Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and totally
fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad in
places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator leaking: the
central heating system has not visibly been losing water or pressure.
I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to contact the manufacturer
of the radiator to see what they propose. On the B&Q web site it says the
radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not affect
your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On 14/02/18 09:26, Robert Hill wrote:
In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and totally
fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad in
places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator leaking: the
central heating system has not visibly been losing water or pressure.
I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to contact the manufacturer
of the radiator to see what they propose. On the B&Q web site it says the
radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not affect
your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

Give up. three 'non stick' roasting pans later from Waitrose (all had
the nonstick coating coming away after a few uses) thats what I did.

I bought one from Tesco instead. It seems better.

Life is too short.

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:26:50 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:

In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and totally
fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad in
places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator leaking: the
central heating system has not visibly been losing water or pressure.
I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to contact the manufacturer
of the radiator to see what they propose. On the B&Q web site it says the
radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not affect
your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

I assume the warranty of 5 years was issued by the radiator
manufacturer not the supplier? If so you have legal rights against
both the seller and the manufacturers guarantee. The Sale and Supply
of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002 applies to guarantees and makes
them enforceable contracts

It is usually worth trying the guarantee route first. The
manufacturer may often produce a better and quicker solution than
going via the supplier. Trying the manufacturer first does not affect
any action you might want to take against the seller later.

Your purchase was in 2014 so is covered by the Sale of Goods Act (not
the later Consumer Rights Act 2015). The item is 4 years old. It is
your responsibility to prove that the failure was a result of a defect
present in the item at the time of sale. To do this you may need to
have the rail examined by an expert and a report produced identifying
the cause of the failure. You have to pay for this although the cost
can be recovered if the case ends up in court and you win.

One advantage of going to the manufacturer initially is that they are
likely to be more aware of failure modes than the seller and usually
have no problem replacing items which have failed prematurely. Sending
them an explanation of the problem with some photos of the damage
may well produce a replacement. Equally if they identify the problem
as poor maintenance you have the choice of going ahead with an expert
report of your own (which may well say the same but cost you money)
or accepting their assessment.

The most likely cause of corrosion under the rungs will be a
combination of condensation on the radiator in the bathroom and
inadequate cleaning. If the radiator has no electrical auxiliary
heater and the central heating is off the radiator will often be
colder than the air in the bathroom, especially if the bathroom
ventilation is poor. Water vapour condenses on the radiator surface
and gathers on the bottom of the rungs where it is slow to evaporate.
Mould grows on the damp surface. If the radiator is painted or powder
coated this is more likely than if it is chromium plated. The mould
attacks the surface finish until it reaches the steel underneath and
causes rust. Most towel radiator instructions recommend regular
wiping with a dry cloth to minimise mould growth.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:26:50 +0000
Robert Hill wrote:

In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and
totally fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad
in places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator
leaking: the central heating system has not visibly been losing water
or pressure.

Probably just condensation when the heat is off and someone has a bath
or shower.

I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to
contact the manufacturer of the radiator to see what they propose.
On the B&Q web site it says the radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not
affect your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

Is the chrome flaking off or just a bit porous? I'd give it a wipe over
with some very fine wire wool and a squirt of sewing machine oil or baby
oil, and see how it looked.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

In article ,
Robert Hill wrote:
In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and
totally fitted by B&Q. A ladder radiator has started going rusty under
the rungs - quite bad in places. I don't know why - there has been no
sign of radiator leaking: the central heating system has not visibly
been losing water or pressure. I have contacted B&Q and they have told
me I need to contact the manufacturer of the radiator to see what they
propose. On the B&Q web site it says the radiator is guaranteed for 5
years. On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do
not affect your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

Try and get a refund, and buy a SS one from the likes of TLC. Mine is many
years old and still perfect.

Chrome on steel isn't ideal for a damp area like a bathroom. Hence most
cars now using SS rather than chrome.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On 14/02/2018 11:11, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:26:50 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:

In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and totally
fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad in
places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator leaking: the
central heating system has not visibly been losing water or pressure.
I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to contact the manufacturer
of the radiator to see what they propose. On the B&Q web site it says the
radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not affect
your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

I assume the warranty of 5 years was issued by the radiator
manufacturer not the supplier? If so you have legal rights against
both the seller and the manufacturers guarantee. The Sale and Supply
of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002 applies to guarantees and makes

The most likely cause of corrosion under the rungs will be a
combination of condensation on the radiator
Its a towel rail. It should be designed to take wet towels, that's what
its for.

Your contract is with B&Q, ok try the manufacturer route but don't be
fobbed off by B&Q that took your money and offered 5 years warranty.

Mike

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 14/02/2018 11:11, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:26:50 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:

In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and
totally
fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad in
places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator leaking:
the
central heating system has not visibly been losing water or pressure.
I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to contact the
manufacturer
of the radiator to see what they propose. On the B&Q web site it says
the
radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not
affect
your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

I assume the warranty of 5 years was issued by the radiator
manufacturer not the supplier? If so you have legal rights against
both the seller and the manufacturers guarantee. The Sale and Supply
of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002 applies to guarantees and makes

The most likely cause of corrosion under the rungs will be a
combination of condensation on the radiator
Its a towel rail. It should be designed to take wet towels, that's what
its for.

Your contract is with B&Q, ok try the manufacturer route but don't be
fobbed off by B&Q that took your money and offered 5 years warranty.

Mike

you never chrome plate directly on steel

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 14:29:56 +0000, Muddymike
wrote:

On 14/02/2018 11:11, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:26:50 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:

I assume the warranty of 5 years was issued by the radiator
manufacturer not the supplier? If so you have legal rights against
both the seller and the manufacturers guarantee. The Sale and Supply
of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002 applies to guarantees and makes

The most likely cause of corrosion under the rungs will be a
combination of condensation on the radiator

Its a towel rail. It should be designed to take wet towels, that's what
its for.

Of course it is, that doesn't mean to say it is supposed to do it
without any routine cleaning for 4 years. Most towel rails come with
a very brief set of maintenance instructions suggesting they are wiped
dry at intervals.

Your contract is with B&Q, ok try the manufacturer route but don't be
fobbed off by B&Q that took your money and offered 5 years warranty.

B&Q may not have offered any warranty, most often it is the
manufacturer or distributor who does. Any warranty, no matter who
offers it, forms a binding contract in a consumer sale.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

Who are their underwriters for this scheme?
Also, I guess that they should contact the company and both agree who to
send to view the problem and suggest a solution to you.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Robert Hill" wrote in message
...
In May 2014 I had a totally new bathroom refit - bought from and totally
fitted by B&Q.
A ladder radiator has started going rusty under the rungs - quite bad in
places. I don't know why - there has been no sign of radiator leaking:
the
central heating system has not visibly been losing water or pressure.
I have contacted B&Q and they have told me I need to contact the
manufacturer
of the radiator to see what they propose. On the B&Q web site it says the
radiator is guaranteed for 5 years.
On the t&c of my contract with B&Q - it says "These conditions do not
affect
your statutory rights."

Suggestions on how to proceed please,

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On 14/02/2018 14:29, Muddymike wrote:
Its a towel rail. It should be designed to take wet towels, that's what
its for.

No such thing.

They are towel warmers, not driers.

Towels should be dried where there is sufficient ventilation
(something the OP hasn't mentioned) or in a tumble dryer,
not chucked on a very inefficient 'radiator'.

Did the OP make the mistake of replacing the original rad
with a towel 'radiator' ?. If so the bathroom isn't getting
hot enough to allow moisture to be driven off and removed
by ventilation.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

In article ,
Phi wrote:
you never chrome plate directly on steel

No. But the problem is high quality chrome plating is extremely expensive.
B&Q ain't exactly known for the very best quality.

--
*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 16:38:28 +0000, Andrew
wrote:


Did the OP make the mistake of replacing the original rad
with a towel 'radiator' ?.

B&Q "designed" the new bathroom and all accessories in it: so I am not aware
that *I* made any mistake (apart from buying from B&Q in the first place)

As far as I am concerned - the "design", checks that all items were suitable
and provision of all items and the installation was the responsibility of B&Q.
There were no special instructions on how to look after the radiator.

I have looked at the manufacturers website and I cannot see any telephone,
address or email address. All contact seems to be carried out by filling in
forms. They say that they are a wholesale manufacturer.

(As an aside: do web-sites have to have contact details? People should not
have to complete a form)

I am not going to deal with them directly: as far as I am concerned it is a B&Q
problem.

I have decided that the next step is a letter before action to B&Q HQ.

Thanks for various comments.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:08:45 +0000, Phi wrote:

====snip====


you never chrome plate directly on steel

Except in the case of Brazilian made Volkswagen Beetle tail pipes. :-(

--
Johnny B Good

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On 14/02/2018 22:15, Robert Hill wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 16:38:28 +0000, Andrew
wrote:


Did the OP make the mistake of replacing the original rad
with a towel 'radiator' ?.

B&Q "designed" the new bathroom and all accessories in it: so I am not aware
that *I* made any mistake (apart from buying from B&Q in the first place)

As far as I am concerned - the "design", checks that all items were suitable
and provision of all items and the installation was the responsibility of B&Q.
There were no special instructions on how to look after the radiator.

I have looked at the manufacturers website and I cannot see any telephone,
address or email address. All contact seems to be carried out by filling in
forms. They say that they are a wholesale manufacturer.

(As an aside: do web-sites have to have contact details? People should not
have to complete a form)

I am not going to deal with them directly: as far as I am concerned it is a B&Q
problem.

I have decided that the next step is a letter before action to B&Q HQ.

Thanks for various comments.


Please let us know how it works out.

Mike

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On 15/02/18 09:24, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Phi wrote:

you never chrome plate directly on steel

Chrome finish rads are a bad idea, anyway. A white one will radiate
much more heat.

except that most of the heat is convection anyway..

--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:15:15 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:


I have decided that the next step is a letter before action to B&Q HQ.

You are supposed to use this after you have written to the supplier
setting out your complaint and after allowing them time to resolve the
disagreement, not as a first resort.

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:15:15 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:


I have decided that the next step is a letter before action to B&Q HQ.

From Citizens Advice

"Going to court is the last resort. The court will expect you to find
another way of reaching an agreement before taking your claim to
court. Otherwise, the court might decide that you will not get your
costs back or that you should pay the other party’s costs, even if you
win the case."

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:17:20 +0000, Peter Parry wrote:

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:15:15 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:


I have decided that the next step is a letter before action to B&Q HQ.

You are supposed to use this after you have written to the supplier
setting out your complaint and after allowing them time to resolve the
disagreement, not as a first resort.




I have written to B&Q with a letter entitled Letter before Action.

In that letter I have documented what has happened - and given them a certain
time to tell me how they wish to resolve the matter. If I have had not had a
satisfactory explanation of their plan before a certain date (ie a plan - not
the completed replacement) , I have said that I will commence a court action

What is legally wrong with that please?

Sale of Goods - Bathroom refit
 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:41:09 +0000, Peter Parry wrote:

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:15:15 +0000, Robert Hill
wrote:


I have decided that the next step is a letter before action to B&Q HQ.

From Citizens Advice

"Going to court is the last resort. The court will expenct you to find
another way of reaching an agreement before taking your claim to
court. Otherwise, the court might decide that you will not get your
costs back or that you should pay the other party’s costs, even if you
win the case."


I have tried - and I have been given the run around (which I do not need to
document here). Please see previous post.