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Old January 12th 19, 08:53 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

https://brexitcentral.com/dont-foole...ssels-forever/

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Old January 12th 19, 01:55 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

I am not reading Harry's crappy right wing linkss, but I would like to
say I am really pleased with the way the bexit fiasco is unfolding. I
find myself becoming optimistic and hopeful for the future again. I see
only two or three possible outcomes now, least liked first:

The May deal by some unpredictable fluke gets through.
An election and the Labour party delay before introducing an even
softer brexit.
The whole thing is cancelled and indefinitely postponed by Peoples
Vote.

So ukip and Leave are in my estimation all but defeated now. Not by the
opposition or any Remain movement but hoist by their own petards of
internal conflict, lies, fantasies and false promises. They have
effectively self destructed.

It would be really good to put brexit and the nasty nationalists away
for the long term with a proper defeat at the ballot box, and it would
be really good if they were permanently excluded from what's going to be
left of the Conservative Party so they can't get back into parliament
but we will just have to see how events unfold. Anyway-

Looking forward to a happy and prosperous 2019! For all of us!

TW
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Old January 12th 19, 02:47 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.



"TimW" wrote in message
...
I am not reading Harry's crappy right wing linkss, but I would like to say
I am really pleased with the way the bexit fiasco is unfolding. I find
myself becoming optimistic and hopeful for the future again. I see only
two or three possible outcomes now, least liked first:

The May deal by some unpredictable fluke gets through.
An election and the Labour party delay before introducing an even
softer brexit.


what if Labour do not win that election (note that doesn't mean that the
Tories will win instead)

how is the problem solved (This distinct possibly of this happing is exactly
why there WONT be an early election)

The whole thing is cancelled and indefinitely postponed by Peoples
Vote.


the Peoples Vote results in "LEAVE"

You are fooling yourself if you think that isn't a 50-50 possibility.

And then, should Brexit be cancelled, there's the distinct possibility of a
voter revolt at the election (be that an early one or at the next scheduled
point) where a re-vamped "Leave" party (probably not the rump of UKIP) sweep
up enough seats to start the process gain. 30% will win you most electoral
constituencies and if all of the leavers vote the same way in those
constituencies (against the incumbent who thwarted their wish), it's
mathematically possible.

So ukip and Leave are in my estimation all but defeated now.


UKIP I'll give you

Leave not.

Not by the opposition or any Remain movement but hoist by their own
petards of internal conflict,


absolutely not

it was spoiling by Remoaners that has cost us a decent leave deal, not
bickering amongst Leavers, most of whom want the same thing.

lies, fantasies and false promises. They have effectively self destructed.


Nonsense

There is a decent Leave deal to be had if we had pursued that line
unencumbered by trying to satisfy the wish of the elites who wanted BrINO
all along.

tim



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Old January 12th 19, 04:34 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 319
Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

tim... tims_

it was spoiling by Remoaners that has cost us a decent leave deal, not
bickering amongst Leavers, most of whom want the same thing.

lies, fantasies and false promises. They have effectively self destructed.


Nonsense

There is a decent Leave deal to be had if we had pursued that line
unencumbered by trying to satisfy the wish of the elites who wanted BrINO
all along.



Whatever spin you put on it to make yourself feel better it doesn’t hide
the fact that those political leaders
who advocated Brexit that many who wished to leave the EU put their trust
in ,are unlikely to deliver the result people like you wanted. That is
either poor judgement or ignorance or **** poor planning by people like you

for depending on people who were not up to the job or were on personal
crusades.
You should have waited till the case to leave was stronger which if the EU
is going to implode according to some who advocate leaving will happen in
the not too distant future would have brought a less contentious referendum
result if the movement for leave had waited till then.
Instead like sheep you have followed the path to getting a technical leave
but in practice unless something really changes drastically a situation
where the EU still is able to influence the UK heavily which isn’t what you
wanted and causing a lot of economic damage on the way which hasn’t ended
yet.
You can blame those who wished to remain all you want but it is people like
you who were gullible enough to follow those who said leaving would be
easy, all those on the remain side have had to do was wait why the leave
side has struggled to get what it though was going to be so
straightforward.



GH



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Old January 12th 19, 04:50 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

On 12/01/2019 15:34, Marland wrote:
tim... tims_

it was spoiling by Remoaners that has cost us a decent leave deal, not
bickering amongst Leavers, most of whom want the same thing.

lies, fantasies and false promises. They have effectively self destructed.


Nonsense

There is a decent Leave deal to be had if we had pursued that line
unencumbered by trying to satisfy the wish of the elites who wanted BrINO
all along.



Whatever spin you put on it to make yourself feel better it doesn’t hide
the fact that those political leaders
who advocated Brexit that many who wished to leave the EU put their trust
in ,are unlikely to deliver the result people like you wanted.


Most people who voted for Brexit knew that resorting to WTO tariffs was
a possibility.

If there is a another referendum and the result reverse3d, then I can
see both Labour and Tories votes decimated by an invigorated UKIP led by
Farage. In short there will be greater political Mayhem than Teresa
could ever imagine.


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Old January 12th 19, 06:04 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 15:50:11 +0000, Fredxx wrote:

On 12/01/2019 15:34, Marland wrote:
tim... tims_

it was spoiling by Remoaners that has cost us a decent leave deal, not
bickering amongst Leavers, most of whom want the same thing.

lies, fantasies and false promises. They have effectively self destructed.

Nonsense

There is a decent Leave deal to be had if we had pursued that line
unencumbered by trying to satisfy the wish of the elites who wanted BrINO
all along.



Whatever spin you put on it to make yourself feel better it doesnt hide
the fact that those political leaders
who advocated Brexit that many who wished to leave the EU put their trust
in ,are unlikely to deliver the result people like you wanted.


Most people who voted for Brexit knew that resorting to WTO tariffs was
a possibility.


I'm pretty sure that wasn't even on their radar!

They will have voted in the main to:

Reduce immigration. (= 'get rid of all these immigrants who are
getting free flats and bunging up our doctors and hospitals ...'

'Give 350M/week to the NHS instead.' (which was never a valid sum or
likely to happen).

'Stop Brussels making our laws' (the chances are no law has ever
affected any of the negatively but the chances are they would have
made things better for them).

Many people who voted put as much effort into doing so (in the form of
personal research) as they do deciding if to have a tea or coffee.


If there is a another referendum and the result reverse3d, then I can
see both Labour and Tories votes decimated by an invigorated UKIP led by
Farage. In short there will be greater political Mayhem than Teresa
could ever imagine.


And none of that is as significant as the referendum being annulled
(it shouldn't really even be overturned as the result was 'engineered'
away from a stalemate). I'm not saying we shouldn't still consider the
option, should there be some real / actual justification in the
future.

Cheers, T i m


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Old January 12th 19, 06:06 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

On 12/01/2019 13:47, tim... wrote:


"TimW" wrote in message
...
I am not reading Harry's crappy right wing linkss, but I would like to
say I am really pleased with the way the bexit fiasco is unfolding. I
find myself becoming optimistic and hopeful for the future again. I
see only two or three possible outcomes now, least liked first:

*** The May deal by some unpredictable fluke gets through.
*** An election and the Labour party delay before introducing an even
softer brexit.


what if Labour do not win that election (note that doesn't mean that the
Tories will win instead)

how is the problem solved (This distinct possibly of this happing is
exactly why there WONT be an early election)



I don't have a crystal ball but the prospects for the Tories are pretty
bleak: hopelessly divided by brexit, **** economy, really nothing
acheived while they have ballsed everything up. even if labour don't win
a majority the smaller parties who will enter into coalition with them
are Libdem and SNP and both of them will make the same demand which will
be BIN BREXIT. So there's a good chance there.
TW

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Old January 12th 19, 06:07 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

TimW wrote

I am not reading Harry's crappy right wing linkss,


Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have always been that stupidly closed minded.

but I would like to say I am really pleased with
the way the bexit fiasco is unfolding. I find myself
becoming optimistic and hopeful for the future again.


Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have always been that terminal a ****wit.

I see only two or three possible outcomes now, least liked first:


Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you have always been that terminal a ****wit.

The May deal by some unpredictable fluke gets through.


Taint gunna happen.

An election and the Labour party delay
before introducing an even softer brexit.


Taint gunna happen either. If there is a general election
and Labour does get to the govt, Barnier will tell Corbyn
to go and **** himself and there will still be just the
choice between what the EU has already said that they
will agree to and a no deal brexit and since when the
parliament can't agree to anything, the no deal brexit
will happen completely automatically given that
parliament invoked Article 50 already and wont be able
to agree to revoke it and can't unilaterally defer the exit.

The whole thing is cancelled and
indefinitely postponed by Peoples Vote.


Not a chance because parliament would
have to agree to another referendum.

What will actually happen is a no deal brexit and that will work fine.

So ukip and Leave are in my estimation all but defeated now.
Not by the opposition or any Remain movement but hoist by
their own petards of internal conflict, lies, fantasies and false
promises. They have effectively self destructed.


But will get what they way, a no deal brexit anyway.

It would be really good to put brexit and the nasty nationalists
away for the long term with a proper defeat at the ballot box,


That never happens.

and it would be really good if they were permanently
excluded from what's going to be left of the Conservative
Party so they can't get back into parliament


And neither is that, particularly if ukip and Leave
really have self destructed. While they still exist,
its always possible to not allow anyone to be a
member of one of those and the Torys, but once
they cease to exist, even that isnt possible.

but we will just have to see how events unfold.


With a no deal brexit, you watch.

Anyway-


Looking forward to a happy and prosperous 2019! For all of us!


Not going to happen for the remoaners, you watch.
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Old January 12th 19, 06:10 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

On 12/01/2019 15:50, Fredxx wrote:
[snip]

If there is a another referendum and the result reverse3d, then I can
see both Labour and Tories votes decimated by an invigorated UKIP led by
Farage. In short there will be greater political Mayhem than Teresa
could ever imagine.


My feeling is that Brexit is yesterday's failed project now. Nothing
will reinvigorate ukip. All the arguements for brexit have been knocked
down and discredited. There may be a hardcore of nationalist right wing
nutters left shouting 'leave means leave' but really not enough to cause
anything like mayhem.
TW
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Old January 12th 19, 07:14 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 29,882
Default OT. What the withdrawal agreement really means.

Marland wrote
tim... tims_


it was spoiling by Remoaners that has cost us a decent leave deal,
not bickering amongst Leavers, most of whom want the same thing.


lies, fantasies and false promises. They have effectively self
destructed.


Nonsense


There is a decent Leave deal to be had if we had pursued
that line unencumbered by trying to satisfy the wish of
the elites who wanted BrINO all along.


I don’t believe that. IMO the EU was never going to
agree to any decent leave deal because that would
encourage other net contributors to leave as well.

Whatever spin you put on it to make yourself feel better it
doesn’t hide the fact that those political leaders who advocated
Brexit that many who wished to leave the EU put their trust in ,
are unlikely to deliver the result people like you wanted.


Bet they do, a no deal brexit.

That is either poor judgement or ignorance
or **** poor planning by people like you for
depending on people who were not up to
the job or were on personal crusades.


But they will deliver what most leavers want, a no deal brexit.

You should have waited till the case to leave was stronger


Not possible given that the only reason there was a referendum
at all was because Cameron decided that that would shut the
leavers in his party up. In fact it actually did the exact opposite.

which if the EU is going to implode according to some
who advocate leaving will happen in the not too distant
future would have brought a less contentious referendum
result if the movement for leave had waited till then.


Yes, but would likely have seen an immense cost to the UK due
to the desperate attempt by the EU to avoid that implosion.

Instead like sheep you have followed the path to getting
a technical leave but in practice unless something really
changes drastically a situation where the EU still is able
to influence the UK heavily which isn’t what you wanted
and causing a lot of economic damage on the way which
hasn’t ended yet.


Easy to claim a lot of economic damage. Bet what
actually happens is that a no deal brexit works fine
with no more and a minor glitch at most.

Sure, a few operations like Nissan may well chose to
move to the EU but that’s no big deal economically.

You can blame those who wished to remain all you
want but it is people like you who were gullible
enough to follow those who said leaving would
be easy, all those on the remain side have had to
do was wait why the leave side has struggled to
get what it though was going to be so straightforward.


Regardless, the majority who bothered to vote voted to
leave and you remoaners get to like that or lump it or leave.



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