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Default battery tools are crap

It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill
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Default battery tools are crap

Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Well, sursprising as it may seem I'm in agreement to some extent.
However *some* cordless tools are good and useful. The ones I use
almost daily are my 10.8 volt Li cordless drill and driver. Handy,
light, much faster than a manual screwdriver and work all around our 9
acres, on the boat, etc. etc.

--
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Default battery tools are crap

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:31:19 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill




Horses for courses.

I use a battery drill for winding the legs on my caravan, for example.

I also found a battery drill far easier than a mains drill for fixing the
very large tin roof on the very large shed. No trailing cables to drag
around.

A battery impact driver is also a tool of choice because you aren't tied
down to a cable.

Anything requiring serious grunt, such as sawing, SDS drilling and the
like is much better using mains. Angle grinders!

Anyway, the local builders use a mix of mains and battery tools depending
on use case.

I think you are trying too hard in your last paragraph; a lot of DIYers
here use battery tools and quite a few have power tools as well, and have
used mains power tools for yeah these many years.

Cheers


Dave R

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Default battery tools are crap

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!


Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.


Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!


I have a tool battery charger that runs off 12v - from the car.

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.


And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.


Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.


I started with amisn ones - there was no other choice, but the convenience
of batterry tools is supreme.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
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Default battery tools are crap

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:31:19 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill


Just reminded me that our electrician used battery tools.

Apart from the ease of screwing in sockets etc. with a small driver, there
is the little issue of what you do when the power is off :-)

Cheers


Dave R



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Default battery tools are crap

On 13 Sep 2017 14:08:30 GMT, David wrote:

snip

Anything requiring serious grunt, such as sawing, SDS drilling and the
like is much better using mains.


snip

Daughter bought a Lidl 18V Li-Ion drill, jigsaw and circular saw and
I'd have to say they are all pretty good.

The one that surprised me was the circular saw and I've borrowed it
quite a few times now and for cutting some fairly serious wood (like
decking).

We were using the jigsaw yesterday and it's as 'capable as any mains
powered saw I've used.

Because she got the 3 devices at the same time and so also got 3
chargers and batteries, it's rare that you would run out of battery on
the grounds you wouldn't typically (in many d-i-y roles) be using all
3 tools at the same time.

I used the circular saw to slice up an old shed into manageable lumps
(retaining most of the long lengths of good batten) and whilst it was
only (mostly) going though matchwood, I think we did it all on just
one battery.

We were working in a back ally so mains wasn't an easy option.

But then I've got a couple and seen a good few more new looking
battery tools that weren't worth a light.

Horses for courses etc. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I have an old cheap / market 12V Nicad powered drill that was
'big'. It only had a smallish motor that span fast though a reasonable
gearbox but it felt pretty unstoppable in use (and abuse). When the
batteries died I stripped one and ran a 3m HD 12V cable out the back
and with a pair of crocodile clips and so can run it from any 12V
source / battery.

So, whilst not *as* portable as it once was, it can still be used away
from mains and for a pretty long time. ;-)
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Default battery tools are crap

On 13/09/2017 15:19, David wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:31:19 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill


Just reminded me that our electrician used battery tools.

Apart from the ease of screwing in sockets etc. with a small driver, there
is the little issue of what you do when the power is off :-)

Cheers


Dave R


+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new, but

now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.
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Default battery tools are crap

On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new, but

now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.


I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the meantime,
I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones (mostly NiCd it has
to be said), where the tool still works but the battery is knackered.
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GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new,
but

now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.


I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the meantime,
I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones (mostly NiCd it
has to be said), where the tool still works but the battery is
knackered.


Still got the Black and Decker mains drill I got with petrol coupons 38
years ago. It works fine.
The Bosh cordless one that cost £160 nine years is almost useless now and
has not been used much.


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Default battery tools are crap

While there is plenty of truth in some aspects of this, as a general
statement is not really supportable IMHO.

A more nuanced answer might be that many battery tools are crap, however
some are excellent, but don't ignore mains one for certain classes of
tool or for certain applications.

On 13/09/2017 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:

It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.


Yup, price you can't argue with - mains wins every time.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!


I have never really found that a problem with decent batteries, and
having enough of them.

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You


That does not need to be true. Many have more than adequate power, but
you need be a bit selective as to what you are doing and where you are
doing it.

pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.


Many tools don't require more than a few hundred W - even in mains form.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.


Again it depends on the tool. I have used battery tools that perform as
well or better than mains, as well as some that are vastly inferior.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.


In my case, convenience, and the ability to do things that you can't do
with mains tools.

Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.


An electric drill is perhaps a poor example - I doubt I have used my
conventional mains drills more than a couple of times in the last
decade. They offer no more useful power than my various cordless tools
while being significant more cumbersome, have vastly inferior speed
controls and in some cases lack reverse. I keep them however since there
may be times where one wants to do that would be a task well suited to
the mains tool. When the cordless drill won't hack it, its usually time
to reach for the SDS (corded in my case).


--
Cheers,

John.

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Default battery tools are crap

On 13/09/2017 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill


You need to buy some decent kit like Makita.


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The Medway Handyman
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Default battery tools are crap

On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 16:40:18 UTC+1, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new,
but
now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.


I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the meantime,
I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones (mostly NiCd it
has to be said), where the tool still works but the battery is
knackered.


Still got the Black and Decker mains drill I got with petrol coupons 38
years ago. It works fine.
The Bosh cordless one that cost £160 nine years is almost useless now and
has not been used much.


Is it the drill or the batteries that are useless, they are two differnt things ?
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In article ,

[Snip]

An electric drill is perhaps a poor example - I doubt I have used my
conventional mains drills more than a couple of times in the last
decade.


Drilling holes in galvanised steel trunking is easier with a mains drill



They offer no more useful power than my various cordless tools
while being significant more cumbersome, have vastly inferior speed
controls and in some cases lack reverse. I keep them however since there
may be times where one wants to do that would be a task well suited to
the mains tool. When the cordless drill won't hack it, its usually time
to reach for the SDS (corded in my case).



--


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
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On 13/09/2017 16:52, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 16:40:18 UTC+1, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new,
but
now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.

I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the meantime,
I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones (mostly NiCd it
has to be said), where the tool still works but the battery is
knackered.


Still got the Black and Decker mains drill I got with petrol coupons 38
years ago. It works fine.
The Bosh cordless one that cost £160 nine years is almost useless now and
has not been used much.


Is it the drill or the batteries that are useless, they are two differnt things ?


Indeed. The first really good cordless drill I bought in 2003 (18V
Makita Combi with three NiMh 2.6Ah batts) worked flawlessly until about
2011, where the batts started to die.

I bought it a set of three replacement batteries in 2012, and those have
recently got to their end of life. Not quite as good a life span as the
original set, although the usage pattern is different, and I also now
use the same set on an impact driver - so they get more use than the
first set.

This time I pondered for while whether to replace them again, or whether
to switch to Li-Ion. In the end I decided that a twin pack of combi
drill and ID plus a pair of 5Ah Li-ion batts and charger could be had
for not much more than the price of the old style batts alone, it made
sense to switch to the new ones.

I also decided to standardise on that format for 18V stuff going
forward, and so sold the 14.4V DeWalt kit I had (angle drill and
circular saw), and bought body only Makita replacements.



--
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John.

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Well I only have a mains drill of quite a vintage. I guess battery
screwdrivers can save a lot of blisters, but for those awkward screws, never
seem to fit in the gap you need them to. I personally think battery tools
have their place. How about a battery angle grinder for that wheel clamp, or
a battery powered chainsaw to annoy the neighbours with?



I suppose if you were in a remote place they can be OK. Its horses for
courses. I think we are in the infancy of battery power still. lithium may
be better than the previous tech, but not quite good enough yet. Brian

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"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I don't
do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a revelation
they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw would
have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You pay
more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the bigger
battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know. Ignorance
of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking about it, I
bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used an electric
drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new toy is.

Bill





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On 13/09/2017 14:52, Chris Green wrote:

Well, sursprising as it may seem I'm in agreement to some extent.
However *some* cordless tools are good and useful. The ones I use
almost daily are my 10.8 volt Li cordless drill and driver. Handy,
light, much faster than a manual screwdriver and work all around our 9
acres, on the boat, etc. etc.


Oh yeas, sorry, I forgot about screwdrivers. I agree totally. I was
really focussed on big-ass tools.

Bill
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On 13/09/2017 16:39, John Rumm wrote:
While there is plenty of truth in some aspects of this, as a general
statement is not really supportable IMHO.

A more nuanced answer might be that many battery tools are crap, however
some are excellent, but don't ignore mains one for certain classes of
tool or for certain applications.


Just as an example, we have a holiday home and I wanted a few cheap
tools there for occasional use. I went for an £11 mains drill.

It will just work, without having to be charged up first. And you can't
get anything battery powered for that price.

It's amazingly good, considering the price.
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In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.


We are for once in total agreement. I'm fortunate enough to have most of
my power tools in both mains and cordless. Cordless being very convenient
for the odd small job. Or for something where a cord can get in the way -
like say a Dremel sized drill.

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On 13/09/2017 15:08, David wrote:

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.


I think you are trying too hard in your last paragraph;


You sometimes have to be controversial to get the readers' interest and
make them respond. It was a bit tongue in cheek. I model myself on Rod
Liddle!

Bill
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On 13/09/2017 16:11, GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new, but

now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.


I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the meantime,
I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones (mostly NiCd it has
to be said), where the tool still works but the battery is knackered.


Anyone want a perfectly good Bosch battery recip saw? Works fine but no
battery....

Bill


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Default battery tools are crap

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 5:43:10 PM UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 13/09/2017 14:52, Chris Green wrote:

Well, sursprising as it may seem I'm in agreement to some extent.
However *some* cordless tools are good and useful. The ones I use
almost daily are my 10.8 volt Li cordless drill and driver. Handy,
light, much faster than a manual screwdriver and work all around our 9
acres, on the boat, etc. etc.


Oh yeas, sorry, I forgot about screwdrivers. I agree totally. I was
really focussed on big-ass tools.



The big-ass Bosch sds drills are awesome!
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On 13/09/2017 16:39, John Rumm wrote:

I have never really found that a problem with decent batteries, and
having enough of them.


I used to have problems on flats complexes fixing aerials onto masonry
(8 holes per aerial) when I was working my way along a row of small
blocks. Used to recharge from the van. Sort of OK.

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You


That does not need to be true. Many have more than adequate power, but
you need be a bit selective as to what you are doing and where you are
doing it.


Yes but you can't be selective about the work you have to do. And even
fairly light jobs (say drilling 10mm holes in wood) is quicker with a
mains drill.

I agree that battery is OK for really light jobs (polishing a little
dog's nails in a poodle parlour, that sort of thing).


pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.


Many tools don't require more than a few hundred W - even in mains form.


Well, it's always good to have power in reserve, and anyway I'm really
talking more about bigger tools.I mean, frinstance I have a little
dremel and it slows down if you work it hard. It would be better if it
didn't.

Bill
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On 13/09/2017 17:14, charles wrote:
In article ,

[Snip]

An electric drill is perhaps a poor example - I doubt I have used my
conventional mains drills more than a couple of times in the last
decade.


Drilling holes in galvanised steel trunking is easier with a mains drill


I was quite happy with my pair of Bosch battery SDS drills until I
bought the same tool but mains powered. Jeez what a difference! Thrice
the watts of course.

Bill
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On 13/09/2017 16:49, TMH wrote:

You need to buy some decent kit like Makita.



I've just bought a mains Makita recip saw and I think it's great. Really
good design, especially blade changing.

Bill
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On 13/09/17 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill


I can counter everything you've just said

10.8V Blue Bosch driver, drill and impact driver are small, light and
surprisingly powerful for their size and I've used mine for years.

36V Bosch garden tools are equal in calibre to mains tools of a similar
size - hedge cutter, lawn mower and strimmer.

Now these do really require you have 2 batteries of the same size (there
are 2-3 different sizes IIRC, big for mower and small or medium for hand
held tools. With 2 batteries, the charging process *nearly* keeps up and
I can do my whole garden on 2 charges, sometimes 3 if the grass is long.

As you can put a small battery in a big tool and vice versa, I do
sometimes finish the hedge with a mower battery.

The convenience, lightness compared to petrol and lack of a damn cable
makes it totally worth while.

Now a contractor doing a large tough hedge would be better off with a
heavy petrol strimmer. But for my hawthorn and most fluffy hedges the
36V works extremely well.



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On 13/09/17 16:49, TMH wrote:

You need to buy some decent kit like Makita.


I have never seen the owner of battery Makita kit moan


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whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 16:40:18 UTC+1, Mr Pounder Esquire
wrote:
GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new,
but
now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.

I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the
meantime, I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones
(mostly NiCd it has to be said), where the tool still works but the
battery is knackered.


Still got the Black and Decker mains drill I got with petrol coupons
38 years ago. It works fine.
The Bosh cordless one that cost £160 nine years is almost useless
now and has not been used much.


Is it the drill or the batteries that are useless, they are two
differnt things ?


Batteries, both of them.


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On 13/09/2017 16:39, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new,
but
now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.


I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the meantime,
I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones (mostly NiCd it
has to be said), where the tool still works but the battery is
knackered.


Still got the Black and Decker mains drill I got with petrol coupons 38
years ago. It works fine.
The Bosh cordless one that cost £160 nine years is almost useless now and
has not been used much.



I regularly use my battery powered drill whereas my mains powered drill
gets little use. Today I drilled two holes in soft brick with the
battery drill in less time than it will have taken me to get the mains
extension cord out.

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On 13/09/2017 16:49, TMH wrote:
On 13/09/2017 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than
a replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when
you don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains
for the charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the
mains equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a
flat battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess.
Thinking about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have
never used an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited
their new toy is.

Bill


You need to buy some decent kit like Makita.



Just have:-(

Over £1000 quids worth.

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On 13/09/2017 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.


Point noted about the fact you meant the bigger tools so there is no
need to mention a 110V impact driver:-).

I now have a very nice and very new 36V Makita SDS and a very nice and
very new 2kg 110V DeWalt SDS.

If I am going to be on site for a while then the 110V drill is my first
choice.

I also chose the 110V angle grinder and the 110V circular saw but I
chose the 18V jigsaw (I can use one of the firms 110V ones if needed for
bigger jobs). My main use for the jigsaw is cutting the case on a CU
swap and power is usually off when I do that.


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On 13/09/2017 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill


Cordless is so much easier for a small job, saving getting the extension
lead out and running it to where you need it - prehaps supporting it
half-way up a ladder and then you get up the ladder and find that the
socket feeding the reel is turned off!

Mains, as you say, has the grunt to get the job done though.

I mainly have mains, but with a few cordless (particularly a drill) for
convenience - and you can't beat a cordless strimmer for a quick tidy-up
on a visit to a family grave.

SteveW
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On 13/09/2017 17:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well I only have a mains drill of quite a vintage. I guess battery
screwdrivers can save a lot of blisters, but for those awkward screws, never
seem to fit in the gap you need them to. I personally think battery tools
have their place. How about a battery angle grinder for that wheel clamp, or
a battery powered chainsaw to annoy the neighbours with?


I happened to drive past a guy removing a wheel-clamp with a petrol
powered grinder last night

SteveW
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alan_m wrote:
On 13/09/2017 16:39, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
GB wrote:
On 13/09/2017 15:48, Broadback wrote:

+1 Bill. I purchased a Dyson battery vacuum, it was fine when new,
but
now does not run for l;long and it needs recharging.

I'm still using a mains drill I bought 40 years ago. In the
meantime, I've had to throw away loads of battery powered ones
(mostly NiCd it has to be said), where the tool still works but the
battery is knackered.


Still got the Black and Decker mains drill I got with petrol coupons
38 years ago. It works fine.
The Bosh cordless one that cost £160 nine years is almost useless
now and has not been used much.



I regularly use my battery powered drill whereas my mains powered
drill gets little use. Today I drilled two holes in soft brick with
the battery drill in less time than it will have taken me to get the
mains extension cord out.


Indeed.
I used my cordless drill as a contractor and mainly for using it as a screw
driver, it was never too very wonderful even as a screwdriver.
The one before that cost about £70 in 1999. Looking back (and I can) I must
have used it on 3000 screws and it never let me down. I gave it away to a
pillock who could not work out to use it ......ffs.
I rather think that I was unlucky with the Bosh.
Got to admit that in 1999 I used this huge very heavy Bosh cordless drill.
Cost £400 apparently. I was informed that if I lost it I would be beaten up.
It was Magnificent! It had these lights that came on when it was being used.
I felt like Arnold Schwarzenegger when I used it. Me and him look very
similar.



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On 13/09/2017 15:08, David wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 14:31:19 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!

Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less than a
replacement battery. For instance a battery for my reciprocating saw
would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.

Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when you
don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains for the
charger out to where your working ? Give over!

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You
pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.

And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so much
easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The battery
equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due to a flat
battery.

Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess. Thinking
about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have never used
an electric drill before, so they won't realise how limited their new
toy is.

Bill




Horses for courses.

I use a battery drill for winding the legs on my caravan, for example.

I also found a battery drill far easier than a mains drill for fixing the
very large tin roof on the very large shed. No trailing cables to drag
around.

A battery impact driver is also a tool of choice because you aren't tied
down to a cable.

Anything requiring serious grunt, such as sawing, SDS drilling and the
like is much better using mains. Angle grinders!

Anyway, the local builders use a mix of mains and battery tools depending
on use case.

I think you are trying too hard in your last paragraph; a lot of DIYers
here use battery tools and quite a few have power tools as well, and have
used mains power tools for yeah these many years.

Cheers


Dave R


+1. When cordless drills first came out they were only any good for
wood, plastic, or thin alloy. Oh how times have changed. Obviously they
are not going to compete with mains 750 watt tools for continuous work.
But the safety and convenience of professional cordless kit for a lot of
site work more than compensates for the greater cost.
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On 13/09/2017 19:25, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

I felt like Arnold Schwarzenegger when I used it. Me and him look very
similar.


What, old, grizzled, and past it? ;-)


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On 13/09/2017 18:00, Bill Wright wrote:
On 13/09/2017 17:14, charles wrote:
In article ,

[Snip]

An electric drill is perhaps a poor example - I doubt I have used my
conventional mains drills more than a couple of times in the last
decade.


Drilling holes in galvanised steel trunking is easier with a mains drill


I was quite happy with my pair of Bosch battery SDS drills until I
bought the same tool but mains powered. Jeez what a difference! Thrice
the watts of course.


SDS certainly used to be case where the mains one was twice the power,
and it made a noticeable difference.

These days you can get the 36V cordless ones (which use two 18V batts)
and they will do 1200 RPM and hit with 2.5 Joules, which is pretty much
on par for a basic 2kg mains SDS.

e.g.

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...huck-body-only




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Bill Wright wrote:

I've just bought a mains Makita recip saw and I think it's great. Really
good design, especially blade changing.


I bought an 18V makita recip saw (to use with the batteries I already
have) and also think it's great.

If I'd only used it for the intended job of removing window frames I'd
have been happy, but it's chopped a couple of small trees and some oak
sleepers too.
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On 13/09/2017 17:58, Bill Wright wrote:
On 13/09/2017 16:39, John Rumm wrote:

I have never really found that a problem with decent batteries, and
having enough of them.


I used to have problems on flats complexes fixing aerials onto masonry
(8 holes per aerial) when I was working my way along a row of small
blocks. Used to recharge from the van. Sort of OK.


The fact that you did not go to the faff of taking a mains drill and
extension lead up there, suggests that the overall experience with the
cordless was still preferable though?

Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered. You


That does not need to be true. Many have more than adequate power, but
you need be a bit selective as to what you are doing and where you are
doing it.


Yes but you can't be selective about the work you have to do. And even
fairly light jobs (say drilling 10mm holes in wood) is quicker with a
mains drill.


Rotation speed on a conventional mains drill might be higher (although
not if its a SDS), but the torque available on the cordless is often
higher...

Look at something like:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/bosch-g...d-impact-drill

18Nm of torque and 2800 rpm, which is fairly decent.

Compare with say:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...places-bhp458z

44Nm at 2000 rpm in high gear, and a wrist twisting 88Nm in low speed
(which explains the ridiculously long side handle!)

I agree that battery is OK for really light jobs (polishing a little
dog's nails in a poodle parlour, that sort of thing).


Depends on what you call "light jobs" really. I use my 18V cordless as
the go to tool for most drilling operations. Perhaps my mains drills are
poor compared to some, but I find my twin speed bosch (green) mains
hammer drill was no better than the 18V makita on masonry. Both are
outclassed by the SDS for hard stuff though. Perhaps if I were doing
something repetitive like multiple 32mm spade bit holes the mains drill
would be worth getting out.

I would call jobs like sticking a 110mm dry diamond core through 11" of
masonry, or chasing out 30m of wall for conduit or pipes "heavy work",
and there I agree that the cordless stuff would not be my first choice.

I have some 10.8V kit[1] for light work, and that's great for working in
cabinets etc, general screw driving etc. However even that would do a
few dozen 7mm holes in brick for rawlplugs without any great difficulty.
(its also so small and light that I can take a bag with drill and ID,
spare batts, charger, and a selection of fixings out to a job site for
the same weight and size as a traditional mains drill)

[1]
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...AndSpacing.jpg

Very light and manoeuvrable.

pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even the
bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the mains
equivalents are usually 1kW+.


Many tools don't require more than a few hundred W - even in mains form.


Well, it's always good to have power in reserve, and anyway I'm really
talking more about bigger tools.I mean, frinstance I have a little
dremel and it slows down if you work it hard. It would be better if it
didn't.


Yup sure for stuff that is traditionally 500W plus in mains form, its
going to be better. This is something that the cordless tool makers are
looking to change though... Makita with their 36V gear, dewalt with
their flexvolt stuff etc.

The other class of mains tool that is hard to beat is for things that
you can speed very long run times on (like sanders, routers etc)


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John Rumm wrote:
On 13/09/2017 19:25, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

I felt like Arnold Schwarzenegger when I used it. Me and him look
very similar.


What, old, grizzled, and past it? ;-)


This was in 1999.
These days I am still a man of steel.




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In article , TMH
writes
On 13/09/2017 14:31, Bill Wright wrote:
It sounds so attractive! No power cord! Use it where there's no mains!
But battery tools are rubbish compared to 110V or mains ones. Now I
don't do site work any more I can buy mains powered tools, and what a
revelation they are!
Firstly there's the fact that a mains powered tool can cost less
than a replacement battery. For instance a battery for my
reciprocating saw would have been £120. A new mains powered saw was £110.
Then there's the fact that battery tools run out of power just when
you don't want them to. So have two or three batteries and run mains
for the charger out to where your working ? Give over!
Then there's the fact that battery tools are always underpowered.
You pay more than twice the price for less than half the power. Even
the bigger battery tools tend to be rated at 300 to 450W, whereas the
mains equivalents are usually 1kW+.
And what a difference having adequate power makes! The job is so
much easier. Mains powered tools just glide through the work. The
battery equivalent would be slowing chugging along, then stopping due
to a flat battery.
Why people buy battery tools to use at home I really don't know.
Ignorance of the customer plus the vendor's sales hype I guess.
Thinking about it, I bet a lot of people who buy a battery drill have
never used an electric drill before, so they won't realise how
limited their new toy is.
Bill


You need to buy some decent kit like Makita.


+1
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