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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse
and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...i-1345914-.htm |
#2
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote:
Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A conventional boiler with a cold water tank and a hot water cylinder allows the use of an immersion heater to provide hot water if the boiler fails. Simpler boiler with less to go wrong. Ultimately it is up to you to decide which alternative you prefer. I am just about to go to a property which has a system combi boiler that is not working, so I will be cold and have no hot water (kettles apart) until I fix the problem. -- Michael Chare |
#3
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote:
Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. |
#4
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote:
On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Combi = ****ing awful unless you get a huge one -- €œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell |
#5
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote: On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Combi = ****ing awful unless you get a huge one Combis are good for a small house or flat. They can only realistically supply a single outlet with hot water. They are usually much larger than needed for heating so often cycle on and off. |
#6
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On Monday, 11 February 2019 16:50:05 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Combi = ****ing awful unless you get a huge one My first experience of a combi was having to turn the shower up to blast otherwise the combi kept cutting out. £££waste. NT |
#7
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote: On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Can depend on location. Thermal store in old house suffered from major scale up in the small bore pipes that run through the thermal store to provide HW. Filling a bath ended up being so slow that water was cooling down faster than hot water being supplied. Just barely acceptable for shower or washing up. Probably worse than a combi. A Water softener may have helped but there wasn't one fitted, Combi = ****ing awful unless you get a huge one -- Chris B (News) |
#8
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 17:45, Chris B wrote:
On 11/02/2019 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote: On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Can depend on location.Â* Thermal store in old house suffered from major scale up in the small bore pipes that run through the thermal store to provide HW.Â* Filling a bath ended up being so slow that water was cooling down faster than hot water being supplied.Â* Just barely acceptable for shower or washing up.Â* Probably worse than a combi. A Water softener may have helped but there wasn't one fitted, Might have been a pain to do but I don't see a problem with running a descaler through the coils. |
#9
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 17:45, Chris B wrote:
On 11/02/2019 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote: On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Can depend on location.Â* Thermal store in old house suffered from major scale up in the small bore pipes that run through the thermal store to provide HW.Â* Filling a bath ended up being so slow that water was cooling down faster than hot water being supplied.Â* Just barely acceptable for shower or washing up.Â* Probably worse than a combi. A Water softener may have helped but there wasn't one fitted, I think anyone who doesnt fit a water softener in a hard area in a property they expect to inhabit for a decade or more is a numpty The damage done to shower fitments especially is massive. Not to mention the internals of a complex hot water system I think IF you are going to upgrade a DHW system fitting a softener is probably step 1. Even a combi will scale up eventually. -- Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not. Ayn Rand. |
#10
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 17:55, Fredxx wrote:
On 11/02/2019 17:45, Chris B wrote: On 11/02/2019 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote: On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Can depend on location.Â* Thermal store in old house suffered from major scale up in the small bore pipes that run through the thermal store to provide HW.Â* Filling a bath ended up being so slow that water was cooling down faster than hot water being supplied.Â* Just barely acceptable for shower or washing up.Â* Probably worse than a combi. A Water softener may have helped but there wasn't one fitted, Might have been a pain to do but I don't see a problem with running a descaler through the coils. I think the difficulty is the problem. -- €œIdeas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance" - John K Galbraith |
#11
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/2019 17:45, Chris B wrote: On 11/02/2019 16:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 11/02/2019 16:46, Fredxx wrote: On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote: Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. A system boiler implies a conventional system. You have a choice of unvented, vented or thermal store. I went for the thermal store as the cylinder isn't pressurised so doesn't need inspection and testing while still having high pressure hot water. TBH I suppose I just did the first inspection and test of my pressurised cylinder in 16 years after replacing all the pressure bits... :-) Personally I'd still go for a pressurised system Thermal store almost as good. Can depend on location.Â* Thermal store in old house suffered from major scale up in the small bore pipes that run through the thermal store to provide HW.Â* Filling a bath ended up being so slow that water was cooling down faster than hot water being supplied.Â* Just barely acceptable for shower or washing up.Â* Probably worse than a combi. A Water softener may have helped but there wasn't one fitted, I think anyone who doesnt fit a water softener in a hard area in a property they expect to inhabit for a decade or more is a numpty Well technically it had one of these chemical cartridge type softeners https://www.amazon.co.uk/PERMUTIT-IN.../dp/B01MSJSKOT But I don't think the cartridge had ever been changed since the kitchen had been refitted. (Carpenters had made it impossible to change without removing one of the kitchen units) The damage done to shower fitments especially is massive. Not to mention the internals of a complex hot water system I think IF you are going to upgrade a DHW system fitting a softener is probably step 1. Even a combi will scale up eventually. -- Chris B (News) |
#12
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
replying to Tim+, Darksyphon wrote:
Thanks for the replys. The only thing I'm wondering is if I need the central heating side pressurised too? I like the idea of not having any tanks. But that means more gear....another pressure vessel. Just wondering if the extra reliability of a conventional boiler is worth having to add all the things seperatly that are now inside system boilers. I'm not bothered about the cost just want the best system that is reliable. Not looked into Thermal stores. Will have a read -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...i-1345914-.htm |
#13
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 19:44, Darksyphon wrote:
replying to Tim+, Darksyphon wrote: Thanks for the replys. The only thing I'm wondering is if I need the central heating side pressurised too? I like the idea of not having any tanks. But that means more gear....another pressure vessel. Just wondering if the extra reliability of a conventional boiler is worth having to add all the things seperatly that are now inside system boilers. I'm not bothered about the cost just want the best system that is reliable. Not looked into Thermal stores. Will have a read reliability is more about implementation than design. -- €œSome people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of a car with the cramped public exposure of €¨an airplane.€ Dennis Miller |
#14
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 14:44, Darksyphon wrote:
Large extension added to my 3 bed property. Combi has been a pain in the arse and now won't cut it with 2 main bathrooms. My question is should I go for a system boiler with an unvented cylinder or get a conventional boiler and have pressurised ch and again an unvented hot water cylinder? Plumbing in the extension hasn't started yet and I plan to put the unvented cylinder in the gurage. My plans were for the system boiler but I met a plumber who said to go conventional. If converting from a combi, system boiler makes sense since your won't already have a separate pump or the separate paraphernalia associated with a sealed system (since they are all in the combi). -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#15
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System boiler or conventional when replacing combi
On 11/02/2019 19:44, Darksyphon wrote:
replying to Tim+, Darksyphon wrote: Thanks for the replys. The only thing I'm wondering is if I need the central heating side pressurised too? I like the idea of not having any tanks. But that means more gear....another pressure vessel. Just wondering if the extra reliability of a conventional boiler is worth having to add all the things seperatly that are now inside system boilers. I'm not bothered about the cost Ultimately you will have the same major components, its just the location of them that changes. Note however you may be able to implement more sophisticated controls with the system boiler, to give things like split temperature operation[1] or weather compensation[2], which are harder to do with heating only boiler usually. just want the best system that is reliable. Not looked into Thermal stores. Will have a read http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...and_Heat_Banks http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Heat_Bank [1] Split temp allows you to run lower flow temps through the heating (for greater condensing efficiency) when its not desperately cold outside, but still run high temperatures when reheating the cylinder. [2] Weather compensation makes the flow temperature automatically adjust to the outside temperature, and sometimes also the heat loss characteristics of the building and sometimes also the size of the difference between the actual internal temperature and the target temp set on the room stat. So it runs hotter water through the rads on colder days, or when it needs to heat the place more quickly. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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