Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs around the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to stick to
hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration for me
is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat 'malformed' right hand
(Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like this are
increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority right-handed folk. My right
hand has less strength than my left and sometimes it is awkward for me to
'hold a handle and press a button' with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs that are
better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst us?

FWIW I was thinking of the Evolution Rage saw, which I have seen get good press
here.

Thanks
J^n

"jkn" wrote in message
...
Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs around
the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to stick
to
hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration
for me
is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat 'malformed' right
hand
(Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

Ah, like Jeremy Beadle had.

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like this
are
increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority right-handed folk. My
right
hand has less strength than my left and sometimes it is awkward for me to
'hold a handle and press a button' with it at the same time - stuff like
that.

I'd not thought of a circular saw or other power tools as being "handed",
but I can see the problem. I wonder whether holding a circular saw and
guiding it along a marked line is something that *normally* can be done with
the "wrong" hand. The fact that your "wrong" hand is weakened tips the
balance even more strongly in favour of you having to use your left hand.

I wonder whethe Poland Syndrome and handedness go [sorry for this
unintentional pun] hand-in-hand: is the fact that your left side is your
dominant side a consequence of your right hand not developing?

It's a shame that the saw is isn't designed so the handle and guide can be
fitted on the opposite side. Given that left-handed people are a sizeable
minority, I wonder if any tool manufacturers sell replacement handles and
guides that are the opposite way round.


Handedness is an interesting thing. I had lunch with a woman who ate with
her fork in her right hand and her knife in the left. I was puzzled because
I'd earlier seen her writing with her right hand. I asked her and she looked
bewildered: she was evidently so used to eating with her fork in her right
hand for any food that didn't require a knife that she hadn't learned to eat
with fork in left and knife in right, and instinctively used her knife (on
the rarer occasions) in the opposite hand to the one she habitually used her
fork in.

My mum is left handed but was taught to use her fork in the left hand as a
right-hander would do because it would not stand out as much: at 82, she's
old enough to have had left-handedness stigmatised at school, though not to
the extent that she holds a pen in her left hand but still sloping to the
right as a right-hander would do; I've seen a lot of people contorting their
left hand so as to get the pen to slope to the right, usually involving
putting the hand *above* the line of writing rather than to the left of it.
Instead, Mum holds her pen in an exact mirror image of the way I would.

NY formulated the question :
Handedness is an interesting thing. I had lunch with a woman who ate with her
fork in her right hand and her knife in the left. I was puzzled because I'd
earlier seen her writing with her right hand. I asked her and she looked
bewildered: she was evidently so used to eating with her fork in her right
hand for any food that didn't require a knife that she hadn't learned to eat
with fork in left and knife in right, and instinctively used her knife (on
the rarer occasions) in the opposite hand to the one she habitually used her
fork in.

Interesting, very!

I was born a sinister, forced at school to use my right hand to write
with by tying my left behind my back. At 71 it now feels very odd to
try to even try write with my left, but most other things I can happily
do with either hand. I am left permanently confused by left and right,
because I don't have a natural main hand. I have to think for a while
before laying out knives and forks at the table. I use most tools with
which ever hand suits the easiest access, or in repetitive jobs often
just change hands to rest one or the other. Picking up a handed item
like a circular saw, I would need to test it with both hands, to see
which hand worked best. I get confused when shaking hands with someone
as to which hand to offer and my hand writing has always been terrible.
I can though, beat most people with hunt and peck on the keyboard.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
NY formulated the question :
Handedness is an interesting thing. I had lunch with a woman who ate
with her fork in her right hand and her knife in the left. I was
puzzled because I'd earlier seen her writing with her right hand. I
asked her and she looked bewildered: she was evidently so used to
eating with her fork in her right hand for any food that didn't
require a knife that she hadn't learned to eat with fork in left and
knife in right, and instinctively used her knife (on the rarer
occasions) in the opposite hand to the one she habitually used her
fork in.

Interesting, very!

I was born a sinister, forced at school to use my right hand to write
with by tying my left behind my back. At 71 it now feels very odd to try
to even try write with my left, but most other things I can happily do
with either hand. I am left permanently confused by left and right,
because I don't have a natural main hand. I have to think for a while
before laying out knives and forks at the table. I use most tools with
which ever hand suits the easiest access, or in repetitive jobs often
just change hands to rest one or the other. Picking up a handed item
like a circular saw, I would need to test it with both hands, to see
which hand worked best. I get confused when shaking hands with someone
as to which hand to offer and my hand writing has always been terrible.
I can though, beat most people with hunt and peck on the keyboard.

Our lad is left-handed. No stigma nowadays, of course, but it has taken
a long time to get him to stop getting ink all over his hand as it moves
across what he's just written :-)

In article ,
jkn wrote:
Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs around the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to stick to
hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration for me
is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat 'malformed' right hand
(Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like this are
increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority right-handed folk. My right
hand has less strength than my left and sometimes it is awkward for me to
'hold a handle and press a button' with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs that are
better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst us?


Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw? Obviously can't be used for
cutting large sheets of stuff, etc, but since I've had mine hardly ever
get out my hand held one.

And they ain't really handed - although I'd not say my hand held one is
either.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
NY formulated the question :
Handedness is an interesting thing. I had lunch with a woman who ate with
her fork in her right hand and her knife in the left. I was puzzled
because I'd earlier seen her writing with her right hand. I asked her and
she looked bewildered: she was evidently so used to eating with her fork
in her right hand for any food that didn't require a knife that she
hadn't learned to eat with fork in left and knife in right, and
instinctively used her knife (on the rarer occasions) in the opposite
hand to the one she habitually used her fork in.

Interesting, very!

I was born a sinister, forced at school to use my right hand to write with
by tying my left behind my back. At 71 it now feels very odd to try to
even try write with my left, but most other things I can happily do with
either hand. I am left permanently confused by left and right, because I
don't have a natural main hand. I have to think for a while before laying
out knives and forks at the table. I use most tools with which ever hand
suits the easiest access, or in repetitive jobs often just change hands to
rest one or the other. Picking up a handed item like a circular saw, I
would need to test it with both hands, to see which hand worked best. I
get confused when shaking hands with someone as to which hand to offer and
my hand writing has always been terrible. I can though, beat most people
with hunt and peck on the keyboard.

It was shameful that schools etc used to try to force people to write with
their wrong hand in order to make them conform. If left-handedness was
exceptionally rare, it would be more understandable (though still
unforgiveable), but left-handers are about 10% of the population according
to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness.

According to that article, I'm cross-dominant: I am very strongly
right-handed for writing [1]; ambidextrous for most tasks if they are
unskilled [2]; and slightly left-handed for things like pouring from a
kettle or jug, probably because it allows me to use my right hand at the
same time for the more precise action of stirring what I'm pouring.

I've only met one truly ambidextrous person: Bertie, my maths teacher at
middle school, who revealed, in a moment of daftness on the all-the-sevens
day (7/7/1977), that he could write on the blackboard equally well, forwards
or mirror-image, with either hand. He simultaneously wrote the left half of
each line of a poem on the left blackboard and the right half (the rest of
each line) on the right. He could also write boustrophedon ("as the ox
ploughs" - a word he taught us), in other words, with the letters facing
forwards but written from right to left, like a dot-matrix, daisy-wheel or
inkjet printer prints on alternate head-passes. I thought of Bertie the
first time I saw a printer printing like that a few years later :-)

It's interesting that the article says "Men are somewhat more likely to
express a strongly dominant left hand than women". I wonder if that's
because a greater proportion of men than women are actually born
left-handed, or because they are more likely to resist attempts to change
them to be right-handed, because of their (stereotypically) "stronger"
personality?

Surprisingly, given that it is a precision action, I can use a computer
mouse almost as well with my left hand as my right hand, with one proviso:
the buttons *must* be the same way round and not mirror-imaged. I cannot use
a mouse in either hand if the left button is set to perform a right-click
action and vice-versa, as many left-handers seem to prefer. I'm different, I
instinctively use my middle finger on the left button and forefinger on the
right button if I hold the mouse in my left hand, so the "left means
left-click" association is stronger than the "forefinger means left-click"
mirror-image association ;-)


[1] I've tried writing with my left hand and can barely hold the pen, never
mind manage to form babyish letters.

[2] When changing hands to give one hand a rest while performing a
repetitive unskilled action.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw?

Or a tracksaw? see Peter Millard's youtube channel for his talk through
of the festool one(s)

On 20/06/2018 13:45, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw?

I have one, and it's fantastic.


Or a tracksaw?Â* see Peter Millard's youtube channel for his talk through
of the festool one(s)


There's a very cheap track saw over at Aldididl right now.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/par...9-lidl-2958781

Quite tempted!

On 20/06/2018 13:50, GB wrote:
On 20/06/2018 13:45, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw?

I have one, and it's fantastic.

Me too, but not for large sheets (which is what I use a circular saw for
a lot, together with a sawboard of course.


Or a tracksaw?Â* see Peter Millard's youtube channel for his talk
through of the festool one(s)


There's a very cheap track saw over at Aldididl right now.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/par...9-lidl-2958781


Quite tempted!

FWIW I think the handedness will still be a problem, especially if you
have a weaker right hand (rather than just a less dextrous one). The
point is, the blade is well offset to the right side of the baseplate,
and the motors always hang off to the left so as not to obstruct your
view of the cut.

I'm firmly right handed (my father was somewhat ambidextrous). But I
took up eating "left handed" when I was very small, this just seemed the
sensible way to me. It is also how Americans eat (but I did not know
that at the time).


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"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
news
Our lad is left-handed. No stigma nowadays, of course, but it has taken a
long time to get him to stop getting ink all over his hand as it moves
across what he's just written :-)

That was more of a problem when people wrote with slow-drying fountain-pen
ink. Nowadays with quick-drying Biro ink, it's *less* of a problem, most of
the time. I can understand why in fountain pen days, left-handers used to
put their hand above the line of writing so the left side of the hand and
the little finger, which take the weight of the hand as you write, didn't
smear the ink.

I went to school with one girl who was left-handed and gripped the pen
between the first and last joints of her forefinger and middle finger
https://s22.postimg.cc/kgk5h5o35/20180620_135624.jpg, without using her
thumb, rather than between thumb and middle finger with forefinger on top
https://s22.postimg.cc/4v2tx7rkh/20180620_135659.jpg, as most people do.
That looked a *lot* more weird than the fact she was writing with her left
hand. Mind you, she took all the weight of her hand on the end of her little
finger, which allowed her to keep the base of her hand clear of the paper to
avoid it smearing the ink.

I've also seen someone holding their pen with only the thumb and forefinger
touching it and the middle finger tucked back
https://s22.postimg.cc/wwgvb59s1/20180620_140838.jpg which looks equally
uncomfortable.

But each to their own - whatever people find easiest.

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 20/06/2018 13:45, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw?

I have one, and it's fantastic.


Or a tracksaw? see Peter Millard's youtube channel for his talk through
of the festool one(s)


There's a very cheap track saw over at Aldididl right now.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/par...9-lidl-2958781

Quite tempted!

Quite. I've got a strong sense of self preservation and power tools in a
stand of some sort don't scare me as much as hand held ones. Especially
angle grinders. ;-)

--
*Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
But I took up eating "left handed" when I was very small, this just seemed
the sensible way to me. It is also how Americans eat (but I did not know
that at the time).

Yes, the way that we Brits eat, with a spoon in the right hand (for soup or
a dessert) but a fork in the left hand (for main course) is slightly odd,
when you think about it, given than both "tools" do a very similar job.

I gather that some Americans cut each mouthful with the knife in their right
hand, then put down their knife and use the fork in their right hand to
transfer that mouthful to their mouth, before picking up the knife for the
next mouthful. Sounds incredibly slow and laborious but was actually
designed to force people not to eat too quickly :-) Not sure I believe that
story: most Americans rarely seem to use a knife and cut their food with the
blunt edge of their fork in their right hand.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:43:22 +0100, NY wrote:

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
[quoted text muted]

It was shameful that schools etc used to try to force people to write
with their wrong hand in order to make them conform. If left-handedness
was exceptionally rare, it would be more understandable (though still
unforgiveable), but left-handers are about 10% of the population
according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness.

However, as the OP is finding, the world is designed for the 90%.

So there's some sense in trying to ensure lefties can at least manage if
not excel with their right hand.

Agreed. Righties are still in the considerable majority. I get the
impression that more left-handers can't use their right hands for even
non-precision tasks, than right-handers can use their left hand - at a
pinch, as a "cope" rather than "excel" fall-back strategy. But then I'm
probably *slightly* more ambidextrous than many people, so I'm biassed.

You're ****ed if you are a left handed soldier, btw. ISTR Clarkson
messing around with a British SLR and pointing out that the fixed
cartridge ejection would make it impossible to fire left-handed.

Is he left-handed? I've never noticed.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:45:23 +0100, NY wrote:

I'd not thought of a circular saw or other power tools as being
"handed",

It's quite surprising when you look at the subtleties.

Not power tools, but steak knives and playing cards (not Waddingtons) are
two odd examples of handedness.

I'll have a look next time I have steak in a restaurant (if I'm given a
proper steak knife) and see if it's handed. Most knives, forks and spoons
look symmetrical to me: maybe some steak knives are an exception and the
handle is thicker on one side of the blade than the other or the blade is
slightly curved.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:12:56 +0100, NY wrote:

But each to their own - whatever people find easiest.

We must be a very odd family...we are all right handed but...

SWMBO always uses fork in right hand, knife in left. So does one of our
sons.

SWMBO and I are both rodentially ambidextrous. We both have the mouse
buttons mirror imaged.

I hold a pen between thumb and forefinger, with all finger joints bent. I
get lots of comments but that's how I've always done it.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

NY wrote:
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
news
Our lad is left-handed.* No stigma nowadays, of course, but it has
taken a
long time to get him to stop getting ink all over his hand as it moves
across what he's just written :-)

That was more of a problem when people wrote with slow-drying fountain-pen

Unusually (I suspect), our lad's school only allows fountain pens. The
old-fashioned part of me quite likes the idea, but it makes it much
harder for him to write without making a mess.

ink. Nowadays with quick-drying Biro ink, it's *less* of a problem, most of
the time. I can understand why in fountain pen days, left-handers used to
put their hand above the line of writing so the left side of the hand and
the little finger, which take the weight of the hand as you write, didn't
smear the ink.

I went to school with one girl who was left-handed and gripped the pen
between the first and last joints of her forefinger and middle finger
https://s22.postimg.cc/kgk5h5o35/20180620_135624.jpg, without using her
thumb, rather than between thumb and middle finger with forefinger on top
https://s22.postimg.cc/4v2tx7rkh/20180620_135659.jpg, as most people do.
That looked a *lot* more weird than the fact she was writing with her left
hand. Mind you, she took all the weight of her hand on the end of her
little
finger, which allowed her to keep the base of her hand clear of the
paper to
avoid it smearing the ink.

I've also seen someone holding their pen with only the thumb and
forefinger touching it and the middle finger tucked back
https://s22.postimg.cc/wwgvb59s1/20180620_140838.jpg which looks equally
uncomfortable.

But each to their own - whatever people find easiest.

On 20/06/2018 12:17, jkn wrote:
Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs around the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to stick to
hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration for me
is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat 'malformed' right hand
(Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like this are
increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority right-handed folk. My right
hand has less strength than my left and sometimes it is awkward for me to
'hold a handle and press a button' with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs that are
better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst us?

FWIW I was thinking of the Evolution Rage saw, which I have seen get good press
here.

Circular saws are not especially "handed" as such since the handles are
designed to work with either hand.

They have to chose which side the blade is on with respect to the body,
Oddly most cordless circular saws opt for the other orientation...


--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
NY wrote:
You're ****ed if you are a left handed soldier, btw. ISTR Clarkson
messing around with a British SLR and pointing out that the fixed
cartridge ejection would make it impossible to fire left-handed.

Is he left-handed? I've never noticed.

If you've ever seen him attempt any practical task involving tools, cack
handed is more like it. But then he is a journalist. Like so many can
write about many things, but not actually do them.

--
*Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
I don't know. But there was a gun on the bonnet of a car (it may have
been the first series of Grand Tour, where they have to "rescue"
someone).

Crikey. First person I've ever heard admit to watching Grand Tour.

--
*Constipated People Don't Give A Crap*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/06/2018 13:08, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
NY formulated the question :
Handedness is an interesting thing. I had lunch with a woman who ate
with her fork in her right hand and her knife in the left. I was
puzzled because I'd earlier seen her writing with her right hand. I
asked her and she looked bewildered: she was evidently so used to
eating with her fork in her right hand for any food that didn't
require a knife that she hadn't learned to eat with fork in left and
knife in right, and instinctively used her knife (on the rarer
occasions) in the opposite hand to the one she habitually used her
fork in.

Interesting, very!

I was born a sinister, forced at school to use my right hand to write
with by tying my left behind my back. At 71 it now feels very odd to try
to even try write with my left, but most other things I can happily do
with either hand. I am left permanently confused by left and right,
because I don't have a natural main hand. I have to think for a while
before laying out knives and forks at the table. I use most tools with
which ever hand suits the easiest access, or in repetitive jobs often
just change hands to rest one or the other. Picking up a handed item
like a circular saw, I would need to test it with both hands, to see
which hand worked best. I get confused when shaking hands with someone
as to which hand to offer and my hand writing has always been terrible.
I can though, beat most people with hunt and peck on the keyboard.

I resemble that comment...

First school forced me to write with the "right" hand... So that is the
way I still do it (badly) today. However it still feels more natural to
eat left handed. Tools etc I can generally use both ways even though I
am marginally more right handed now.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

Bob Eager expressed precisely :
I hold a pen between thumb and forefinger, with all finger joints bent. I
get lots of comments but that's how I've always done it.

It don't know what is the correct way, but I would hold one at the tip,
between first, second finger and thumb, with the top resting in the
crook of hand/thumb. I still have a sort of groove below the tip joint
of my second finger from the pen pressure.

I would sometimes swap to the alternative of - pen upper section
resting in the crook of first and second finger, to take the pressure
off that groove.

Yes, in my early years I was expected to use a pen and ink well at
school, once I had progresses from pencils. Only in my teens did I
progress to a Biro.

In article , news0007
@eager.cx says...

I hold a pen between thumb and forefinger, with all finger joints bent. I
get lots of comments but that's how I've always done it.

Same here. I'm always fascinated by the way most folk younger
than me grasp a pen ...

--

Terry

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Terry Casey formulated on Wednesday :
Same here. I'm always fascinated by the way most folk younger
than me grasp a pen ...

They don't now do anything like as much hand writing as we had to do at
school, the world runs on keyboard entries now. From my point of view,
I am much happier on a keyboard, than with a pen - I no longer get the
cramps and it is much more legible lol .

On 20/06/2018 12:17, jkn wrote:
Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs around the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to stick to
hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration for me
is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat 'malformed' right hand
(Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like this are
increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority right-handed folk. My right
hand has less strength than my left and sometimes it is awkward for me to
'hold a handle and press a button' with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs that are
better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst us?

Odd, they seem to do a number of left-handed cordless saws, but there is
a lack of corded ones.

I know they are available, because my dad has one - some no-name, cheapo
that he bought when his old one wasn't available (I had it!) No problem
for him as he is ambidextrous - in fact he was left handed, but forced
to use his right.

SteveW

On 20/06/2018 14:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
On 20/06/2018 13:45, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw?

I have one, and it's fantastic.


Or a tracksaw? see Peter Millard's youtube channel for his talk through
of the festool one(s)


There's a very cheap track saw over at Aldididl right now.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/par...9-lidl-2958781

Quite tempted!

Quite. I've got a strong sense of self preservation and power tools in a
stand of some sort don't scare me as much as hand held ones. Especially
angle grinders. ;-)

Odd really, when in many cases the fixed power tool can be more
dangerous as it leave both hands free to move close to the blade. A
hand-held circular saw need at least one hand on the main handle safely
out of the way. (and probably two if its a bigger saw)


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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On Wednesday, 20 June 2018 12:17:58 UTC+1, jkn wrote:
Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs around the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to stick to
hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration for me
is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat 'malformed' right hand
(Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like this are
increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority right-handed folk. My right
hand has less strength than my left and sometimes it is awkward for me to
'hold a handle and press a button' with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs that are
better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst us?

FWIW I was thinking of the Evolution Rage saw, which I have seen get good press
here.

Thanks
J^n

Left handers (I am one) have learned to manage in the mostly RH world.

Jethro_uk wrote on 20/06/2018 :
How about mouse/trackpads ?

I use those right handed.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:29:47 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Terry Casey formulated on Wednesday :
Same here. I'm always fascinated by the way most folk younger than me
grasp a pen ...

They don't now do anything like as much hand writing as we had to do at
school, the world runs on keyboard entries now. From my point of view, I
am much happier on a keyboard, than with a pen - I no longer get the
cramps and it is much more legible lol .

How about mouse/trackpads ?

sudden thought: I wonder if Android/iOS can be set up for lefties ?
Currently it seems to be set up for holding the phone in the left hand,
and using the right to tap.

Sounds irrelevant, until you realise that cover-cases are handed too ...

When I use a cover-case (eg on my wife's phone) I fold the cover back under
the phone and then hold the phone in my left hand while using my right index
finger (not my thumb!!!!!!!!!) to select icons or type at the on-screen
keyboard. I'd expect a leftie to do exactly the same, though probably with
opposite hands.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Odd really, when in many cases the fixed power tool can be more
dangerous as it leave both hands free to move close to the blade. A
hand-held circular saw need at least one hand on the main handle safely
out of the way. (and probably two if its a bigger saw)

When I'm cutting things on my sliding saw, they are clamped down. Only one
hand needed to operate it - and that's on the handle, well away from the
blade.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"harry" wrote in message
...
Left handers (I am one) have learned to manage in the mostly RH world.

Though they have a good moan about it. I was with someone the other day and
we were walking up to a front door to ring the bell. Now doorbells are
usually on the opposite side to hinges, and hinges can be on either side. I
tend to use whichever hand is closer to ring the bell, depending on which
side of the frame the bell is. This guy, who was left handed, had a good
moan because the doorbell was on the right-hand side and he'd have to use
his left hand across his body. WTF didn't he use his right hand: that's not
a precision action that requires the dominant hand.

Sometimes you adapt to suit the environment. I change gear with my left hand
because that's the side that the gear lever is in a RHD car. It may be
easier to use my right hand (in an LHD car, obviously!) but that doesn't
mean I complain. I've never driven a manual LHD car, so I don't know if it's
any easier for a rightie using their left hand than in an RHD car to use
their left. It wasn't exactly a problem using an automatic selector with my
right hand, though in an automatic you move that much less frequently: when
setting off, reversing, parking - and I also shift into neutral when I stop
in traffic so I can take my foot off the footbrake (*).

Writing is a problem for lefties - it's easier to smudge the ink. A shaped,
asymmetric mouse may feel uncomfortable in the left hand if it's been
designed for the right. When I was required to use a leftie's mouse, it was
easier to use my left hand than to re-route the cable so it was on my right,
though I did temporarily set it to left button = left-click - and write
myself a big note to remind me to set it back afterwards! It's interesting
which actions you instinctively expect to be mirror-imaged and which not: it
never occurs to me to left-click with my right (index) finger when mousing
with my left hand, but the first time I drove an LHD car I instinctively
expected the indicator and wiper stalks to be mirrored on an LHD car - weird
distinction in my brain ;-)


(*) My pet hate, which I would penalise with slow strangulation, is people
who sit in traffic with their brake lights glaring in your face (especially
at night when they are much brighter than the dark surroundings) because
they can't be bothered to apply the handbrake and go into neutral. Unless I
anticipate being stopped for less than five seconds, I apply the handbrake
and come off the footbrake, and shift into neutral.

On 20/06/2018 15:18, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:49:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 20/06/2018 12:17, jkn wrote:
Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs
around the
place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have tended to
stick to hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other consideration
for me is that I am left handed, and have a small and somewhat
'malformed' right hand (Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is interested).

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like
this are increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority
right-handed folk. My right hand has less strength than my left and
sometimes it is awkward for me to 'hold a handle and press a button'
with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs
that are better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst us?

FWIW I was thinking of the Evolution Rage saw, which I have seen get
good press here.

Circular saws are not especially "handed" as such since the handles are
designed to work with either hand.

They have to chose which side the blade is on with respect to the body,
Oddly most cordless circular saws opt for the other orientation...

Switches ? Safety catches ?

Not usually a problem on modern saws, but yup sometimes the trigger
release was single sided on older saws.

All my current ones have a control you can nudge from either side.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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In article ,
says...

Terry Casey formulated on Wednesday :
Same here. I'm always fascinated by the way most folk younger
than me grasp a pen ...

They don't now do anything like as much hand writing as we had to do at
school, the world runs on keyboard entries now. From my point of view,
I am much happier on a keyboard, than with a pen - I no longer get the
cramps and it is much more legible lol .

These days, my handwriting is terrible!

Lack of practice, I suppose.

I've tracked down my fountain pen for use when I have to fill
in anything important - usually anything I don't have to read
myself!

But then, I've always liked the control that a fountain pen
gives you ...

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 04:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
jkn wrote:

Hi All
I am thinking of getting a circular saw (185mm) for a few jobs
around the place. I am plenty 'handy' enough but for woodworking have
tended to stick to hand tools for most of the things I need to do.

Apart from the fact that they are scary things, one other
consideration for me is that I am left handed, and have a small and
somewhat 'malformed' right hand (Poland's Syndrome, if anyone is
interested).

There was a lad at school with that - I remember he played the trumpet
rather well.

This normally causes me no problems, but I am aware that tools like
this are increasingly ergonomically designed for the majority
right-handed folk. My right hand has less strength than my left and
sometimes it is awkward for me to 'hold a handle and press a button'
with it at the same time - stuff like that.

Are there any left-handers here who can offer opinions about designs
that are better suited (or less ill-suited) to the sinister amongst
us?

Most of what i use a circular saw for (ripping 8x4 sheets of ply etc.
or cutting rebates) could be better done with a bench saw. A mitre saw
is really useful for crosscutting e.g. 4x2, a sliding mitre saw handles
wider stuff too. Add a decent jigsaw and you probably don't need a
circular saw. Or there's always the radial arm saw, which will do most
things if you have the space for it.

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
These days, my handwriting is terrible!

Lack of practice, I suppose.

I've tracked down my fountain pen for use when I have to fill
in anything important - usually anything I don't have to read
myself!

But then, I've always liked the control that a fountain pen
gives you ...

My handwriting is appalling. It was never very good - one of my first school
reports referred to the quality of my handwriting which was atrocious,
except that my parents and I had great difficult reading what the English
teacher had written on my report :-)

After a lot of practice, I got my writing reasonably OK, but at the expense
of being slow: in exams under time pressures it reverted to atrocious.

Since I've used a computer for most of what I write - I rarely write letters
to anyone when emails are easier and quicker to send and receive - my
writing has deteriorated again, so I have to take great care to slow down
when filling in a paper form or addressing an envelope.


I've still got my old cartridge pen. I found true fountain pens, filled from
a bottle of Quink, just too messy, though the smell of that ink takes me
straight back to the Lower Fourth at school, sitting in one of those desks
which had the seat joined onto the desk, and could be slid across the floor
on runners (*). But a cartridge is a good compromise. I prefer an ink pen to
a biro. Water-based ink pens (Pentel, Rollerball etc) are easier because the
ball moves more freely over the page than for a biro.

(*) One of the "masters" (teachers) at school had been a boy there 15 years
earlier and he had a foot in both camps when it came to allegiance, so he
told us how "when I were a lad" they used to all slide their desks-and-seats
towards the front, in unison, whenever the teacher's back was turned. They
did it so gradually that like the legendary "boiling frogs" experiment, the
master didn't notice what was happening, The goal was to have the master
penned into a corner by the end of the lesson :-)

On 20 Jun 2018 13:48:03 GMT
Bob Eager wrote:

I hold a pen between thumb and forefinger, with all finger joints
bent. I get lots of comments but that's how I've always done it.

Perhaps, like me, you taught yourself to write before anyone thought to
show you the "proper" way to hold a pen?

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:02 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Our lad is left-handed. No stigma nowadays, of course, but it has
taken a long time to get him to stop getting ink all over his hand as
it moves across what he's just written :-)

I always thought that left-handers should write from right to left i.e.
mirror writing, but I'm not aware of anyone who's actually learned to
do it that way.

NY was thinking very hard :
(*) One of the "masters" (teachers) at school had been a boy there 15 years
earlier and he had a foot in both camps when it came to allegiance, so he
told us how "when I were a lad" they used to all slide their desks-and-seats
towards the front, in unison, whenever the teacher's back was turned. They
did it so gradually that like the legendary "boiling frogs" experiment, the
master didn't notice what was happening, The goal was to have the master
penned into a corner by the end of the lesson :-)

:')

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:57:06 +0100
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
I don't know. But there was a gun on the bonnet of a car (it may
have been the first series of Grand Tour, where they have to
"rescue" someone).

Crikey. First person I've ever heard admit to watching Grand Tour.

I downloaded the first episode, but never got around to watching it.
I did sit through a whole episode of new Top Gear just in case it
wasn't quite as terrible as it first seemed, but sadly it was.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 20/06/2018 13:50, GB wrote:
On 20/06/2018 13:45, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you considered a sliding mitre bench saw?

I have one, and it's fantastic.

Me too, but not for large sheets (which is what I use a circular saw for a
lot, together with a sawboard of course.


Or a tracksaw? see Peter Millard's youtube channel for his talk through
of the festool one(s)


There's a very cheap track saw over at Aldididl right now.

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/par...9-lidl-2958781
Quite tempted!

FWIW I think the handedness will still be a problem, especially if you
have a weaker right hand (rather than just a less dextrous one). The point
is, the blade is well offset to the right side of the baseplate, and the
motors always hang off to the left so as not to obstruct your view of the
cut.

I'm firmly right handed (my father was somewhat ambidextrous). But I took
up eating "left handed" when I was very small, this just seemed the
sensible way to me. It is also how Americans eat

No its not.

(but I did not know that at the time).

"NY" wrote in message
...
"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
But I took up eating "left handed" when I was very small, this just
seemed the sensible way to me. It is also how Americans eat (but I did
not know that at the time).

Yes, the way that we Brits eat, with a spoon in the right hand (for soup
or a dessert) but a fork in the left hand (for main course) is slightly
odd, when you think about it, given than both "tools" do a very similar
job.

I gather that some Americans cut each mouthful with the knife in their
right hand, then put down their knife and use the fork in their right hand
to transfer that mouthful to their mouth, before picking up the knife for
the next mouthful. Sounds incredibly slow and laborious but was actually
designed to force people not to eat too quickly :-) Not sure I believe
that story: most Americans rarely seem to use a knife and cut their food
with the blunt edge of their fork in their right hand.

Thats not going to work with steak and chops etc.