"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 09:35, Brian Reay wrote:
How difficult would it have been for them to put a hexagonal head on
the bolt of the same size as the wheelnuts? That would have been a
proper solution.

Your spare wheel idea gets my vote.

There is an argument for no spare wheel at all since frankly 50% of the
population can't change one - its an AA (or equivalent) callout and they
are quite capable of asking what tyre size you have and fitting one at
the roadside as trucks have long done

Do the roadside trucks carry a supply of spare tyres of all sizes and the
ability to fit the right tyre to your wheel?

No they dont and it just isnt feasible with the
different wheel rim nut arrangements alone.

I never knew that. I thought they would just fit your spare and then leave
you to find a garage to get the puncture repaired -

That might have changed with the common lack of a full sized spare now.

assuming garages are open at that time. I've never had to use the AA or
RAC to change a wheel - apart from the one occasion when I couldn't
release the spare wheel from its under-floor cage, due to the stupid
"screwdriver and screw" arrangement that Peugeot used on the 306, and on
that occasion I was able to change the wheel myself. The RAC man said he'd
give me £5 if I could do it quicker than he could have done *using my
wheelbrace, not power tools*. I won :-)

When I reported the puncture to RAC, I wasn't asked what size tyre so the
RAC man could make sure he had the correct size in his van, and he didn't
offer to replace the tyre once he arrived.

But presumably they would know what was needed when
you described the car you were calling them out to assist.

I was gobsmacked that my wife would wait for AA, RAC or Green Flag instead
of changing it herself and being on her way in a few minutes. I offered to
show her how I do it, but she said no. The only time I wouldn't change a
wheel is if it's the offside when I'm on the hard shoulder of the
motorway, and even then I'd sacrifice the tyre and crawl along the hard
shoulder to the next junction to find somewhere safe to replace it, or
else give it a quick burst from my electric pump to make it safe(r) to
drive on for a short distance.

I managed to have one so flat that even the pump at the service
station wouldnt inflate it and that was the spare. By pure fluke
a mate of mine who I have known since he was a little pre school
kid who used to show up at my place most days for something
interesting to do happened to be there too and took it home
to his place and inflated it on his mains powered compressor.
Bitterly cold and wet in the winter at night with all the tyre
places closed too.

wrote in message
...
On Friday, 19 October 2018 09:32:41 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
news

When have the French ever done things like the rest of the world? SECAM
television, non-self-cancelling indicators (Citroen), single-spoke
steering
wheel, rubber pad for footbrake "pedal" (Citroen again!), "hockey-stick"
dashboard-mounted gear lever (Renault and Citroen).

There is a lot to be said for the world devising a common standard for
things like wheels and tyres, to reduce the variety of sizes that need to
be
stocked.

And don't get me started on the pillock who invented the space-saving
spare
wheel. If I was "king" I'd make it mandatory that every car had to be
designed to accommodate a spare wheel which was fully-interchangable with
the running wheels, with no speed or distance restrictions, to allow you
to
take a flat tyre to the garage when *you* want, rather than being
stranded
overnight because you are about to start a long journey (or are even
half-way through it) and you get a puncture late at night or on a Sunday.
And wheelbraces should be cranked, to make it easy to hold the opposite
end
with your hand as you apply pressure with your foot on a wheelnut that
refuses to budge; the modern L-shaped ones pull off the wheelnut. And on
my
old Peugeot, the long bolt that released the spare wheel from its cage
under
the boot had a crude semi-circular notch nut in it, into which you put
the
flattened end of the wheelbrace as a crude screwdriver. What a stupid
design - if the bolt jams, you can't apply enough force before the
"screwdriver" jumps out of the notch. How difficult would it have been
for
them to put a hexagonal head on the bolt of the same size as the
wheelnuts?
That would have been a proper solution.

The one rule about innovating and being different in the hope that people
will adopt your standard is that your non-standard solution must be
*better*
than what's already there, not worse :-)


Your proposal would in reality make things worse. Progress depends
on trying various changes, many of which don't turn out to be keepers,
but some do. Stop that process & you hinder product improvement.
Imagine if you'd insisted on a set of universal tyre sizes in 1910, people
would have kept driving on 2" wide tyres for years longer than was
appropriate. Or again in 1980, tyres have gotten fatter since then to
reduce loss of grip incidents.

Yes.

Re no spare tyre, that does suit some people, some it doesn't.
I can't see a sound reason to prevent people making their
own choice on whether they carry a spare and what type.

Gets tricky with the design of the car tho, particularly with the
smaller cars. Mine came with a full sized spare, and it goes
well in the hole for it in the hatch boot, leaving a flat floor
there with the full sized spare in the hole it belongs in.
It goes inside the boot, not in something under car.
There is a quite solid flexible mat thing that goes
over that so that you end up with a flat floor. If
a skinny temporary spare was used because the
owner was happy with that, the boot space wouldnt
be very usefully increased because you've have a
big hole in the floor of the boot which nothing
much would fit given it would have to be round.

AA/RAC/etc can alter their premiums based on spare ownership
if they want, but I'm sure they're better off not doing.

Re standardising tyre sizes to less types, the result
would be more rubber & cost used pointlessly.

It would sort of make sense to standardise the wheel
rim mounting detail tho. We have the bizarre situation
where the two main manufacturers of the most popular
6 cylinder cars dont even have the same arrangement
of 5 stud rims, they are incompatible. Let alone the
bigger Jap 4WDs which have their own arrangements.

Fwliw I've never liked self cancelling indicators,
they always cancel at the wrong time.

Mine dont. They do fail to cancel on a couple of
unusual road corners, but that the only downside.

Just been reading the owners manual of the Hyundai
i30 I am considering buying and its got a different
system again, one tap on the stalk has it do 3,5 or 7
flashed and only does that and you specify the number
in the setup menu on in the dash. And the whole thing
is configurable so you can have the normal self cancelling
approach if you prefer that too.

OTOH I did not like the manual reverse light.

Yeah, but that doesnt have the self cancelling problem, it will
always be completely reliable based on the gear selected.

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an
old 28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money
is on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience,
the bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch
fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the
tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post
links to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined
and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on
the bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't
looked at the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667

they look the same size to me ......????

the destroyed one at the bottom of th bin covered in cat litter which I
am not going to remove from the bin reads 37-622 (28x 15/8x 13/8) ....

If you want I will dig it out of the bin tomorrow and photograph the three
of them side by side......all the same size ......

come on tim+ where are you ......

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 00:24:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

FLUSH most of the usual troll ****

station wouldn¢t inflate it and that was the spare. By pure fluke
a mate of mine who I have known since he was a little pre school
kid who used to show up at my place most days for something
interesting to do happened to be there too and took it home

Did he ever visit you in your old people's home, senile Rot? Doesn't look
like you get any visits from anyone. BTW, I noticed you were still posting
after midnight. So will you be getting up between ONE and FOUR o'clock in
the morning again, you useless senile idiot? LOL

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 00:06:00 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Richard" wrote in message
news
And don't get me started on the pillock who invented the space-saving
spare wheel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-20984194

Ah good. We know where to send the hate mail ;-)

It sounds like a good idea, but it depends critically on that naive
assumption that "I asked how many times that person had used their spare
wheel. I was told they had never used it." My experience is different.
Driving on poorer country lanes and places where there may be crap on the
road, I have probably had a puncture every couple of years.

Yeah, I've managed about that.

Nobody was talking to you, senile Ozzie troll! LOL

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp about senile cretin Rot Speed:
"Thick pillock!"
MID:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
- now squat down facing the wheel and hold it in your hands at 4- and 8
o'clock position on the tyre tread, with your forearms braced against the
inside of your thighs; ease the wheel off the central boss

I normally sit on the ground to do that.

Easier to squat down than to sit on the ground - and less likely to get a
wet or dirty bum! Also easier to move around - eg to pivot to one side to
put the tyre on the ground and then to pick up the new tyre and pivot back
round to offer it up to the hub.


I've done that in about 5 mins per wheel. I've swapped over all four
wheels (exchange nearside front and back, and offside front and back)
which needs a total of 6 wheelchanges (allowing for temporarily fitting
and removing the spare) inside half an hour.

I dont bother to rotate the tyres anymore.

Nor me, except that when I bought a new (second hand) car, its front tyres
were a lot more worn than the back ones (though still within the legal
range) so I swapped them round to have more tread on the front driving
wheels.

Since then, I've gone through several sets of tyres and I've never had the
front ones wear down so much compared with the back ones, and they've always
lasted a lot longer than 18,000 miles which is what the car had done when I
bought it. I'm not sure how the front tyres came to be so worn in that
distance.

A hexagonal nut on the side, into which you put the wheelbrace, would be
so much better, as you can disconnect the brace and rotate it back from 3
o'clock to 9 o'clock before putting it back on to turn it from 9 to 3 (or
vice versa for lower the jack), for the initial stage when there isn't
enough ground clearance to turn the brace through the lower half of its
rotation.

Or just a normal ratchet socket handle.

Yes, that would be even better. Do they make sockets for the range of wheel
nuts used on most cars?

On 19/10/2018 18:11, NY wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
- now squat down facing the wheel and hold it in your hands at 4- and
8 o'clock position on the tyre tread, with your forearms braced
against the inside of your thighs; ease the wheel off the central boss

I normally sit on the ground to do that.

Easier to squat down than to sit on the ground - and less likely to get
a wet or dirty bum! Also easier to move around - eg to pivot to one side
to put the tyre on the ground and then to pick up the new tyre and pivot
back round to offer it up to the hub.


I've done that in about 5 mins per wheel. I've swapped over all four
wheels (exchange nearside front and back, and offside front and back)
which needs a total of 6 wheelchanges (allowing for temporarily
fitting and removing the spare) inside half an hour.

I dont bother to rotate the tyres anymore.

Nor me, except that when I bought a new (second hand) car, its front
tyres were a lot more worn than the back ones (though still within the
legal range) so I swapped them round to have more tread on the front
driving wheels.

Since then, I've gone through several sets of tyres and I've never had
the front ones wear down so much compared with the back ones, and
they've always lasted a lot longer than 18,000 miles which is what the
car had done when I bought it. I'm not sure how the front tyres came to
be so worn in that distance.

A hexagonal nut on the side, into which you put the wheelbrace, would
be so much better, as you can disconnect the brace and rotate it back
from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock before putting it back on to turn it from
9 to 3 (or vice versa for lower the jack), for the initial stage when
there isn't enough ground clearance to turn the brace through the
lower half of its rotation.

Or just a normal ratchet socket handle.

Yes, that would be even better. Do they make sockets for the range of
wheel nuts used on most cars?

They must do for the tyre fitting establishments pneumatic tools.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 00:45:36 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Yes.

WHAT???? Are you sick or what, senile idiot? LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an old 28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money is
on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience, the
bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post links to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on the
bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't looked at
the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667




Well that's all very weird. I would love to see a photo of the
"stretched" tyre placed on top of the new tyre.

I just can see any way that the bead can stretch given that it's
steel wire. Even if it corroded somehow in storage there would be
no forces stretching the tyre.

Tim
--

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an old
28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money is
on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience, the
bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post links
to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on the
bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't looked at
the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667




Well that's all very weird. I would love to see a photo of the
"stretched" tyre placed on top of the new tyre.

OK down in Hawck at the moment but will do that when I get home......

I just can see any way that the bead can stretch given that it's
steel wire. Even if it corroded somehow in storage there would be
no forces stretching the tyre.

Tim

yes it was totally weird and unexpected ......

On 19/10/2018 20:18, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an old
28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money is
on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience, the
bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post links
to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on the
bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't looked at
the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667




Well that's all very weird. I would love to see a photo of the
"stretched" tyre placed on top of the new tyre.

OK down in Hawck at the moment but will do that when I get home......

This time could you manage something along the lines of a Pirelli
calendar shot, it is about tyres after all?

"Richard" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 20:18, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an
old
28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money
is
on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience,
the
bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch
fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the
tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post
links
to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined
and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on
the
bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't looked
at
the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667




Well that's all very weird. I would love to see a photo of the
"stretched" tyre placed on top of the new tyre.

OK down in Hawck at the moment but will do that when I get home......

This time could you manage something along the lines of a Pirelli calendar
shot, it is about tyres after all?

no

On 19/10/2018 21:08, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 20:18, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an
old
28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money
is
on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience,
the
bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch
fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the
tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post
links
to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined
and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on
the
bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't looked
at
the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667




Well that's all very weird. I would love to see a photo of the
"stretched" tyre placed on top of the new tyre.

OK down in Hawck at the moment but will do that when I get home......

This time could you manage something along the lines of a Pirelli calendar
shot, it is about tyres after all?

no


Just because you had to dig the tyre out from under the cat litter, you
don't have to be so negative.

"Richard" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 21:08, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 20:18, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an
old
28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you
have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My
money
is
on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience,
the
bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at
any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the
sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch
bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only
put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch
fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the
tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post
links
to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined
and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on
the
bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't
looked
at
the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667




Well that's all very weird. I would love to see a photo of the
"stretched" tyre placed on top of the new tyre.

OK down in Hawck at the moment but will do that when I get home......

This time could you manage something along the lines of a Pirelli
calendar
shot, it is about tyres after all?

no


Just because you had to dig the tyre out from under the cat litter, you
don't have to be so negative.

yes I do ....

On 19/10/2018 11:01, NY wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
news
And don't get me started on the pillock who invented the space-saving
spare wheel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-20984194

Ah good. We know where to send the hate mail ;-)

It sounds like a good idea, but it depends critically on that naive
assumption that "I asked how many times that person had used their spare
wheel. I was told they had never used it." My experience is different.
Driving on poorer country lanes and places where there may be crap on
the road, I have probably had a puncture every couple of years. The
other week I had to go off the edge of a road surface onto a verge to
make way for an oncoming tractor, and there was a lip on the edge of the
tarmac with a wheel-width trough in the grass verge. My wheel went into
it and the road surface gouged a hole in the inner sidewall of my almost
brand new tyre.

I had that, but with the tyre being toitally unusable, in a hire car,
with no spare, in the countryside and with no breakdown cover, as it was
a Northern Ireland hire car and I was a couple of miles into the Republic.

We had been to a funeral earlier in the day, followed by a reception. We
were just heading back for a quick visit to the cemetery.

The end result was that we had to wait 2 hours for someone to get to us,
pay for recovery and for a very overpriced replacement and the car was
out of commission until midday the following day - leaving us stranded
at the house we were staying at, with no transport, little food and
panicking whether we'd get the car back in time to get back to Belfast
for our flight home.

The whole evening and following morning ruined; a last trip to the grave
missed; far more money than necessary spent; and a whole lot of worry.
All when a spare, even a space-saver, would have allowed us to be on our
way in 10 minutes and we could have got a tyre at half the price the
next monring.

It was a small enough hole that I didn't notice and
completed my journey, but then found I had a flat tyre a hour later. And
I've lost count of the number of nails that I've had through the tread -
lucky most of the time the puncture has been repairable.

I've had or been a passenger in a car that has had a puncture, many
times over the years and almost all were unrepairable (due to position).
At least four that I can remember would have left us stranded if we
hadn't had a spare - one on the way to catch a ferry!

The problem with tyre sealant and inflator packs is that they are only a
get-you-home measure.

The problem is that for any puncture that can't simply be re-inflated
withot sealant for long enough to complete the journey, I have never
found sealant to work at all.

The tyre can never be repaired and must always be
replaced, whereas with a conventional tyre many punctures can be
repaired, allowing you to get a normal life out of tyre and not having
to replace it while it still has plenty of tread.

I've never yet had a wheel whose nuts I couldn't undo. With a cranked or
cross-shaped wheelbrace it is easy:

Even with a standard one, suddenly applying my weight on it has always
shifted the nuts.

snip

Modern parallelogram jacks don't make it easy because the handle won't
stay extended (it's designed to fold away for storage) and there is so
little ground clearance that I often scrape my knuckles on the ground. A
hexagonal nut on the side, into which you put the wheelbrace, would be
so much better, as you can disconnect the brace and rotate it back from
3 o'clock to 9 o'clock before putting it back on to turn it from 9 to 3
(or vice versa for lower the jack), for the initial stage when there
isn't enough ground clearance to turn the brace through the lower half
of its rotation.

Even better, you can use a ratchet or a battery drill.

SteveW

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:50:57 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

The problem is that for any puncture that can't simply be re-inflated
withot sealant for long enough to complete the journey, I have never
found sealant to work at all.

I really don't get it. We run Punctureseal in nearly all our vehicles
(cars, vans, motorbikes and trailers) and can't say we really worry
about or suffer from punctures?

We know it works (and Ultraseal before that) because we have used it
retrospectively and it has worked till the tyre was replaced when it
was worn out in *all* cases.

The only time(s) is hasn't is when people have pinched the sidewall
against a kerb and bitten a 5p sized hole out of the sidewall (and it
wouldn't have worked there no matter the size of the hole).

We carry a spare with all the vehicles it's practical to do so with
(cars, vans and trailers) because 1) we always have done and 2) there
will always be those instances where the sealant cannot work (as with
the examples above) and / or the rim itself becomes damaged (potholes
and the like).

I guess it you were changing tyres regularly because of high mileage
then I guess it could be 'expensive' but then for what it normally
costs to treat 4 tyres, divided into those miles and the convenience
of not having to 'suffer' a puncture, it might be worth it for even
stopping one puncture per set?

YMMV etc.

Cheers, T i m

On 19/10/2018 22:59, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:50:57 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

The problem is that for any puncture that can't simply be re-inflated
withot sealant for long enough to complete the journey, I have never
found sealant to work at all.

I really don't get it. We run Punctureseal in nearly all our vehicles
(cars, vans, motorbikes and trailers) and can't say we really worry
about or suffer from punctures?

The point is that sealants won't work with holes larger than that made
by a nail or similar, but with nails or screws, I have never needed to
use a sealant - just pumping them back up has enabled me to finish my
journey.

SteveW

On 19/10/2018 11:28, NY wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 09:35, Brian Reay wrote:
How difficult would it have been for them to put a hexagonal head on
the bolt of the same size as the wheelnuts? That would have been a
proper solution.

Your spare wheel idea gets my vote.

There is an argument for no spare wheel at all since frankly 50% of
the population can't change one -Â* its an AA (or equivalent) callout
and they are quite capable of asking what tyre size you have and
fitting one at the roadside as trucks have long done

Do the roadside trucks carry a supply of spare tyres of all sizes and
the ability to fit the right tyre to your wheel?

No, but the people they call up bring the right one with them

I never knew that. I
thought they would just fit your spare and then leave you to find a
garage to get the puncture repaired - assuming garages are open at that
time. I've never had to use the AA or RAC to change a wheel - apart from
the one occasion when I couldn't release the spare wheel from its
under-floor cage, due to the stupid "screwdriver and screw" arrangement
that Peugeot used on the 306, and on that occasion I was able to change
the wheel myself. The RAC man said he'd give me £5 if I could do it
quicker than he could have done *using my wheelbrace, not power tools*.
I won :-)

When I reported the puncture to RAC, I wasn't asked what size tyre so
the RAC man could make sure he had the correct size in his van, and he
didn't offer to replace the tyre once he arrived.

I was gobsmacked that my wife would wait for AA, RAC or Green Flag
instead of changing it herself and being on her way in a few minutes. I
offered to show her how I do it, but she said no. The only time I
wouldn't change a wheel is if it's the offside when I'm on the hard
shoulder of the motorway, and even then I'd sacrifice the tyre and crawl
along the hard shoulder to the next junction to find somewhere safe to
replace it, or else give it a quick burst from my electric pump to make
it safe(r) to drive on for a short distance.

You and I are in a minority.



--
€œIdeas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

On 19/10/2018 13:38, Jane wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 19/10/2018 09:35, Brian Reay wrote:
How difficult would it have been for them to put a hexagonal head on
the bolt of the same size as the wheelnuts? That would have been a
proper solution.

Your spare wheel idea gets my vote.

There is an argument for no spare wheel at all since frankly 50% of
the population can't change one -Â* its an AA (or equivalent) callout
and they are quite capable of asking what tyre size you have and
fitting one at the roadside as trucks have long done

Trucks dont do it like that.

In fact I suspoect that many drivers would be happy with what amnounst
to a total roadside care package ona contract hired car so they dont
have to bother about the car at all. They just phone up when it doesnt
do its stuff.

And plenty wouldnt due to the cost of that.

It actually works out very little different.


--
€œI know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.€�

ۥ Leo Tolstoy

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 23:09:23 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 19/10/2018 22:59, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:50:57 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

The problem is that for any puncture that can't simply be re-inflated
withot sealant for long enough to complete the journey, I have never
found sealant to work at all.

I really don't get it. We run Punctureseal in nearly all our vehicles
(cars, vans, motorbikes and trailers) and can't say we really worry
about or suffer from punctures?

The point is that sealants won't work with holes larger than that made
by a nail or similar,

Up to 5mm diameter I think.

but with nails or screws, I have never needed to
use a sealant - just pumping them back up has enabled me to finish my
journey.

To then do what?

The problem with leaving an object in the tyre might mean it does more
damage to the cords / ply. When the likes of Puncturseal the stuff
surrounds the object and helps it come back out, allowing the hole to
then fill with sealant, stop the leak and protect the cords from water
etc.

The 'point' of Punctureseal is that not only don't you suffer the
puncture and potential damage (running the tyre soft as it deflates,
assuming no TPS and leaving the object in the tyre etc) in the first
place and you don't have to do anything else, ever. shrug

Remember, this isn't just some 'get you home' solution, this is a
pre-emptive fit and forget thing.

As I said though, YMMV and they chances are it won't be as puncture /
trouble / inconvenience free as mine. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

- now squat down facing the wheel and hold it in your hands at 4- and 8
o'clock position on the tyre tread, with your forearms braced against
the inside of your thighs; ease the wheel off the central boss

I normally sit on the ground to do that.

Easier to squat down than to sit on the ground

Nope, much easier to sit on the ground with
your legs bent and either side of the wheel.

- and less likely to get a wet

But it isnt as soggy here as there.

or dirty bum!

Trivial to brush off your bum when you are finished.

Also easier to move around

Dont need to move around.

- eg to pivot to one side to put the tyre on the ground and then to pick
up the new tyre and pivot back round to offer it up to the hub.

Dont agree.

I've done that in about 5 mins per wheel. I've swapped over all four
wheels (exchange nearside front and back, and offside front and back)
which needs a total of 6 wheelchanges (allowing for temporarily fitting
and removing the spare) inside half an hour.

I dont bother to rotate the tyres anymore.

Nor me, except that when I bought a new (second hand) car, its front tyres
were a lot more worn than the back ones (though still within the legal
range) so I swapped them round to have more tread on the front driving
wheels.

I dont buy used anymore. Used the previous Golf for 45 years.

Since then, I've gone through several sets of tyres and I've never had the
front ones wear down so much compared with the back ones,

Mine do, because its a FWD and I drive pretty aggressively.

and they've always lasted a lot longer than 18,000 miles which is what the
car had done when I bought it. I'm not sure how the front tyres came to be
so worn in that distance.

Likely by driving pretty aggressively or due to rotating the tyres.

A hexagonal nut on the side, into which you put the wheelbrace, would be
so much better, as you can disconnect the brace and rotate it back from
3 o'clock to 9 o'clock before putting it back on to turn it from 9 to 3
(or vice versa for lower the jack), for the initial stage when there
isn't enough ground clearance to turn the brace through the lower half
of its rotation.

Or just a normal ratchet socket handle.

Yes, that would be even better. Do they make sockets for the range of
wheel nuts used on most cars?

Yep, even much bigger ones that that. I got one for the
beetle, think it was for the wheel bearing, forget now.

But I was talking about using it for the thing on the
end of the long threaded bolt that changes the height
of the parallelogram car jack which is usually supplied.
Mine is a flat with a hole in it which the end of the
wheel brace goes on to rotate it. Normal large sockets
the size of wheel nuts fit fine over that for the initial
winding up of the jack from flat where you can end
up barking your knuckles on the ground initially.

I guess it you were changing tyres regularly because of high mileage
then I guess it could be 'expensive' but then for what it normally
costs to treat 4 tyres, divided into those miles and the convenience
of not having to 'suffer' a puncture, it might be worth it for even
stopping one puncture per set?

YMMV etc.

Cheers, T i m


I have found it gums up the valves so I never use it .......

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 09:28:48 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:


I guess it you were changing tyres regularly because of high mileage
then I guess it could be 'expensive' but then for what it normally
costs to treat 4 tyres, divided into those miles and the convenience
of not having to 'suffer' a puncture, it might be worth it for even
stopping one puncture per set?

YMMV etc.

Cheers, T i m


I have found it gums up the valves so I never use it .......


You haven't because the chances are you have never used the likes of
Punctureseal.

Also, I have use it for over 20 years and *never* found it to gum up a
valve. Apart from the fact that it doesn't, it can't, as it's nowhere
near the valves?

So, the chances are you are referring to either the emergency
get_you_home / temporary latex foam in a can type solution or some
inferior product (that I have found myself).

I quite understand how if you are only familiar with the poor /
temporary products that you wouldn't be impressed with them, that's
why there are generally cr*p and 'the real thing' with all things in
life.

A cheap / cr*p electric drill wouldn't be a good advert for all
electric drills etc.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 09:28:48 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:


I guess it you were changing tyres regularly because of high mileage
then I guess it could be 'expensive' but then for what it normally
costs to treat 4 tyres, divided into those miles and the convenience
of not having to 'suffer' a puncture, it might be worth it for even
stopping one puncture per set?

YMMV etc.

Cheers, T i m


I have found it gums up the valves so I never use it .......


You haven't because the chances are you have never used the likes of
Punctureseal.

Also, I have use it for over 20 years and *never* found it to gum up a
valve. Apart from the fact that it doesn't, it can't, as it's nowhere
near the valves?

So, the chances are you are referring to either the emergency
get_you_home / temporary latex foam in a can type solution or some
inferior product (that I have found myself).

I quite understand how if you are only familiar with the poor /
temporary products that you wouldn't be impressed with them, that's
why there are generally cr*p and 'the real thing' with all things in
life.

A cheap / cr*p electric drill wouldn't be a good advert for all
electric drills etc.

Cheers, T i m


it was that green stuff....slime

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:58:35 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Easier to squat down than to sit on the ground

Nope

LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:09:09 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

You haven't because the chances are you have never used the likes of
Punctureseal.

snip


it was that green stuff....slime


Quite. We have it in our cycles, where it's fine and being Schrader
valves we can always take them out etc.

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 10:09:09 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

You haven't because the chances are you have never used the likes of
Punctureseal.

snip


it was that green stuff....slime


Quite. We have it in our cycles, where it's fine and being Schrader
valves we can always take them out etc.

Cheers, T i m

yes I find they seal the valves as well and you cant pump them up .....

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:03:12 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip
it was that green stuff....slime


Quite. We have it in our cycles, where it's fine and being Schrader
valves we can always take them out etc.


yes I find they seal the valves as well and you cant pump them up .....

Where 'they' is not including Punctureseal?

The point is, 'Slime' stays liquid so *can* get back into the valve.
Punctureseal is thrown to the outside (or the inside of) the tyre as
soon as you first pull away after 'installing' it and that's where it
stays, nowhere near the valve or even the rim / sidewalls.

As I was saying, it's a shame that the likes of Punctureseal are
sullied by people not understanding that not all tyre sealants are
created equal (and post / say stuff as if they were).

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:43:41 +0100
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote:

yip 28 inch


English "28 inch" or German "28 inch"? There's half an inch difference
in the diameter of those.

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20181020233448.60296533@Mars...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:43:41 +0100
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote:

yip 28 inch


English "28 inch" or German "28 inch"? There's half an inch difference
in the diameter of those.

So does Germany actually use "28" in the specification of its wheel
diameter? It must be one of the few measurements in the imperial system that
has survived Europe's use of the SI metric system. Are there any other cases
where items are sold in imperial units (as opposed to being an integer
number of inches which is translated into metric *)? If there is 1/2 inch
difference in diameter of English and German 28" wheels, which one is the
true diameter that you would measure? Is one the external diameter of the
rim and the other the diameter of the tyre bead which is slightly smaller
and has to be levered over the rin?

Incidentally, has anyone actually had to use tyre levers for fitting a
bicycle tyre? I always find that I just tuck the bead in at one side, then
ease it in by moving my thumbs towards the opposite side and then pull it
away from the rim at the very opposite until it pops into place; and vice
versa for removing. You'd think that a lever would be needed at least to
make the bead pop out from the rim when removing, but I've never found one
necessary. Am I unusual?


(*) For example I doubt whether 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch floppy and hard disks
are/were advertised that way in Germany, France etc - they'd be specified in
millimetres.

"NY" wrote in message
news
"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20181020233448.60296533@Mars...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:43:41 +0100
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote:

yip 28 inch


English "28 inch" or German "28 inch"? There's half an inch difference
in the diameter of those.

So does Germany actually use "28" in the specification of its wheel
diameter? It must be one of the few measurements in the imperial system
that has survived Europe's use of the SI metric system. Are there any
other cases where items are sold in imperial units (as opposed to being an
integer number of inches which is translated into metric *)? If there is
1/2 inch difference in diameter of English and German 28" wheels, which
one is the true diameter that you would measure? Is one the external
diameter of the rim and the other the diameter of the tyre bead which is
slightly smaller and has to be levered over the rin?

Incidentally, has anyone actually had to use tyre levers for fitting a
bicycle tyre?

Yes, I used to more than half a century ago now when I used to ride one.

I always find that I just tuck the bead in at one side, then ease it in by
moving my thumbs towards the opposite side and then pull it away from the
rim at the very opposite until it pops into place; and vice versa for
removing. You'd think that a lever would be needed at least to make the
bead pop out from the rim when removing, but I've never found one
necessary. Am I unusual?

Yep, never encountered anyone doing it like that.

(*) For example I doubt whether 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch floppy and hard disks
are/were advertised that way in Germany, France etc - they'd be specified
in millimetres.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:51:51 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



Incidentally, has anyone actually had to use tyre levers for fitting a
bicycle tyre?

Yes, I used to more than half a century ago now when I used to ride one.

Nobody gives a ****.

I always find that I just tuck the bead in at one side, then ease it in by
moving my thumbs towards the opposite side and then pull it away from the
rim at the very opposite until it pops into place; and vice versa for
removing. You'd think that a lever would be needed at least to make the
bead pop out from the rim when removing, but I've never found one
necessary. Am I unusual?

Yep, never encountered anyone doing it like that.

Nobody gives a ****.

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:43:06 +0100
"NY" wrote:

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20181020233448.60296533@Mars...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:43:41 +0100
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote:

[...]

English "28 inch" or German "28 inch"? There's half an inch
difference in the diameter of those.

So does Germany actually use "28" in the specification of its wheel
diameter?

You'll still see their traditional "28 x 1-5/8 x 1-3/8" marked on the
side of many tyres.

It must be one of the few measurements in the imperial
system that has survived Europe's use of the SI metric system.

Some Germans still use Fuß, Zoll and Pfund as we use foot, inch and
pound.

Are
there any other cases where items are sold in imperial units (as
opposed to being an integer number of inches which is translated into
metric *)? If there is 1/2 inch difference in diameter of English and
German 28" wheels, which one is the true diameter that you would
measure? Is one the external diameter of the rim and the other the
diameter of the tyre bead which is slightly smaller and has to be
levered over the rin?

The ISO/ETRTO measurement is the actual millimetre diameter of the
bead/seat, which is the same for the tyre and the rim, although there
are variations in manufacturing tolerances which lead to some tyre/rim
combinations being looser or tighter than normal. The traditional tyre
sizes are based on effective diameter: a fat tyre on a smaller rim has
the same diameter as a skinny tyre on a larger rim, hence you get two
English 26 inch tyre sizes, one with a width of 1-1/4 inch and the
other of 1-3/8, with a corresponding 1/4 inch difference in rim size
which seems pretty reasonable. But there is some strangeness - English
28 inch (28 x 1-1/2 as fitted to vintage "police bikes") is 635mm, a bit
bigger than English 27 inch at 630mm but the German "28 inch" (commonly
called 700C) is 622mm, actually smaller than 27 inch.

Incidentally, has anyone actually had to use tyre levers for fitting
a bicycle tyre? I always find that I just tuck the bead in at one
side, then ease it in by moving my thumbs towards the opposite side
and then pull it away from the rim at the very opposite until it pops
into place; and vice versa for removing. You'd think that a lever
would be needed at least to make the bead pop out from the rim when
removing, but I've never found one necessary. Am I unusual?

Wider tyres on wider rims tend to be easy to fit and remove without
levers, although some cheap tyres can have very thick inflexible beads
that make it harder to get them into the well of the rim, in order to
get that bit of slack to pop the last bit over the edge. Conversely some
wide but very light and flexible tyres (e.g. racing mountain bikes
tyres with Kevlar beads) can be fiddly to fit because they're so floppy
they won't stay on until they're held in shape by the partially
inflated inner tube. Narrower tyre/rim combinations are more likely to
be too tight to fit without levers; I have such a combination on one
of my bikes, and the usual method of strapping the bead into the well
of the rim just doesn't work. That one needs the application of my
workshop-quality steel levers, and it's still not easy. You have to be
very careful not to pinch the inner tube when you're using levers, but
it shouldn't normally be necessary when fitting a tyre - when removing
a tyre it may be quicker and easier to user levers, and if you're going
to bin the tube you don't care about pinching it anyway.

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20181021172018.49b9fdb8@Mars...
It must be one of the few measurements in the imperial
system that has survived Europe's use of the SI metric system.

Some Germans still use Fuß, Zoll and Pfund as we use foot, inch and
pound.

Well I never knew that. I always thought that units such as foot, inch and
pound were peculiar (*very* peculiar!!!) to Britain and countries such as
US, Canada and Australia that had British ex pats. I hadn't realised that
non English-speaking countries had at one time used imperial units.

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Chris French" wrote in message
...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." Wrote in message:

"Richard" wrote in message
news On 18/10/2018 13:44, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
After a puncture and a ruined tyre I tried to put back on an
old 28
inch
bike tyre that WAS on the bike years ago only to find its
diameter
was
now
far to big to fit the rim....is this normal ?


Hmm, either the bead wire has broken (on both sides) or you have
simply
mis-remembered which bike or wheel the tyre came off. My money
is on
the
latter.

I've kept many old bike tyres for years and in my experience,
the bead
*never* changes in size. Have you had new wheels put on at any
time
in
the
past? What size did the ruined tyre claim to be in the sidewall?
What
was
the figure printed on the sidewall of the "stretched" tyre?

Tim

come on it says 28 inch on the tyre ,,,,,,and it IS 28 inch bike
....

But are the rims 28inch?

the rims are 28 inch
the tyre was used... I took it off the bike years ago... I only put
it
back
on because the one I was using was destroyed... the tyre said 28
inch.....never mind it is in the bin and a new 28 inch
fitted......no
idea
what happened




There are two different '28 inch ' tyre sizes though, those with
a bead diameter of 635mm, otherwise known as 700B and those with
a bead diameter of 622 mm, otherwise known as 700C.

You can also get different '26 inch' tyres as well.

Which is why it's always better to refer to tyre size by their ISO
sizes, as no confusion then

all 700c as far as I know...


That's nearer 26" than 28". As I said, it's most unlikely that the
tyre
changed size. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Post
links to
photos of what is *actually* printed on the sidewalks of your ruined
and
"stretched" tyre please. Tyres just Do Not Stretch in storage.

Tim

OK just been out the back door the one that is too large to fit is on
the bin and the one that does fit is on the bikeobviously...haven't
looked at the sizes myself but I will stand by your findings...thanks

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=5416389667

they look the same size to me ......????

the destroyed one at the bottom of th bin covered in cat litter which I
am not going to remove from the bin reads 37-622 (28x 15/8x 13/8) ....

If you want I will dig it out of the bin tomorrow and photograph the three
of them side by side......all the same size ......

looking at them both you can see one is bigger than the other but it doesn't
photograph well...tim can I post them to you to see for yourself the
difference in diameter?.....

In article
,
says...

Well I never knew that. I always thought that units such as foot, inch and
pound were peculiar (*very* peculiar!!!) to Britain and countries such as
US, Canada and Australia that had British ex pats. I hadn't realised that
non English-speaking countries had at one time used imperial units.

In France, if you ask for une livre de beurre (a pound of
butter) you will get 500g of butter - a near miss to 454g.

--

Terry

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On 24/10/2018 13:56, Terry Casey wrote:
In article
,
says...

Well I never knew that. I always thought that units such as foot, inch and
pound were peculiar (*very* peculiar!!!) to Britain and countries such as
US, Canada and Australia that had British ex pats. I hadn't realised that
non English-speaking countries had at one time used imperial units.

In France, if you ask for une livre de beurre (a pound of
butter) you will get 500g of butter - a near miss to 454g.

Don't they also use BSP pipe sizes and threads?

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 13:56:14 +0100, Terry Casey wrote:

In France, if you ask for une livre de beurre (a pound of
butter) you will get 500g of butter - a near miss to 454g.

In Germany, a pound is a half-kilo, 500g , with the definition dating to 1858.

Inch as in "Zoll" is used in plumbing: 1/2" pipe, 3/4" elbow, gasket for a 2"
union. Also in the vernacular, as a "Zollstock", meaning "any yardstick" even if
it's two meters, folding, and not a yard.

"Fuss" (foot) I have never heard used...


Thomas Prufer