Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 19:51:05 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/29/18 12:06 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

In the UK we don't have that problem, my kitchen is full of 13A 240V
sockets, just like every other room, it's what I plug my kettle,
dishwasher, washing machine, bread maker, etc, etc into. All of which
would be utterly useless on a 120V circuit.

Here, I use a kettle you put on the stove, and all the others are 120V.

We stopped using stove kettles decades ago. We're a bit more advanced over here. You just pour water in and turn it on, and 3kW heats the water directly, no ****ing about with heat conducting from the stove through to the kettle, and leaving a hot stove afterwards.

I thought the USA had 240V
sockets in rooms where they're likely to be needed, like the kitchen?

Some kitchens have a 240V 40A outlet for a stove. Mine is built-in and
hardwired.

So is mine, but my washing machine uses almost 3kW as it heats the water as it fills. Same with my dishwasher. Same with my tumble drier. They can plug into any socket anywhere in the house.

Some older houses have 240V (15 or 20A) sockets (for window air
conditioners).

And where do you plug in a 2kW hoover? I plug mine in any room I'm
hoovering.

Probably get by with a smaller unit.

Useless if you have decent carpets and/or hairy pets.

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:16:33 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/29/18 12:52 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

Microwaving something in a cheap **** plastic container is insane. I
always cook or eat things in a real pot bowl. Plastic melts!

The first thing I heated in a microwave was frozen macaroni and cheese.
The instructions said to cover it in plastic wrap. It didn't take me
long to figure out that it was a really bad idea, consider trying to
separate melted plastic from melted cheese.

Indeed, that cheap **** plastic melts in a 700W microwave oven. Or in any microwave oven, it can't handle boiling water, which inevitably you get from the food. And I bet it's rather toxic.

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 12/29/18 2:18 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

[snip]

They do. Some microwaves had rotating wave guides hidden above the cooking
chamber in an attempt to even things out. Haven't looked to see if they still do
or just rely on the turntable, which doesn't work all that well. Suspect the
density consistency and evenness of the water content of the item being cooked
is the reason.

My microwave doesn't have a turntable and seems to have no need for one.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Why has a religious turn of mind always a tendency to narrow and harden
the heart?" -- Robert Burns

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:20:18 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 12:16:27 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:21:46 -0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 30/12/2018 03:18, Bill Wright wrote:
On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

I can't say many things I cook have large solid lumps. All ready meals are pretty much fluid, so convection and conduction can take place, and almost everything I cook is a dish of something which is only 2 inches deep.

I don't know what the low settings are for. All the instructions I've
seen - e.g. on ready meals - say "full power". There is the defrost
setting, but microwaves aren't very good at defrosting as they don't
heat frozen water very well.

Mine thaws a frozen (already cooked) pizza extremely well, on full power. It turns a -20C pizza into a +40C pizza in 4 minutes.

Only a moron would cook a pizza in a microwave.

No, anyone who wants it ready more quickly. I buy the frozen pizza in the supermarket, place it in the microwave, then I can eat it in 4 minutes.

Why would you think pizzas shouldn't go in microwaves?! Every foodstuff can be cooked in a microwave.

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 12/30/18 11:11 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

Spin?* Does anyone still have those old mechanical meters?* Mine just
blinks an LED.* If I were you I'd test it to see if it's charging you
correctly, apparently they can go off calibration with age.

I've had a meter with a LCD display for almost a decade. There's no
disk, but there is a LCD bargraph that looks like they're trying to make
you think you're looking at a disk.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Why has a religious turn of mind always a tendency to narrow and harden
the heart?" -- Robert Burns

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:42:13 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 12/30/18 11:11 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

Spin? Does anyone still have those old mechanical meters? Mine just
blinks an LED. If I were you I'd test it to see if it's charging you
correctly, apparently they can go off calibration with age.

I've had a meter with a LCD display for almost a decade. There's no
disk, but there is a LCD bargraph that looks like they're trying to make
you think you're looking at a disk.

Mine just has a blinking LED which seems to blink every so many joules. And an LCD display which says how much I've used - it's what you use to "read the meter", which I do myself to get a discount. I think the only reason I have this modern one is a while back I changed to a dual tarriff, cheaper at evenings and weekends, which I no longer use as it's no longer the cheapest, so the meter just charges the same for both times. That dual tarriff required a more complex meter than just a spinning disk with one readout.

More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 05:48:14 +1100, dkol, better known as cantankerous
nym-shifting trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH another 169 lines of the two prize idiots' endless sick drivel
unread

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rot:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID:

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 04:24:23 -0000, mike wrote:

On 12/29/2018 7:02 PM, FMurtz wrote:
William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:34:22 -0000, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

There are higher rating consumer units, but you have to look for
them. I had a
1.2kw range hood type that worked much better than the 900w types. I
think
commerical units (i.e. convenience store) can be found that are 1.8kw.

That said, what I find annoying is that the power control for every
consumer
microwave I've seen is duty cycle based. That is, so many seconds of
full power
followed by so many seconds of no power.

Some foods and defrosting would work much better if the actual power
level could
be adjusted. Panasonic claims to make an inverter based design, but
I'm not
convinced they actually adjust the outpout power.
They adjust the AVERAGE power at a rate much faster than the
thermal time constant of the food.

I'm unsure how magnetrons work, but what's the big deal with running
them at half power? Do they have to be on full power, and also can't
be cycled more quickly?
I don't think you can change the operating voltage far enough to
get a large enough range of power. And how would you do that anyway?

I was thinking just tappings on a transformer.

You'd have to use an inverter to do it efficiently. Might as well
just switch the power on and off directly. Everything works at
optimum efficiency or is off.

Well if it doesn't like running at low power, then yes I guess cycling is better. Like an incandescent lightbulb sux at producing light at half voltage. You just get heat.

Anyway, I've never used a microwave on anything other than full power
- even when defrosting, which for some reason people think you have to
select "defrost". Why? It just takes longer. I can defrost food
much faster on full power.

Break an egg into a bowl. Stick it in the microwave on high.
Be ready with the cleaning supplies to get the egg off the inside
of your oven. The yoke usually explodes first.
If you break the yoke, the whites will explode anyway.
You really have to whip it up to prevent explosion.

Eggs are unusual. Most foods aren't explosive.

You can get a similar effect with soup.

I don't, I regularly heat soup on full power.

Because that is not defrosting it is cooking, Not remotely like
defrosting, methinks thou art a dill.

Another weird thing my current (Hyundai 800W) microwave does is to
switch off the heating completely for the last 15 seconds but continue
to run the fan, light, and turntable (if you've selected at least 4
minutes time). So er like why not just remove the food 15 seconds
earlier? Which I often do. Funnily enough nothing ever exploded.

Might have been a design tradeoff to let the magnetron run too hot
and need 15 seconds for it to cool down sufficiently.

No need to make the user wait though! I'd have it switch off the turntable, lamp, and magnetron, then just run the cooling fan, like some cars do. It also means it's subtracting 15 seconds from your cooking time, which means you get the wrong cooking time.

I don't remember any explosion issues with my old 600W Amana.
My Panasonic Inverter on High will explode an egg faster than
you can say, "oh crap, I forgot to cover the dish."

Try xmas tree lights :-)

More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 05:52:28 +1100, dkol, better known as cantankerous
nym-shifting trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

FLUSH troll****

So, what's with your newest nym, you 85-year-old senile cretin? Gotten into
too many people's killfiles again? LMAO

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

Slow microwave ovens
 

"William Gothberg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:20:18 -0000, trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 12:16:27 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:21:46 -0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 30/12/2018 03:18, Bill Wright wrote:
On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2
minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both
over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so
food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

I can't say many things I cook have large solid lumps. All ready meals
are pretty much fluid, so convection and conduction can take place, and
almost everything I cook is a dish of something which is only 2 inches
deep.

I don't know what the low settings are for. All the instructions I've
seen - e.g. on ready meals - say "full power". There is the defrost
setting, but microwaves aren't very good at defrosting as they don't
heat frozen water very well.

Mine thaws a frozen (already cooked) pizza extremely well, on full
power. It turns a -20C pizza into a +40C pizza in 4 minutes.

Only a moron would cook a pizza in a microwave.

No, anyone who wants it ready more quickly. I buy the frozen pizza in the
supermarket, place it in the microwave, then I can eat it in 4 minutes.

Why would you think pizzas shouldn't go in microwaves?! Every foodstuff
can be cooked in a microwave.

Plenty of food is much better cooked in other than a microwave.
That includes pizzas, pies, leg of lamb, steaks, chops etc.

Microwaves do veg well and other stuff like rice and soup
and even just tea and coffee hot water but with plenty of
other stuff you get a better result with something different.

Troll-feeding Senile YANKIETARD Alert!
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 13:51:05 -0600, Mark Lloyd, another braindead,
troll-feeding, senile Yankie idiot, blathered again:


Here, I use a kettle you put on the stove, and all the others are 120V.

No ****! Do you? How very interesting, senile Yank! tsk

Troll-feeding Senile YANKIETARD Alert!
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 14:16:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd, another braindead,
troll-feeding, senile Yankie idiot, blathered again:



The first thing I heated in a microwave was frozen macaroni and cheese.
The instructions said to cover it in plastic wrap. It didn't take me
long to figure out that it was a really bad idea, consider trying to
separate melted plastic from melted cheese.

Hard to tell which of you two driveling idiots is the bigger idiot! BG

More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 05:54:22 +1100, dkol, better known as cantankerous
nym-shifting trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Not it is not.

LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

Troll-feeding Senile YANKIETARD Alert!
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 13:37:27 -0600, Mark Lloyd, another braindead,
troll-feeding, senile Yankie idiot, blathered again:


Microwave heating instructions usually say what power they're for. Most
I've seen recently say 1 or 1.1KW. Maybe that's the normal for the new
units.

BTW, I have a 700W microwave about 30 years old.

LOL Driveling senile Yankietard!

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 05:54:22 +1100, dkol wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote

Must be possible.

No it is not.

Well, you *could* change the frequency to have the microwaves penetrate
further, but then they would not cook food because the frequency is
specifically tuned so that the photon energy of the microwaves corresponds
to the primary molecular quantuum spin state of a water molecule.

Dkol is astute albeit curt on this matter.

--
http://mduffy.x10host.com/index.htm

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 12/30/2018 10:17 AM, Bill Wright wrote:
On 30/12/2018 09:26, Andy Bennet wrote:

That's why microwave ovens operate at 2.4GHz - the resonant
frequency/maximum absorption of energy in water molecules.

No it isn't.

Bill

Could be FCC rules instead.

https://bethesignal.com/wp/2017/02/w...e-at-2-45-ghz/

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 21:57:06 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 13:37:27 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 12/29/18 11:26 AM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens is
pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

Microwave heating instructions usually say what power they're for. Most
I've seen recently say 1 or 1.1KW. Maybe that's the normal for the new
units.

BTW, I have a 700W microwave about 30 years old.

Mine is more like 45

Mine tend to blow up before that age. My last one decided to run continuously, I guess something shorted out when some condensed water got through the centre whatsit on the turntable. I was in a foul mood at the time and couldn't be bothered repairing it, since they're so common you can get them for free on freecycle.

More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rot Speed!
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 08:10:53 +1100, dkol, better known as cantankerous
nym-shifting trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Plenty of food is much better cooked in other than a microwave.
That includes pizzas, pies, leg of lamb, steaks, chops etc.

Microwaves do veg well and other stuff like rice and soup
and even just tea and coffee hot water but with plenty of
other stuff you get a better result with something different.

....and now thank the retarded troll for giving you another opportunity to
spout yet more of your ****!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

Troll-feeding Senile YANKIETARD Alert!
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 14:42:13 -0600, Mark Lloyd, another braindead,
troll-feeding, senile Yankie idiot, blathered again:


FLUSH the two idiots' idiotic drivel

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 30/12/2018 17:11, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:10:46 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 29/12/2018 18:21, % wrote:

and then re wire the house and when you use it ,
you can watch the hydro disk spin like a top

LOL. I have a 14.4kW electric boiler. That's what I call spin.

Spin?* Does anyone still have those old mechanical meters?

Me! Me! Me!

Mine just
blinks an LED.

I was in a place with one of those. Spit!

With the spinning disc I can calculate the instantaneous power
consumption, which all those fancy "smart meters" can do.

--
Max Demian

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:41:32 -0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 30/12/2018 17:11, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:10:46 -0000, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 29/12/2018 18:21, % wrote:

and then re wire the house and when you use it ,
you can watch the hydro disk spin like a top

LOL. I have a 14.4kW electric boiler. That's what I call spin.

Spin? Does anyone still have those old mechanical meters?

Me! Me! Me!

Why are you so excited about it?

Mine just
blinks an LED.

I was in a place with one of those. Spit!

Why spit? They're probably more accurate.

With the spinning disc I can calculate the instantaneous power
consumption, which all those fancy "smart meters" can do.

Mine is not a smart meter, I would have to be held at gunpoint to have that installed in my house. My energy supplier (EDF) has attempted to contact me 30 times by phone and 5 times by letter to get one. They are blocked on my phone (although it does register every attempt to phone me, which is a source of amusement - not once did they bother leaving an answerphone message). Letters go in the bin where they belong.

Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:41:32 +0000, Max Demian, an especially stupid,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered

Spin?* Does anyone still have those old mechanical meters?

Me! Me! Me!

BG Poor senile idiot!

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.* Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.* More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.* Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy



*That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?* I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know* or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a ****ing invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic ******.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work.* Why on
earth would you see that as bragging?* You have some weird mental problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence "I know how inverters work." end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy



That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a ****ing invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic ******.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work. Why on
earth would you see that as bragging? You have some weird mental problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence "I know how inverters work." end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work. Why you see that as bragging, nobody knows.

Troll-feeding Senile YANKIETARDS Alert!
 

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 19:11:44 -0500, Meanie, the real dumb troll-feeding
senile Yank, blathered again:



I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

Of course he is. That troll gets you, time and again, senile fool!

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 12/30/2018 7:17 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder

wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.* Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.* More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.* Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy




*That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?* I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know* or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a ****ing invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic ******.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work.* Why on
earth would you see that as bragging?* You have some weird mental
problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence "I know how inverters work." end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work.* Why you see
that as bragging, nobody knows.


LMFAO! Pathetic ******.

Slow microwave ovens
 

"William Gothberg"
Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:16:33
GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few
kW? They were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered
electric outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For example, last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a
quart plastic container. The Panasonic has a defrost mode that
uses about 30% power and cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage. It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at
its fixed wattage until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-with-your-mic
rowaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy
That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device
to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

It's actually a switching power supply, instead of the old heavy step
up transformer, diode and capacitor system. And contrary to the other
posters reply, there 'inverter' style microwave is NOT throttling the
power going to the magnetron. It's still getting high voltage DC
current, just like the original ones. It's better able to control the
timing period for magnetron on/off cycles as well as independent
control over the magnetrons required filament. the old step up
transformer style fired the element with another tap on the
secondary. so, if the transformer had power, both the filament and
magnetron do too. No way to seperate them in that design.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've
never had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I
want the meal as soon as possible!

You aren't lowering or raising the power to your magnetron when you
adjust those cooking settings. All you're actually doing is telling
the microwaves computer how long to leave the magnetron on for. Ie:
how fast does it cycle the magnetrons power state. For the old heavy
ones, non 'inverter', it's opening/closing a single pole relay that
controls the input on the primary coil to the step up transformer.
Your 'cooking' settings determine how long that relay stays open and
closes for. That's all. Anytime it's closed, your magnetron (in your
case) is kicking 800watts of microwave energy. You can't adjust that.
What you can adjust is how long it's firing the energy into the
cooking chamber.


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Slow microwave ovens
 

Arthur Conan Doyle
news:n1ff2el7b5fc6megbeihv069t05gouso10@None Sat, 29 Dec 2018
18:27:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron.
Inverter driven magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.


Wrong.

Both styles actually take AC incoming mains, raise it to 5k or so,
and convert it with a single diode mind you, to DC to feed the
magnetron. The filament is fed by low voltage AC. Neither of them can
or do vary the voltage going to the magnetron. That's just not how it
works. You can't lower the voltage to reduce microwave energy. And
you can't raise it to get more microwave energy, either. The
magnetron requires voltage within a certain range to function. More
than that will burn the magnetron up. Less will prevent it from
making viable microwaves.


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Slow microwave ovens
 

"dkol" Sun,
30 Dec 2018 18:52:28 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill
Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a
few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered
electric outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would
be practical for use. Getting warming times down to a
couple of seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is
not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would
be. For example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart
plastic container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power
and cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage. It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off
at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...elf-with-your-
microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power.
Inverter microwaves are much better for defrosting AND
cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working
by the time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a
device to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off
a 12V car battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know
absolutely nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you
know or ask and educate yourself about the other

I know what a ****ing invertor is, I built my own solar panel
system.

Not the same as an inverter microwave oven.

That's because the inverter microwave oven is really a switching
power supply based oven, instead of a bulky, heavy, inefficient step
up transformer. [g] I suppose you can call it an inverter because
it's taking AC mains, raising it significantly and converting it to
DC which is the same thing as the original step up style was doing,
but it's not having to use a bulky transformer to do it.

It's also good advertising.. right? 'Ours uses 'inverter'
technology!' Well, technically, so did the originals, with a single
diode. [g] And, it's not outright lying, it's really got an inverter
for it's power supply...so its cheaper to make, and weighs less too.

But, it's not varying the power feeding the magnetron or anything
like that. It's able to control magnetron power and filament power
seperately, which can assist with shorter cooking times. Vs the old
step up style that couldn't control them seperately, short of using
an additional transformer (for the filament only) and another relay
for that little transformer. In the old school style, the step up
transformer has two taps. One high voltage, one low voltage. High
voltage for the magnetron, low voltage for the filament. But both
supplying whenever the mains was available to the transformer. So you
couldn't keep the filament on to avoid warm up times while you had
the magnetron itself powered down for a cycle. You can with the
switching or inverter style. Which turns into more efficient cooking
and less power consumed over all to do it.





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Slow microwave ovens
 

"Mr Pounder Esquire"
Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:16:37 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

My wife of 28 years died in April.

Sorry for your loss.


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Slow microwave ovens
 

"..shadow, me & my"
Sun, 30 Dec 2018 16:13:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

So Mr Mouth when will you have this product on the market and how
much will it cost??

You only get what, 20-25 posts every 24 hours through that service,
right? Why waste them here? :)



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Slow microwave ovens
 

"William Gothberg"
Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:06:40
GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few
kW? They were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for
example ore extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water
contents and breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens
is pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.

Hehehe.. Yea, it is. You'd think there wouldn't be a noticeable
difference in 1000 vs 1100 too, but, there is.. You have to adjust
cooking times for stuff accordingly. I have a totally destroyed
burrito and super heating science lesson as a result of 100 watt
difference; a measily 100 watt difference.


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Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:18:43 -0000 (UTC), Diesel, another braindead,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device
to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

It's actually a switching power supply, instead of the old heavy step
up transformer, diode and capacitor system.

Isn't it just great for you mentally challenged troll-feeding senile idiots
that there is always this one ****ing stupid troll around who keeps baiting
you with his absolutely idiotic statements and questions? Just HOW lonely
are you lot? tsk

Troll-feeding Senile IDIOT Alert!
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:18:48 -0000 (UTC), Diesel, another braindead,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.

Hehehe.. Yea, it is.

Hehehe... Yes, he is a ****ing stupid troll! ...and yes, you ARE a ****ing
stupid troll-feeding idiot! G

Slow microwave ovens
 

Diesel wrote:
"Mr Pounder Esquire"
Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:16:37 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

My wife of 28 years died in April.

Sorry for your loss.

Thank you for your kind words.
It was of course cancer. She had the works. Hysterectomy, chemo and
radiotherapy. I think we both knew the inevitable outcome.
The overworked staff at the hospital and the hospice were magnificent.

Quick rant.
I begrudge giving money to nations that would not **** on us if we were on
fire. The NHS is in crisis, spend our money here.
https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-spending-foreign-aid/

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:18:48 -0000, Diesel wrote:

"William Gothberg"
Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:06:40
GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few
kW? They were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for
example ore extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water
contents and breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens
is pitiful. What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.

Hehehe.. Yea, it is. You'd think there wouldn't be a noticeable
difference in 1000 vs 1100 too, but, there is.. You have to adjust
cooking times for stuff accordingly. I have a totally destroyed
burrito and super heating science lesson as a result of 100 watt
difference; a measily 100 watt difference.

Yes you have to adjust the times. But it's not what I'd call noticeable as in "woah that food was ready quicker". For everything, I need a factor of 2 to be happy. A CPU that's twice as fast. A hard disk that's twice as big, a car with an engine with double the horsepower.

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 2018-12-31 6:55 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:18:48 -0000, Diesel wrote:

"William Gothberg"
Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:06:40
GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:00:47 -0000, Bill Gill
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 11:29 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
On 2018-12-29 10:26 a.m., William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:46:52 -0000, Andy Bennet
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 13:43, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few
kW?* They were invented decades ago.

High power microwaves (1MW) are used in industry in for
example ore extraction/rock pulverizing.
1MW into a cup of water is not pretty, explodes the water
contents and breaks the cup.

I don't need a MW, but the usual 600W to 900W in domestic ovens
is pitiful.* What's wrong with 2kW?

too expensive

1200 watt consumer microwaves are widely available. Check your
Walmart or whatever you have.

1200W isn't much more than the 900W most are.

Hehehe.. Yea, it is. You'd think there wouldn't be a noticeable
difference in 1000 vs 1100 too, but, there is.. You have to adjust
cooking times for stuff accordingly. I have a totally destroyed
burrito and super heating science lesson as a result of 100 watt
difference; a measily 100 watt difference.

Yes you have to adjust the times.* But it's not what I'd call noticeable
as in "woah that food was ready quicker".* For everything, I need a
factor of 2 to be happy.* A CPU that's twice as fast.* A hard disk
that's twice as big, a car with an engine with double the horsepower.

and a bigger brain to out think a 4th grader

Slow microwave ovens
 

On 31/12/2018 07:18, Diesel wrote:
Arthur Conan Doyle
news:n1ff2el7b5fc6megbeihv069t05gouso10@None Sat, 29 Dec 2018
18:27:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron.
Inverter driven magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

Wrong.

Both styles actually take AC incoming mains, raise it to 5k or so,
and convert it with a single diode mind you, to DC to feed the
magnetron. The filament is fed by low voltage AC. Neither of them can
or do vary the voltage going to the magnetron. That's just not how it
works. You can't lower the voltage to reduce microwave energy. And
you can't raise it to get more microwave energy, either. The
magnetron requires voltage within a certain range to function. More
than that will burn the magnetron up. Less will prevent it from
making viable microwaves.

So what is the difference between inverter and non inverter types? Is
'inverter' an appropriate term? How do either control the power?

--
Max Demian

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 01:43:35 -0000, Bob F wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:20 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 12:16:27 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:21:46 -0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 30/12/2018 03:18, Bill Wright wrote:
On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

I can't say many things I cook have large solid lumps. All ready meals are pretty much fluid, so convection and conduction can take place, and almost everything I cook is a dish of something which is only 2 inches deep.

I don't know what the low settings are for. All the instructions I've
seen - e.g. on ready meals - say "full power". There is the defrost
setting, but microwaves aren't very good at defrosting as they don't
heat frozen water very well.

Mine thaws a frozen (already cooked) pizza extremely well, on full power. It turns a -20C pizza into a +40C pizza in 4 minutes.

Only a moron would cook a pizza in a microwave.


Or, a really smart person who like really tough pizza.

The pizzas I use are already cooked. Asda does that part for me. I'm just defrosting them and bringing them to eating temperature.

But if I was cooking one, there's no reason you couldn't do it in a microwave. If anything I'd say they'd end up softer not harder, as an oven tends to cook from the outside and make a hard crust.

Slow microwave ovens
 

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 03:48:02 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 7:17 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder

wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/famil...-cooking-a-joy




That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a ****ing invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic ******.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work. Why on
earth would you see that as bragging? You have some weird mental
problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence "I know how inverters work." end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work. Why you see
that as bragging, nobody knows.


LMFAO! Pathetic ******.

You're not very good at comprehending English are you? I have built a solar power system using invertors by myself. Therefore I know what an invertor is and how it works. That is a statement of fact, not bragging.