UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31   Report Post  
Old February 18th 04, 01:11 PM
T i m
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:15:26 -0000, "Stephen Gilkes"
wrote:

I am loathe to spend any more money than I have to.

Do I really need to avoid fixing the battens to the mortar?


As suggested I'd go with a cheap SDS and drill where it's suitable
rather than trying to pick up the joints.

Plugging into the mortar will be ok as long as it's good and sound.

You could also use Gripfill (green tube) to 'glue' the battens to the
wall? I think the stuff is brilliant and for me the test for how well
something is likely to stick is how easy it is to clean off yer
fingers / tools! They also do a white version that's a bit more like
'No more nails'. It's not as 'sticky' but is low (no) odour and
surplus can be wiped off with a damp rag. I wouldn't use it for this
job though.

Forget 'no more nails' .. should have been called 'you still need to
use nails' !

Cut the batten to length and cut some spare lengths of batten to reach
across the shed to (gently) wedge the batten against the wall whilst
it's gluing.

Run a bead of Gripfill up the batten and put into place (you have time
for adjustment but it's neater to be pretty close first go). Press the
batten against the wall to spread the Gripfill and then pop in yer
'props'. 20 mins later you can remove the props to use them for the
next batch.

Stealth batten fixing . ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

  #32   Report Post  
Old February 18th 04, 04:00 PM
T i m
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:21:17 GMT, "MrCheerful"
wrote:



The std 8' square up-and-over door was not much fun (especially in the
winter) so I fabricated a triple traditional door set (out of 50 x 25
x 1.5 mm steel box tube clad in steel sheet) to give a single 1/3 rd
wide 6' 6" high personal door and the other 2/3 rds are a sort of
bi-fold allowing the whole thing to open up if needed.

It all took quite a while to do but makes for a great hidy hole for
'fettling' stuff ;-)

All the best ..

T i m



Sounds nice. Local byelaws may be different but 4 metres is usual for max
height

MrCheerful.

[T] Ah, that makes more sense as if my eaves are 8' 6" ( ~ 2.5m)
already without the roof pitch?

I thought I remember something about flat roofs having a lower limit
than pitched?

All the best ..

T i m

  #33   Report Post  
Old February 19th 04, 02:53 PM
Stephen Gilkes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

I went ahead and bought the Bosch SDS drill. It was reduced to 49.99 in
B&Q.

Absolutely brilliant. Goes through the brick really easily.

Thank you

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
I am loathe to spend any more money than I have to.

Do I really need to avoid fixing the battens to the mortar?


It's up to you. I've never had much success with fixing to mortar. I would
be cautious in attaching anything heavy to it. Perhaps a friend has an SDS
drill you can borrow?

Christian.




  #34   Report Post  
Old February 19th 04, 03:37 PM
PoP
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:53:04 -0000, "Stephen Gilkes"
wrote:

I went ahead and bought the Bosch SDS drill. It was reduced to 49.99 in
B&Q.

Absolutely brilliant. Goes through the brick really easily.


Welcome to the world of very happy SDS drill owners!

PoP

-----

My published email address probably won't work. If
you need to contact me please submit your comments
via the web form at http://www.anyoldtripe.co.uk

I apologise for the additional effort, however the
level of unsolicited email I receive makes it
impossible to advertise my real email address!
  #35   Report Post  
Old February 19th 04, 10:07 PM
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 17 Feb 2004 01:50:42 -0800, (Andrew)
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote in message

. ..

I insulated my single brick garage using Celotex by first making stud
framing in 75x50mm timber. The rectangular sections produced were
bolted to the floor using Rawlbolts and to the joists using carriage
screws. The rear face of the timber was spaced off from the wall by
about 25mm. The Celotex was cut and friction fitted into the frames
and then the joints taped with foil tape that they supply. Finally,
I clad the framing with 18mm ply. Having the timber framing spaced
off from the wall prevents cold bridging from the wall (although it
does allow some with the floor). An alternative would have been to
bolt the timbers directly to the wall but this would have bridged the
insulation - not necessarily that big a deal in a shed, although you
wouldn't do it in a dwelling. The cladding means that I can fit
light to medium weight things anywere on the walls with no hassle and
for heavier things I have very substantial studs at 600mm intervals.


Andy,

I want to do something similar and had wondered why you used the
framing method (found in the archive). Now I understand.

Do I need ventilation for the airgap behind the celotex?


It's probably a good idea. As a general principle, putting wood in a
potentially damp and unventilated space is not a good plan. Because
of the construction of my garage, I was able to incorporate
ventilation quite easily. The overhang of the roof provides quite
generous horizontal soffits under the eaves. The roof uses trussed
frames similar to house construction. I fitted Celotex to the
inner surface of the rafters - I could have fitted some between and
some on top, but it was enough of a PITA to fit the stuff up there
anyway that I didn't mind losing about 50mm of depth up there.
This created a space behind the depth of the rafters to ventilate the
them. I then boarded on top of the joists to form a storage area but
only up to the roof Celotex. The wall framing was arranged so that
there was an air gap at the top meeting the gap behind the roof
Celotex. I then fitted soffit vents into the soffits between each
pair of rafters on both sides of the (apex) roof.
This gives a ventilated space common behind roof and walls.

I did a simple test using smoke matches held against holes cut in the
final wall on a mildly windy day. It was blown in and out, so I
think that the ventilation is effective enough.

An alternative would be to chop an air brick into the wall, I suppose.

For belt and braces, I used pressure treated timber for the framing as
well. A good and cheap source of this is a timber mill that makes
fencing materials, although it can be obtained at a normal merchant.


Is there another airgap between the celotex and the plywood or do you
fit the celotex flush with the outer face of the battens?


No. The Celotex is fitted flush with the front surface of the
framing. I then taped it using the metalised tape, to cover the
joins from sheet to sheet and to the battens. In a few places where
there were small holes and gaps as a result of the garage
construction, I used foam filler.

I then fitted the ply to the framing using drywall screws and painted
it.

The celotex app notes also suggests using it to insulate the floor
with a covering of flooring grade chipboard. Anyone done this?


I debated the idea. The problem for me is that the height from
floor to joists is only about 2400mm and I didn't want to lose any of
that. Also, I will want to move heavy things in and out on occasions
so I don't really want a step at the front.

I had done the heat loss calculations for the building and the floor
was the least of the losses. Now of course it's the most, but not
substantial.


Dig a trench around the garage and insert foam insulation against the garage
walls and then back fill. This will prevent the cold earth acting as a
large heat sink extracting heat from the garage walls and floor. This is
also a very good idea with the main house too.




  #36   Report Post  
Old February 19th 04, 10:13 PM
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 17 Feb 2004 01:50:42 -0800, (Andrew)
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote in message

. ..

I insulated my single brick garage using Celotex by first making stud
framing in 75x50mm timber. The rectangular sections produced were
bolted to the floor using Rawlbolts and to the joists using carriage
screws. The rear face of the timber was spaced off from the wall by
about 25mm. The Celotex was cut and friction fitted into the frames
and then the joints taped with foil tape that they supply. Finally,
I clad the framing with 18mm ply. Having the timber framing spaced
off from the wall prevents cold bridging from the wall (although it
does allow some with the floor).


Rigid foam insulation could have been between the floor and the wood
framing. Rawlbolts can go through the foam and into the wood. A nut and
washer on a rawlbolt thread either side of the framing sole plate will
support the timber.

An alternative would have been to
bolt the timbers directly to the wall but this would have bridged the
insulation - not necessarily that big a deal in a shed, although you
wouldn't do it in a dwelling. The cladding means that I can fit
light to medium weight things anywere on the walls with no hassle and
for heavier things I have very substantial studs at 600mm intervals.


I want to do something similar and had wondered why you used the
framing method (found in the archive). Now I understand.

Do I need ventilation for the airgap behind the celotex?


It's probably a good idea. As a general principle, putting wood in a
potentially damp and unventilated space is not a good plan. Because
of the construction of my garage, I was able to incorporate
ventilation quite easily. The overhang of the roof provides quite
generous horizontal soffits under the eaves. The roof uses trussed
frames similar to house construction. I fitted Celotex to the
inner surface of the rafters - I could have fitted some between and
some on top, but it was enough of a PITA to fit the stuff up there
anyway that I didn't mind losing about 50mm of depth up there.
This created a space behind the depth of the rafters to ventilate the
them. I then boarded on top of the joists to form a storage area but
only up to the roof Celotex. The wall framing was arranged so that
there was an air gap at the top meeting the gap behind the roof
Celotex. I then fitted soffit vents into the soffits between each
pair of rafters on both sides of the (apex) roof.
This gives a ventilated space common behind roof and walls.

I did a simple test using smoke matches held against holes cut in the
final wall on a mildly windy day. It was blown in and out, so I
think that the ventilation is effective enough.

An alternative would be to chop an air brick into the wall, I suppose.

For belt and braces, I used pressure treated timber for the framing as
well. A good and cheap source of this is a timber mill that makes
fencing materials, although it can be obtained at a normal merchant.


Is there another airgap between the celotex and the plywood or do you
fit the celotex flush with the outer face of the battens?


No. The Celotex is fitted flush with the front surface of the
framing. I then taped it using the metalised tape, to cover the
joins from sheet to sheet and to the battens. In a few places where
there were small holes and gaps as a result of the garage
construction, I used foam filler.

I then fitted the ply to the framing using drywall screws and painted
it.



The celotex app notes also suggests using it to insulate the floor
with a covering of flooring grade chipboard. Anyone done this?


I debated the idea. The problem for me is that the height from
floor to joists is only about 2400mm and I didn't want to lose any of
that. Also, I will want to move heavy things in and out on occasions
so I don't really want a step at the front.

I had done the heat loss calculations for the building and the floor
was the least of the losses. Now of course it's the most, but not
substantial.





Andrew


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl



  #38   Report Post  
Old February 19th 04, 10:30 PM
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:07:18 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



Dig a trench around the garage and insert foam insulation against the garage
walls and then back fill.


That would take a hell of a lot of those cans though, wouldn't it?

This will prevent the cold earth acting as a
large heat sink extracting heat from the garage walls and floor.


The heat would still travel downwards though. Plus I'd have to dig
up the drive, and that would not be cost effective.


This is
also a very good idea with the main house too.


Exposing the foundations and putting foam round them..... Hmm.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
  #39   Report Post  
Old February 19th 04, 11:51 PM
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fixing Celotex to walls


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:07:18 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



Dig a trench around the garage and insert foam insulation against the

garage
walls and then back fill.


That would take a hell of a lot of those cans though, wouldn't it?

This will prevent the cold earth acting as a
large heat sink extracting heat from the garage walls and floor.


The heat would still travel downwards though.


In winter the frost line is about 2 for deep. The foundation walls will be
deeper than that. The earth directly beneath the garage will be warmer than
earth at the surface.

This is
also a very good idea with the main house too.


Exposing the foundations and putting foam round them..... Hmm.


Common in the USA.

In Sweden and the USA what is becoming common, is to have an "umbrella" of
foam insulation around the house, starting just below the surface at the
walls and slanting away from the house up to 30 foot away. Rain runs off
this and away from the house protecting the foundations, and the earth under
the umbrella will be cool in summer and warm in winter. If you have a
basement the benefits are even greater. All you need is to rent a Bobcat.





Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing recessed lighting in a Celotex insulated flat roof SteveRoche UK diy 6 January 9th 05 03:58 PM
Wallpapering external walls? James W UK diy 2 January 29th 04 03:09 AM
Removing paint from walls? Alan Gabriel UK diy 5 January 19th 04 06:36 PM
"ash" walls / getting a decent fixing Colin Wilson UK diy 3 October 23rd 03 03:00 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017