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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

Hi folks.

Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe
sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A
measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and
old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones
it seems.

The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it
leaks, so it needs replacing.

My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)

Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?

Options seem to be to use a new S trap pan and cement it in after
removing the old cement. Though presumably as the old pan outlet
is larger, if I could just remove the old pan outlet remains from
the cement it could fit the new one in and then seal around
it?

Or use a horizontal outlet pan and a suitable pan connector.
Either into the cement ring or down into the pipe, which would
seem a better idea.

Any comments?



Use a horizontal outlet
--
Chris French
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

On Tuesday, 6 November 2018 09:34:00 UTC, Chris French wrote:
Hi folks.

Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe
sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A
measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and
old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones
it seems.

The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it
leaks, so it needs replacing.

My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)

Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?

Options seem to be to use a new S trap pan and cement it in after
removing the old cement. Though presumably as the old pan outlet
is larger, if I could just remove the old pan outlet remains from
the cement it could fit the new one in and then seal around
it?

Or use a horizontal outlet pan and a suitable pan connector.
Either into the cement ring or down into the pipe, which would
seem a better idea.

Any comments?



Use a horizontal outlet
--
Chris French


You'll probably find that the cement in the socket is not solid.
The practice was to put ropelike substance called "Gaskin" in the annular slot first & then cement on top. This centralised the pipe and stopped cement falling into the drain.
Best removed with angle grinder with diamond disk.
You may have to smash the WC to bits.
On the other hand, you may find it "wiggles", the cement has not adhered to it.
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

On 06/11/18 09:32, Chris French wrote:

Hi folks.

Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe
sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A
measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and
old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones
it seems.

The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it
leaks, so it needs replacing.

My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)


Many years ago I had a problem when I had an earthenware drain which had
been covered up with paving by the previous houseowner. I needed to use
it for inspection, but the hopper and drainpipe top had been smashed
off. In the end, after considering several solutions, I bought a plastic
hopper (with inspection cover) and "cemented" it into place with Isopon,
which bonded well to the earthenware drain. It saved a lot of work, even
though Isopon isn't cheap when used in quantity.

It's just a suggestion in case the clay pipe gets broken.

--

Jeff
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

Chris Hogg Wrote in message:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:32:34 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Chris wrote:Hi folks.Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones it seems.The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it leaks, so it needs replacing.My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?Drain the trap to below the level of the leak. Dry the outside of theS-trap in the area of the crack. Apply generous layer ofepoxy/sticks-like-****/whatever over crack and allow to harden. Refilltrap. Job done.Not technically the 'best' solution, but certainly the easiest andcheapest.-- Chris



The crack goes all the way round the pipe, (sort of round the top
of upper curve of the S) there is another crack running from
that horizontally about half way round the pipe.

I have smeared some MS polymer sealant/adhesive over it, which has
I think stopped the leak) but it's only going to get worse, and I
suspect next will be a total failure (probably over Xmas :-))It's
also the toilet which gets the most use being downstairs.

So I'd rather do a planned replacement, than do it more of a
hurry. We have 2 other toilets, so I can take my time if
necessary.

--
Chris French
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

On 06/11/2018 13:48, Chris French wrote:
Chris Hogg Wrote in message:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:32:34 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Chris wrote:Hi folks.Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones it seems.The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it leaks, so it needs replacing.My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?Drain the trap to below the level of the leak. Dry the outside of theS-trap in the area of the crack. Apply generous layer ofepoxy/sticks-like-****/whatever over crack and allow to harden. Refilltrap. Job done.Not technically the 'best' solution, but certainly the easiest andcheapest.-- Chris



The crack goes all the way round the pipe, (sort of round the top
of upper curve of the S) there is another crack running from
that horizontally about half way round the pipe.

I have smeared some MS polymer sealant/adhesive over it, which has
I think stopped the leak) but it's only going to get worse, and I
suspect next will be a total failure (probably over Xmas :-))It's
also the toilet which gets the most use being downstairs.

So I'd rather do a planned replacement, than do it more of a
hurry. We have 2 other toilets, so I can take my time if
necessary.


Next problem.

Hardly any S-trap bogs are now made these days.




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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

On 06/11/2018 09:32, Chris French wrote:

Hi folks.

Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe
sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A
measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and
old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones
it seems.

The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it
leaks, so it needs replacing.

My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)

Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?


You will probably find you can wiggle the connector out of the floor
socket. If not you can cut it off with an angle grinder and then work on
the pipe stub in segments if needs be.

Options seem to be to use a new S trap pan and cement it in after
removing the old cement. Though presumably as the old pan outlet
is larger, if I could just remove the old pan outlet remains from
the cement it could fit the new one in and then seal around
it?


You will find very little choice of S type trap pans these days. So a P
type and appropriate WC connector will probably be easier.

(People like McAlpine do WC connectors in a massive range of types -
they can usually join just about any bog to any pipe!)

Or use a horizontal outlet pan and a suitable pan connector.
Either into the cement ring or down into the pipe, which would
seem a better idea.


You will probably find the new connector has a set of large rubber fins
on the end. I would lube them up with some silicone grease, and push
them down into the pipe itself, without worrying about trying to get a
seal on the socket. (You can fill the socket for aesthetic purposes
after if you want - binding some rope or cord round the pipe that can be
slid into the socket will prevent any caulking / mastic from going down
the pipe).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

In message , Chris French
writes
Chris Hogg Wrote in message:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:32:34 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Chris
wrote:Hi folks.Ok, downstairs
toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe sticking out of the
floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A measurement of the end of
the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and old size pan with a slightly
larger size outlet than modern ones it seems.The pan has cracked on
the exit part of the trap such that it leaks, so it needs
replacing.My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)Any
experience /suggestions on the best approach?Drain the trap to below
the level of the leak. Dry the outside of theS-trap in the area of the
crack. Apply generous layer ofepoxy/sticks-like-****/whatever over
crack and allow to harden. Refilltrap. Job done.Not technically the
'best' solution, but certainly the easiest andcheapest.-- Chris



The crack goes all the way round the pipe, (sort of round the top
of upper curve of the S) there is another crack running from
that horizontally about half way round the pipe.

I have smeared some MS polymer sealant/adhesive over it, which has
I think stopped the leak) but it's only going to get worse, and I
suspect next will be a total failure (probably over Xmas :-))It's
also the toilet which gets the most use being downstairs.

So I'd rather do a planned replacement, than do it more of a
hurry. We have 2 other toilets, so I can take my time if
necessary.

You can do a lot with self-amalgamating tape. The fix can be essentially
permanent - but if it eventually starts to fail, it's easily replaced.
--
Ian
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 06/11/2018 13:48, Chris French wrote: Chris Hogg Wrote in message: On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:32:34 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Chris wrote:Hi folks.Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones it seems.The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it leaks, so it needs replacing.My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?Drain the trap to below the level of the leak. Dry the outside of theS-trap in the area of the crack. Apply generous layer ofepoxy/sticks-like-****/whatever over crack and allow to harden. Refilltrap. Job done.Not technically the 'best' solution, but certainly the easiest andcheapest.-- Chris The crack goes all the way round the pipe, (sort of round the top of upper curve of the S) there is another crack running from that horizontally about half way round the pipe. I have smeared some MS polymer sealant/adhesive over it, which has I think stopped the leak) but it's only going to get worse, and I suspect next will be a total failure (probably over Xmas :-))It's also the toilet which gets the most use being downstairs. So I'd rather do a planned replacement, than do it more of a hurry. We have 2 other toilets, so I can take my time if necessary. Next problem.Hardly any S-trap bogs are now made these days.


True, though there are some available.

However I can just use a P trap pan with pan connector, which will
probably be easier anyway.
--
Chris French
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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

Ian Jackson Wrote in message:
In message , Chris French writesChris Hogg Wrote in message: On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 09:32:34 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Chris wrote:Hi folks.Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones it seems.The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it leaks, so it needs replacing.My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-)Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?Drain the trap to below the level of the leak. Dry the outside of theS-trap in the area of the crack. Apply generous layer ofepoxy/sticks-like-****/whatever over crack and allow to harden. Refilltrap. Job done.Not technically the 'best' solution, but certainly the easiest andcheapest.-- ChrisThe crack goes all the way round the pipe, (sort of round the top of upper curve of the S) there is another crack running from that horizontally about half way round the pipe.I have smeared some MS polymer sealant/adhesive over it, which has I think stopped the leak) but it's only going to get worse, and I suspect next will be a total failure (probably over Xmas :-))It's also the toilet which gets the most use being downstairs.So I'd rather do a planned replacement, than do it more of a hurry. We have 2 other toilets, so I can take my time if necessary.You can do a lot with self-amalgamating tape. The fix can be essentially permanent - but if it eventually starts to fail, it's easily replaced.-- Ian


Given the position of the cracks, I can't really see that I could
use SA tape effectively, the main crack runs circumferentially
ound the pipe section of the pan, where it joins into the main
body, not really scope for wrapping it round and overlapping to
make the seal.

Anyway, like I said I'd rather just replace it and have the job done.
--
Chris French
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John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 06/11/2018 09:32, Chris French wrote: Hi folks. Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones it seems. The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it leaks, so it needs replacing. My main concern is not breaking the clay pipe :-) Any experience /suggestions on the best approach?You will probably find you can wiggle the connector out of the floor socket. If not you can cut it off with an angle grinder and then work on the pipe stub in segments if needs be. Options seem to be to use a new S trap pan and cement it in after removing the old cement. Though presumably as the old pan outlet is larger, if I could just remove the old pan outlet remains from the cement it could fit the new one in and then seal around it?You will find very little choice of S type trap pans these days. So a P type and appropriate WC connector will probably be easier.(People like McAlpine do WC connectors in a massive range of types - they can usually join just about any bog to any pipe!)


Yes, I was browsing Multikwik's catalogue today :-)

This is the way I will go I think.

Or use a horizontal outlet pan and a suitable pan connector. Either into the cement ring or down into the pipe, which would seem a better idea.You will probably find the new connector has a set of large rubber fins on the end. I would lube them up with some silicone grease, and push them down into the pipe itself, without worrying about trying to get a seal on the socket. (You can fill the socket for aesthetic purposes after if you want - binding some rope or cord round the pipe that can be slid into the socket will prevent any caulking / mastic from going down the pipe).


Yep, I'm hoping that either the remains of checked pan pipe will
come out easily or the pan connector will fit down the inside
into the clay pipe.

Thanks.

Need to decide on a new WC pan now


--
Chris French


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Default Replacing a WC pan - clay pipe connection.

On 06/11/2018 11:50, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/11/18 09:32, Chris French wrote:

Hi folks.

Ok, downstairs toilet is a S trap pan cemented into a clay pipe
Â* sticking out of the floor. Low level WC, not close coupled. A
Â* measurement of the end of the pan trap is about 110 mm. So and
Â* old size pan with a slightly larger size outlet than modern ones
Â* it seems.

The pan has cracked on the exit part of the trap such that it
Â* leaks, so it needs replacing.

My main concern is not breaking the clay pipeÂ* :-)


Many years ago I had a problem when I had an earthenware drain which had
been covered up with paving by the previous houseowner. I needed to use
it for inspection, but the hopper and drainpipe top had been smashed
off. In the end, after considering several solutions, I bought a plastic
hopper (with inspection cover) and "cemented" it into place with Isopon,
which bonded well to the earthenware drain. It saved a lot of work, even
though Isopon isn't cheap when used in quantity.

It's just a suggestion in case the clay pipe gets broken.


I use quantites of isopon for all sorts of things.

repairing rotten wood, gluing things to other things...especially other
uneven things....

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...m/DSC_0003.JPG

...that fireplace surround was glued with isopon - well it may have been
P38. The tin is half in frame


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

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