As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202

whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

On 08/11/17 12:51, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

Also, did the radiator cycle a lot on its thermostat?

Many oil rads are incapable of losing the heat to the air at a rate that
matches the element rating - so they cycle on and off.

A **** B&Q rad would cycle at about 50%.

DeLonghi Ventos that I have can more or less maintain full output power
due to a superior fin and air path design.

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:51:39 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

That's what I wasn't sure about we had them on for about 2 hours then a student reported that his soldering station had just switched off and wouldn't come back on again. So know I know how far I can push it ;-)

We had another 7 1.5KW radiators delievered yesterday.




http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

cheers interesting.

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:57:11 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/11/17 12:51, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

Also, did the radiator cycle a lot on its thermostat?

That's what confused me, I assumed that if the LEDs were on with the thermostate set to maxium it'd it would use about 2KW, but I found that it was just 705W.

If I reduced the thermostat knob then the LR+EDs would go off and the consumption dropped to 0w as expected. After letting it cool and turning the thermostat back to full, the LEDs came back on and 1.7KW .



Many oil rads are incapable of losing the heat to the air at a rate that
matches the element rating - so they cycle on and off.

A **** B&Q rad would cycle at about 50%.

I guess this cycle is 1.7KW and 700W , I guess I'm used to cycles going fron zero to full.


DeLonghi Ventos that I have can more or less maintain full output power
due to a superior fin and air path design.

I have a DeLonghi at home maybe I'll test that too.

On 08/11/17 14:50, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:57:11 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/11/17 12:51, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

Also, did the radiator cycle a lot on its thermostat?

That's what confused me, I assumed that if the LEDs were on with the thermostate set to maxium it'd it would use about 2KW, but I found that it was just 705W.

If I reduced the thermostat knob then the LR+EDs would go off and the consumption dropped to 0w as expected. After letting it cool and turning the thermostat back to full, the LEDs came back on and 1.7KW .



Many oil rads are incapable of losing the heat to the air at a rate that
matches the element rating - so they cycle on and off.

A **** B&Q rad would cycle at about 50%.

I guess this cycle is 1.7KW and 700W , I guess I'm used to cycles going fron zero to full.


700W suggests you had the selector switch on half power (one element out
of two).

It would cycle on and off, not through half power...

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 16:18:01 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/11/17 14:50, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:57:11 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/11/17 12:51, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

Also, did the radiator cycle a lot on its thermostat?

That's what confused me, I assumed that if the LEDs were on with the thermostate set to maxium it'd it would use about 2KW, but I found that it was just 705W.

If I reduced the thermostat knob then the LR+EDs would go off and the consumption dropped to 0w as expected. After letting it cool and turning the thermostat back to full, the LEDs came back on and 1.7KW .



Many oil rads are incapable of losing the heat to the air at a rate that
matches the element rating - so they cycle on and off.

A **** B&Q rad would cycle at about 50%.

I guess this cycle is 1.7KW and 700W , I guess I'm used to cycles going fron zero to full.


700W suggests you had the selector switch on half power (one element out
of two).

Might suggest it but it's not the cae.

fort eh last 2 hours it;s been full on at 705 watts.
If I switch of teh I rocker it;s LED goes out the other II LED remains on and the power drops to 0W, a few mins later I hear a click the same LEDs on and off but the power goes to 1045W.
Switching the I back on power 1734W
Switch II off 702W

So you obviously have this wrong.




It would cycle on and off, not through half power...

but that's not the case it appears as though when fully on for a lenght of time II elements are switched out and the I left on, unless you manually switch it off.

Why do people start sentences with conjunctions?

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 04:25:30 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:


As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202

Is that a B32 MCB? If so, it will trip according to the "B" trip
curve, which means that instantanious trip needs at least 3 x rated
current.

At 220v, 5 x 1.6Kw heaters will draw at most about 36A, which will
essentially never trip a B32 MCB.

See the trip curves he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=MCB

On 08/11/2017 12:25, whisky-dave wrote:

As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202




1.164kW

--
Adam

On 08/11/2017 19:12, Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 04:25:30 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:


As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202

Is that a B32 MCB? If so, it will trip according to the "B" trip
curve, which means that instantanious trip needs at least 3 x rated
current.

At 220v, 5 x 1.6Kw heaters will draw at most about 36A, which will
essentially never trip a B32 MCB.

See the trip curves he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=MCB




Don't fall for the mixup with B, C and D types.

Let's assume that all 5 heaters are not switched on at exactly the same
time then B rating is irrelevant.

The B rating covers the inrush current not the stabilised load.

--
Adam

On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 08:54:54 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

fort eh last 2 hours it;s been full on at 705 watts.
If I switch of teh I rocker it;s LED goes out the other II LED remains on and the power drops to 0W, a few mins later I hear a click the same LEDs on and off but the power goes to 1045W.
Switching the I back on power 1734W
Switch II off 702W

In addition to what has been mentioned elsewhere, the link suggests
you have a 3 level (switchable) heater, where one element is ~700W and
the other 2000-700 = ~1300W.

So, you have choice of output powers of (nominally) 700, 1300 and
2000W.

The thermostat *should* function on all / any settings (so you should
measure 700, 1200 or 2000W or nothing).

The 'overtemp' switch should also work on all / any and that may or
may not cut in (open) before the thermostat does, depending on what
wattage you are using (input energy output load).

The 'on' indicator may or may not indicate it is heating or that it is
just on (depending where it is in the circuit).

Anything else would suggest that it's either wired incorrectly, or is
supposed to work like that (instructions)?

Cheers, T i m

On 08/11/17 22:00, pamela wrote:

36A is a lot. Wouldn't that melt the insulation on the wires?


No. The current carrying capacity of a cable is determined by (mostly)
how hot it gets.

A ring final circuit is designed to run forever at 32A with a max of 20A
in any part of the cabling.

This is based on PVC cable having a max operating temp of 70C.

In practise:

1) A few degrees over won't do much;

2) There's loads of padding built into the numbers;

3) If you overload a cable to say twice its rating and the MCB takes say
15-20 minutes to trip, the cable has not instantlo y heated up to
beyond 70C - it's gradually overheating and the Type B curve is designed
to reflect that.

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:57:11 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/11/17 12:51, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply
north of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

Also, did the radiator cycle a lot on its thermostat?

Many oil rads are incapable of losing the heat to the air at a rate that
matches the element rating - so they cycle on and off.

A **** B&Q rad would cycle at about 50%.

DeLonghi Ventos that I have can more or less maintain full output power
due to a superior fin and air path design.

Drivel.
They dissipate more heat in a cold room.(ie,are constantly on.)
As the room warms up, then they dissipate less.
The heating element is sized for the cold room

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:25:33 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202

The amount of time they remain "on" depends on the ambient temperature.
ie, in a cold room, they are on for longer the heat dissipates faster.

I like oil filled radiators. I have one in a room to help clothes dry its
less thatn a kw and seems very efficient if the thermostat is set sensibly.
Its an old Belling. Only issue is that the front plastic cover and know are
cracking presumably due to age heat and vaccuum cleaner abuse!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 08/11/17 12:51, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have
thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

(5 x 2kW / 240V) ~ 42A, a typical type B 32 amp breaker will supply north
of 45 amps for at least 2.7 hours, possibly for "ever".

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/d4/Curve-MCBTypeB.png

Also, did the radiator cycle a lot on its thermostat?

Many oil rads are incapable of losing the heat to the air at a rate that
matches the element rating - so they cycle on and off.

A **** B&Q rad would cycle at about 50%.

DeLonghi Ventos that I have can more or less maintain full output power
due to a superior fin and air path design.

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:16:30 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 08:54:54 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

fort eh last 2 hours it;s been full on at 705 watts.
If I switch of teh I rocker it;s LED goes out the other II LED remains on and the power drops to 0W, a few mins later I hear a click the same LEDs on and off but the power goes to 1045W.
Switching the I back on power 1734W
Switch II off 702W

In addition to what has been mentioned elsewhere, the link suggests
you have a 3 level (switchable) heater, where one element is ~700W and
the other 2000-700 = ~1300W.

Yes that seems reasonable.


So, you have choice of output powers of (nominally) 700, 1300 and
2000W.

Yep.
So if a heater is left on in the III position and the thermostate fully clockwise in it's maxium position what electrical power will the heater use and how much will it cost to leave it on from 9-5.

if I have 5 of these and two 1.5KW versions set to the same settings how much will this cost to run from 9-5 ?

That's the sort of things I'm curious about as at 9am the temerature was 14C
it is now 12 midday and teh temerature is 15C (so still below the recommened 16C as stated in the 1992 factories act section 7.


The thermostat *should* function on all / any settings (so you should
measure 700, 1200 or 2000W or nothing).

Yes I do pretty much get those results.
I aslo tested the impedence which seems to be 25 ohms to 65 ohms from memory as I can't find the paper I wrote it down on a few days ago.


The 'overtemp' switch should also work on all / any and that may or
may not cut in (open) before the thermostat does, depending on what
wattage you are using (input energy output load).

The 'on' indicator may or may not indicate it is heating or that it is
just on (depending where it is in the circuit).

Yes I know, so with both lights on what power should the heater be running at.


Anything else would suggest that it's either wired incorrectly, or is
supposed to work like that (instructions)?

Well the instuctions are on the site, but are not the same as the ones delivered but look the same with very similar specs and look pretty much the same.

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 03:00:08 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 08/11/2017 19:12, Caecilius wrote:
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 04:25:30 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:


As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202

Is that a B32 MCB? If so, it will trip according to the "B" trip
curve, which means that instantanious trip needs at least 3 x rated
current.

At 220v, 5 x 1.6Kw heaters will draw at most about 36A, which will
essentially never trip a B32 MCB.

See the trip curves he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=MCB




Don't fall for the mixup with B, C and D types.

Let's assume that all 5 heaters are not switched on at exactly the same
time then B rating is irrelevant.

Yes we thopught of that, left them all off for an hour to cool then there was 3 of us 5 rads and we had a countdown we all turned them on full at the same time, and it didn't trip, a couple of hours later it did but there was also a soldering station that;d beeen switched on but it was less than a few 100w .



The B rating covers the inrush current not the stabilised load.

--
Adam

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 08:07:32 UTC, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 12:25:33 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
As some might have read we've been supplied with a number of oil filled radaitors

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

So I unpacked them and installed them, one by one.

In an attempted to trip our 32 amp circuit braker I would have thought that 5 would have done it, but they didn't.

On switch on they started at about 1.6KW (using an old maplin power meter)
I left them fully on, that's the highest setting .

The lab voltage dropped from the 220V to about 202V so that accounts for it I guess.

But what realy suprised me was the power consumption of a radiator when it was full on, anyone care to guess what it was.

Voltage 202

The amount of time they remain "on" depends on the ambient temperature.
ie, in a cold room, they are on for longer the heat dissipates faster.

Define ON in this situation ?

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 08:30:15 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I like oil filled radiators. I have one in a room to help clothes dry its
less thatn a kw and seems very efficient if the thermostat is set sensibly.

Yesterday I went to the rescue of an elderly family friend who had
fallen over trying to turn off the three kilowatt fan heater that is
in his room as it got too hot when the CH kicked in? [1]

I think they are quite efficient in that all the energy they consume
is converted into heat, ignoring the energy required to illuminate the
On lamp etc. ;-)

A fan heater might mix the air better but you have the noise and the
energy used in the fan, some of which will also be converted to heat
etc.

We have several oil filled rads here and of the two extremes. eg, one
has a 700w element in a very small body (3 fins) and that tends to
cycle on it's upper limit stat whilst the other is a long low flat
panel, also of similar wattage that behaves / works very well in that
it only cycles on the thermostat.

Also, because it is actually dissipating all the energy into the room
efficiently, it doesn't reach the same high surface temperature as the
small one so doesn't tend to creak and click as much as it isn't
expanding and contracting as much ... and possibly a better design in
that way.

I was going to look more into the heat-pump jobbies as I believe it is
said they are even more efficient than a straight resistive heater?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Is it still typical for people to run their gas CH twice a day ...
especially if they are elderly / infirm? I suggested that running a
3kW fan heater in one room might be less efficient than running the
hose CH, considering they have thermostatic rad valves already?

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 04:07:20 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

In addition to what has been mentioned elsewhere, the link suggests
you have a 3 level (switchable) heater, where one element is ~700W and
the other 2000-700 = ~1300W.

Yes that seems reasonable.


So, you have choice of output powers of (nominally) 700, 1300 and
2000W.

Yep.
So if a heater is left on in the III position and the thermostate fully clockwise in it's maxium position what electrical power will the heater use and how much will it cost to leave it on from 9-5.

Assuming the thermostat never trips off and so the heater is on for
the entire time then (ignoring and load / wattage variations) then it
will be 17 - 09 (hrs) x 2 x (so 16) x whatever you pay per kWh for
your electricity (20p?). So that's £3.20 / rad per day (worst case)
but that soon becomes over 60 quid per weekday month (~£240 / q /
rad).

if I have 5 of these and two 1.5KW versions set to the same settings how much will this cost to run from 9-5 ?

Above x 5

That's the sort of things I'm curious about as at 9am the temerature was 14C
it is now 12 midday and teh temerature is 15C (so still below the recommened 16C as stated in the 1992 factories act section 7.

The heaters aren't powerful enough for that environment.


The thermostat *should* function on all / any settings (so you should
measure 700, 1200 or 2000W or nothing).

Yes I do pretty much get those results.
I aslo tested the impedence which seems to be 25 ohms to 65 ohms from memory as I can't find the paper I wrote it down on a few days ago.

Ok.


The 'overtemp' switch should also work on all / any and that may or
may not cut in (open) before the thermostat does, depending on what
wattage you are using (input energy output load).

The 'on' indicator may or may not indicate it is heating or that it is
just on (depending where it is in the circuit).

Yes I know, so with both lights on what power should the heater be running at.

2kW (if I understand it right and how I would expect it to work
logically).


Anything else would suggest that it's either wired incorrectly, or is
supposed to work like that (instructions)?

Well the instuctions are on the site, but are not the same as the ones delivered but look the same with very similar specs and look pretty much the same.

Ok.

Cheers, T i m

pamela presented the following explanation :
I thought it was 13A because that is the max rating for an plugged in
appliance.

So does that means I could safely run two 10A appliances from the
same wall outlet?

From a twin socket outlet, yes.

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 12:28:28 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 04:07:20 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

In addition to what has been mentioned elsewhere, the link suggests
you have a 3 level (switchable) heater, where one element is ~700W and
the other 2000-700 = ~1300W.

Yes that seems reasonable.


So, you have choice of output powers of (nominally) 700, 1300 and
2000W.

Yep.
So if a heater is left on in the III position and the thermostate fully clockwise in it's maxium position what electrical power will the heater use and how much will it cost to leave it on from 9-5.

Assuming the thermostat never trips off .

So what power will one radaitor consumer when set to maxium on and the thermostat doesnlt trigger ?



and so the heater is on for
the entire time then (ignoring and load / wattage variations) then it
will be 17 - 09 (hrs) x 2 x (so 16) x whatever you pay per kWh for
your electricity (20p?). So that's £3.20 / rad per day (worst case)
but that soon becomes over 60 quid per weekday month (~£240 / q /
rad).

Sorry I don't understand the calculation where does 17 come into it and where does 9 and the x 2 come into it.

Lets just keep it simple with ONE radiator that is 2KW.

That's the sort of things I'm curious about as at 9am the temerature was 14C
it is now 12 midday and teh temerature is 15C (so still below the recommened 16C as stated in the 1992 factories act section 7.

The heaters aren't powerful enough for that environment.

yes I know and it makes me wonder what sort of genious has decided to order them about 20 was the last count, still waiting for them to arrive.


The thermostat *should* function on all / any settings (so you should
measure 700, 1200 or 2000W or nothing).

Yes I do pretty much get those results.
I aslo tested the impedence which seems to be 25 ohms to 65 ohms from memory as I can't find the paper I wrote it down on a few days ago.

Ok.


The 'overtemp' switch should also work on all / any and that may or
may not cut in (open) before the thermostat does, depending on what
wattage you are using (input energy output load).

The 'on' indicator may or may not indicate it is heating or that it is
just on (depending where it is in the circuit).

Yes I know, so with both lights on what power should the heater be running at.

2kW (if I understand it right and how I would expect it to work
logically).

I too started thinking logically, but the facts showed something else.

So why was it showing 705W ?

turns naround to check actually it's currently 718W

This is my question.

So far I've tested 3 and they are all very similar so I doubt it's a faulty product.


Anything else would suggest that it's either wired incorrectly, or is
supposed to work like that (instructions)?

Well the instuctions are on the site, but are not the same as the ones delivered but look the same with very similar specs and look pretty much the same.

Ok.

Cheers, T i m

whisky-dave wrote:

where does 17 come into it and where does 9 and the x 2 come into it.

5pm = 17:00, 9am = 9, 2kW heater

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 22:02:02 +0000, pamela wrote:

On 18:02 8 Nov 2017, Scott wrote:

Why do people start sentences with conjunctions?

It's alright to do so......


Starting a sentence with "So" is a totally unnecessary and annoying
affectation. If you need a source of interview material overburdened by
guests who respond with this affectation, just watch any of the "Sky at
Night" programmes made during the past decade. You can virtually
guarantee that *every* 'expert's' response to a question will commence
with the word "So,". It's as if all the experts that appear on the
programme are afflicted with a very specific (and rather boring) form of
"Tourettes".


--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 06:31:00 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip bits Andy has since answered



That's the sort of things I'm curious about as at 9am the temerature was 14C
it is now 12 midday and teh temerature is 15C (so still below the recommened 16C as stated in the 1992 factories act section 7.

The heaters aren't powerful enough for that environment.

yes I know and it makes me wonder what sort of genious has decided to order them about 20 was the last count, still waiting for them to arrive.

Well, their suitability could be down to the side effects of the
alternatives. Like, if you were to use IR / radiant heaters they could
be considered a fire risk and an industrial blower / fan heater could
be too noisy. Decent central heating would be best but obviously not
on the hurry up..

snip

2kW (if I understand it right and how I would expect it to work
logically).

I too started thinking logically, but the facts showed something else.

So why was it showing 705W ?

turns naround to check actually it's currently 718W

This is my question.

So are you asking why it's currently showing ~700 W or why it's
fluctuating around 700W

So far I've tested 3 and they are all very similar so I doubt it's a faulty product.

If it's the latter than the measured power will be a function of the
supply voltage (that you have already told us fluctuates) and the
resistance will change with temperature that may also account for some
variation.

Cheers, T i m

Johnny B Good wrote:

Starting a sentence with "So" is a totally unnecessary and annoying
affectation.
So what?

See, it does change the meaning sometimes ...

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 14:36:48 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

where does 17 come into it and where does 9 and the x 2 come into it.

5pm = 17:00, 9am = 9, 2kW heater

A 2kw heater that is full on III both LEDs lit and currently, checks again 721W
(215V @ 3.34A)

This is what I found confusing.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
So what power will one radaitor consumer when set to maxium on and the
thermostat doesnlt trigger ?

What does it say on the unit?

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 14:54:23 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 06:31:00 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip bits Andy has since answered



That's the sort of things I'm curious about as at 9am the temerature was 14C
it is now 12 midday and teh temerature is 15C (so still below the recommened 16C as stated in the 1992 factories act section 7.

The heaters aren't powerful enough for that environment.

yes I know and it makes me wonder what sort of genious has decided to order them about 20 was the last count, still waiting for them to arrive.

Well, their suitability could be down to the side effects of the
alternatives. Like, if you were to use IR / radiant heaters they could
be considered a fire risk and an industrial blower / fan heater could
be too noisy. Decent central heating would be best but obviously not
on the hurry up..

Yes well the first idea was 40 convector heaters were ordered but we had to inform those that ordered them that the college had banned them for use in labs and offices.



This is my question.

So are you asking why it's currently showing ~700 W or why it's
fluctuating around 700W

Yes why is a 2KW heater only drawing 700W when fully on, if it was up to temperatury I'd expect it to disconneced with a bimetalic strip or something more advanced and would be 0W not 700W.


So far I've tested 3 and they are all very similar so I doubt it's a faulty product.

If it's the latter than the measured power will be a function of the
supply voltage (that you have already told us fluctuates) and the
resistance will change with temperature that may also account for some
variation.

I can understand some variation due to voltage fluctuation by 10V but I doubt that is causing 700W.



Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 14:47:34 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

snip

Starting a sentence with "So" is a totally unnecessary and annoying
affectation. If you need a source of interview material overburdened by
guests who respond with this affectation, just watch any of the "Sky at
Night" programmes made during the past decade. You can virtually
guarantee that *every* 'expert's' response to a question will commence
with the word "So,". It's as if all the experts that appear on the
programme are afflicted with a very specific (and rather boring) form of
"Tourettes".

The other one that seems prominent these days is the mispronunciation
of the letter 'H', even on TV adverts advertising the like of HP, or
describing a TV program as being in 'haitchD'. ;-(

It's as if people think that "aitch" is some form of slang / slack
pronunciation and so sounding the 'h' thinking that is better /
correct?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11642588

http://www.whichenglish.com/Better-E...-or-aitch.html


Cheers, T i m

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:08:00 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
So what power will one radaitor consumer when set to maxium on and the
thermostat doesnlt trigger ?

What does it say on the unit?

220-240V 50Hz 2000W

info also availible at

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel0...ack/dp/HG00575

whisky-dave wrote:

Yes well the first idea was 40 convector heaters were ordered but we
had to inform those that ordered them that the college had banned
them for use in labs and offices.

Has someone stolen the college's boiler?

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 07:12:04 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

So are you asking why it's currently showing ~700 W or why it's
fluctuating around 700W

Yes why is a 2KW heater only drawing 700W when fully on, if it was up to temperatury I'd expect it to disconneced with a bimetalic strip or something more advanced and would be 0W not 700W.

As would I ... so it sounds like the 700W element is in all the time?

Cheers, T i m

Am 09.11.2017 um 16:12 schrieb whisky-dave:


Yes why is a 2KW heater only drawing 700W when fully on, if it was up to temperatury I'd expect it to disconneced with a bimetalic strip or something more advanced and would be 0W not 700W.

I would expect that too.

The radiator has 2 switches. Call them A and B. Eeach switch has two
positions. Call them 'on' and 'off'.

So 4 combinations:

C1: SW A 'off' SW B 'off'
C2: SW A 'off' SW B 'on'
C3: SW A 'on' SW B 'off'
C$: SW A 'on' SW B 'on'

What are the readings of your 'old maplin power meter' for each of the 4
combinations?

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 15:09:28 +0000, pamela wrote:

On 14:47 9 Nov 2017, Johnny B Good wrote:

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 22:02:02 +0000, pamela wrote:

On 18:02 8 Nov 2017, Scott wrote:

Why do people start sentences with conjunctions?

It's alright to do so......


Starting a sentence with "So" is a totally unnecessary and annoying
affectation. If you need a source of interview material overburdened by
guests who respond with this affectation, just watch any of the "Sky at
Night" programmes made during the past decade. You can virtually
guarantee that *every* 'expert's' response to a question will commence
with the word "So,". It's as if all the experts that appear on the
programme are afflicted with a very specific (and rather boring) form
of "Tourettes".

The use of "so" when replying to an interviewer's questions seems
contrived. Like a sort of attempted segue. It seems so widespread that
I wonder if it's a technique they acquire in interview training or from
some guide?

Tragically enough, that's the exact opposite of what such an
interviewing technique coaching guide should propose.


However, I wouldn't call "so" a conjunction.

It so is! For example: "We did it that way so we could get the most
accurate results."

--
Johnny B Good

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:16:51 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

Yes well the first idea was 40 convector heaters were ordered but we
had to inform those that ordered them that the college had banned
them for use in labs and offices.

Has someone stolen the college's boiler?

It was knocked down and the area is now the New £50M graduate centre.

http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/198330.html

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:18:45 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 07:12:04 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

So are you asking why it's currently showing ~700 W or why it's
fluctuating around 700W

Yes why is a 2KW heater only drawing 700W when fully on, if it was up to temperatury I'd expect it to disconneced with a bimetalic strip or something more advanced and would be 0W not 700W.

As would I ... so it sounds like the 700W element is in all the time?

Cheers, T i m

Except if you turn the knob thermostate down (anti-clockwise)then it switches off to 0W and the LEDs go out.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 14:54:48 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Johnny B Good wrote:

Starting a sentence with "So" is a totally unnecessary and annoying
affectation.
So what?

See, it does change the meaning sometimes ...

That may be the only example of valid usage. There may be other valid
usage cases but I can't think of any right now so I'll leave it to others
to provide additional examples if they care enough to make the effort.

--
Johnny B Good

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:01:00 UTC, Matthias Czech wrote:
Am 09.11.2017 um 16:12 schrieb whisky-dave:


Yes why is a 2KW heater only drawing 700W when fully on, if it was up to temperatury I'd expect it to disconneced with a bimetalic strip or something more advanced and would be 0W not 700W.

I would expect that too.

The radiator has 2 switches. Call them A and B. Eeach switch has two
positions. Call them 'on' and 'off'.

So 4 combinations:

C1: SW A 'off' SW B 'off' 0
C2: SW A 'off' SW B 'on' 697W
C3: SW A 'on' SW B 'off' 1040W
C$: SW A 'on' SW B 'on' 1705W


Voltage 211, it does drop more than 1 volt with just one heater switching off and on. (with 5 on the same circuit we get down to 202V)

with thermostate at highest i.e always on. LEDs always on both switches.
When the thermostate is manually turned down from maxium I hear a click and the meter drops tom 0W as expected.

What I didn;t expect was that leaving the heater on for a couple of hours at full also resulted in a click and the power drops to ~700W rather than 0w
like I'd expect of a cut out. At this 700 both LEDs remain on, indicating to me that 1700W would be disapated rather than the 700W measured.



What are the readings of your 'old maplin power meter' for each of the 4
combinations?