Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

During the winter I had a lot of problems with my Potterton Suprima
going into lockout, which was resolved with a new PCB (thanks Geoff!).
Now it is only doing water heating, it has started locking out again,
but we don't notice now until we run out of hot water :-(

What happens now is that the red LED is flashing, so I reset it. It
starts the fan, then you hear the spark (sparks a number of time,
which the old PCB apparently didn't), but it does not ignite. It will
then try again, and usually succeeds on the second attempt.

So, any ideas on what the problem could be? Even if I have to end up
calling in an engineer, I'd like to be pre-armed with some info.

On a related subject, the boiler is in my new downstairs cloakroom on
the wall above the short soil stack. The stack has been boxed in, with
the boxing continued up to the ceiling, so that it also covers the
side of the boiler. As this interferes with the boiler cover and will
need to be cut away to allow service access, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

Thanks.


Regards,

Colin Swan
Nildram Operations

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

"Colin Swan" wrote in message
...
During the winter I had a lot of problems with my Potterton Suprima
going into lockout, which was resolved with a new PCB (thanks Geoff!).
Now it is only doing water heating, it has started locking out again,
but we don't notice now until we run out of hot water :-(

What happens now is that the red LED is flashing, so I reset it. It
starts the fan, then you hear the spark (sparks a number of time,
which the old PCB apparently didn't), but it does not ignite. It will
then try again, and usually succeeds on the second attempt.

I have a Suprima as well (had not seen the rude comments on the group when I
bought it!), and have found that the spark gap is quite critical. The gap is
also the flame detector device, and I suspect that if it is too wide the
board decides that there is no flame, and tries ign again. After three
unsuccessful tries it goes into lockout.

Have a look in the manual and set the spark gap at just over the minimum
specified - this cured a similar problem on mine.

I haven't got the manual to hand at present, but could dig it out if you do
not have yours available.

PS, beware of the ceramic insulator while adjusting electrode spacing.

I would be interested to know if this works for you, as I suspect some of
the lockout problem is down to gap spacing, among other factors no
doubt......

Charles F

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:03:39 GMT, (Colin Swan)
wrote:

, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

metoo Colin, I also have a Suprima which used to cut out during
winter. I realise you replaced the PCB, but maybe the refurb isn't
perfect? I've solved, for the time being, my problems by going over
all the main joints on the PCB with a soldering iron. Some of them
were too close to risk tho.

And I've also enclosed mine in a kitchin unit. Made sure to drill
plenty of holes above and below. Seems OK like this. Apart from that
cutting out of course! Good luck

regards

-Rob


Oh and for the programmers and pedants: /metoo

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

In message , Rob
writes
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:03:39 GMT, (Colin Swan)
wrote:

, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

metoo Colin, I also have a Suprima which used to cut out during
winter. I realise you replaced the PCB, but maybe the refurb isn't
perfect?

Not perfect ?

No Suprima (or other) boards go out of my factory if they are not
working properly.

This board has been working for some time now, and the problem seems to
be that either there is a problem with the pilot valve, delivery of
spark to the electrode or flame sensing - which can be due to a number
of factors

I've solved, for the time being, my problems by going over
all the main joints on the PCB with a soldering iron. Some of them
were too close to risk tho.

And I've also enclosed mine in a kitchin unit. Made sure to drill
plenty of holes above and below. Seems OK like this. Apart from that
cutting out of course! Good luck

regards

-Rob


Oh and for the programmers and pedants: /metoo

--
geoff

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

In message , Colin Swan
writes
During the winter I had a lot of problems with my Potterton Suprima
going into lockout, which was resolved with a new PCB (thanks Geoff!).
Now it is only doing water heating, it has started locking out again,
but we don't notice now until we run out of hot water :-(

What happens now is that the red LED is flashing, so I reset it. It
starts the fan, then you hear the spark (sparks a number of time,
which the old PCB apparently didn't), but it does not ignite. It will
then try again, and usually succeeds on the second attempt.

I hope it's not the pcb ...

Can you see it sparking in the combustion chamber?
It might be sparking somewhere else

Is the pilot igniting?
If so, there's a high value resistor which, if gone wouldn't allow the
pcb to sense the flame

If not, it sounds like the valve isn't working. Check that there are
(about 110V DC (can't remember offhand)) volts on the pilot valve
contacts. If there are and the valve's not opening, you have a faulty
valve, otherwise, I'll be expecting a phone call from you. If the pcb
does not sense the flame within a certain time (13-15 sparks) the boiler
goes into lockout.

If you still have problems, give me a ring (01923 229224)


So, any ideas on what the problem could be? Even if I have to end up
calling in an engineer, I'd like to be pre-armed with some info.

On a related subject, the boiler is in my new downstairs cloakroom on
the wall above the short soil stack. The stack has been boxed in, with
the boxing continued up to the ceiling, so that it also covers the
side of the boiler. As this interferes with the boiler cover and will
need to be cut away to allow service access, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

Thanks.


Regards,

Colin Swan
Nildram Operations

--
geoff

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

In article ,
Rob wrote:
Colin, I also have a Suprima which used to cut out during
winter. I realise you replaced the PCB, but maybe the refurb isn't
perfect?

Dive dive dive...

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Colin Swan
writes

SNIP

I hope it's not the pcb ...

Can you see it sparking in the combustion chamber?
It might be sparking somewhere else

Is the pilot igniting?
If so, there's a high value resistor which, if gone wouldn't allow the
pcb to sense the flame


I've just had two intermittent failure to sense flame problems on different
boilers:
One was simply a loose auxiliary earth wire on the burner which then
sometimes completed the circuit via the boiler metalwork and occasionally
didn't.
The other was on a housewarmer back boiler and the end of the
ignition/sense electrode lead had corroded off within the porcelain mount.
The spark could jump the gap but the sense current couldn't
In both cases of curse the pilot did light but the boiler didn't think it
had and so went into shutdown.

If not, it sounds like the valve isn't working. Check that there are
(about 110V DC (can't remember offhand)) volts on the pilot valve
contacts. If there are and the valve's not opening, you have a faulty
valve, otherwise, I'll be expecting a phone call from you. If the pcb
does not sense the flame within a certain time (13-15 sparks) the boiler
goes into lockout.

If you still have problems, give me a ring (01923 229224)


So, any ideas on what the problem could be? Even if I have to end up
calling in an engineer, I'd like to be pre-armed with some info.

On a related subject, the boiler is in my new downstairs cloakroom on
the wall above the short soil stack. The stack has been boxed in, with
the boxing continued up to the ceiling, so that it also covers the
side of the boiler. As this interferes with the boiler cover and will
need to be cut away to allow service access, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

Check your installation and service instructions which "might" say you
don't need purpose designed ventilation but if they dont then yes you most
definitely do and the sizing is remarkably large when you look into it for
older boilers (based on the boiler input rating)

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

I also have a Suprima which .....snip.........
..And I've also enclosed mine in a kitchin unit. Made sure to drill
plenty of holes above and below. Seems OK like this. Apart from that
cutting out of course! Good luck

Dunno about clearance, but ventilation wise............Building Regs
document J, Part 3 "Additional Provisions for gas burning appliances with
a rated input up to 70kW (net)", diagram 3.2 specifies one opening at top
& one at the bottom, each 1000mm2 per kW input (net) - that would be ~
12cm x 12cm for 50,000Btu rated balanced flue boiler.

Poxy Potterton boiler again...
 

"David H." wrote:

, I am thinking of building
a cupboard around the boiler. Are there any regs to do with this? Any
advice on how much space to leave around, ventilation, etc?

I also have a Suprima which .....snip.........
..And I've also enclosed mine in a kitchin unit. Made sure to drill
plenty of holes above and below. Seems OK like this. Apart from that
cutting out of course! Good luck

Dunno about clearance, but ventilation wise............Building Regs
document J, Part 3 "Additional Provisions for gas burning appliances with
a rated input up to 70kW (net)", diagram 3.2 specifies one opening at top
& one at the bottom, each 1000mm2 per kW input (net) - that would be ~
12cm x 12cm for 50,000Btu rated balanced flue boiler.

50kBtu/hr (net) = 14.7kW so you are correct about the vent sizes.

However please note that almost all modern boilers require no additional
ventilation. Many can be installed in kitchencupboard with a little as
5mm clearance. The part J regs apply in the absence of instructions to
the contrary. Also require 75mm clearance all round to combustible
surfaces.

Note the vent sizes would be halved for ventilation direct to outside
air.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html