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Default Screw/wallplug size

I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?

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On 22/01/2019 12:48, Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


Is the object being screwed to the wall 10mm thick by any chance?

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Martin Brown wrote:

Jeff Layman wrote:

I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings.


Surprisingly, not an IKEA product.

I was somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws
supplied were of different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm,
and the screws 35mm x 3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why
would you use a 35mm screw with a 25mm wallplug?


Is the object being screwed to the wall 10mm thick by any chance?


What was my first thought, which model?

https://www.darlighting.co.uk/products/wall-lights

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On 22/01/2019 12:53, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/01/2019 12:48, Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were
of different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws
35mm x 3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm
screw with a 25mm wallplug?


Is the object being screwed to the wall 10mm thick by any chance?


Allows for 10mm of plaster?
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In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle


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On 22/01/2019 12:48, Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


As long as the hole is at least as deep as the total length of your
screw then there's no problem.
It's not like you have a high load trying to pull them out of the wall.


--
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charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?
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Default Screw/wallplug size

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


A wall plug works by the screw expanding it so it grips the brick or
whatever. The hole in the wall must be longer than the screw anyway.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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On 22/01/2019 14:19, Jim K.. wrote:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?

Mandatory in my place with 1925 lime render and skim coat.
Failing to do so pulverises about 30mm diameter area of render around
the hole into dust.


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In article ,
"Jim K.." writes:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?


Me...
Just put 6 into someone's outside wall, and was careful to make
sure they were below the render.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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On 22/01/19 12:56, Andy Burns wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:

Jeff Layman wrote:

I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings.


Surprisingly, not an IKEA product.

I was somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws
supplied were of different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm,
and the screws 35mm x 3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why
would you use a 35mm screw with a 25mm wallplug?


Is the object being screwed to the wall 10mm thick by any chance?


What was my first thought, which model?

https://www.darlighting.co.uk/products/wall-lights


BUR0975
https://www.darlighting.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/1694/s/bureau-double-wall-bracket-antique-brass-bur0975/

Needless to say, the instructions in the pack show a lot less info than
the pdf downloadable on that webpage. However, the diagram on page 4
shows the screws the same length as the wallplug! Not that it means
anything, of course, as fig 3.5 shows the cable going through a hole in
the bracket. The actual hole is 3mm in diameter! I have no idea what the
hole is for. It is also impossible to get the cable into the connector
block as Där have mounted the block deep in the body of the fitting,
giving no thought to how much cable might be available. I had to unscrew
it from the fitting before I was able to get the cable gripped properly.
But then, of course, it was not possible to get the connector block back
on its mounting. So I now have a loose block in the fitting.

NB to answer the point raised, the mounting bracket is about 1mm thick -
not 10. Considering that the weight of these fittings is pretty low, I
can see no reason for a 35mm screw; 25mm would have been fine.

As an amusing aside, these lights are going to replace the current wall
lights in the lounge, which are all picture lights. But these are all
different designs (there are two other picture lights - one in the hall,
one in the kitchen, which neither match each other nor any of the lounge
picture lights)! And then we come to the wiring, which is white PVC -
red, black, and earth, although I have yet to check if it actually /is/
earthed. And the cabling is very weird. Being a bungalow, you'd think it
pretty easy to have cables fed from the loft to the wall lights, but no.
Two of the lights do have cables from the loft. These are the two
nearest the wall switch. But only the one slightly further from the wall
switch is actually connected to it. The other, nearest, one is on a
separate unswitched cable. It is operated by a switch on the light
fitting itself. Now the one furthest away is turned on and off by the
wall switch, but not from cable in the loft. The wall switch also
controls an old 2 amp 3-pin lighting socket (which had a label on it
marked "disconnected" when we moved in!). That socket is right against
the outside wall, so whoever wanted the picture light drilled a hole
through the wall into the back of the socket, and took a spur to the
outside, through some conduit, then back into the lounge a couple of
metres away to feed the wall light.

And I have to fit a matching ceiling light. It would have to be wired up
through the loft, and it is awkward to get to. Maybe I'll get a pro in
to do that. I'm just concerned that the proverbial can of worms will be
opened if I do that...

--

Jeff
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On 22/01/2019 12:48, Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


The correct answer is to throw the screws and plugs away, then go to
your toolbox and get a pair of your decent ones...

Me: Fischer UX6 x 35 or UX6 x 50 work extremely well with 5mm screws
(will take smaller).


--
Email does not work
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On 22/01/2019 17:34, Tim Watts wrote:
On 22/01/2019 12:48, Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were
of different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws
35mm x 3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm
screw with a 25mm wallplug?


The correct answer is to throw the screws and plugs away, then go to
your toolbox and get a pair of your decent ones...

Me: Fischer UX6 x 35 or UX6 x 50 work extremely well with 5mm screws
(will take smaller).


I also like the Fischer rimless plugs but since TMH is now such an
occasional visitor I think it only fair to mention his oft-repeated
comment that Rawlplug "UNO" plugs are the mutts




--
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Robin wrote:

since TMH is now such an
occasional visitor I think it only fair to mention his oft-repeated
comment that Rawlplug "UNO" plugs are the mutts


I always keep a handful of yellow/red/brown/blue/grey ones in the tool
tote, along with corresponding sizes of bosch multi-material drills


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Bob Minchin Wrote in message:
On 22/01/2019 14:19, Jim K.. wrote:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?

You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?

Mandatory in my place with 1925 lime render and skim coat.
Failing to do so pulverises about 30mm diameter area of render around
the hole into dust.


Render?
He said plaster...
--
Jim K


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What's so good about Rawlplug Uno? I notice they don't have a hole at the far end - is it intended that the screw goes through the end of the plug?

I've always been a bit of a fan of Plasplugs myself
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Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?

Io screw a 10mm something on with?
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"Jim K.." Wrote in message:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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I do. Sand/cement skimmed plastered wall. Two reasons, one to
avoid risk of plaster cracking, two I am securing item to the
brick, not the plaster. I often discard supplied screws and plugs
and fit longer ones.
--
Biggles


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On Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:39:29 UTC, Murmansk wrote:
What's so good about Rawlplug Uno? I notice they don't have a hole at the far end - is it intended that the screw goes through the end of the plug?

I've always been a bit of a fan of Plasplugs myself


I've always found that any old junk works fine as a wallplug. I've used wood many times. On rare occasions I've had no plugs within getting distance & resorted to bits of discarded plastic or even slivers of ceramic tile once.. I also have a vague & possibly faulty memory of once using 2 or 3 screws to replace a plug.

The only reasons to go higher tech are severe loads or hollow walls.


NT
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Biggles Wrote in message:
"Jim K.." Wrote in message:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?

You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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I do. Sand/cement skimmed plastered wall. Two reasons, one to
avoid risk of plaster cracking, two I am securing item to the
brick, not the plaster. I often discard supplied screws and plugs
and fit longer ones.


Sand & cement ? Sounds like render again
--
Jim K


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On 22/01/2019 13:32, charles wrote:


You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Agreed. Use a screw backwards to tap it in.

Bill
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On 22/01/2019 18:25, Jim K.. wrote:


Render again..
He said plaster...


So ****ing what? It's the same principle.

Bill
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"Jim K.." Wrote in message:
Biggles Wrote in message:
"Jim K.." Wrote in message:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?

You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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I do. Sand/cement skimmed plastered wall. Two reasons, one to
avoid risk of plaster cracking, two I am securing item to the
brick, not the plaster. I often discard supplied screws and plugs
and fit longer ones.


Sand & cement ? Sounds like render again
--
Jim K

The skim is plaster, though I can't see it makes any difference in
terms of sinking the plug below the surface which was the
original question.Sink it to avoid cracking the
surface.
--
Biggles


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On 22/01/2019 16:53, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Jim K.." writes:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?

You recess the plug into the wall so that it is not putting any strain on
the plaster.


Who else does that?


Me...
Just put 6 into someone's outside wall, and was careful to make
sure they were below the render.

And me.
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On 22/01/2019 19:39, Murmansk wrote:
What's so good about Rawlplug Uno? I notice they don't have a hole at the far end - is it intended that the screw goes through the end of the plug?

I've always been a bit of a fan of Plasplugs myself

I don't use anything else but UNO plugs, they are 100% reliable and work
in pretty much anything. The screw enters the end of the plug & pulls in
forwards when used in plasterboard.

--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
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On 22/01/2019 14:19, Jim K.. wrote:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


It's because the people who design stuff have never fixed anything to a
wall in their lives & have no idea how to do so.

Rule number 1.

Unpack item, remove screws/plugs, throw in bin.



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
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On 22/01/2019 17:53, Robin wrote:
On 22/01/2019 17:34, Tim Watts wrote:




I also like the Fischer rimless plugs but since TMH is now such an
occasional visitor I think it only fair to mention his oft-repeated
comment that Rawlplug "UNO" plugs are the mutts




They are!


--
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The Medway Handyman
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TMH Wrote in message:
On 22/01/2019 14:19, Jim K.. wrote:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


It's because the people who design stuff have never fixed anything to a
wall in their lives & have no idea how to do so.

Rule number 1.

Unpack item, remove screws/plugs, throw in bin.


+1

Rule #2
Use plugs & screws of appropriate size, including being long
enough to reach the supporting substrate behind "render",
"plaster", "whatever". If necessary use more than one plug "in
series".

--
Jim K


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On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 14:50:31 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Jim K.. wrote:

TMH Wrote in message:
On 22/01/2019 14:19, Jim K.. wrote:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


It's because the people who design stuff have never fixed anything to a
wall in their lives & have no idea how to do so.

Rule number 1.

Unpack item, remove screws/plugs, throw in bin.


+1

Rule #2
Use plugs & screws of appropriate size, including being long
enough to reach the supporting substrate behind "render",
"plaster", "whatever". If necessary use more than one plug "in
series".


Just one item had screws and plugs of a decent size, so 0.5% at a guess.
For a professional 'fixer' it must be lower than that.
Had some, for internal use, where the screws were marginal for just brick.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
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On Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:16:48 UTC, TMH wrote:
On 22/01/2019 14:19, Jim K.. wrote:
charles Wrote in message:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:


I am replacing some old wall lights with some new Där fittings. I was
somewhat surprised to see that the wallplugs and screws supplied were of
different lengths. The wallplugs were 25mm x 5mm, and the screws 35mm x
3.5mm. The diameters match well, but why would you use a 35mm screw with
a 25mm wallplug?


It's because the people who design stuff have never fixed anything to a
wall in their lives & have no idea how to do so.

Rule number 1.

Unpack item, remove screws/plugs, throw in bin.


Product designers simply don't care about the plug fixings. If bean counters can save 0.2p on plugs & screws they will.

Mostly I don't use the supplied fixings as being too small. But otherwise the quality of them doesn't matter a damn really, it's just a bit of plastic that gets squashed.


NT
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On Wednesday, 23 January 2019 23:23:43 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 23/01/2019 06:44, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:39:29 UTC, Murmansk wrote:


What's so good about Rawlplug Uno? I notice they don't have a hole at the far end - is it intended that the screw goes through the end of the plug?

I've always been a bit of a fan of Plasplugs myself


I've always found that any old junk works fine as a wallplug. I've used wood many times. On rare occasions I've had no plugs within getting distance & resorted to bits of discarded plastic or even slivers of ceramic tile once.


Matchsticks used to be the go to solution. They were useful as tile
spacers too. These days it's easier to find plugs than boxes of matches
though.

SteveW


Fragments of wood are findable almost anywhere. I only used plastic & tile offcuts for outdoor jobs.


NT
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