My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil

On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

We tried with just one tape, and the light is very meagre compared to a
fluorescent. You'd need several, not just one or two.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you can
work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light output.





The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It doesn't bend that way. There are 90 degree connectors, but I haven't
seen 45 degree ones.


Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

It can just be stuck on. It doesn't get hot. However, the strip may get
dirty, particularly in a kitchen, and it would be virtually impossible
to clean. Those housings can just be wiped with a soapy cloth.


Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil

On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


See
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...ngs/index.html


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sunday, 17 December 2017 22:38:05 UTC, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need?

How long is a piece of string. What do your current lights put out, estimate from there.


I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

of course

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

if out of sight you can twist it on the corner. If visible that wouldn't look good.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets

yes. If out of sight you could cover it over with velcroed clear plastic bottle strips to keep them clean.


or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

there's never any reason to buy anything from RS.

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

3000K is not as yellowy tinged as 2700K. I'd avoid higher CCTs unless you know you want them.


What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

12v 1A is 12watts.

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil

I'd give them at least one dimmed setting. For relaxed use it looks better and extends LED life hugely. A series cap on the mains feed can do that, as long as the PSUs don't misbehave.


NT

On 17/12/17 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil


You can get ali channel with clip on diffusers for this purpose - these
have screw on clips.

But for ease, I used:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...ngs/index.html

24V - I got a *decent* 24V SELV PSU from RS (over heat, over current
protection).


If you want to go with tapes, you can get self adhesive LED tape that is
waterproof (it's coated with a film):

https://www.led-lighthouse.co.uk/led...d-strip-lights

I see they have a new LED in those - the brightest of the tapes a few
months ago was absolutely mental.

I would go with 24V - then you don't worry about volt drop problems over
distance. All quite safe (with a quality SELV PSU) too.

Those guys also sell the ali channel I mentioned.

On 17/12/17 23:06, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I
need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The
tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes
side-by-side for a
higher output.

We tried with just one tape, and the light is very meagre compared to a
fluorescent. You'd need several, not just one or two.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you can
work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light output.

These are upto around 1300 lm/m:

https://www.led-lighthouse.co.uk/led...waterproof-24v

But bear in mind all of that is going down, rather than up, backwards
and forwards.

I have some (in a different application) and they are *bright*.
Blindingly so if you look at them directly without a diffuser.

One thing to note is that the glue on ones do not stayed glued on if kettles
and toasters are used below the shelves and I'd doubt it does the leds much
good either, over time.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Phil Addison" wrote in message
...
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need?
I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The
tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes
side-by-side for a
higher output.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with
cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little
angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape
around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will
a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it
need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously
expensive product!

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of
the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers,
one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll
either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will
only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing
tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil

On 18/12/2017 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
One thing to note is that the glue on ones do not stayed glued on if kettles
and toasters are used below the shelves and I'd doubt it does the leds much
good either, over time.

+1
I've had the adhesive on these LED strips fail (becoming unstuck) after
a period of time and that is in the absence of heat or steam. Not the
whole length but in small sections. Enclosing them in in a aluminum
channel for heat sink purposes and adding a clip on cover or diffuser
will help with a glue failure, cosmetically at least.

Waterproof strips for outdoor use are possibly recommended for kitchen use.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/12/2017 23:06, GB wrote:

We tried with just one tape, and the light is very meagre compared to a
fluorescent. You'd need several, not just one or two.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you can
work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light output.


For under cabinet lights pointing downward to a work surface do you
actually need 3000 lumens per meter?

I doubt that most shorter tubes fitted in under cabinet lights are a
higher wattage item giving that much light.

Lower wattage tubes may be comparable with the figures for LEDs

Typical figures
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...n_Complies.htm

Unlike a fluorescent tube LED is a directional light source and all the
light will be directed towards the work surface.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

I went with the LEDHut 72W/5m strip, and that to me seemed just right.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It will be tricky to change angle in that plane and keep it flat. Cut
and wire would give a neater result.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

I left it bare since you can't see it. If you want there are splash
proof and fully waterproof versions if you are worried about water /
steam etc.

You can also get :

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...es-bundle.html

(go to the trade version of the site for better prices!)

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

Probably not - kitchens can get away with "whiter" light IME. However
the 2700K tape works well.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

On mine I went with something like:

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...er-driver.html

and actually mounted it *inside* the cooker hood, and powered it from
its internal lighting switch. So when you switch on the cooker hood
light, it also brings on the under cabinet light.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/12/2017 23:06, GB wrote:

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter.

The typical under cupboard T5 tubes are significantly less than that.
more like 1500 lumen/m tops.

The tapes are often 1000 lumen/m - however you can have a continuous run
without needing to stop for the ends of the tubes / fittings.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or
does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously
expensive product!

It can just be stuck on. It doesn't get hot. However, the strip may get
dirty, particularly in a kitchen, and it would be virtually impossible
to clean. Those housings can just be wiped with a soapy cloth.

If you get the waterproof version, its dipped in a clear silicone jacket
that is smooth and can be wiped down.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/12/2017 12:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I
need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The
tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes
side-by-side for a
higher output.

I went with the LEDHut 72W/5m strip, and that to me seemed just right.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with
cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little
angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of
tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or
will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It will be tricky to change angle in that plane and keep it flat. Cut
and wire would give a neater result.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or
does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously
expensive product!

I left it bare since you can't see it. If you want there are splash
proof and fully waterproof versions if you are worried about water /
steam etc.

You can also get :

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...es-bundle.html


(go to the trade version of the site for better prices!)

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot
of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

Probably not - kitchens can get away with "whiter" light IME. However
the 2700K tape works well.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V
drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll
either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which
will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6
existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

On mine I went with something like:

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...er-driver.html


and actually mounted it *inside* the cooker hood, and powered it from
its internal lighting switch. So when you switch on the cooker hood
light, it also brings on the under cabinet light.



Would you normally buy stuff where it says:-

"20% of the transformer capacity needs to be left over to prevent
overloading "?

Why are they quoting load figures that are unsafe if you use them?

Is it even an isolated supply or just some cheap Chinese SMPSU?
For damp areas you really want an isolated supply to avoid shocks and/or
RCD trips.

You should consider something like
http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/led-...15w/dp/PW04025

Which is a SELV led driver and is isolating, runs at 100% of its rating
(and is cheaper).

In article ,
says...


Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


As well as the TLC strips these are easily available:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p33590

They come in various lengths with fixing brackets and link
leads so you can daisy chain them to the required lengths
and, of course, the flexible link leads go round corners.

They are mains operated, so no separate PSU to
buy/mount/hide (one mains feed for the entire string) and
look, overall, very much cheaper (and simpler) than the LED
tapes you were considering.

We've got a couple of shortish one that came from Lidl under
two small cabinets over a dark corner of the worktop and
management is well pleased with them.

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On 18/12/2017 17:32, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


As well as the TLC strips these are easily available:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p33590

They come in various lengths with fixing brackets and link
leads so you can daisy chain them to the required lengths
and, of course, the flexible link leads go round corners.

They are mains operated, so no separate PSU to
buy/mount/hide (one mains feed for the entire string) and
look, overall, very much cheaper (and simpler) than the LED
tapes you were considering.

We've got a couple of shortish one that came from Lidl under
two small cabinets over a dark corner of the worktop and
management is well pleased with them.



These are really good if lidl have them in again..

http://www.lidl-service.com/cps/rde/...%20LED%20Light

On Sunday, 17 December 2017 22:38:05 UTC, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil

Apologies for my lack of response - for some weird reason my newsreader is refusing to fetch any of this thread. I'm resorting to google groups for time being.

On Sunday, 17 December 2017 23:06:21 UTC, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you can
work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light output.

Doesn't that depend on the size of the tube?? Mine are T4 (1/2" dia) 16W 2700K 455mm long ROBUS. And Robus is a make I'll avoid as these are failing in less that 1 year. I have tried to find out their claimed output with no success.

corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It doesn't bend that way. There are 90 degree connectors, but I haven't
seen 45 degree ones.

As I suspected. It will be the wired solderless types then.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

It can just be stuck on. It doesn't get hot. However, the strip may get
dirty, particularly in a kitchen, and it would be virtually impossible
to clean. Those housings can just be wiped with a soapy cloth.

Good point, thanks.

On Sunday, 17 December 2017 23:51:35 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


See
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...ngs/index.html

Yes, I saw those, but then found bare tapes and wondered why buy a fitting if you cab just stick the bare tapes on. I have my answer now, thanks.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 03:57:01 UTC, wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 22:38:05 UTC, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need?

How long is a piece of string. What do your current lights put out, estimate from there.

See previous reply

or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

there's never any reason to buy anything from RS.

I certainly wasn't suggesting I'd buy them from RS, just pointing out an example.

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

3000K is not as yellowy tinged as 2700K. I'd avoid higher CCTs unless you know you want them.

ok

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

12v 1A is 12watts.

No **** Sherlock

I'd give them at least one dimmed setting. For relaxed use it looks better and extends LED life hugely. A series cap on the mains feed can do that, as long as the PSUs don't misbehave.

Its only under cabinet lighting. There is an on-off wall-switch for when they are not wanted.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 09:20:14 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/12/17 23:06, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I
need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The
tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes
side-by-side for a
higher output.

We tried with just one tape, and the light is very meagre compared to a
fluorescent. You'd need several, not just one or two.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you can
work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light output.

These are upto around 1300 lm/m:

https://www.led-lighthouse.co.uk/led...waterproof-24v

But bear in mind all of that is going down, rather than up, backwards
and forwards.

I have some (in a different application) and they are *bright*.
Blindingly so if you look at them directly without a diffuser.

Thanks for the links Tim. I think I'll be getting a short piece of middle of the range lm/m to experiment with!

Maybe the water-proof ones Tim mentioned will survive better

On Monday, 18 December 2017 09:34:28 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
One thing to note is that the glue on ones do not stayed glued on if kettles
and toasters are used below the shelves and I'd doubt it does the leds much
good either, over time.

Brian

On 18/12/2017 21:07, .phil_a wrote:

Doesn't that depend on the size of the tube?? Mine are T4 (1/2" dia) 16W 2700K 455mm long ROBUS. And Robus is a make I'll avoid as these are failing in less that 1 year. I have tried to find out their claimed output with no success.


https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...n_Complies.htm

suggests around 60 lumens/watt and a 450mm 15w = 900 lumens when new and
perhaps 40% lower at end of useful life.

The same table indicates around 60 to 80 lumens per watt with the higher
figures for the higher wattage longer tubes so 2000l/m may require a 30W
tube and 3000l/m a 38W tube.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:41:02 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
One thing to note is that the glue on ones do not stayed glued on if kettles
and toasters are used below the shelves and I'd doubt it does the leds much
good either, over time.

+1
I've had the adhesive on these LED strips fail (becoming unstuck) after
a period of time and that is in the absence of heat or steam. Not the
whole length but in small sections. Enclosing them in in a aluminum
channel for heat sink purposes and adding a clip on cover or diffuser
will help with a glue failure, cosmetically at least.

Waterproof strips for outdoor use are possibly recommended for kitchen use.

Noted. Thanks.

On 18/12/2017 21:07, .phil_a wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 23:06:21 UTC, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an
ever faster rate, so I'm thinking of replacing with LEDs,
particularly flexible LED tapes.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you
can work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light
output.

Doesn't that depend on the size of the tube?? Mine are T4 (1/2" dia)
16W 2700K 455mm long ROBUS. And Robus is a make I'll avoid as these
are failing in less that 1 year. I have tried to find out their
claimed output with no success.

I have found most of the slim under cabinet fl tube lamps to be fairly
poor in life expectancy - either the tube of the fitting failing within
a couple of years.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 18 December 2017 10:53:32 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 17/12/2017 23:06, GB wrote:

We tried with just one tape, and the light is very meagre compared to a
fluorescent. You'd need several, not just one or two.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you can
work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light output.


For under cabinet lights pointing downward to a work surface do you
actually need 3000 lumens per meter?

I doubt that most shorter tubes fitted in under cabinet lights are a
higher wattage item giving that much light.

Lower wattage tubes may be comparable with the figures for LEDs

Typical figures
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technic...n_Complies.htm

Brilliant. That's the data I've been wanting.

Unlike a fluorescent tube LED is a directional light source and all the
light will be directed towards the work surface.

I haven't checked them all but the first few are 120 degree beams so around 23% will hit the wall behind the worktop, and another 25% will head toward the floor missing the worktop altogether. But I don't know if the spread is uniform across the 120 deg. Probably not.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:36:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

I went with the LEDHut 72W/5m strip, and that to me seemed just right.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It will be tricky to change angle in that plane and keep it flat. Cut
and wire would give a neater result.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

I left it bare since you can't see it. If you want there are splash
proof and fully waterproof versions if you are worried about water /
steam etc.

You can also get :

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...es-bundle.html

(go to the trade version of the site for better prices!)

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

Probably not - kitchens can get away with "whiter" light IME. However
the 2700K tape works well.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

On mine I went with something like:

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...er-driver.html

and actually mounted it *inside* the cooker hood, and powered it from
its internal lighting switch. So when you switch on the cooker hood
light, it also brings on the under cabinet light.

Thanks John, top advice as usual.

On 18/12/2017 21:38, John Rumm wrote:


I have found most of the slim under cabinet fl tube lamps to be fairly
poor in life expectancy - either the tube of the fitting failing within
a couple of years.


A random search of 4 brands all give an average life of 5000 hours at
which point the light output could be 600 lumens for a 450mm tube.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Monday, 18 December 2017 16:04:50 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 12:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I
need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The
tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes
side-by-side for a
higher output.

I went with the LEDHut 72W/5m strip, and that to me seemed just right.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with
cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little
angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of
tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or
will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It will be tricky to change angle in that plane and keep it flat. Cut
and wire would give a neater result.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or
does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously
expensive product!

I left it bare since you can't see it. If you want there are splash
proof and fully waterproof versions if you are worried about water /
steam etc.

You can also get :

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...es-bundle.html


(go to the trade version of the site for better prices!)

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot
of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

Probably not - kitchens can get away with "whiter" light IME. However
the 2700K tape works well.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V
drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll
either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which
will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6
existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

On mine I went with something like:

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...er-driver.html


and actually mounted it *inside* the cooker hood, and powered it from
its internal lighting switch. So when you switch on the cooker hood
light, it also brings on the under cabinet light.



Would you normally buy stuff where it says:-

"20% of the transformer capacity needs to be left over to prevent
overloading "?

Why are they quoting load figures that are unsafe if you use them?

Is it even an isolated supply or just some cheap Chinese SMPSU?
For damp areas you really want an isolated supply to avoid shocks and/or
RCD trips.

You should consider something like
http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/led-...15w/dp/PW04025

Which is a SELV led driver and is isolating, runs at 100% of its rating
(and is cheaper).

and is pretty much the same as the RS one I mentioned.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:31:59 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


As well as the TLC strips these are easily available:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p33590

I'll take a look next time I'm in Toolstation.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 20:49:41 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 17:32, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


As well as the TLC strips these are easily available:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p33590

They come in various lengths with fixing brackets and link
leads so you can daisy chain them to the required lengths
and, of course, the flexible link leads go round corners.

They are mains operated, so no separate PSU to
buy/mount/hide (one mains feed for the entire string) and
look, overall, very much cheaper (and simpler) than the LED
tapes you were considering.

We've got a couple of shortish one that came from Lidl under
two small cabinets over a dark corner of the worktop and
management is well pleased with them.



These are really good if lidl have them in again..

http://www.lidl-service.com/cps/rde/...%20LED%20Light

"The requested URL was rejected. Please consult with your administrator."

On 18/12/2017 21:59, .phil_a wrote:

"The requested URL was rejected. Please consult with your administrator."


It works for me so try
https://tinyurl.com/y94zw7xy


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

dennis@home wrote:

On 18/12/2017 12:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I
need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The
tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes
side-by-side for a
higher output.

I went with the LEDHut 72W/5m strip, and that to me seemed just right.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with
cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little
angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of
tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or
will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

It will be tricky to change angle in that plane and keep it flat. Cut
and wire would give a neater result.

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or
does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously
expensive product!

I left it bare since you can't see it. If you want there are splash
proof and fully waterproof versions if you are worried about water /
steam etc.

You can also get :

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...profile-pc-cov
er-and-accessories-bundle.html


(go to the trade version of the site for better prices!)

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot
of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

Probably not - kitchens can get away with "whiter" light IME. However
the 2700K tape works well.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V
drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll
either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which
will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6
existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

On mine I went with something like:

https://www.ledhut.co.uk/led-strip-l...sformer-driver
.html


and actually mounted it *inside* the cooker hood, and powered it from
its internal lighting switch. So when you switch on the cooker hood
light, it also brings on the under cabinet light.



Would you normally buy stuff where it says:-

"20% of the transformer capacity needs to be left over to prevent
overloading "?

Why are they quoting load figures that are unsafe if you use them?

Is it even an isolated supply or just some cheap Chinese SMPSU? For damp
areas you really want an isolated supply to avoid shocks and/or RCD trips.

You should consider something like
http://cpc.farnell.com/powerpax/led-...er-12vdc-1-25a
-15w/dp/PW04025

Which is a SELV led driver and is isolating, runs at 100% of its rating
(and is cheaper).

I wondered about this so I googled it. It seems that the VA rating of
a regulated power supply (which is probably the same as the power
rating) is based on the maximum current the makers declare to be
possible without the voltage changing significantly or other bad things
happening. So it is the VA you can actually use.

However, the VA rating of a transformer is not so much a specification
as an actual measurement. The output current is increased until the
output drops by a specified percentage, about 12% to 30% for dfferent
types or sizes of transformer. The VA rating is then the *nominal*
secondary voltage (not the measured one) times this current. This is a
historical industry standard tather than a manufacturer's nominal
rating.

Therefore, if you know a transformer is VA rated in this way you want to
use it somewhat below that rating in practice so that the output voltage
does not drop significantly, not least because the drop is generating
heat.

So this is a valid practical engineering suggestion to routinely derate
the VA used.

Thanks for encouraging me to look this up - I had suspected something of
the sort but it is nice to know.




--

Roger Hayter

On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever faster rate, so I'm
thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly flexible LED tapes.

A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil



I'd look very carefully before buying, especially at the 'tape'
solutions and cheaper end of the market.

I've looked at various LED lighting for a slightly different application
and found the variation between supposed/claimed light levels and what I
consider similar to 'equal' output alternatives to be laughable.

In particular, things like 1W claimed to give the same light output as
10W is just misleading. Even the Lumen figures can't be relied on in my
view.

I'd recommend trying to visit somewhere you can see some lights in use
and compare different ones.

Another consideration is colour, or colour temperature. I like 'cold
white'- it gives a brighter like in my view, certainly to work/read by.
I'd be happy with it everywhere. My wife, while happy in areas where
reading/working etc, prefers 'warm white' elsewhere.





--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On Monday, 18 December 2017 22:02:39 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 18/12/2017 21:59, .phil_a wrote:

"The requested URL was rejected. Please consult with your administrator."


It works for me so try
https://tinyurl.com/y94zw7xy

yup, that works.

Yes this is brand and new idea.

On 18/12/17 21:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/12/2017 21:07, .phil_a wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 23:06:21 UTC, GBÂ* wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an
ever faster rate, so I'm thinking of replacing with LEDs,
particularly flexible LED tapes.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you
can work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light
output.

Doesn't that depend on the size of the tube?? Mine are T4 (1/2" dia)
16W 2700K 455mm long ROBUS. And Robus is a make I'll avoid as these
are failing in less that 1 year. I have tried to find out their
claimed output with no success.

I have found most of the slim under cabinet fl tube lamps to be fairly
poor in life expectancy - either the tube of the fitting failing within
a couple of years.




I'll be interested to see how mine fare. Having looked, it's basically a
24V LED tape inside as far as I can see - so in theory, would be
repairable, if it comes apart!

On 19/12/2017 13:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/12/17 21:38, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/12/2017 21:07, .phil_a wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 23:06:21 UTC, GB wrote:
On 17/12/2017 22:38, Phil Addison wrote:
My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an
ever faster rate, so I'm thinking of replacing with LEDs,
particularly flexible LED tapes.

A fluorescent tube is about 3000 - 4000 lumens per meter. So, you
can work out exactly how many tapes you need for equivalent light
output.

Doesn't that depend on the size of the tube?? Mine are T4 (1/2" dia)
16W 2700K 455mm long ROBUS. And Robus is a make I'll avoid as these
are failing in less that 1 year. I have tried to find out their
claimed output with no success.

I have found most of the slim under cabinet fl tube lamps to be fairly
poor in life expectancy - either the tube of the fitting failing
within a couple of years.




I'll be interested to see how mine fare. Having looked, it's basically a
24V LED tape inside as far as I can see - so in theory, would be
repairable, if it comes apart!

The LED ones are IME significantly better - much lower premature failure
rate.

My former neighbours had both over and under cabinet lighting in their
kitchen. With the slim conventional tube fittings (of which they
probably had a ten), after a couple of years they were getting a failure
every couple of months. I swapped em all out for new fittings with LEDs
a couple of years ago, and no failures since.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 18 December 2017 21:26:16 UTC, .phil_a wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 03:57:01 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 17 December 2017 22:38:05 UTC, Phil Addison wrote:

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need?

How long is a piece of string. What do your current lights put out, estimate from there.

See previous reply

there wasn't any lumen info in it. Look up typical lumens/watt and work it out.


12v 1A is 12watts.

No **** Sherlock

you were asking a very basic question


NT

In article 160ede6c-5ce8-47a6-8f20-a740bcd88e74
@googlegroups.com, says...

On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:31:59 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.


As well as the TLC strips these are easily available:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p33590

I'll take a look next time I'm in Toolstation.


As management prefers warm white I got this one instead:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p11728

Interestingly, the 570mm long one I bought is 8W rather than
the 6.5W of the cool white version, so costs more to run but
is cheaper to buy.

Also, it doesn't come with a fitted 13A plug but, as I've got
loads of those that have been salvaged over the years, that
was no problem (and no additional expense).


--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
My former neighbours had both over and under cabinet lighting in their
kitchen. With the slim conventional tube fittings (of which they
probably had a ten), after a couple of years they were getting a failure
every couple of months. I swapped em all out for new fittings with LEDs
a couple of years ago, and no failures since.

I have standard size florries here as under cabinet lighting. Tubes seem
to last forever. Most plinths seem to be big enough to hide my size of
tube, so no real reason to use smaller? Except that so many of those plug
together under cabinet fittings seem to use T4 tubes. A good reason to
make up your own.

Although I've got a couple of short T4s as panel lamps elsewhere. They
seem to have a pretty decent life too - far better than the tungsten they
replaced. But will probably change to LED there if and when they fail.

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 22:38:11 +0000, Phil Addison wrote:

My old fluorescent under-kitchen-cabinet tubes are failing at an ever
faster rate, so I'm thinking of replacing with LEDs, particularly
flexible LED tapes.

Late to this thread, but if the tuit hasn't yet arrivied take a look
at the LV waterproof stick on strips on
eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1M-2M-3M-...-RGBW-Warm-Whi
te-IP65-Home-Kitchen-Christmas-Xmas/322248576297

I've just fitted a couple of meters of RGB and WW strip to the
underside of a shelf above my desk. Works very well, though I don't
generally use the fancy colour changing abilties just the WW presets
at 25/50/75 and 100%. The RGB white is cool white and can be used to
control the overall CT. The RG and WW have individual on/off and
level controls, the on/off is just that.

Turning corners at shelf ends is a cut and solder job, The sticky
isn't wonderful either onto lighter fluid degreased smooth melamine.



A few things I'm not sure about...

The light output is quoted in lumens per metre, but how many do I need? I've seen outputs
from 290 to 780 lm/m for 12V systems and up to 1200 lm/m for 24V. The tapes will be 45cm
above a dark textured work surface. I suppose you can put 2 tapes side-by-side for a
higher output.

The kitchen layout is U-shaped with the sink in front of a window with cabinet runs either
side. At each side of the sink the runs are finished off with a little angled/corner shelf
unit at right angles to the main run. I'd like to run the last bit of tape around this
corner if possible. Is it possible to twist it through 45 degrees or will a I have to cut
it and use a wired connector?

Can I just stick the bare tape to the underside of the cabinets or does it need to be
mounted into a holder such as RS Stock No. 797-2432, a horrendously expensive product!

Then there's colour temperature. My fluorescents are 2700K but a lot of the white LEDs
seem to be 3000+. I don't suppose that's a big deal in this application.

What about drivers. I assume I'll just need a couple of basic 12V drivers, one each side
of the sink - though the hob interrupts the run on the right, so I'll either have to route
some cable round that of use a 3rd driver for the last cabinet which will only has a 55cm
LED run. I have easy access to the 240VAC that's feeding the 6 existing tubes. Something
like a couple of RS number 773-6949 drivers giving 1 amp each?

Any advice much appreciated, and any recommended suppliers/brands.

Phil

--
Cheers
Dave.