Booting (or not) a 386
 

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go,
the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no video
signal using the original monitor.

Tried with a more modern flat screen, which responded, flashed 'no
signal' and went to sleep.

It could be a fault, but could equally be something I've forgotten. Any
thoughts? I'm using the original mouse and KB, but the VGA lead is not
the original, although that should not make a difference.

--
Graeme

Booting (or not) a 386
 

In message , Graeme
writes

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go,
the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no video
signal using the original monitor.

Ignore that. Repeated CTL-ALT-DEL seems to have fixed the signal
problem, BUT error message tells me the internal battery (Real time
Clock) is discharged. It seems that the BIOS defaults to boot from
drive A (the floppy), but I can change that to C, but, because the
battery is flat, the change is lost when rebooting, and it again tries
to boot from A. No, I can't find the original boot disc, although it
must be here somewhere.

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

--
Graeme

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:46:37 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

Its probably beyond its life so try sticking a new battery in. AIr Elonex
were easy ones to get into and play with.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

In message , Mark
Allread writes

Its probably beyond its life so try sticking a new battery in. AIr Elonex
were easy ones to get into and play with.

Oh good; thank you. I had visions of something soldered to the board.

Have now found a boot disk, but that does not help because, with battery
flat, BIOS has no record of either hard or floppy drives. I can set,
but the settings are lost on reboot. Bugger.

--
Graeme

Booting (or not) a 386
 

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

Some are, some aren't. But are usually easy to get to and find out by the
part number.

--
*If you think this van is dirty, you should try having sex with the driver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 12:16:22 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message , Mark
Allread writes

Its probably beyond its life so try sticking a new battery in. AIr
Elonex were easy ones to get into and play with.

Oh good; thank you. I had visions of something soldered to the board.

There's a chance that may be the case but I don't recall Elonex being
that stupid.

Have now found a boot disk, but that does not help because, with battery
flat, BIOS has no record of either hard or floppy drives. I can set,
but the settings are lost on reboot. Bugger.

If the battery is easily swapped then that is the first step. BIOS can
follow.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

Graeme wrote:

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

They were mostly non-rechargable button cells but I did have one that
had a rechargeable battery. Not usually too difficult to replace,
just take a look inside at the motherboard and it should be pretty
obvious.

--
Chris Green
·

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:46:37 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had. Just get a new cell for it.




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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28/05/2018 11:46, Graeme wrote:
In message , Graeme
writes

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go,
the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no video
signal using the original monitor.

Ignore that.Â* Repeated CTL-ALT-DEL seems to have fixed the signal
problem, BUT error message tells me the internal battery (Real time
Clock) is discharged.Â* It seems that the BIOS defaults to boot from
drive A (the floppy), but I can change that to C, but, because the
battery is flat, the change is lost when rebooting, and it again tries
to boot from A.Â* No, I can't find the original boot disc, although it
must be here somewhere.

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable?Â* PC has probably not been booted for 20 years.

On a good day you might get enough leakage to the backup battery allow
you to reboot without having to re-enter the CMOS details. I had a
partable go that way and on the second failed reboot it would start.

If you actually want to use it swapping the 2032 cell or whatever it
happens to be for a fresh one will get you another decade.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 12:11:12 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:46:37 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had. Just get a new cell for it.

In something 20 years old it could well be a 3.6V Nicad / rechargeable
that would be soldered onto the Mobo.

http://pc-restorer.com/replacing-cmo...es-in-old-pcs/

If it is such and you didn't want to remove the board to replace it,
you could snip the leads off and just connect a 'remote'
(rechargeable) battery to the remaining legs.

However, assuming it is a rechargeable and isn't NFG, it *might*
recover enough to hold the CMOS values, at least over a reboot. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Booting (or not) a 386
 

Cursitor Doom wrote:

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had.

Can't think of any on desktop mothboards, but certainly some laptops
have rechargable CMOS batteries.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28/05/18 11:46, Graeme wrote:
In message , Graeme
writes

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go,
the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no video
signal using the original monitor.

Ignore that.Â* Repeated CTL-ALT-DEL seems to have fixed the signal
problem, BUT error message tells me the internal battery (Real time
Clock) is discharged.Â* It seems that the BIOS defaults to boot from
drive A (the floppy), but I can change that to C, but, because the
battery is flat, the change is lost when rebooting, and it again tries
to boot from A.Â* No, I can't find the original boot disc, although it
must be here somewhere.

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable?Â* PC has probably not been booted for 20 years.

Just last week I decommissioned an Elonex PC 425x. If your 386 has been
manufactured in a similar way then there will be a fairly bulky box
which has been plugged into a DiL socket on the main board. This
contains the BIOS chip and RTC battery potted in resin.

There's no way to replace the battery in this package but other people
have had success from piggy-backing a two-AA battery pack across the
relevant pins.

For what its worth, I didn't attempt to do any of this but I reclaimed
all the data by taking out the hard drive, changing the jumper-pins on
it from "Master" to "Slave" and plugging it into another computer with
IDE drives and configuring it as drive "D". Then I copied all the stuff
across from one to the other. The other computer being marginally more
modern with USB ports and the like, I then transferred everything to a
memory stick. (It didn't have to be a very big memory stick!)

Hope this helps
Nick

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 14:04:05 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 14:06:11 +0100, T i m wrote:

In something 20 years old it could well be a 3.6V Nicad / rechargeable
that would be soldered onto the Mobo.

Some designs had the battery integral to the RTC chip.

Dallas DS12887 as I recall.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28/05/18 15:23, Nick Odell wrote:
On 28/05/18 11:46, Graeme wrote:
In message , Graeme
writes

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go,
the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no
video signal using the original monitor.

Ignore that.Â* Repeated CTL-ALT-DEL seems to have fixed the signal
problem, BUT error message tells me the internal battery (Real time
Clock) is discharged.Â* It seems that the BIOS defaults to boot from
drive A (the floppy), but I can change that to C, but, because the
battery is flat, the change is lost when rebooting, and it again tries
to boot from A.Â* No, I can't find the original boot disc, although it
must be here somewhere.

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery
charge, or is it not rechargeable?Â* PC has probably not been booted
for 20 years.

Just last week I decommissioned an Elonex PC 425x. If your 386 has been
manufactured in a similar way then there will be a fairly bulky box
which has been plugged into a DiL socket on the main board. This
contains the BIOS chip and RTC battery potted in resin.

There's no way to replace the battery in this package but other people
have had success from piggy-backing a two-AA battery pack across the
relevant pins.

For what its worth, I didn't attempt to do any of this but I reclaimed
all the data by taking out the hard drive, changing the jumper-pins on
it from "Master" to "Slave" and plugging it into another computer with
IDE drives and configuring it as drive "D". Then I copied all the stuff
across from one to the other. The other computer being marginally more
modern with USB ports and the like, I then transferred everything to a
memory stick. (It didn't have to be a very big memory stick!)

Re-reading that, I realise I could have copied directly from drive "D"
to the memory stick. Doh!

Nick

Booting (or not) a 386
 

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery
charge, or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted
for 20 years.

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had. Just get a new cell for it.

It is on this Acorn RPC which is actually slightly newer. All my PCs have
non rechargeable, though. But don't have one that old.

--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 15:19:02 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 14:25:48 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 14:04:05 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2018 14:06:11 +0100, T i m wrote:

In something 20 years old it could well be a 3.6V Nicad /
rechargeable that would be soldered onto the Mobo.

Some designs had the battery integral to the RTC chip.

Dallas DS12887 as I recall.

That's the badger !

When we needed one (1991, so pre internet) there was no retail outlet in
the UK. My brother had to go to Birmingham to the sales office where
they gave him one (they hadn't the admin to sell one. Ten thousand, yes.
One, no :) ).

As I said, replacement was hairy - you needed the PC up & running to be
able to send the pulse to start the new chip clock.

I used them on the PS/2 Model 55 - it was obviously better designed! Plug
it in and it worked.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Booting (or not) a 386
 

In message , Chris Green
writes

They were mostly non-rechargable button cells but I did have one that
had a rechargeable battery. Not usually too difficult to replace,
just take a look inside at the motherboard and it should be pretty
obvious.

OK, I'm missing the obvious. The case is off, and I am looking for a
silver button battery, probably about the six of a sixpence. Could it
be entirely different?
--
Graeme

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 17:30:46 +0100, Graeme wrote:

OK, I'm missing the obvious. The case is off, and I am looking for a
silver button battery, probably about the six of a sixpence. Could it
be entirely different?

Size of a 10p piece more likely. Look for something shiny and round.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

Graeme wrote

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in
1992, running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and
set up, but no go, the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise,
flashing lights), but no video signal using the original monitor.

Tried with a more modern flat screen, which
responded, flashed 'no signal' and went to sleep.

It could be a fault,

Yep, that's what it is.

but could equally be something I've forgotten.

Not in a physical sense.

Any thoughts?

Its likely that its lost its cmos config with that battery now dead.

I'm using the original mouse and KB, but the VGA lead is not
the original, although that should not make a difference.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Graeme
writes

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go, the
PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no video signal
using the original monitor.

Ignore that. Repeated CTL-ALT-DEL seems to have fixed the signal problem,
BUT error message tells me the internal battery (Real time Clock) is
discharged. It seems that the BIOS defaults to boot from drive A (the
floppy), but I can change that to C, but, because the battery is flat, the
change is lost when rebooting, and it again tries to boot from A. No, I
can't find the original boot disc, although it must be here somewhere.

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,

Some do, some don't. You should be able to see a coin cell if it doesn't.

or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20 years.

I've reported you to the RSPCTPPGOPC, you'll be soorree...

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28/05/2018 14:37, Andy Burns wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had.

Can't think of any on desktop mothboards, but certainly some laptops
have rechargable CMOS batteries.

Back in the days of 8086/286/386, I do remember a few desktop PCs that
used rechargeable batteries, soldered in. I never kept any long enough
to need to replace it though.

SteveW

Booting (or not) a 386
 

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:46:37 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

The motherboard battery is certainly not
rechargeable in any computer I've ever had.

Some in the 386 era certainly were.

Just get a new cell for it.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Cursitor Doom wrote:

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had.

Can't think of any on desktop mothboards,

I can in the 386 era.

but certainly some laptops have rechargable CMOS batteries.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Monday, 28 May 2018 12:31:43 UTC+1, Mark Allread wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2018 12:16:22 +0100, Graeme wrote:
In message , Mark
Allread writes

Its probably beyond its life so try sticking a new battery in. AIr
Elonex were easy ones to get into and play with.

Oh good; thank you. I had visions of something soldered to the board.

There's a chance that may be the case but I don't recall Elonex being
that stupid.

Have now found a boot disk, but that does not help because, with battery
flat, BIOS has no record of either hard or floppy drives. I can set,
but the settings are lost on reboot. Bugger.

If the battery is easily swapped then that is the first step. BIOS can
follow.

NiCds often last that long, I'd try it first & see. Give it 12hrs on to charge & see if it holds settings.


NT

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On Monday, 28 May 2018 17:30:55 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
In message , Chris Green
writes

They were mostly non-rechargable button cells but I did have one that
had a rechargeable battery. Not usually too difficult to replace,
just take a look inside at the motherboard and it should be pretty
obvious.

OK, I'm missing the obvious. The case is off, and I am looking for a
silver button battery, probably about the six of a sixpence. Could it
be entirely different?

Look for a NiCd, typ 3.6v


NT

Booting (or not) a 386
 

Graeme wrote
Chris Green wrote

They were mostly non-rechargable button cells but I did have one that
had a rechargeable battery. Not usually too difficult to replace, just
take a look inside at the motherboard and it should be pretty obvious.

OK, I'm missing the obvious. The case is off, and I am looking for a
silver button battery, probably about the six of a sixpence. Could it be
entirely different?

See if you can see that Dallas chip. Characteristically it's much
thicker than a normal chip and has very square top corners.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eblzvzymoi...ttery.jpg?dl=0

You did sometimes see some fit a normally battery carrier
with a couple of AA batterys in it to bypass those too.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Graeme wrote
Chris Green wrote

They were mostly non-rechargable button cells but I did have one that
had a rechargeable battery. Not usually too difficult to replace, just
take a look inside at the motherboard and it should be pretty obvious.

OK, I'm missing the obvious. The case is off, and I am looking for a
silver button battery, probably about the six of a sixpence. Could it be
entirely different?

See if you can see that Dallas chip. Characteristically it's much
thicker than a normal chip and has very square top corners.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eblzvzymoi...ttery.jpg?dl=0

You did sometimes see some fit a normally battery carrier
with a couple of AA batterys in it to bypass those too.

It can also be like this
http://pc-restorer.com/wp-content/up...tery-nicd1.jpg

Booting (or not) a 386
 

In message , Rod Speed
writes

See if you can see that Dallas chip. Characteristically it's much
thicker than a normal chip and has very square top corners.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eblzvzymoi...ttery.jpg?dl=0

Useful, thank you. Will have another look tomorrow, in daylight,
failing which I'll post a photo or two.
--
Graeme

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28-May-18 5:30 PM, Graeme wrote:
In message , Chris Green
writes

They were mostly non-rechargable button cells but I did have one that
had a rechargeable battery.Â* Not usually too difficult to replace,
just take a look inside at the motherboard and it should be pretty
obvious.

OK, I'm missing the obvious.Â* The case is off, and I am looking for a
silver button battery, probably about the six of a sixpence.Â* Could it
be entirely different?

Very old PC's 286/386 had batteries that were about 2" long, 1/2"
square, had a long lead and plugged in on 4 pin plug. Usually Velcroed
to something, if built by ****s the bios chip otherwise the side of the
PSU. I think these were lithium.

A nicd would be 3 cells in a shrink jacket about 3/8" dia and 3/8" long.
The cells are stacked on their side, with tags at the ends that solder
into the board. I've got a vesa bus socket 3 motherboard (486/Amd586)
with this type of battery on it. Battery has a green jacket but I think
I've seen black, red, blue and yellow as well.

Silver button cell lithium was introduced I think about Pentium MMX and
socket 7. But as I don't have any socket 3/4/5/6 boards it's a bit hard
to tell.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28/05/18 11:46, Graeme wrote:
In message , Graeme
writes

Rootling around in the loft, I found my Elonex 386, bought in 1992,
running DOS and W3.1, so brought it downstairs and set up, but no go,
the PC itself seems to boot (fan noise, flashing lights), but no video
signal using the original monitor.

Ignore that.Â* Repeated CTL-ALT-DEL seems to have fixed the signal
problem, BUT error message tells me the internal battery (Real time
Clock) is discharged.Â* It seems that the BIOS defaults to boot from
drive A (the floppy), but I can change that to C, but, because the
battery is flat, the change is lost when rebooting, and it again tries
to boot from A.Â* No, I can't find the original boot disc, although it
must be here somewhere.

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable?Â* PC has probably not been booted for 20 years.

may work if itrs an NiCd.

If its a button cell replace it


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

Booting (or not) a 386
 

On 28/05/18 13:11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2018 11:46:37 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In the meantime, if I leave the PC on, will the internal battery charge,
or is it not rechargeable? PC has probably not been booted for 20
years.

The motherboard battery is certainly not rechargeable in any computer
I've ever had. Just get a new cell for it.



Oh I had some with NiCd in





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guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin