Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegal but didnt explain how or whay that could be .

How can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed 60+ years ago? Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I plan selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage system ( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me please?

Thank you.

( PS to those who helped with my storage heaters, I am am grateful. OH is still deciding which he wants to try - repair or new).

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegal but didnt explain how or whay that could be .

How can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed 60+ years ago? Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I plan selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage system ( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me please?


It's not exactly new news as the changes were announced in 2015 to take
effect in 2020 (unless you sell before then). This may help - if only
to confirm the bad news

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/general-binding-rules-small-sewage-discharge-to-a-surface-water


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegal but didnt explain how or whay that could be .

How can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed 60+ years ago?

That exempts you from the need for your tank to meet any British
Standard, but the EA can still make rules about discharges from the tank.

Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I plan selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage system ( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me please?

Essentially, if your existing septic tank discharges to a waterway, you
have to upgrade it before 1st January 2020, or when you sell your house,
whichever is the sooner. You can either replace it with a sewage
treatment plant, the outflow from which is clean enough to be discharged
into a waterway, or run the outlet from your existing tank to drainage
field. The latter has to comply with current British Standards, so it is
something you need to get a specialist company in to do.


--
--

Colin Bignell

On 15/08/18 12:26, Nightjar wrote:
On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talkingÂ* to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the
impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegalÂ* but didnt
explain how or whay that could be .

HowÂ* can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed
60+ years ago?

That exempts you from the need for your tank to meet any British
Standard, but the EA can still make rules about discharges from the tank.

Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I plan
selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage system
( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me
please?

Essentially, if your existing septic tank discharges to a waterway, you
have to upgrade it before 1st January 2020, or when you sell your house,
whichever is the sooner. You can either replace it with a sewage
treatment plant, the outflow from which is clean enough to be discharged
into a waterway, or run the outlet from your existing tank to drainage
field. The latter has to comply with current British Standards, so it is
something you need to get a specialist company in to do.


Cost to install a sewage treatment plant (electric) could be around
£8-10,000

So budget for it.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:03:42 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

snip

As the actual question has been answered elsewhere ... ;-)

Q. If you and your kids were playing in the river downstream of
someone else's ancient septic tank outlet, wouldn't you like to think
something could be done about it?

How many people would voluntarily 'upgrade' their systems if the
legislation wasn't brought into play?

And wouldn't you like to think that the same rules applied if you and
you family were enjoying a river in Italy or Spain?

I wonder which EU member state asked the EU to look into this as they
rarely think these things upon their own?

On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:59 PM UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 15/08/2018 12:03,


Essentially, if your existing septic tank discharges to a waterway, you
have to upgrade it before 1st January 2020, or when you sell your house,
whichever is the sooner. You can either replace it with a sewage
treatment plant, the outflow from which is clean enough to be discharged
into a waterway, or run the outlet from your existing tank to drainage
field. The latter has to comply with current British Standards, so it is
something you need to get a specialist company in to do.


Oh, thank you. So it doesnt apply then. My drainage field zig zags across my own land and drains into the soil somehow or other through those holes in the pipes that go from the outlet ( if that makes sense).

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:33:53 PM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:03:42 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

snip

As the actual question has been answered elsewhere ... ;-)

Q. If you and your kids were playing in the river downstream of
someone else's ancient septic tank outlet, wouldn't you like to think
something could be done about it?

How many people would voluntarily 'upgrade' their systems if the
legislation wasn't brought into play?

And wouldn't you like to think that the same rules applied if you and
you family were enjoying a river in Italy or Spain?

I wonder which EU member state asked the EU to look into this as they
rarely think these things upon their own?

On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

Cheers, T i m

Can I be brutally honest? Why should it bother me? Most of the sewerage discharged from the water companies is next to raw when it hits the sea anyway.

I dont discharge into a stream or river anyway.

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:29:39 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/08/18 12:26, Nightjar wrote:
On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talkingÂ* to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the
impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegalÂ* but didnt
explain how or whay that could be .

HowÂ* can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed
60+ years ago?

That exempts you from the need for your tank to meet any British
Standard, but the EA can still make rules about discharges from the tank.

Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I plan
selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage system
( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me
please?

Essentially, if your existing septic tank discharges to a waterway, you
have to upgrade it before 1st January 2020, or when you sell your house,
whichever is the sooner. You can either replace it with a sewage
treatment plant, the outflow from which is clean enough to be discharged
into a waterway, or run the outlet from your existing tank to drainage
field. The latter has to comply with current British Standards, so it is
something you need to get a specialist company in to do.


Cost to install a sewage treatment plant (electric) could be around
£8-10,000

So budget for it.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

Dont think I need to , thanks. I could find that money if necessay as it happens but it seems it may well not apply to me. I am not near a river or stream and my drains run across my own land.

In message ,
writes
Can I be brutally honest? Why should it bother me? Most of the sewerage
discharged from the water companies is next to raw when it hits the sea
anyway.


Having kept a boat on a mooring not far from a treatment works, I can
confirm that.

And when, locally, they trumpeted about the huge improvements made, all
I could see was that the pollution moved further away. I just think they
mashed it up a bit more and added more pipe to the outlet.

Just another reason why I, and my son, are so angered by the huge
amounts we pay to UU and WW.
--
Bill

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:42:44 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

snip

Q. If you and your kids were playing in the river downstream of
someone else's ancient septic tank outlet, wouldn't you like to think
something could be done about it?


Can I be brutally honest?

Of course, it's Usenet. ;-)

Why should it bother me?

Because I guess you and your children plan to carry on living on this
planet?

Most of the sewerage discharged from the water companies is next to raw when it hits the sea anyway.

Possibly true, but:

1) That's the sea and not a local (and potentially highly confined)
watercourse.

2) Two wrongs don't make a right?

I dont discharge into a stream or river anyway.

Then you are ok. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
I dont discharge into a stream or river anyway.

What are the current rules about discharging grey water (bath water, washing
up, washing machine) into a land drain and ultimately a stream, rather than
into a septic tank? Obviously all those things going into a sewer when you
have mains drainage, but when you have a septic tank, is it more important
to put grey water into a septic tank where it is treated and allowed to rot,
or is it more important to limit the amount of liquid going into the tank so
it works better?

I ask because the cottage where I'm living at the moment has a septic tank
dating from the mid 70s at the latest where the toilets discharge, but all
other water goes into a communal land drain for the village (along with
rainwater which has always been required to go into a separate soakaway, for
both mains and septic tank) and this ends up in a stream. Those drainage
conditions were last reviewed in the early 90s when a new bathroom and
utility room were built. I imagine that any modern rules aren't applied
retrospectively.

It's a two-chamber (two-manhole) septic tank, with an outflow of treated
water (guess where it goes!), rather than a sealed single-chamber cesspit
which would need to be emptied far more frequently.

I imagine a lot of people would dispute the theory its all based on as it
has to be a heck of a lot of years the old systems have operated and we do
not seem to have had any issues so far.


Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the
impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegal but didnt
explain how or whay that could be .

How can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed 60+
years ago? Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I
plan selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage
system ( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me
please?


It's not exactly new news as the changes were announced in 2015 to take
effect in 2020 (unless you sell before then). This may help - if only to
confirm the bad news

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/general-binding-rules-small-sewage-discharge-to-a-surface-water


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

I'd be tempted to get an impartial bit of advice to make sure it complies,
and if it does then you have no worries, if not then you have a couple of
years to get it done, however I still feel in the vast expanse of things
that need fixing about sewage and rivers, sceptic tanks are like a pin
prickcompared to the number of commercial sewage plants that just dump raw
sewage if it gets too much water through it and overflows.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:59 PM UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 15/08/2018 12:03,


Essentially, if your existing septic tank discharges to a waterway, you
have to upgrade it before 1st January 2020, or when you sell your house,
whichever is the sooner. You can either replace it with a sewage
treatment plant, the outflow from which is clean enough to be discharged
into a waterway, or run the outlet from your existing tank to drainage
field. The latter has to comply with current British Standards, so it is
something you need to get a specialist company in to do.


Oh, thank you. So it doesnt apply then. My drainage field zig zags across
my own land and drains into the soil somehow or other through those holes
in the pipes that go from the outlet ( if that makes sense).

On 15/08/2018 12:26, Nightjar wrote:
On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talkingÂ* to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the
impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegalÂ* but didnt
explain how or whay that could be .

HowÂ* can they retrospectively legislate for speptic tanks installed
60+ years ago?

That exempts you from the need for your tank to meet any British
Standard, but the EA can still make rules about discharges from the tank.

Apparently it will stop me ever selling my house ( not that I plan
selling it) because I dont have something called a bio drainage system
( a load of reeds stuck in a bed??? ).

Does anyone know about this and can they explain it properly for me
please?

Essentially, if your existing septic tank discharges to a waterway, you
have to upgrade it before 1st January 2020, or when you sell your house,
whichever is the sooner. You can either replace it with a sewage
treatment plant, the outflow from which is clean enough to be discharged
into a waterway, or run the outlet from your existing tank to drainage
field. The latter has to comply with current British Standards, so it is
something you need to get a specialist company in to do.


There is an important item that hasn't been quoted:
"Your treatment system must meet the relevant British Standard which was
in force at the time of installation. The standards currently in force
for new systems a"
....
"BS 6297:2007 for drainage fields"
....

"*If there were no British Standards in place when your treatment system
was installed (that is before 1983) you do not need to do anything else
to meet this requirement*."

.... bottom line: if you do not discharge to a water course and have a
drainage field that was installed before 1983 then the new rules are not
relevant to you. Don't waste time or money, keep your head down and
remember to get the tank pumped-out regularly so that the drainage field
doesn't get blocked.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:03:42 -0700, aprilsweetheartrose wrote:

Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the
impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegal but didnt
explain how or whay that could be .

You said it yourself: EU regs. The EU can make anything they like
illegal. And there's a lot of money in doing so - for *them* that is.
EU = Corruption. Never forget it.





--
NO DEAL! NO SURRENDER TO THE EUSSR!

"NY" Wrote in message:
"T i m" wrote in message
...
I dont discharge into a stream or river anyway.

What are the current rules about discharging grey water (bath water, washing
up, washing machine) into a land drain and ultimately a stream, rather than
into a septic tank? Obviously all those things going into a sewer when you
have mains drainage, but when you have a septic tank, is it more important
to put grey water into a septic tank where it is treated and allowed to rot,
or is it more important to limit the amount of liquid going into the tank so
it works better?

I ask because the cottage where I'm living at the moment has a septic tank
dating from the mid 70s at the latest where the toilets discharge, but all
other water goes into a communal land drain for the village (along with
rainwater which has always been required to go into a separate soakaway, for
both mains and septic tank) and this ends up in a stream. Those drainage
conditions were last reviewed in the early 90s when a new bathroom and
utility room were built. I imagine that any modern rules aren't applied
retrospectively.

It's a two-chamber (two-manhole) septic tank, with an outflow of treated
water (guess where it goes!)

"Treated" in what way?

Going straight into the land drain? Yum!
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:26:53 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

The EA had no choice in the matter. The Waste Framework Directive is
a European Union Directive -

DIRECTIVE 2008/98/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 19 November 2008 on waste and repealing certain Directives

When I was a child the main drainage dyke from the nearby town ran past our village into the tidal river. Many houses along the way simply piped wc effluent straight into the dyke, as did most of the houses in the town although a lot of houses had chemical toilets still.
As children we donned Wellington boots and caught sticklebacks in jam jars in the dyke. Even at that age we knew what the bits of paper and brown lumps were. We avoided them. Somehow no one caught any interesting diseases despite the dire warnings from parents. We built up immunity.

On 15/08/2018 12:33, T i m wrote:
On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

He's got non-hodgkins lymphoma.

This is a disease of unknown aetiology, just like all the
related leukeamias and other diseases.

He is just trying his luck to blame Monsanto for a big
compo payout.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:03:42 -0700, aprilsweetheartrose wrote:

Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

I couldnt get out of him what changes exactly but he left me with the
impression ( worryingly) that my septic tank is now illegal but didnt
explain how or whay that could be .

You said it yourself: EU regs. The EU can make anything they like
illegal. And there's a lot of money in doing so - for *them* that is.
EU = Corruption. Never forget it.

You could actually try reading the rest of the thread and learn, for a
change. Fat chance.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andrew" wrote in message
news
On 15/08/2018 12:33, T i m wrote:
On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

He's got non-hodgkins lymphoma.

This is a disease of unknown aetiology, just like all the
related leukeamias and other diseases.

He is just trying his luck to blame Monsanto for a big
compo payout.

and seems to have succeeded

tim

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:35:34 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Jim K wrote:

It's a two-chamber (two-manhole) septic tank, with an outflow of
treated water (guess where it goes!)

"Treated" in what way?

Settle ment and anerobic digestion, like any other two chamber septic
tank. The out flow isn't particulary pleasant but it's not raw
sewage.

Going straight into the land drain? Yum!

Define "land drain". Is that: A system of buried perforated pipes
designed to remove water from the land. Or a system of buried
perforated pipes designed to distribute water into the land?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 15/08/2018 16:04, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:26:53 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

The EA had no choice in the matter. The Waste Framework Directive is
a European Union Directive -

DIRECTIVE 2008/98/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 19 November 2008 on waste and repealing certain Directives

Which was supported by the UK.

--
--

Colin Bignell

"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:35:34 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Jim K wrote:

It's a two-chamber (two-manhole) septic tank, with an outflow of
treated water (guess where it goes!)

"Treated" in what way?

Settle ment and anerobic digestion, like any other two chamber septic
tank. The out flow isn't particulary pleasant but it's not raw
sewage.

I doubt much anaerobic has gone in in the liquor, a smidge of
aerobic in the 2nd chamber (depending on flow rates) & then "down
the nearest hole" ending in a stream...

Maybe this is one of the sort that the EA is targeting?


Going straight into the land drain? Yum!

Define "land drain". Is that: A system of buried perforated pipes
designed to remove water from the land. Or a system of buried
perforated pipes designed to distribute water into the land?


I refer you to the earlier description...
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:45:17 +0100, tim... wrote:

"Andrew" wrote in message
news
On 15/08/2018 12:33, T i m wrote:
On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

He's got non-hodgkins lymphoma.

This is a disease of unknown aetiology, just like all the
related leukeamias and other diseases.

He is just trying his luck to blame Monsanto for a big
compo payout.

and seems to have succeeded

....and his case was helped by the Monsanto dirty tricks he received.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:17:26 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 15/08/2018 12:33, T i m wrote:
On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

He's got non-hodgkins lymphoma.

This is a disease of unknown aetiology, just like all the
related leukeamias and other diseases.

He is just trying his luck to blame Monsanto for a big
compo payout.

Fairly clueless comment there, mate.

"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
It's a two-chamber (two-manhole) septic tank, with an outflow of
treated water (guess where it goes!)

"Treated" in what way?

Settle ment and anerobic digestion, like any other two chamber septic
tank. The out flow isn't particulary pleasant but it's not raw
sewage.

I doubt much anaerobic has gone in in the liquor, a smidge of
aerobic in the 2nd chamber (depending on flow rates) & then "down
the nearest hole" ending in a stream...

I thought that was the whole point of septic tanks and the advantage over
cesspits - that the sewage is treated enough (by settlement and
aerobic/anaerobic digestion) that the liquid *is* clean enough to discharge
into a soakaway, and doesn't all need to be contained hermetically and
removed by a honey wagon. So a septic tank only needs to be emptied of solid
sludge infrequently whereas a cesspit needs to be drained more frequently of
everything that goes into it.

"NY" Wrote in message:
"Jim K" wrote in message
o.uk...
It's a two-chamber (two-manhole) septic tank, with an outflow of
treated water (guess where it goes!)

"Treated" in what way?

Settle ment and anerobic digestion, like any other two chamber septic
tank. The out flow isn't particulary pleasant but it's not raw
sewage.

I doubt much anaerobic has gone in in the liquor, a smidge of
aerobic in the 2nd chamber (depending on flow rates) & then "down
the nearest hole" ending in a stream...

I thought that was the whole point of septic tanks and the advantage over
cesspits - that the sewage is treated enough (by settlement and
aerobic/anaerobic digestion) that the liquid *is* clean enough to discharge
into a soakaway....

By "Clean enough" you mean " the chunky bits have been seperated"?

"septic tank*is a chamber made of concrete, fiberglass, PVC or
plastic, through which domestic wastewater (sewage) flows
for*primary treatment.[1]*Settling and*anaerobicprocesses reduce
solids and organics, but the treatment is only
moderate.[1]*Septic tank systems are a type of*onsite sewage
facility(OSSF). They can be used in areas that are not connected
to a*sewerage*system, such as rural areas. The treated liquid
effluent is commonly disposed in a*septic drain fieldwhich
provides further treatment. However,*groundwater pollution*may
occur and can be a problem"

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 15/08/2018 16:04, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:26:53 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said
that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

The EA had no choice in the matter. The Waste Framework Directive is
a European Union Directive -

DIRECTIVE 2008/98/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 19 November 2008 on waste and repealing certain Directives

Which was supported by the UK.

willingly, or because it was obvious that they couldn't form a blocking
majority

tim



--
--

Colin Bignell

On 15/08/18 12:42, wrote:
Can I be brutally honest? Why should it bother me? Most of the
sewerage discharged from the water companies is next to raw when it
hits the sea anyway.


Not it damn well is NOT


I dont discharge into a stream or river anyway.


Ultimately, you do.


--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On 15/08/2018 12:33, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 04:03:42 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Sorry to be a pain but I was talking to someone this moring who said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic Tanks.

snip

As the actual question has been answered elsewhere ... ;-)

Q. If you and your kids were playing in the river downstream of
someone else's ancient septic tank outlet, wouldn't you like to think
something could be done about it?

How many people would voluntarily 'upgrade' their systems if the
legislation wasn't brought into play?

And wouldn't you like to think that the same rules applied if you and
you family were enjoying a river in Italy or Spain?

I wonder which EU member state asked the EU to look into this as they
rarely think these things upon their own?

On a similar topic, isn't someone in the States currently taking
Monsanto to court over heath issues suggested to be down to his
exposure to Glyphosate (and wasn't it Germany who asked the EU to look
into it)?

Cheers, T i m


there are some on here who would gladly send the kids to Australia for
swimming in someone else's river

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:10:33 +0100, NY wrote:

I thought that was the whole point of septic tanks and the advantage
over cesspits - that the sewage is treated enough (by settlement and
aerobic/anaerobic digestion) that the liquid *is* clean enough to
discharge into a soakaway, and doesn't all need to be contained
hermetically and removed by a honey wagon. So a septic tank only needs
to be emptied of solid sludge infrequently whereas a cesspit needs to be
drained more frequently of everything that goes into it.

That sums up septic tanks and cesspits fairly well. The only addition
is that a cesspit has no out flow at all, it has to be emptied before
it over flows...

The other type of small sewage plant is an aerobic digester. This has
a powered stirer and air pump that keeps the the lot moving and
aerated. The outflow from one of these is "clean" enough to discharge
directly into a water course.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Cynic" wrote in message
...
When I was a child the main drainage dyke from the nearby town ran past
our village into the tidal river. Many houses along the way simply piped
wc effluent straight into the dyke, as did most of the houses in the town
although a lot of houses had chemical toilets still.
As children we donned Wellington boots and caught sticklebacks in jam jars
in the dyke. Even at that age we knew what the bits of paper and brown
lumps were. We avoided them. Somehow no one caught any interesting
diseases despite the dire warnings from parents. We built up immunity.

And yet clean water saved countless infant mortalitys.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:10:33 +0100, NY wrote:

I thought that was the whole point of septic tanks and the advantage
over cesspits - that the sewage is treated enough (by settlement and
aerobic/anaerobic digestion) that the liquid *is* clean enough to
discharge into a soakaway, and doesn't all need to be contained
hermetically and removed by a honey wagon. So a septic tank only needs
to be emptied of solid sludge infrequently whereas a cesspit needs to be
drained more frequently of everything that goes into it.

That sums up septic tanks and cesspits fairly well. The only addition
is that a cesspit has no out flow at all, it has to be emptied before
it over flows...

I thought I'd covered that point by saying that a cesspit is hermetically
sealed (well, sealed so no liquid can get out - air has to get out to make
space for the sewage going in) and that it needs to be drained more
frequently of everything that goes into it.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 15/08/18 12:42, wrote:
Can I be brutally honest? Why should it bother me? Most of the
sewerage discharged from the water companies is next to raw when it
hits the sea anyway.


Not it damn well is NOT


I dont discharge into a stream or river anyway.


Ultimately, you do.

Not if you are nowhere near one and it ends up being
transpired from what's growing on the discharge field.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 05:44:42 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:


And yet clean water saved countless infant mortalitys.

Darn ...and this thread was Rot-free, so far! tsk

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp addressing Rot Speed:
"You really are a clueless pillock."
MID:

On 15/08/2018 20:07, tim... wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 15/08/2018 16:04, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:26:53 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talkingÂ* to someone this moring who
said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic
Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

The EA had no choice in the matter.Â* The Waste Framework Directive is
a European Union DirectiveÂ* -

DIRECTIVE 2008/98/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 19 November 2008 on waste and repealing certain Directives

Which was supported by the UK.

willingly, or because it was obvious that they couldn't form a blocking
majority

Member states are free to oppose any proposed legislation, whether they
can raise a blocking majority or not. The UK has done so about 2% of the
time in votes this century. However, there will be no moves to repeal
amend or revoke this particular legislation after Brexit, so it
evidently has the full support of the UK and of the Environment Agency
in particular.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 16/08/18 09:29, Nightjar wrote:
On 15/08/2018 20:07, tim... wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 15/08/2018 16:04, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:26:53 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

On 15/08/2018 12:03, wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but I was talkingÂ* to someone this moring who
said that the EU ( them again!) were changing the rules on Septic
Tanks.

Not the EU, but our own Environment Agency, so Brexit won't stop the
rules coming into effect from 2020.

The EA had no choice in the matter.Â* The Waste Framework Directive is
a European Union DirectiveÂ* -

DIRECTIVE 2008/98/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 19 November 2008 on waste and repealing certain Directives

Which was supported by the UK.

willingly, or because it was obvious that they couldn't form a
blocking majority

Member states are free to oppose any proposed legislation, whether they
can raise a blocking majority or not. The UK has done so about 2% of the
time in votes this century. However, there will be no moves to repeal
amend or revoke this particular legislation after Brexit, so it
evidently has the full support of the UK and of the Environment Agency
in particular.

Its not particularly onerous. But it does set a precedent for
retroactive building regulations which is slightly worrying.


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 16/08/2018 09:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
....
Its not particularly onerous. But it does set a precedent for
retroactive building regulations which is slightly worrying.

There is no retroactive application of construction standards to septic
tanks. This legislation merely bans existing practices that may be
damaging to the environment. Precedents for that go back to 1306, when
Edward I banned the burning of coal in London. The Clean Air Act 1956 is
a more modern example, but virtually all environmental legislation does
something similar.


--
--

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/08/2018 09:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
...
Its not particularly onerous. But it does set a precedent for retroactive
building regulations which is slightly worrying.

There is no retroactive application of construction standards to septic
tanks. This legislation merely bans existing practices that may be
damaging to the environment. Precedents for that go back to 1306, when
Edward I banned the burning of coal in London. The Clean Air Act 1956 is a
more modern example, but virtually all environmental legislation does
something similar.

Gosh, I hadn't realised that coal smoke was a problem in London as far back
as 1306 with the *very* much smaller number of houses that long ago.