https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

On 17/01/2019 11:08, newshound wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379


A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

Depressing to see that the Guardian presents it without *any* of the
caveats. Once upon a time I'd have been complaining about poor
journalism from Murdoch.

On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.

The EU permits and ecourages the one and denies the otrher.

EU is anti nuclear pro russian gas pro german lignite anti UK fracking...


Cost at one point Germany had a green coalition all the nuclear
companies got shafted and went 'green' instead.

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.


Can't help thinking, too, that China and Japan saw getting their designs
into Britain as a way into Europe and other first world markets, given
the UK reputation for having a strict but effective regulatory
environment. And something approaching international standardisation has
got to happen if nuclear is to be a big part of decarbonisation.

On 17/01/2019 12:31, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379


A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.


Can't help thinking, too, that China and Japan saw getting their designs
into Britain as a way into Europe and other first world markets, given
the UK reputation for having a strict but effective regulatory
environment. And something approaching international standardisation has
got to happen if nuclear is to be a big part of decarbonisation.

There are already international standards
There is no need for decarbonisation.


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:50:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.

The EU permits and ecourages the one and denies the otrher.

EU is anti nuclear pro russian gas pro german lignite anti UK fracking...

Did they? I thought they went black lumps.

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.

Very true. We should pay these foreign companies anything they demand to
give them control over our electricity production. You just know it makes
sense.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You are too late I already read it a week ago.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

On 17/01/2019 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/01/2019 12:31, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379


A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.


Can't help thinking, too, that China and Japan saw getting their
designs into Britain as a way into Europe and other first world
markets, given the UK reputation for having a strict but effective
regulatory environment. And something approaching international
standardisation has got to happen if nuclear is to be a big part of
decarbonisation.

There are already international standards

Yes but only at high level, not the sort of thing that the UK regulator
requires.

There is no need for decarbonisation.

We are pretty sure about that, but too many people disagree. We are not
going to see sense in our lifetime.

On 17/01/2019 16:36, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/01/2019 12:31, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379


A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.


Can't help thinking, too, that China and Japan saw getting their
designs into Britain as a way into Europe and other first world
markets, given the UK reputation for having a strict but effective
regulatory environment. And something approaching international
standardisation has got to happen if nuclear is to be a big part of
decarbonisation.

There are already international standards

Yes but only at high level, not the sort of thing that the UK regulator
requires.

yes preciseley that.

There is no need for decarbonisation.

We are pretty sure about that, but too many people disagree. We are not
going to see sense in our lifetime.

Neither are we going to see much climate change


--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 17/01/2019 16:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
You are too late I already read it a week ago.
Brian

There's been speculation for a week on the lines of the Guardian report,
the Sky report is based on what Hitachi actually said today.

In fact I think the copy has just been re-written, I am sure the
original only said that they "could" write off the investment, not that
they *would*. It's still saying

"As a result we will be suspending the development of the Wylfa Newydd
project, as well as work related to Oldbury, until a solution can be found,"

"In the meantime we will take steps to reduce our presence but keep the
option to resume development in future."

Hitachi's investment to date is said to be £2.1B, much larger than
Toshiba's £100M in Moorside. Hitachi have really done a *lot* of work on
Wylfa.

On 17/01/2019 16:51, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 16:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
You are too late I already read it a week ago.
Â* Brian

There's been speculation for a week on the lines of the Guardian report,
the Sky report is based on what Hitachi actually said today.

In fact I think the copy has just been re-written, I am sure the
original only said that they "could" write off the investment, not that
they *would*. It's still saying

"As a result we will be suspending the development of the Wylfa Newydd
project, as well as work related to Oldbury, until a solution can be
found,"

"In the meantime we will take steps to reduce our presence but keep the
option to resume development in future."

Hitachi's investment to date is said to be £2.1B, much larger than
Toshiba's £100M in Moorside. Hitachi have really done a *lot* of work on
Wylfa.

On where we are with respect to Nuvlear power and Brexit:

"The government is taking the steps to prepare for the UK leaving the
European Union and is working to ensure that businesses have the
information they need to prepare. As well as regular and ongoing
engagement with research institutes, businesses, and business and trade
representative groups to discuss their priorities and concerns, we have
taken forward significant preparations," BEIS said.

These include passing of new legislation to lay the groundwork for the
UKs future outside the EU with 57 out of 63 required statutory
instruments required by exit day, including new laws for a nuclear
safeguards regime that will maintain the UK industry's ability to trade
in the nuclear sector while ensuring the UK remains on track to meet its
international obligations on day one of exit.

They also include signing Nuclear Cooperation Agreements (NCAs) with
Australia, Canada and the United States. The NCAs allow the UK to
continue civil nuclear cooperation when current Euratom arrangements
cease to apply in the UK

BEIS is working with Ofgem, the government regulator for gas and
electricity markets in Great Britain, the Northern Ireland Utility
Regulator and interconnector operators to put in place arrangements that
aim to ensure that electricity and gas continue to flow across borders
through interconnectors.

Its preparations also include, it said, "protecting our climate ambition
by taking steps to ensure that, if we leave the EU Emissions Trading
Scheme, on day one companies will still have to report their carbon
emissions and there will be a carbon tax of equivalent impact - to make
sure that these important emissions dont increase as a result of a no
deal scenario."

Another measure was publishing a package of secondary legislation in
December to ensure the UK's energy laws function effectively after exit
day, including: European Network Codes, Electricity and Gas Acts, and EU
regulations under the Third Energy Package."

Apart from the bollox bit "protecting our climate ambition by taking
steps to ensure that, if we leave the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, on
day one companies will still have to report their carbon emissions and
there will be a carbon tax of equivalent impact - to make sure that
these important emissions dont increase as a result of a no deal
scenario." its all good stuff and in hand.

Guvmint not ready yet to challenge te Climate alarmists as well as the
remoaners...


--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 17/01/2019 16:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/01/2019 16:36, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 12:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/01/2019 12:31, newshound wrote:
On 17/01/2019 11:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:08:48 +0000, newshound
wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379


A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.


It's sad that the government is prepared to pour massive amounts of
subsidy into renewables (ROC's), and allow them to charge high prices
for their electricity (CFD's), yet is being mealy-mouthed about the
best long-term option this country has for carbon-free generation for
many decades into the future.


Can't help thinking, too, that China and Japan saw getting their
designs into Britain as a way into Europe and other first world
markets, given the UK reputation for having a strict but effective
regulatory environment. And something approaching international
standardisation has got to happen if nuclear is to be a big part of
decarbonisation.

There are already international standards

Yes but only at high level, not the sort of thing that the UK
regulator requires.

yes preciseley that.

But evidently not good ones.

France combines control and safety systems, the UK (for good reason)
requires separate safety systems (otherwise we could just copy their
designs directly). Combining control and safety systems makes it far
harder to substantiate the safety functions, is more prone to error in
doing so and leaves them open to being affected by unexpected side
effects of future control system changes.

SteveW

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
Very true. We should pay these foreign companies anything they demand to
give them control over our electricity production. You just know it makes
sense.

The fact that we no longer have a domestic nuclear industry capable of
building these things by itself, is the fault of UK governments of all
shades.

Quite.

And what alternative would you suggest? Reliance on solar panels
imported from China? Reliance on windmills?

Quite again.

Forward to the past!

And some think the UK can do just fine outside the EU. When it can't even
build a fooking windmill these days.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 17 January 2019 11:08:50 UTC, newshound wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

If it gets resurrected, it will only be with some form of government assistance.
Nuclear power is totally none viable financially.
It always was. The taxpayer is paying to clean up/decommission obsolete nuclear power.

What we see here is nuclear blackmail.

In message ,
harry writes
On Thursday, 17 January 2019 11:08:50 UTC, newshound wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...n-nuclear-reac
tor-in-wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

If it gets resurrected, it will only be with some form of government
assistance.
Nuclear power is totally none viable financially.
It always was. The taxpayer is paying to clean up/decommission
obsolete nuclear power.

What we see here is nuclear blackmail.

I vote for ownership by the people. Funded by taxation and re-paid by
lower energy bills:-)

--
Tim Lamb

On 18/01/2019 09:58, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
harry writes
On Thursday, 17 January 2019 11:08:50 UTC, newshoundÂ* wrote:

https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...n-nuclear-reac
tor-in-wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

If it gets resurrected, it will only be with some form of government
assistance.
Nuclear power is totally none viable financially.
It always was.Â* The taxpayer is paying to clean up/decommission
obsolete nuclear power.

What we see here is nuclear blackmail.

I vote for ownership by the people. Funded by taxation and re-paid by
lower energy bills:-)

+1. Although the Government is reportedly looking at "Regulated Asset
Base", which Dieter Helm reckons is the next best thing.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 17 January 2019 11:08:50 UTC, newshound wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

If it gets resurrected, it will only be with some form of government
assistance.

Corse there is never any of that with solar, eh ?

Nuclear power is totally none viable financially.

Works fine for France, stupid.

It always was. The taxpayer is paying to clean up/decommission obsolete
nuclear power.

Another bare faced pig ignorant lie.

What we see here is nuclear blackmail.

What we actually see here is your pig ignorance and lies.

On 18/01/2019 09:11, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 17 January 2019 11:08:50 UTC, newshound wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/hitachi-t...wales-11609379

A slightly fuller picture before Harry posts to say that it is.

If it gets resurrected, it will only be with some form of government assistance.
Nuclear power is totally none viable financially.
It always was. The taxpayer is paying to clean up/decommission obsolete nuclear power.

What we see here is nuclear blackmail.


Harry, you know damn well no solar or windmill system is ever built
without a subsidy.

Fossil fuel systems also of course do not pay for their cleanup.

Andy