneration and much higher efficiency.


When you start calling John Rumm stupid we know you have lost it!

On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 05:45:52 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

If you commute is less than five miles you may as well use a bike.

Stupid to risk serious injury by using a bike.

In auto-contradicting mode again, senile pest?

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On 10/03/2019 02:15, Johnny B Good wrote:
I've assumed low Reynolds numbers here (35 to 70 mph speed range). At
high Reynolds numbers (150mph and faster?), the power required to
overcome aerodynamic drag eventually transitions to the cube of the speed.

You've obviously played with this more than me - but I was under the
impression that flow over a car was turbulent, and that the drag was
proportional to the square of the speed at normal speeds. Which means
power proportional to speed cubed.

A quick google supports that view - so are you sure?

Andy

On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 21:13:19 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 10/03/2019 02:15, Johnny B Good wrote:
I've assumed low Reynolds numbers here (35 to 70 mph speed range). At
high Reynolds numbers (150mph and faster?), the power required to
overcome aerodynamic drag eventually transitions to the cube of the
speed.

You've obviously played with this more than me - but I was under the
impression that flow over a car was turbulent, and that the drag was
proportional to the square of the speed at normal speeds. Which means
power proportional to speed cubed.

A quick google supports that view - so are you sure?


I'm pretty sure it depends on the Reynolds number which varies according
the CD ratio and speed. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any examples to
indicate at what speed aerodynamic drag for a modern road car typically
starts transitioning from doubling to quadrupling with speed (power
demand going from the square of the speed to the cube of the speed).

--
Johnny B Good

On Sunday, 10 March 2019 13:08:19 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

Yes I have, there isn't any unless you keep slowing and stopping.
Then it takes more to accelerate back to speed.

What there is is seriously exaggerated by greens too.

How would you know?
Obviously there are no hills where you live.

On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.


If you run at motorway speeds that will easily be twice that.

Only if you were referring to the energy consumed per unit distance. If
you assume a steady 70mph versus the 35mph, you will need at least four
times the power (double the rpm with at least double the torque to
overcome the doubled up aerodynamic drag forces). Four times the power in
half the time represents twice as much energy (KWHs) per unit distance.

I've assumed low Reynolds numbers here (35 to 70 mph speed range). At
high Reynolds numbers (150mph and faster?), the power required to
overcome aerodynamic drag eventually transitions to the cube of the speed.


There is no recovery from braking unless you are stuck in a queue.

That makes no sense.


If you commute is less than five miles you may as well use a bike.

That rather depends on the nature of the journey and the fitness of the
commuter. For someone in good health with no need to carry excess
baggage, that can be a very cost effective way to justify the consumption
of an extra Mars Bar or two without the risk of joining the ranks of the
morbidly obese.

However of course, this mode of travel has a higher micromort rating
than that of travelling by private car, you just might end up a skinny
dead person with more willing coffin bearers at your funeral. :-(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation
Drag varies with the square of Speed.

On Sunday, 10 March 2019 21:13:19 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 10/03/2019 02:15, Johnny B Good wrote:
I've assumed low Reynolds numbers here (35 to 70 mph speed range). At
high Reynolds numbers (150mph and faster?), the power required to
overcome aerodynamic drag eventually transitions to the cube of the speed.

You've obviously played with this more than me - but I was under the
impression that flow over a car was turbulent, and that the drag was
proportional to the square of the speed at normal speeds. Which means
power proportional to speed cubed.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

On 11/03/2019 08:19, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 13:08:19 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

Yes I have, there isn't any unless you keep slowing and stopping.
Then it takes more to accelerate back to speed.

What there is is seriously exaggerated by greens too.

How would you know?
Obviously there are no hills where you live.

What part of "steady 70 mph on a motorway" do you fail to understand?

Even if there are hills, all that will change is an increase in power
required when going up, and a reduction when coming down. At 70 mph you
will require power output at all times to maintain the speed even going
downhill, so there will be nothing to recover.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 11 March 2019 17:00:28 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:19, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 13:08:19 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

Yes I have, there isn't any unless you keep slowing and stopping.
Then it takes more to accelerate back to speed.

What there is is seriously exaggerated by greens too.

How would you know?
Obviously there are no hills where you live.

What part of "steady 70 mph on a motorway" do you fail to understand?

Even if there are hills, all that will change is an increase in power
required when going up, and a reduction when coming down. At 70 mph you
will require power output at all times to maintain the speed even going
downhill, so there will be nothing to recover.


There are no steep hills on motorways.
The regenerative braking is adjustable.
Set according to terrain an bends in road.

On Sunday, 10 March 2019 14:10:52 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

For steady state driving, there will be very limited scope to recover
anything. The best you can hope to recover is a proportion of the KE
represented by the momentum of the car. However the vast bulk of the
losses on a motorway trip will be overcoming drag losses, and those are
not recoverable.

But going fast is not good.

Perhaps from the prospect of a doddery pensioner.

Definitely not motorways.

Again, not optional in many cases.

Low ambient temperature reduces range (affects batteries).

Only drive in summer?

Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

The better ones also have complete pumped thermal management systems for
the batteries to keep them within temperature spec. Needless to say that
also consumes additional power.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|----------------------------------------------------------------- only when charging (there is no airflow).
Mine uses the AC but only on fast charge.

On 11/03/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
There are no steep hills on motorways.
The regenerative braking is adjustable.
Set according to terrain an bends in road.

That's John's point.

At all times on a motorway you are putting energy in to overcome the
(mostly air) drag. There aren't any steep hills, nor any sharp bends
that you'd slow down for and get energy back.

Andy

On 11/03/2019 21:30, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/03/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
There are no steep hills on motorways.
The regenerative braking is adjustable.
Set according to terrain an bends in road.

That's John's point.

At all times on a motorway you are putting energy in to overcome the
(mostly air) drag. There aren't any steep hills, nor any sharp bends
that you'd slow down for and get energy back.

Andy

harry is a green, they don't understand anything to do with energy.

On 11/03/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 17:00:28 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:19, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 13:08:19 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

Yes I have, there isn't any unless you keep slowing and stopping.
Then it takes more to accelerate back to speed.

What there is is seriously exaggerated by greens too.

How would you know?
Obviously there are no hills where you live.

What part of "steady 70 mph on a motorway" do you fail to understand?

Even if there are hills, all that will change is an increase in power
required when going up, and a reduction when coming down. At 70 mph you
will require power output at all times to maintain the speed even going
downhill, so there will be nothing to recover.


There are no steep hills on motorways.
The regenerative braking is adjustable. Set according to terrain an bends in road.

And at a constant speed on a motorway, as much use a chocolate fire guard.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/03/2019 17:38, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 14:10:52 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:

Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

The better ones also have complete pumped thermal management systems for
the batteries to keep them within temperature spec. Needless to say that
also consumes additional power.

only when charging (there is no airflow).

No, for use when driving as well. They are called Battery Thermal
Management Systems. In very cold conditions they need to heat the
battery, not cool it.

Mine uses the AC but only on fast charge.

not one of the better ones then...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/03/2019 23:21, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 17:00:28 UTC, John RummÂ* wrote:
On 11/03/2019 08:19, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 13:08:19 UTC, dennis@homeÂ* wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:15:56 UTC, Johnny B GoodÂ* wrote:
On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 10:23:31 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

====snip====


25kW for motor running a car at about 35-40mph.

Â*Â*Â* More like 2 to 5 KW at a steady 35 to 40mph on the level...

So five miles will use about 8 minutes at 25kW.
That is about 3.4 kWHr.

Â*Â*Â* Assume 5KW consumption and 35mph. That's 8.57 minutes which
works out to
some 0.7KWH's worth of energy from the battery.

You haven't allowed for energy recovery by regeneration.

Yes I have, there isn't any unless you keep slowing and stopping.
Then it takes more to accelerate back to speed.

What there is is seriously exaggerated by greens too.

How would you know?
Obviously there are no hills where you live.

What part of "steady 70 mph on a motorway" do you fail to understand?

Even if there are hills, all that will change is an increase in power
required when going up, and a reduction when coming down. At 70 mph you
will require power output at all times to maintain the speed even going
downhill, so there will be nothing to recover.


There are no steep hills on motorways.
The regenerative braking is adjustable. Set according to terrain an
bends in road.

And at a constant speed on a motorway, as much use a chocolate fire guard.



It doesn't even work on a 50 mph road.
About the only time it works is in traffic jams.
Even then you are lucky to get a few percent back.
You will of course use more through the AC/heating because your journey
takes longer than you can get back from any regeneration in those
circumstances.

On Monday, 11 March 2019 21:30:17 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 11/03/2019 17:37, harry wrote:
There are no steep hills on motorways.
The regenerative braking is adjustable.
Set according to terrain an bends in road.

That's John's point.

At all times on a motorway you are putting energy in to overcome the
(mostly air) drag. There aren't any steep hills, nor any sharp bends
that you'd slow down for and get energy back.

Andy

That's why I said not suitable for motorways.

On Monday, 11 March 2019 23:28:36 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 17:38, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 14:10:52 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:

Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

The better ones also have complete pumped thermal management systems for
the batteries to keep them within temperature spec. Needless to say that
also consumes additional power.

only when charging (there is no airflow).

No, for use when driving as well. They are called Battery Thermal
Management Systems. In very cold conditions they need to heat the
battery, not cool it.


Cold like Siberia/USA, not the UK.

On 12/03/2019 07:54, harry wrote:
On Monday, 11 March 2019 23:28:36 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/03/2019 17:38, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 10 March 2019 14:10:52 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2019 07:48, harry wrote:

Some cars have heat pumps for cab heating.

The better ones also have complete pumped thermal management systems for
the batteries to keep them within temperature spec. Needless to say that
also consumes additional power.

only when charging (there is no airflow).

No, for use when driving as well. They are called Battery Thermal
Management Systems. In very cold conditions they need to heat the
battery, not cool it.


Cold like Siberia/USA, not the UK.

I see you have not read the link *you* posted earlier then...

Any time you charge or draw current from the battery and its outside a
defined temperature range you will get accelerated battery ageing and
hence loss of capacity and possibly reduced peek current delivery.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/